1/14 Ozzy PMPS 129, +2 155, +4 173- Bounce??

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Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
will make up our time over next few days
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Here is the link on getting back on schedule
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/getting-back-on-schedule.101059/

Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
I'm shooting
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Good job! Sleep is overrated with FD ;):bighug:

Look at it this way, if Ozzy earns a reduction it should give you a few days reprieve until he gets used to the new dose! You can sleep then.

This morning PS # shows you the importance of the +11 shot. Like I said, I don't/can't do in for PMPS during the week but really have learned to rely on the knowledge they provide, especially when they are really moving numbers like Ozzy is currently doing.
 
I tested him seconds before I gave him insulin. He was at 89. He just finished eating so I don't think the little bump in number was food induced.. You will probably say 89 is the same as 82 based on meter variance...o_Oo_O:confused:
 
LizzieInTexas said:
This morning PS # shows you the importance of the +11 shot. Like I said, I don't/can't do in for PMPS during the week but really have learned to rely on the knowledge they provide, especially when they are really moving numbers like Ozzy is currently doing.
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I can't do it during the week either because I am rushing home to barely get in the door in time for the +12 T/F/S, and I am selfish in saying I don't want to wake up another hour earlier every morning (I hardly get enough sleep as is), but will start doing this on weekends. Thanks!
 
Ok, I probably made some mistakes-
overslept alarm, stalled too long, waited too long to give the shot, gave reduced shot.... I'm a mess.

But I guess I'd rather do all that and try to keep him on insulin since he's had such great momentum lately, than risk throwing his cycles all off.

I have no idea what's going to happen now today...

Ok, here we go......

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Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Hi Jill, thanks for the feedback. I read the sticky Lizzie sent me and this is exactly why I decided to 'grow a pair' and go ahead with the shot.
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Yes, congrats on shooting green! Next time (you know there will be a next time!), you'll know to shoot the full dose when you're home and can monitor. :D

I tested Alex way more than necessary in 2009 to create a tool to illustrate what happens when one "shoots low to stay low". Take a peek at her 2009 spreadsheet after you've rested. It's an illustration of how the L insulins are used to their best advantage.

Ozzy threw you a bonus by doing this on the weekend! LOL!
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Yes, congrats on shooting green! Next time (you know there will be a next time!), you'll know to shoot the full dose when you're home and can monitor. :D

I tested Alex way more than necessary in 2009 to create a tool to illustrate what happens when one "shoots low to stay low". Take a peek at her 2009 spreadsheet after you've rested. It's an illustration of how the L insulins are used to their best advantage.

Ozzy threw you a bonus by doing this on the weekend! LOL!
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Thanks! And agree to being thankful it's the weekend. If it was a work day, for SURE I would've been skipping.
 
Sorry for the delay and I'm glad Jill posted some info for you.

First, you aren't a mess, you didn't mess anything up. You are tired, worried, anxious about that first green preshot. We all understand. We also know the way a new member often feels when they skip and the number skyrockets and they wish they had shot. ;) And that's ok, too, because it's all a learning experience. And, as I believe Lizzie ...or maybe Karen/Les...said...they get back on track.

I just want to explain stalling and then shooting (my reference to a "double whammy"). When we shoot late, it can act like a reduction. When we shoot early, it can act like an increase. So we typically do not suggest that you stall and also shoot a reduced dose as that "can" have the effect of a larger reduction. But having said that, it's ok that you did! You hold the syringe. Again, it's a learning experience and now you will have data for what Ozzy does in this scenario and data is always good.

The other factor at play, which is hard to take any faith in at first, is the depot. I was never a fan of reduced doses because I think it can give a caregiver a false sense of security. Quite often, because of the depot, the cycle will play out the same way as shooting a full dose. If you see higher numbers, you likely would have anyway...it doesn't necessarily mean it's because of the reduced dose. Likewise with lower numbers. The effects of shooting a reduced dose might not be seen until later in the cycle or even the next cycle.

Consider this about the depot: when a CG reduces the dose, it can take up to six cycles to see what the reduced dose is actually doing. For many cats, it's often four cycles but Gracie was one that I often had to wait six cycles to see if the reduction held or not. Of course, it is dependent on how large the depot is for that cat. If a CG reduces a dose before the depot is really full and before a reduction was actually earned, the depot won't generally carry them as long.

Please let me know any questions you have.
 
+1= 117 so he went up a little (maybe food spike, maybe not).
I never took my nappie, so going to now so I can get in as many zzzzzs before the next test.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Sorry for the delay and I'm glad Jill posted some info for you.

First, you aren't a mess, you didn't mess anything up. You are tired, worried, anxious about that first green preshot. We all understand. We also know the way a new member often feels when they skip and the number skyrockets and they wish they had shot. ;) And that's ok, too, because it's all a learning experience. And, as I believe Lizzie ...or maybe Karen/Les...said...they get back on track.

I just want to explain stalling and then shooting (my reference to a "double whammy"). When we shoot late, it can act like a reduction. When we shoot early, it can act like an increase. So we typically do not suggest that you stall and also shoot a reduced dose as that "can" have the effect of a larger reduction. But having said that, it's ok that you did! You hold the syringe. Again, it's a learning experience and now you will have data for what Ozzy does in this scenario and data is always good.

The other factor at play, which is hard to take any faith in at first, is the depot. I was never a fan of reduced doses because I think it can give a caregiver a false sense of security. Quite often, because of the depot, the cycle will play out the same way as shooting a full dose. If you see higher numbers, you likely would have anyway...it doesn't necessarily mean it's because of the reduced dose. Likewise with lower numbers. The effects of shooting a reduced dose might not be seen until later in the cycle or even the next cycle.

Consider this about the depot: when CG reduces the dose, it can take up to six cycles to see what the reduced dose is actually doing. For many cats, it's often four cycles but Gracie was one that I often had to wait six cycles to see if the reduction held or not. Of course, it is dependent on how large the depot is for that cat. If a CG reduces a dose before the depot is really full and before a reduction was actually earned, the depot won't generally carry them as long.

Please let me know any questions you have.
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Need a nappie. Will digest this later.
 
Sounds good! Great job. I left you some info for when you get back up.

Because this could be a food spike and it is your first time shooting green, I do think a +2 is wise. It will tell us if he's going to bounce.

Sweet dreams! See you at +2!
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Ok, here we go......

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Good job shooting, even if you gave chicken shot!! I was so naive the I shot some pre-shot numbers in the 60s pretty early on. I figured go big or go home! So, 86 today was no biggie. But also bcuz I can be around today, etc.
BTW, where do you find all of these cute/silly cat cartoons, etc.???
 
While waiting for the +2, I also want to address split dosing.

Under the TR protocol, when faced with a lower number like today, you can shoot a part of the current dose and then 1-2 hours later, if/when numbers stabilize, shoot the remainder. I've seen it done here a few times. However, I advised against shooting more insulin after you shot the 1u for a couple of reasons.

First, even if Ozzy were to go OTJ fast, why stick him with needles more than necessary? Over time, and it does take a while, if you aren't changing shot sites and you are using larger gauge syringes, he could build up scar tissue.

Second, while you know what 1.25u looks like and you can draw it consistently, it actually can look a little different if you are only shooting 0.25u if you aren't using calipers. Whether you can exactly eyeball how 0.25u looks when you've been shooting 1.25u, is a good question. I know I couldn't :joyful: I know Jill could but she has always been great at eyeballing doses. Point is....he could get a little "too much" insulin and if numbers went below the reduction point and you reduced him and then he fizzled.....well...you can see that conundrum. So, best to keep it simple.

Hope you got some sleep!
 
Ok, his +2 was 111 so the lantus is kicking in. Hubby was on kitty duty while I took a little nap (which is hard for me because I usually don't nap and will want to sleep for 3-4 hours minimum). But I'm back up and back at it. Hubby gave him the other half of his breakfast at +2, this is a normal feeding time for him.

His +3 is going to be coming up in a few moments here. Will test again and post back.
 
Great!!!!! It looks like he might have a "normal" Lantus cycle (which still means active) but not the kind of active you might see with a bounce clearing cycle or if the +2 had been a lot lower than the PS.

Hope you feel a bit more refreshed. See you in a few.
 
Taffysmama said:
BTW, where do you find all of these cute/silly cat cartoons, etc.???
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I just google them. I'm building up quite a little stock pile of them to use for the right occasions. :woot::woot: I figured our condos could use some spicing up and some more silly stuff. It's kind of doom and gloom around here a bit with all the worry, fear, and exhaustion...and we need to laugh more, too. I'm a silly person and I like to laugh a lot!! And kitties are silly too!!

Go check out the silly one I posted Chris and China's page last night. We got a good chuckle!!

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So far so good, +3=101.
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Something weird happened--- he didn't want his post-pokey treat. I haven't been giving them to him as much lately because most times he is fed his normal food right after his poke. He didn't want one the other day either. Could have have stopped liking them all the sudden? He was obsessed with them at first.
 
Nice +3. You might want to give him just a bit of LC and let's see if he will stay flat in high greens.

See you at +4. (We are testing more today than you might have to in the future since he's not had a green PS).
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
So far so good, +3=101.
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Something weird happened--- he didn't want his post-pokey treat. I haven't been giving them to him as much lately because most times he is fed his normal food right after his poke. He didn't want one the other day either. Could have have stopped liking them all the sudden? He was obsessed with them at first.
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Gracie got to where she also didn't care about a post pokey treat. She loved her treats but didn't want them after a poke.
 
Looking good , Jo and Ozzy :):bighug:.....just checked out the cat gif on Chris's thread....hilarious !!!!! A joyful heart is good medicine so keep it up Jo !!!!
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
I just google them. I'm building up quite a little stock pile of them to use for the right occasions. :woot::woot: I figured our condos could use some spicing up and some more silly stuff. It's kind of doom and gloom around here a bit with all the worry, fear, and exhaustion...and we need to laugh more, too. I'm a silly person and I like to laugh a lot!! And kitties are silly too!!

Go check out the silly one I posted Chris and China's page last night. We got a good chuckle!!

View attachment 25664
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Our first three years here, Lantus Land (as it was known then) was party central. Everyone across the FDMB knew our kitties had tons of parties. The posts were hilarious.....it got us through the early days. Even my DH, Mike, was posting and we all had a great time with the kitties always going somewhere in the LL bus. Chefs Stu, Mannie, and Rusty were always cooking up great food. Tess was the amazing pastry chef and my sweet Gracie was the mixologist. The KTSS (Kittens of the Travelling Soup and Spa) always visited anyone who was sick or had to go to the vet, bringing soup and giving spa treatments. We had TA...testaholic anonymous. There was Gracie's Lil Stinka Club and her Friday condo was always infamous for Lupita Fridays. The niptinis flowed at every party.

There are still parties....always a full moon party and OTJ Parties where the menu is always great and FD friendly. Be sure and join in! Civvies are always welcome....but not droolers.

Good one on China's condo.
 
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Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Could have have stopped liking them all the sudden?
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FD chicken or other? I have drastically reduced the use of these (FD) with my guys. I was using them for overnight snacks in the feeder, and I was re-hydrating generously and breaking into smaller pieces. and they loved them at first, too. But too often I was feeling they were contributing to tummy troubles for both kitties. In fact, I gave a very little in the early AM hours and civ Baby Kitty puked it up a few hours later. I am experimenting with making my own treats. I have not hit a jackpot yet (they reject my creations, so far) but I am going to keep trying things.
 
Marje, as a FD "youngster "( 5 months) to this FD whirlwind , I must tell you I have never experienced such sincere love, help and compassion anywhere except for my natural family and church family . There is such a sweet spirit about this board...I believe because everything that you all do is based out of love and giving.....and then of course vast knowledge and willingness to share.....it leaves me speechless.....thank u, thank u for being willing to give of yourself :bighug:
 
Beth 73 said:
Marje, as a FD "youngster "( 5 months) to this FD whirlwind , I must tell you I have never experienced such sincere love, help and compassion anywhere except for my natural family and church family . There is such a sweet spirit about this board...I believe because everything that you all do is based out of love and giving.....and then of course vast knowledge and willingness to share.....it leaves me speechless.....thank u, thank u for being willing to give of yourself :bighug:
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(((Beth)))). That is so sweet and kind. You're welcome. I do it to pay it forward for all the help we got and in loving memory of my baby girl because without FDMB, I'm sure I would have lost her in a few months to a hypo if I'd listened to our vet.

I agree about the people here. I've seen some amazing things. I've seen people with just $1.00 to spare donate it to LLEF to help another member's cat with DKA; I've seen members give thousands of dollars collectively to contribute to the same fund to save the kitty. I've seen members adopt the FD kitties of those who have suddenly passed away. I've seen hugs, love, support at a badly needed time, friendships develop which will last the rest of my life. It is, indeed, a special place. No one...not even your family outside of your husband....will ever understand an FD kitty and the care we give them like another member here.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
(((Beth)))). That is so sweet and kind. You're welcome. I do it to pay it forward for all the help we got and in loving memory of my baby girl because without FDMB, I'm sure I would have lost her in a few months to a hypo if I'd listened to our vet.

I agree about the people here. I've seen some amazing things. I've seen people with just $1.00 to spare donate it to LLEF to help another member's cat with DKA; I've seen members give thousands of dollars collectively to contribute to the same fund to save the kitty. I've seen members adopt the FD kitties of those who have suddenly passed away. I've seen hugs, love, support at a badly needed time, friendships develop which will last the rest of my life. It is, indeed, a special place. No one...not even your family outside of your husband....will ever understand an FD kitty and the care we give them like another member here.
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That is absolute truth, Marje.....total understanding, total support, total compassion found here ....makes my heart full to bursting ...
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Under the TR protocol, when faced with a lower number like today, you can shoot a part of the current dose and then 1-2 hours later, if/when numbers stabilize, shoot the remainder. I've seen it done here a few times. However, I advised against shooting more insulin after you shot the 1u for a couple of reasons
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Not to clutter this post Marje but it's the first I've ever heard of this. I certainly don't understand how that could be a safe/good option.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Our first three years here, Lantus Land (as it was known then) was party central. Everyone across the FDMB knew our kitties had tons of parties. The posts were hilarious.....it got us through the early days. Even my DH, Mike, was posting and we all had a great time with the kitties always going somewhere in the LL bus. Chefs Stu, Mannie, and Rusty were always cooking up great food. Tess was the amazing pastry chef and my sweet Gracie was the mixologist. The KTSS (Kittens of the Travelling Soup and Spa) always visited anyone who was sick or had to go to the vet, bringing soup and giving spa treatments. We had TA...testaholic anonymous. There was Gracie's Lil Stinka Club and her Friday condo was always infamous for Lupita Fridays. The niptinis flowed at every party.
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I miss those days! My favorite was always KTSS, send out when any kitty went to the vet to get that "vetty smell" off, so the civvies would stop hissing.

Nice job shooting this morning, Jo. I know you were groggy from lack of sleep and your heart was in your throat, but you did it anyway! Don't worry, you will soon look forward to those green preshots, even crave them!

BTW, Hi, I'm Tricia an I'm a testaholic. ;)
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Not to clutter this post Marje but it's the first I've ever heard of this. I certainly don't understand how that could be a safe/good option.
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It's not clutter....it's education so no worries. I hate to cut and paste but from the latest rendition of the TR protocol (bold is mine):
If blood glucose at the time of the next insulin injection is 2.8–5.5 mmol/L (50–100 mg/dL)

Initially test which of the alternate methods is best suited to the individual cat:
1. Feed cat and reduce the dose by 0.25–0.5 IU depending on if cat is on low or high dose of insulin

2. Feed the cat, wait 1–2 h; when the glucose concentration increases to >5.5 mmol/L (>100 mg/dL), give the normal dose. If the glucose concentration does not increase within 1–2 h, reduce the dose by 0.25 IU or 0.5 IU (as above).

3. Split the dose: feed cat and give most of dose immediately and then give the remainder 1–2 h later, when the glucose concentration has increased to >5.5 mmol/L (>100 mg/dL).
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From Tilly's:
It is likely, because of the way Lantus and Levemir work (they appear to work for >12 hours, therefore producing overlap between doses), you will face the problem of having a low pre-shot BG and wondering what dose you should give. Try reducing the dose the first few times to see what happens - in all likelihood the cat will have higher BGs as a result. A second alternative is to feed the cat, wait 1 to 2 hours, test again, and when the BGs start rising, give the normal dose. A third alternative is to split the dose: feed the cat, give most of the dose immediately and give the remainder 1 to 2 hours later when the BGs start rising. However, in most cats none of these alternatives have shown themselves to work as well as consistent dosing. You will have to learn how your cat reacts to Lantus/Levemir before you determine the best way to deal with this problem.
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It's not a method I ever used or would use and it is not commonly used here (although I've seen it a few times). But I felt it was important to provide further info and not just my "nope" reply which was meant for this specific situation.
 
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