08/04 Zener PMPS 360; +2 285; +4 300

[Anne & Zener GA]

It's a blue morning, one of our first times we have shot in the blue. nailbite_smile

Zener keeps having bouts of poor appetite, and at especially critical times like at and shortly after his shots. He's only been completely on wet food from a lifetime of kibble for a short time. Just when I think Zener's appetite is poor we have a low number and a chance to feed medium carb or high carb with a little gravy and he eats like a lumberjack! Maybe it isn't so much poor appetite as he hates the low carb foods, and lordy, we have tried so many. Parmesan hasn't worked, crunched up kibble on top hasn't worked. Fortiflora helps but mostly he licks that off. He is a junk food junkie! Any tricks for getting ex-kibble, picky kitties to eat LC?

Zener's condo 8/3/11

Yesterday's summary
08/03/11 Zener ATrak
AMPS 206 1st decreased dose @ 1.5 u
+2 330
+7 361
+10 340
PMPS 314 2nd dose @ 1.5 u
+2 200
+3 163
+4 175
+11.5 170

Here's the blue beginning
08/04/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 182, ate freeze dried chicken, fed 1 oz LC would not eat, added 1/2 t HC gravy and licked that off
+2 178, not eating LC, fed 1t MC and ate like a lumberjack

I'll be posting a +3 and +6, then out for a bit this afternoon. Keeping paws crossed we have a calm day, we need it!
cat_pet_icon

 

[PeterDevonMocha]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182 Food question?

Hi guys .. sorry to hear zener isn't much of a wet food kitty .. have you tried wal marts special kitty? We buy the 4 pack, of 5.5oz can's .. turkey and giblets ... mocha loves this food .. but she loves any food it seems! Hope you guys have a great day!

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182 Food question?

Hello!
I see Mr. Z decided to take the express train back from Bounceville yesterday. . .
(probably so he could score some more HC! clever kitty)

Any tricks for getting ex-kibble, picky kitties to eat LC?

I don't have any experience with that. However, since you are looking to keep the Z man from going too low (I don't kow if that's the long term plan/goal) would it be a bad thing to just feed him MC or LC/MC combo (if he will eat that) and use a bit more juice if needed? Just a thought....
I'm sure there are folks out there who have done the dry to wet transition and have tips to share.

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182 Food question?

Hi guys .. sorry to hear zener isn't much of a wet food kitty .. have you tried wal marts special kitty?

We have not tried wal mart special kitty yet. I've seen good reviews of it here and it's economical. Will put it on our list of things to try. I usually just buy one or two cans for a trial. Thanks Peter!

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182 Food question?

I see Mr. Z decided to take the express train back from Bounceville yesterday. . .
(probably so he could score some more HC! clever kitty)

That very same thought crossed my mind. Zener dumps his numbers for gravy!

The express train gave us a little more excitement last night, but then he leveled out and was still there this morning! Nice.

since you are looking to keep the Z man from going too low (I don't kow if that's the long term plan/goal) would it be a bad thing to just feed him MC or LC/MC combo (if he will eat that) and use a bit more juice if needed? Just a thought....

That is exactly what we were thinking when we saw his numbers this morning. And it seems like sometimes the lower medium carb food doesn't really increase him. So, at +2 we did a mix of MC and LC and he liked that!

Putting on patience pants and dancing shoes! Thanks Sandy and Black kitty.
:thumbup

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182+2 178;+3 174 Food question?

Looks like steady blue so far...

08/04/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 182, ate freeze dried chicken, fed 1 oz LC would not eat, added 1/2 t HC gravy and licked that off
+2 178, not eating LC, fed 1t MC and ate like a lumberjack
+3 174, fed 1t MC & 1/2 oz LC, ate it all!

Will post a +6. Zener feeling good this morning!

 

[Melissa & Tarragon]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182+2 178;+3 174 Food question?

Tarragon was a very crunch addicted kitty. I take 1/2 can FF classic and mix it with 1/2 can FF flaked. Then I add a lot of water to it. He loves it like this. If I just set out classic, he won't touch it. I don't know if that will work for you, but Tarragon is as picky as they come.

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182+2 178;+3 174 Food question?

Thanks Melissa, that's a great idea. Zener likes the flakes FF and eats the classic when he is not so picky, like after we've given him an appetite stimulant. We will try this mix and see what happens!

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182+2 178;+3 174;+6 292 Food question?

Wow, big jump up @ +6. We have been feeding a bit of MC with LC, but not that much to cause such a big jump, I don't think. Would rather see numbers down instead of up @ +6. Could this be another bounce from the blues last night and this morning?
confused_cat

08/04/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 182, ate freeze dried chicken, fed 1 oz LC would not eat, added 1/2 t HC gravy and licked that off
+2 178, not eating LC, fed 1t MC and ate like a lumberjack
+3 174, fed 1t MC & 1/2 oz LC, ate it all!
+6 292, fed freeze dried chicken at poke

Will get a +9 or +10 later this afternoon.

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182+2 178;+3 174;+6 292;+10 364 Dose??

Yikes, going the wrong way on the rainbow!

08/04/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 182, 3rd dose 1.5u, ate freeze dried chicken, fed 1 oz LC would not eat, added 1/2 t HC gravy and licked that off
+2 178, not eating LC, fed 1t MC and ate like a lumberjack
+3 174, fed 1t MC & 1/2 oz LC, ate it all!
+6 292, fed freeze dried chicken at poke
+10 364, fed freeze dried chicken at poke

Been an interesting day, started in nice blues and gradually up now to the pinks. I'm not quite sure if this could be a bounce from the blues recently, or if it could be a failed reduction? This is the end of our 3rd cycle on the reduced dose of 1.5u. Would appreciate more experienced eyes and opinions, please. Thanks!
confused_cat

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182+2 178;+3 174;+6 292;+10 364 Dose??

Personally, I think it's the effect of the food along with some bounciness. I'm not sure what % carb you're feeding when you fed MC. MC is usually above 10%. At some point, all of the carbs are going to catch up. Some of what you're seeing may also be the result of making dose adjustments. Lantus likes consistency. Numbers can get wonky if you make dose changes even if it's because of blue numbers.

I would encourage you to pick a food and stick with it. If it's going to be a food that's around 10% carbs, that's fine if that's what Zener will eat. It may allow you to keep the dose more stable and you won't need to keep tweeking it.

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener AMPS 182+2 178;+3 174;+6 292;+10 364 Dose??

Personally, I think it's the effect of the food along with some bounciness. I'm not sure what % carb you're feeding when you fed MC. MC is usually above 10%. At some point, all of the carbs are going to catch up. Some of what you're seeing may also be the result of making dose adjustments. Lantus likes consistency. Numbers can get wonky if you make dose changes even if it's because of blue numbers.

The medium carb we are using is fancy feast elegant medleys, usually chicken florentine,tuna or salmon 9-11%. The low carb we are feeding is FF chicken classic, little friskies mixed grill (8%) or supreme supper (7%), and blue buffalo tuna. Right off the top of my head I can't think of the % carbs in the FF and Blue Buffalo, but I have it here somewhere. I believe both are under or at 8%.

So, this is the new dose wonkiness I've bookmarked, will re-read!

I would encourage you to pick a food and stick with it. If it's going to be a food that's around 10% carbs, that's fine if that's what Zener will eat. It may allow you to keep the dose more stable and you won't need to keep tweeking it.

Boy howdy, we are working on this part hard. We find something he likes to eat for about a day, then he thinks we are trying to poison him! We've had the best luck so far with the foods above, but I haven't tried any of the fancy feast flaked foods yet. Anything that's really good for him - wellness, evo, etc, he absolutely will not eat it. We are also using fortiflora on his food and that helps some too.

Getting him to eat something regularly and enough is still a challenge! Thanks for taking a look. We'll carry on with this dose for 6 cycles and see how things look then. Does that seem reasonable?

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener PMPS 360 Dose??

Still trying to work out the right kinds and amounts of foods to balance getting him to eat and keeping him from spiking.

08/04/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 182, 3rd dose 1.5u, ate freeze dried chicken, fed 1 oz LC would not eat, added 1/2 t HC gravy and licked that off
+2 178, not eating LC (8%), fed 1t MC (11%) and ate like a lumberjack
+3 174, fed 1t MC (11%) & 1/2 oz LC (8%), ate it all!
+6 292, fed freeze dried chicken at poke
+10 364, fed freeze dried chicken at poke
PMPS 360, 4th dose @ 1.5 u, fed 1 oz little friskies mixed grill (8%) and 1/2 t FF chicken florentine (11%), appetite fair

Will get a +2 and +3 or +4 tonight, depending on how the numbers roll.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 08/04 Zener PMPS 360 Dose & foods??

It's not new dose wonkiness. You see that only for 1 - 2 cycles (max of a 24 hr period) within a few days after a dose increase.

The FF chicken is 4% and the Blue is 8%. Every cat is different when it comes to carb metabolism. Jill's Alex will go up 30 points from a freeze dries chicken treats. You're having to combat issues with Zener's appetite. What I was ineffectively trying to suggest is to stay within a smaller carb range. If Zener will reliably eat 8 - 11%, stick with that. You can then work the insulin around the food. My guys get food that's 4% carb. It doesn't change. It takes one variable out of the mix.

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 08/04 Zener PMPS 360 Dose & foods??

Our experience did not contain excess bounciness or CH, so I don't feel at all qualified to give an opinion on what dose might be best at this time. I know you don't like the pink. on the other hand you don't like him below a certain number due to the CH. It may take a little stumbling around to figure out what works best for Mr. Zs circumstances.

That was a nice stretch o' bloo and yeller he had there, about 1.5 cycles...

I know you guys are struggling with Mr. Zs food/appetite; I'm sure you'll get it sorted out. Hopefully, with all your experimentation, you will end up with several different flavors/types he likes ,all in the same carb range and the Z man will be happy with them. I was lucky in that respect, didn't have those problems with BK, I could be super consistent. The one thing that did happen is that I always fed him Wellness, 2 flavors, same carb range, that I would alternate. When he was in weight gain mode he would eat a 15oz can each 24 hours! One day, he was done with the Wellness. He would not eat another bite. I found it so odd. Go figure. He has been eating FF ever since, 2 flavors, same carb range, that I rotate.

If Zener will reliably eat 8 - 11%, stick with that. You can then work the insulin around the food. My guys get food that's 4% carb. It doesn't change. It takes one variable out of the mix.

I believe that will make a big difference. Just a bit of a challenge to get there!

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener PMPS 360 Dose & foods??

It's not new dose wonkiness. You see that only for 1 - 2 cycles (max of a 24 hr period) within a few days after a dose increase.

Okay, I'm understanding this then. Since we had a decrease, not NDW. And also, showing up in later cycles.

The FF chicken is 4% and the Blue is 8%. Every cat is different when it comes to carb metabolism. Jill's Alex will go up 30 points from a freeze dries chicken treats. You're having to combat issues with Zener's appetite. What I was ineffectively trying to suggest is to stay within a smaller carb range. If Zener will reliably eat 8 - 11%, stick with that. You can then work the insulin around the food. My guys get food that's 4% carb. It doesn't change. It takes one variable out of the mix.

Thanks for the #s. I have so many different files saved, one of these days these numbers will be in my memory! I understand what you mean. It's more my thinker these days than your explainer, still experiencing post-surgery fatigue, so my brain poops out.

Right now, Zener is definitely doing better in the 8-11% range with better appetite here. So, we'll stick to this range and see how things go. Sometimes when his numbers are low and I give him 8-11% carbs, it doesn't do much to increase his BG. It usually takes the HC around 18% or more to do much, sometimes. More data needed! Would love to get him down to lower carb range like 4%, but maybe while we are still battling appetite issues we won't worry about that right now.

Thanks again, I understand now and we'll work on keeping his carb range consistent - of course, unless he decides to take the express elevator down again!

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener PMPS 360 Dose & foods??

Thanks Sandy! I forget sometimes about Zener's CH and what kind of effect that may have on him. And he does like to bounce. Those two months he was on Humulin did not help and may have led to him getting used to high numbers! Who knows. Anyway, he is making progress and thanks for the reminder of the good blue-yellow cycles we had. That always makes the pink so much more dramatic when we see them!

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 08/04 Zener PMPS 360 Dose & foods??

I had to learn how to look at the positives with BK or I would have lost my mind.

He had such resistance to insulin...when I look at his ss today and see how much insulin he required, it's almost frightening. And still, for so long, the numbers just did not want to budge. 6 months before he saw his first green, and that was just 1 cell on the ss! It was 11 months before he tasted HC!

Keep plugging along. You guys are doing a great job. It will all come together one day.

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener PMPS 360 Dose & foods??

Thanks Sandy, it always helps to be reminded about looking at the positives when it's a pink or red world! I appreciate all the help and support. I'll start posting the % of carbs on Zener's SS so it will be clear to others what they are looking at when I ask for help.
:YMHUG:

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

Re: 08/04 Zener PMPS 360 Dose & foods??

Hello all and thanks for your help! I'll start posting the % carbs on Zener's SS so when I ask for help again, it will be more clear what we are doing with foods. Here's the start of the evening dance card.

08/04/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 182, 3rd dose 1.5u, ate freeze dried chicken, fed 1 oz LC would not eat, added 1/2 t HC gravy and licked that off
+2 178, not eating LC (8%), fed 1t MC (11%) and ate like a lumberjack
+3 174, fed 1t MC (11%) & 1/2 oz LC (8%), ate it all!
+6 292, fed freeze dried chicken at poke
+10 364, fed freeze dried chicken at poke
PMPS 360, 4th dose @ 1.5 u, fed 1 oz little friskies mixed grill (8%) and 1/2 t FF chicken florentine (11%), appetite fair
+2 285, fed 1 oz 8% carb blue buffalo tuna

I'll get a +4 before bedtime, well...I hope it will be bedtime!

 

[Anne & Zener GA]

The evening dance card is full tonight...

08/04/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 182, 3rd dose 1.5u, ate freeze dried chicken, fed 1 oz LC would not eat, added 1/2 t HC gravy and licked that off
+2 178, not eating LC (8%), fed 1t MC (11%) and ate like a lumberjack
+3 174, fed 1t MC (11%) & 1/2 oz LC (8%), ate it all!
+6 292, fed freeze dried chicken at poke
+10 364, fed freeze dried chicken at poke
PMPS 360, 4th dose @ 1.5 u, fed 1 oz little friskies mixed grill (8%) and 1/2 t FF chicken florentine (11%), appetite fair
+2 285, fed 1 oz 8% carb blue buffalo tuna
+3 fed 1/2 oz 8% carb - Zener was asking for food and got to it before could test
+4 300 - fed 1 oz 8% carb before bedtime

Good news tonight, he gained some weight this week and he is back up to the weight we would like to keep him around - 13 lbs 8.5 oz. He weighed a little over 15 lbs before diagnosis and lost down to 13 lbs.

Although it's been a pinky kind of day, hopefully no surprises tonight - two tired beans off to bed! We will keep working on his appetite and giving him a consistent range of carbs, finding the foods he likes the best.

Thanks to all for your help in answering all my questions! Nighty night LL!
I-) I-) I-)