03/04 Rupert +12, 97,+13,74 PMPS=118,+1,138,+4.5=228

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Pip & Rupert

Pip & Rupert

Member Since 2012
yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65256&p=708748#p708748

yesterdays numbers:

AMPS 405
+ 4 487.8
+ 6 509.4
+ 8 556.2
+11 556.2 (shot here, so PMPS)
+2 525.6
+ 4 426.6

16th cycle at this dose. I really feel I have to up it guys, he can`t stay at these numbers. gave him f1.5 this morning, awaiting thoughts.
not much else to say. Rupert seems okay, coat beginning to lose it's shine again and he is definitely not looking as happy as he has. Ate Merrick Cowboy Cookout for breakfast.

one thing I have noticed.. he's always had runny eyes, his whole life, we 've had them checked out and no vet has truly diagnosed a problem. one vet took out a tooth thinking that was the issue, the runny/blood coloured discharge reduced for a little while but then it came back. never seems to bother him. when he was on antibiotics briefly after his recent vet visit (when he was diagnosed with DM) it cleared up quite a bit.... have seen it maybe once or twice in the past month. Yesterday, it was back. bloody looking tear down his right side of his nose. ?? I'm going to talk to the vet on Monday about scheduling visit and discussing dental again. She seems reluctant to do anything with him until he is regulated. And that, apparently, isn't going well.

going btb. too sad to face the day just yet.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496

Rupert, please come down, while your mommy sleeps.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496

One possibility is to try L-lysine. It acts as an immune system booster.

Once Rupert clears this bounce and you're ready to increase, I would not fatten the dose. I think you need to stick with the protocol and increase by 0.25u. Fattening and shaving doses is more useful if you are zeroing in on a good dose. Rupert isn't quite there yet.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496, surely a dosecrease nowé

he`s cleared bounces in the past a LOT quicker...how long should I wait for this to clear. he can`t stay in these black numbers for too long surely??
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,surely a dosecrease now??

~O) ~O) ~O)
Chin up !

I think I heard once that runny eyes could be an indication a dental is needed. Has Rupert ever had a proper dental?

Regarding the increase - here are the details Marje provided yesterday -

The other thing is, unless he comes down into green during a cycle that he's clearing a bounce, we'd like you to increase his dose by .25u as soon as the bounce clears...that means if you get a blue PS, you can raise his dose to 1.75u.
Click to expand...

I agree with Sienne about giving L-lysine as an immune booster. I give it to BK daily (he is FIV+) and my other kitties as well.

Did you restock your supply of strips? Rupert could surprise you today 00 you never know ;-)
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3, 486

we didn't increase, everyone said to wait. I will increase toinght to 1.75, I think have to. I can't watch him fall apart like this, he's regressing to the way he was right before he was diagnosed, very quickly.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3, 486

Pip

I know this is difficult but there is a reason we suggested you wait until he clears the bounce or it has been six cycles. It's safety as well as seeing if he can settle down some if he isn't diving. He has gone from 345 to 85 in six hours before. If he clears, and comes down fast and you have increased, then you are setting him up for another dive, bounce. And he could possibly come down to unsafe numbers.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275

slowly coming down still. into the yellow at least. I got more test strips and I also got a back up meter, one of the UltraMini's so I can double check if I have my doubts.(this years horse show fund rapidly depleting, but Rupert is worth it!)

One thing I just remembered.. I dropped my original meter, really hard, on the tile floor in the kitchen on Thursday. It was working at the time and the number never went out or anything so I assumed it was still good. I don't have any test solution, pharmacy here doesn't carry it (??) says you get it free from the company itself?? anyway.. I'll use the new one and maybe double check with the old one and see if maybe (hopefully?) that might have been part of the problem. Doubtful, but who knows.

As suggested, if he hits blue at PMPS then I"ll go with the 1.75 dose (slight increase from the f1.5 I've been guessing at - JUST got half unit syringes, the pharmacist on duty today actually has a diabetic cat herself so she knew what I was looking for, and of course they were there all along.. only thing, they are 5/16 vs the 1/2 I've been using. will have to be very diligent about getting it under the skin... luckily Rupie is really good about his actual shots now) He still looks a little ragged today, not as good as he has earlier in the week but eating fine and moving fine and I tested for ketones this morning and nothing showed up.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275

Whether or not you increase is your choice. IMHO, it's not a good decision to increase. First, Rupert is bouncing off of an 85. That's good territory to be in. Second, Rupert's numbers have been steadily coming down. Depending on where his numbers are at shot time, you could be giving a dose increase on top of dropping numbers. So far, you've not had to manage low numbers. This could be a very wild ride. Again, you're the one holding the syringe. I just want you to have all of the relevant information so you are making an informed decision.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275

thanx for input Sienne, it's all appreciated. I thought he'd cleared that 85 bounce? so this is still a bounce from that one? hm.

Marjorie had suggested I go up from the f1.5 to a true 1.75....

I'll make that decision dependent on his PMPS number I think... as someone here said, if it's blue then okay to up, if not, stay with the 1.5. will agonize over it, I"m sure, later on when the time comes! stand by for usual dumb questions!
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275

hi pip!

would you take a look at his ss with me? here's what i'm seeing.

on thursday he hit that 85 smack in the middle of the day. a lovely green island (and kudos to you for testing and catching it, because it's key information here!)

he had a nice surf the rest of that day, at least 9 hours under 200. that was awesome. his liver started to react and you saw red numbers.

then either he reacted from the blues on Friday day or this is still the same bounce from thursday. saturday? yucky bouncy awful numbers. but sunday morning . . well today, he's gone steadily down. 496-486-275. i think it looks like he's clearing the bounce now.

one thing we've discussed and i think are fairly agreed on is that the high numbers in a bounce are not as damaging as the high numbers that are sustained day after day. i don't think you have as much to worry about as you would if he weren't getting insulin.

follow the instructions marje gave you to increase on the next blue preshot. looks like that might be tonight.

we all want what's best for rupert - really. if it were in his best interest for you to increase during a bounce, we would be the first people telling you to do it. as hard as it is, following the protocol is truly best for him.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275

If you could get a test at +11, that will tell us more as to whether Rupert has decided to clear the bounce.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275

will try to get a test at +11, which would be (insert groaning noises as I try to do math in my head.. cos we moved him up an hour last night, then forward fifteen this morning.. so I was going to shoot him at 6pm so.. okay. so 5pm).. so, I'll test at 5pm and then again PS.

I hear you all and I AM listening... I just still reserve the right to
754871_125.jpg


and I know you guys will always be ready to
hammer-smash.gif
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275

as sienne says, your hand holds the syringe. you are in charge. we're just trying to educate you in Diabetes on Lantus 201 so you can make informed decisions! ;-)
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275,+11-147

+11 (short by 6 minutes).... 147. good grief. 32 points an hour, slower that his past dives but I think I"m right in assuming he might bounce again tomorrow. which would mean that he's STILL bouncing so I probably need to maintain the current dose. guess I'll see where he is at PMPS and decide then. now of course I"m leaning towards staying with the current dose. if it's rising by PMPS I'll go up the .25, if it's falling or static I think I'll stay with the 1.5...make sense? thoughts/guidance appreciated as always (gawd, I'm needy huh?!)
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275,+11-147

You are doing GREAT! This is really, really hard so give yourself a break. Feline diabetes is a crazy disease. Rupert is lucky to have you as his bean. :-D
Liz
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275,+11-147

Pip, I'm glad that you're going to follow protocol. You won't regret it. Just a comment on the meters: when I am in doubt about how a meter is functioning, or whether two meters are close enough in readings, I just test them on myself rather than hunting around and then maybe having to wait for test solutions to arrive in the mail.

Have a good evening. Rupert is looking much better this evening.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert AMPS 496,+3-486, +7-275,+11-147

I tested him with both meters tonight to see, and one was 8.8 and the other 8.2 (so 147 and 158 so they were pretty close). good to have a back up one anyway.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 94. doh?!! advice please

SERIOUSLY dude??? man, he really likes to keep me jumping all over the place............definitely NO increase that's for sure. Presume protocol is to give the 1.5 and monitor closely all evening??? thoughts!!!
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 94. doh?!! advice please

do you have plenty of strips, high carb food, and are you up for monitoring tonight?

btw, he may just bounce, but you never know.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 94. doh?!! advice please

Hubby still away, I have a new thing of strips, I have high carb food, and I have no life at the moment so I"m up for testing.. if Rupie will let me! I've just fed him his usual Merrick supper.....I've never shot him quite this low.. at least not on a decreasing number...

typical! here I go from talking about wanting to increase to now pondering whether to stall! we did shoot an hour earlier yesterday so I could stall another half an hour and be back on schedule somewhat quicker than normal...
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 94. doh?!! advice please

that's what we're talking about. it's not too low to shoot, but we don't like to see dropping. can you get another test, say 15 minutes or so from the last one? repost so we can see how he's doing.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 94. doh?!! advice please

hm, think I committed another cardinal sin by letting him a bit of a snack. he didn't eat a huge amount and it is only 3% carb.... but I"ll test again in about five minutes. boy is he EVER going to be cat(2)_steam
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 94. doh?!! advice please

Pip...you fed him?????? When we stall, we don't feed. Did you see Julie's note to not feed?

The number is a very safe, shootable number. The issue is that it is a bounce-clearing, dropping number. Which means he "could" just keep going down from here even with food. I'm not a fan of stalling, personally, as often they drop a little and then come back up and then the bean shoots a number that was what the cat was at +12 anyway. But we don't know how Rupert will respond...he might come up with food; he might not.

I also want to be sure we are giving him the correct dose when you do shoot. So hang tight...no more food! ;-)
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 97. doh?!! advice please

minor error in PMPS amount, I originally put 94 and it was 97, according to the meter log.. now its 94.it's about 25 minutes since last test

so.. survey says???... go ahead and shoot and keep testing hourly?
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 97. doh?!! advice please

I'm still holding! tee hee... imagining 'the girl from Ipanema' playing in the backgrounds... :lol:
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 97. doh?!! advice please

Pip

Here are the issues, just so you know:
1. this is a really quick dropping number and shooting dropping numbers can be dangerous because we really don't know where he'll go; you don't have enough low number data yet to know how he responds.

2. we now need to be cautious because, even with 3%, he could spike. Some cats are very carb sensitive....we don't really know alot about Rupie yet.

I think you need to be cautious with this one until you know more about how he reacts. I think you should retest 30 mins after the last test and see where he is. We want him coming up without food so you
may have to stall a bit longer. Are you able to stall and still get back on track 15 mins at a time ...this time it will be opposite of how you were moving him.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 97. doh?!! advice please

no problem stalling and retracking.... I'll retest at 7pm, that will be half an hour past 'regular' shot time.. we shot him at 5:30 last night due to the HIGH number, so he got his am at 5:45 and I was planning on 6pm for PM... so technically wil be an hour past. I don't have to be at work till 9am in the morning so I have loads of leeway.

prefer the cautious approach at this stage. I was scanning my limited data and I really don't have enough to tell what he'll do. he DOES have a history of massive dives from the big numbers... so... I"ll be back in a bit!
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 97. doh?!! advice please

I'm still holding! tee hee... imagining 'the girl from Ipanema' playing in the backgrounds...
Click to expand...

Now I won't be able to get that song out of my head tonight. ;-)

Whenever you shoot...it's going to be your f1.5u ok? No increase.

And don't shoot until we tell you to ;-) ;-)

ETA; I'll be back at 7 your time....less than 15 minutes. Just post when you get the number please. Oh...and the 97 is +12...not PMPS. That shows you are stalling.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 97. stalling a bit

no, i got ya definitely NO increase! was actually wondering if a BCS might be the way to go! will await further instructions....(how about Mission Impossible music in your head now?)
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 97. stalling a bit

that was a wrestling match. he is NOT amused. ... and.. the score is...75. sigh.

assume stall some more???
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMBG 97. now at 74

A BCS is a dose reduction and a late shot is a dose reduction. It would be a veritable double whammy on the shed.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMPS 97. stalling a bit

Yes....keep stalling. No food.

We don't stall and shoot a BCS to answer your question. A BCS would be more if you got a lower number than you've shot but I'd d not want to stall. I would not have recommended a BCS o n a dropping number because of the cumulative nature of lantus and the shed.

Ok...so was this your +13? If you could please give the numbers in that format so we know where you are. We don't stall all night ;-) please retest 30 mins after the last one and post.

While you are waiting could you please update your subject line. Thanks, Pip.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMBG 97. now at 74

ok. I get it. so now that we ARE stalling, we shouldn't reduce the eventual dose.....will retest at 7:45.....
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, PMBG 97. now at 74

Pip

Your subject line should be +12 97 + 13 74

Or whatever test that was. PMBG means you skipped. :-D
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, +12, 97. +13, 74, +13.45=118

Ssshhhooooooooooottttttt! And a +1 and +2 please. I'll be waiting.

Shoot current dose f1.5
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, +12, 97. +13, 74, +13.45=118

Good job! And thanks for fixing subject line. See you in an hour...and you fed him after shot, right :-D
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, +12, 97. +13, 74, +13.45=118

yes, he had a mix of snappy tom (0 carb) and a table spoon of fancy feast turkey/gravy.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert ,+11-147, +12, 97. +13, 74, +13.45=118

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Did you restock your supply of strips? Rupert could surprise you today 00 you never know ;-)
Click to expand...

:cool: :cool: :cool:
I missed all the excitement here tonight. . .
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert +12, 97,+13, 74 PMPS=118, +1, 138

ok, so +1 and he's up to 138, but that could be food induced. He is SUPREMELY annoyed with me, lots of growling and claw action for his ear poke. +2 will be entertaining. He seems totally fine, other than miffed with me! Am thinking I should test him around midnight, which would be + 5 which is when he typically hits his nadir....could be a long night.. thanx for the support.
 
Re: 03/04 Rupert +12, 97,+13, 74 PMPS=118, +1, 138

oh yeah. and we forgot to tell you that sandy is psychic. :-D

i had to run out but you had plenty of coverage for the Rupert show. good job shooting!
 
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