1/23 Logan AMPS 320, +7 269, PMPS 328

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Kelly & Logan

Kelly & Logan

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Yesterday:
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Jill & Alex said:
Cassandra and Sasha said:
Kelly & Logan said:
She said to not give him any tonight and go to 5mg bid tomorrow as planned. She thinks it's causing some resistance even though his BG has come down.
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I just don't understand this. Insulin resistance is a known side effect for Pred at pretty much any dose. If it is needed, though, and it truly sounds like in Logan's case that it is, then you increase the insulin to work around it.

Please keep checking the ketones as often as you can. The fact that they have gone back up is concerning, especially with the lack of interest in food again.

I'm sorry I sound like such a worry wort. It's just that there have been cats here that have gone from small ketones to full blown DKA in a matter of hours, and such high ketone readings make me nervous in a kitty that is not 100% to begin with.

I'm glad you raised the dose. Continuing to send many healing vines.
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(((kelly))) you must be exhausted from worry alone.
i have to echo cassandra's comments. when kitties go on pred the dose is usually increased because there's a certain amount of insulin resistance.
i'm very concerned about the ketone readings coupled with his less than enthusiastic interest in food and high numbers. actually, if there's no change in numbers and you're available to monitor this weekend i would take the dose up to 5 units bid. i'd also try to get as much food (mixed with water) into him as possible. do you have any idea how many calories he's consuming per day?

increasing to 5u is an aggressive approach, but if this is not a false positive ketone reading... the chances of logan going into DKA are highly increased.

just some thoughts from another worry wort...
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Jill, Logan has a feeding tube so we know he' s meeting his calorie needs. He's getting 2 cans of Hills a/d (what they put him on after surgery). Each can is 180 calories. I haven't really adjusted the amount I'm feeding through the tube since he's not eating a lot on his own yet and I figure the extra calories won't hurt him at this point. For his weight, he needs 340 calories a day so he's getting more than that right now. I didn't see this post before I gave him his insulin so i stayed with 4.75. I'll go up to 5 tonight.

He did wake me at 4:45 am and he ate 1/2 can of FF. He was pretty enthusiastic about the first 1/4 and then slowed down a little with the second 1/4. I'm also pushing through extra water at each feeding and in between feedings. He hasn't gone to the LB yet this morning but I'll get a ketone test as soon as I can.
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

I am not qualified to give advice but I can say that at one point the vet wanted to put Bayley on Prednisone and I was warned that when she was on it - her bg numbers would be all messed up (also told that by a human doctor). We didn't go on pred at the time after all but I wanted share that little fact with you - I am sure you already knew but just in case :)
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

That's good news that he was enthusiastic about his FF this morning....probably got full real quickly
cause of the tube feeding though....but that is a good sign...Hope today is a better one for you both...
((Kelly))
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

Great to see that Logan is happily eating some on his own! The ketone threat must be pretty scary, but you sound very calm about it all. (( Kelly ))
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

Hello!

So nice to read that Logan wanted to eat on his own. Always a good sign! I hope he feels bettah real soon!
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

Kelly -

The A/D is 13% carb. Is there a need at this point for Logan to be on this food since it's bumping up his numbers? If your vet wants Logan on a calorie intensive diet (which is what the A/D is for, I believe), EVO 95% is even higher in calories but way lower in carbs (e.g., the chicken and turkey combo is 0 carbs). This may be something to discuss with the vet sooner rather than later given the concern about ketones and the need to address that.
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

His ketones are now small so that's good news...hopefully, they'll keep coming down today. I'm flushing water through his tube every 1 1/2 or so. He hasn't wanted to eat a whole lot on his own today. He ate about 1/2 of a FF appetizer. He's purring, but he's holding his mouth open. I've seen him do this a few times since he came home from surgery but he's doing it a lot now. Any idea what that means? He's out and being fairly social so I think he feels ok.

Sienne, I don't want to push through a food that he may potentially eat at some point. Since we're force feeding him basically, he's most likely not going to eat the food on his own. I've experiemented with different carb %s and haven't seen any differnece in his numbers. He's been on food ranging from 0% to 4% carbs to 10-14% carbs and no change in his numbers, at all. I really don't think the a/d is driving up his numbers.

As soon as DH2B gets home later today (he's been gone since Wed!!!) I'm going to go and find some other foods to try with him. Venison has been a suggested protein source for his IBD so I'm going to try the Nature's Valley Venison. I don't know if he'll eat it or not, but it's worth a try.

I'll keep flushing the water through his tube. It's almost time for his next feeding. I'll get a BG test then.
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

Great news about the ketones!!

The EVO 95% line comes in venison if that's a possibility. I don't use it so I can't comment.

Will Logan eat raw? I believe that Dr. Lisa talks about a raw diet as a good possibility for IBD but I may not be remembering this correctly.
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

Sienne and Gabby said:
Great news about the ketones!!

The EVO 95% line comes in venison if that's a possibility. I don't use it so I can't comment.

Will Logan eat raw? I believe that Dr. Lisa talks about a raw diet as a good possibility for IBD but I may not be remembering this correctly.
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I'd forgotten the EVO came in Venison, I'll pick up some of that, too. I've never tried the raw. The internist isn't a fan b/c of the bacteria issue and she's afraid that his body isn't strong enough to fight off any potential illnesses that the bacteria could cause since his immune system is suppressed. I've thought about trying it or cooking my own food for him after his inflammation comes down some.

I'm so scared he's not going to eat on his own again. This is so discouraging and frustrating. :(
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

Hi kelly,
Are you saying he is open mouth breathing?

Is your vet open on Saturday, or can you call the ER to ask them about it?

LOL, sometimes I feel like I need the ER or her regular vet on speed dial for the amount of times I have to call on occassion.

Im glad the ketones look a little different. I really dont know much about them to be able to comment one way or another.

You did not do the pred last night, right? That may be the difference today. He was on it for a very, very short time before you started cutting back.
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

carolynandlatte said:
Hi kelly,
Are you saying he is open mouth breathing?

Is your vet open on Saturday, or can you call the ER to ask them about it?

LOL, sometimes I feel like I need the ER or her regular vet on speed dial for the amount of times I have to call on occassion.

Im glad the ketones look a little different. I really dont know much about them to be able to comment one way or another.

You did not do the pred last night, right? That may be the difference today. He was on it for a very, very short time before you started cutting back.
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It's just kind of hanging open...I'm not sure if he's actually open mouth breathing or not. We were scheduled to cut back to 5mg bid from 10mg bid this morning. She had us skip the 10mg last night. I did call and leave a voicemail for his internist - she's working the ER today. I'm hoping she'll call me back and let me know about the open mouth thing.

I tested him at +7 before his tube feeding and he was down to 269. I think I'll go ahead and increase to 5 units tonight. Maybe that will help wipe out the remaning ketones and get his BG down a little more.
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320, +7 269

Hi Kelly
Just checking in to see how Logan is doing.
Glad to hear the Ketones are better and that his tempted to eat on his own.
I hope the dosecrease pushes everything back in order.
 
Still not very interested in eating. I got him to lick a little bit of a venison and pea food (had maybe 3-4 bites) and lick a little EVO duck off of my fingers. Waiting for him to go pee so I can get another ketones test in. DH2B missed him in the LB while I was gone - perhaps it was the guitar hero that kept him from catching him?! I just pushed about 30 ml of water through his tube, so hopefully he will go soon.

Increased to 5 units tonight. I'm debating about whether or not to take him in. He was doing the breathing thing while lying next to the water fountain, but he's stopped. They said they could check his breathing, but I was already doing everything they would do to treat the ketones - feeding tube, fluids. So, I'm going to see what the next ketone test shows and go from there. I may end up taking him, but I'm torn b/c I feel like they're a bunch of idiots at the ER and probably wouldn't do much for him anyway.
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320

Kelly & Logan said:
I've never tried the raw. The internist isn't a fan b/c of the bacteria issue and she's afraid that his body isn't strong enough to fight off any potential illnesses that the bacteria could cause since his immune system is suppressed.
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I have to agree with this completely, although I know it isn't the most popular opinion around here. However, Sasha was infected with Toxoplasmosis from the raw I used to try and help her IBD (which it never helped anyway). Struggling with AB treatment alongside IBD doesn't make things any easier, at least from my experience. The raw I purchased was from a reputable meat seller used by many here. Freezing it does not make a difference in many cases, as the oocysts from Toxo can live frozen (that's why it can live in frozen soil over winter season too).

(((Kelly))) Sending negative vines for the next ketone test.
 
Re: 1/23 Logan AMPS 320, +7 269, PMPS 328, +8 284

Great news - we are down to trace ketones and he just ate nearly an entire can of FF!!! I couldn't be happier! I have been so worried about him.
 
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