07/11 Abbott PMPS 91 -- 2nd time shooting low

AbbottTheCat

AbbottTheCat

Member Since 2022
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/07-05-abbott-pmps-432-3rd-bounce-tr.265444/#post-2972537

Just increased to 1.75u this morning. AMPS was 298 and was only able to get a +4.

PMPS 91. Tested while he was eating 1/4 of his food so that PMPS was not food influenced.
I stalled 20 minutes and tested and got a 107 before shooting 1.5 (prior dose was the first 1.75 this AM). This could have been food influenced. I know, I should have not fed but he gobbled it up during testing

Feeling a bit nervous but I'm around to test all night.
I have the feeder to go off as usual at +1,2,3,4. But I am welcome to feeding suggestions.
I have no data on how carb sensitive he is as I have not had to give anything. His lowest nadir has been 66.
I have hypo kit on hand and was planning on giving drops of honey to bring him up if needed.
 
It generally takes 20-30 minutes for food to effect the bg. With the 20% meter variance it likely wasn’t food influenced and flat. Get a +1 and +2. We do usually suggest when you see a lower than usual preshot and are new that you stall without food and retest in 20-30 minutes. Please add the 107 to your ss.
 
Ok, I shot at 8:20, so my +1 will be at 9:20?
I have read the Hypo sticky like 100 times. Since I don't know how he reacts to carbs should I give honey if needed? Also have corn syrup but not sure if he's allergic. He hasn't had anything with carbs in it for years...
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yes. Let's see the +1.

As long as you can monitor, you can shoot any number over 50 with TR. We are around. Don't panic. :) How long till the +1?

ETA: What do you have in terms of MC and HC? Carb%?
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MC I have RAWZ wet that’s like 3.9%
And I have FF gravy lovers chicken and beef feast
…I think that’s 10% ??
Honey and karo
 
I hope you don’t have a green onset. Big drops cause bounces. You might be statt8 g a bounce already.
 
AbbottTheCat said:
+1 @165. Now I'm kicking myself for not just shooting the increased 1.75 on time. Ugh :banghead:
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We have all panicked at the first green preshot. Most of us have skipped. You shot nearly the full dose. What you saw in the AM cycle was a combination of bounce clearing + increase + his usual end of cycle nadir when clearing a bounce.

AbbottTheCat said:
MC I have RAWZ wet that’s like 3.9%
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3.9% is LC. MC is 10-15% carbs and HC is >15%

AbbottTheCat said:
And I have FF gravy lovers chicken and beef feast
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This is 15%
https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
 
“What you saw in the AM cycle was a combination of bounce clearing + increase + his usual end of cycle nadir when clearing a bounce”

I didn’t test enough in AM cycle but yes I think you’re right. Maybe I should have skipped?
 
AbbottTheCat said:
I didn’t test enough in AM cycle but yes I think you’re right. Maybe I should have skipped?
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Last meal in the AM cycle was at +4? 91 was a comfortable number to shoot when following TR and if you can monitor. It's scary at first, but once you get used to shooting green, any number over 50 can be shot.
 
He is still higher than PMPS so he will probably stay in blues for a while and then head higher. Are you asking if you need to get a +4 test or if you can all it a night (Yes you can) or if you need to test sooner than +4?
 
On 7/03 his +2 was higher than 149 and he ended up at 66 nadir. Think I can still call it a night? Is that because he’s higher than PS and will likely go up instead of have a green nadir? I’m exhausted but I can set an alarm for +4
 
AbbottTheCat said:
On 7/03 his +2 was higher than 149 and he ended up at 66 nadir.
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Sorry, I should have been clearer. His +2/+2.5 are higher than his PS which means it is a bounce cycle since he is higher than PS after onset. (Except for cats whose onset is at +3, in which case a +2/+2.5 will not tell you what kind of cycle it will be).

Yes, you can call it a night.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Sorry, I should have been clearer. His +2/+2.5 are higher than his PS which means it is a bounce cycle since he is higher than PS after onset. (Except for cats whose onset is at +3, in which case a +2/+2.5 will not tell you what kind of cycle it will be).

Yes, you can call it a night.
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Ok gotcha. Thanks again for your help and thank you @tiffmaxee !
Do you think he bounced because I stalled and decreased?
 
AbbottTheCat said:
MC I have RAWZ wet that’s like 3.9%
And I have FF gravy lovers chicken and beef feast
…I think that’s 10% ??
Honey and karo
Click to expand...
Next time you're out pick up some of these
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovets Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any others on the food list
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
tiffmaxee said:
The stall didn’t likely cause a bounce but the green pmps might have. The reduction will possibly effect tomorrow. Are you going to go back to 1.75?
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Yes I should have shot full dose I just kinda panicked because I didn’t test a lot in AM cycle cause they were yellows and when I saw the 91 PMPS I wasn’t quite sure if I would be shooting a bounce clearing cycle and adding to downward momentum. I guess that’s what I did anyway but he bounced which confuses me.

yes I think I should go back to 1.75 because he was trending higher nadir since 66 on 1.5u.
So tomorrow an AMPS of 50 or higher and I’m good to shoot 1.75?
 
AbbottTheCat said:
Yes I should have shot full dose I just kinda panicked because I didn’t test a lot in AM cycle cause they were yellows and when I saw the 91 PMPS I wasn’t quite sure if I would be shooting a bounce clearing cycle and adding to downward momentum. I guess that’s what I did anyway but he bounced which confuses me.

yes I think I should go back to 1.75 because he was trending higher nadir since 66 on 1.5u.
So tomorrow an AMPS of 50 or higher and I’m good to shoot 1.75?
Click to expand...

meant to say higher than 50
 
AbbottTheCat said:
Yes I should have shot full dose I just kinda panicked because I didn’t test a lot in AM cycle cause they were yellows and when I saw the 91 PMPS I wasn’t quite sure if I would be shooting a bounce clearing cycle and adding to downward momentum. I guess that’s what I did anyway but he bounced which confuses me.
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There is nothing that says you should not shoot the full dose in a bounce clearing cycle. We suggest not increasing in a bounce clearing cycle since the increase can add to the downward momentum - this applies to cats who respond to the dose increase in the very first cycle.

See post #6 on shooting a dropping number in this sticky on: Protocols: Myths Debunked

AbbottTheCat said:
So tomorrow an AMPS of 50 or higher and I’m good to shoot 1.75?
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Yes. Sometimes stalling without food can cause numbers to drop as well. So if you can monitor and have supplies, shoot any number over 50.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
There is nothing that says you should not shoot the full dose in a bounce clearing cycle. We suggest not increasing in a bounce clearing cycle since the increase can add to the downward momentum - this applies to cats who respond to the dose increase in the very first cycle.

See post #6 on shooting a dropping number in this sticky on: Protocols: Myths Debunked


Yes. Sometimes stalling without food can cause numbers to drop as well. So if you can monitor and have supplies, shoot any number over 50.
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@Bandit's Mom

Speaking of supplies. It looks like I might be getting closer to seeing numbers under 100 more often and moving into next stage.
I know ECID but How many times a week on average would I have to feed carbs and how much?
I'd like to have enough MC and HC on hand to get through next stage and OTJ trial. How many cans would this be?

I would really prefer to not feed any FF at all but is honey added to LC enough?
I'm guessing not because honey won't keep BG high for as long as HC food.

Is there a recipe for making my own gravy and would that added to LC suffice for MC and HC feeding?

Does DIY gravy take longer to wear off than honey?

Sorry for all the questions, lol
 
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You could probably try managing with honey for the first week or two and see if you can avoid feeding commercial foods.

Honey does cause BG to rise a little sooner and leaves the system also a little sooner than higher carb food but that's not the reason why most people don't use it. It's because it's hard to arrive at a carb % based on honey i.e. how much honey do you need to add to how much food to get a certain carb %. It's trial and error and more work than just feeding a certain % carb canned food :-)

There are a few CGs here with cats who have allergies who use only honey with raw food so it's doable.

I don't know of any recipe for making your own gravy.
 
Honey does cause BG to rise a little sooner and leaves the system also a little sooner than higher carb food---

Is this more desirable during low numbers? Or would I want longer lasting?
I'm just not sure what a typical day in the greens would like with carb adding.

Do you think the gravy added to LC would be longer lasting than honey?
I'm searching the site but can't seem to find much info on DIY gravy.
Also, has anyone determined the carb % of DIY gravy?
 
AbbottTheCat said:
@Bandit's Mom

Speaking of supplies. It looks like I might be getting closer to seeing numbers under 100 more often and moving into next stage.
I know ECID but How many times a week on average would I have to feed carbs and how much?
I'd like to have enough MC and HC on hand to get through next stage and OTJ trial. How many cans would this be?

I would really prefer to not feed any FF at all but is honey added to LC enough?
I'm guessing not because honey won't keep BG high for as long as HC food.

Is there a recipe for making my own gravy and would that added to LC suffice for MC and HC feeding?

Does DIY gravy take longer to wear off than honey?

Sorry for all the questions, lol
Click to expand...
I am wondering if some gravy made with corn starch or some white flour would do the trick. You can probably find a recipe made with beef stock or turkey stock and a little fat and some starch. Williams-Sonoma also sells some pretty good gravy starters that you just mix with stock. The classic recipe turkey gravy base ingredients are:

  • Water, cornstarch, turkey flavor (chicken broth, turkey broth salt, natual flavor), turkey broth flavor (turkey broth, salt, flavor), turkey fat, salt, caramel color, lactic acid.
 
Thanks! Good info.
I’m leaning towards the weruva cat kitchen pouches and just squeezing out the gravy onto LC. I saw a post about then on here.

Id prefer to feed diy gravy but wish I could find info on a diy gravy recipe that has carb %.
I’m hearing that the carb% is the most important part when dealing with lower numbers??
 
Looked up that gravy starter packet and it lists the carb%. But sodium is off the charts! I don’t know if that one would work but maybe another gravy starter?
 
AbbottTheCat said:
Looked up that gravy starter packet and it lists the carb%. But sodium is off the charts! I don’t know if that one would work but maybe another gravy starter?
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I think your idea about Weruva is good. Those are good quality foods and they’re very transparent with their food nutrition information. Sodium s a problem in most pre-made foods. I would not want to see Abbott consuming high sodium on a regular basis.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
@Bron and Sheba (GA) you had Sheba on a homemade raw diet and only used honey to bump up the carbs. Any tips for Drew on this as far as how much honey to add to food, etc.
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It’s trial and error to start with. I found just a couple of drops, literally, was all that was needed for Sheba but ECID. I used to put it on the plate and she would just lick it up, but she was very food motivated. Sometimes I put it into her food as well.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
It’s trial and error to start with. I found just a couple of drops, literally, was all that was needed for Sheba but ECID. I used to put it on the plate and she would just lick it up, but she was very food motivated. Sometimes I put it into her food as well.
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So honey was all you needed? I thought I needed something that didn’t wear off as fast. Could you give some examples of instances where you needed something besides honey? Thanks
 
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