03/01 Frankie AMBG 243; 349 +3

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Dan and Frankie

Member Since 2013
Frankie tested at 238 before food around 7am and 344 after food at 9am. I am still trying to figure our if I should start on insulin, or if the consensus is that she can be diet regulated. I have lantus ready to go, just need some advice.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Dan

Mel(Momma of Muse) will be along shortly to look and on you and give you some help. She has a lot of experience with diabetic cats as she has two right now. Good luck with Frankie.

Terri
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Hi Dan!

First let me say that I am not as experienced as other members, but I will give you my two cents, anyway.

It is hard to say without having any data. I suggest that you run a curve, or at least get food time, AMBG and PMBG, numbers and a +6 to see what Frankie's normal cycle without insulin is like. It is advisable to start with a very low dose and monitor closely for the first few days to see how your cat responds to insulin. The way dosing works, as far as I know, is that you hold a dose for at least 3 days and then adjust upward or downward depending on the nadir (+6, or 6 hours since eating.)

I see you don't have anything on your SS yet. Here are the directions for using the Spreadsheet. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130

But to answer your question, I would not give a shot until you know more about Frankie, and once you have some data on her, start with a very low dose (like 0.25u).
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Cortney is exactly right first we need to see what your girl will do on her own without insulin so we know if she has any function to her pancreas at all. Basically what I have done with all of mine (I adopted mine as untreated diabetics) is I run a curve before starting any insulin...or in simply terms I test them before food, then an hour after they eat, then wait another 2 hours and test again...If they have a sputtering or working pancreas they should spike with food, then the pancreas should kick in, and produce insulin on its own to counter the food and they should drop back down again.

While she is still in what we would consider diabetic numbers she really isn't that high compared to where most of us start out...Maxwell was 485 and Autumn was 528. So with that said I would not give today, but see if she has any of her own insulin production at all and then go from there, if she stays in the mid to high 200s I would start her on .25u and hold that dose for about 3-5 days, then either during that time get a lot of spot checks in or run a full curve on a day off.

I knw you have a lot on your plate right now with babies on the way and a young son so we will try to make this as painless as possible for all concerned.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Where should I continue to post to avoid confusion?

I haven't put in numbers on the SS because we have not started a dose yet. Here are the numbers I have from the past 3 days so far. I have been testing before feeding wet and about 2-3 hours after feeding wet.

02/26 PM: Before Meal 467, after meal 526

02/27 AM: Before Meal 285, After Meal 417; PM: Before Meal 314, After Meal 349 (Not sure how much she ate)

02/28 AM: Before Meal 238, After Meal 344

It is defiantly trending down so maybe we should wait?
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Give her one more day to see where she goes, but if she doesn't drop much lower than she is right now then I would start her on a very low dose of like .25 and hold it. With Lantus it takes about 3 days to fill the shed, basically it builds up time released crystals under the skin, but in the beginning only a few of those melt to bring down the BGs, so you have to find the balance of insulin going in and that which is available for the cat to use to bring down the BGs.

It helps to think of it like filling a funnel, if it isn't enough then the level at the top of the funnel drops, if it is too much the funnel overflows (hypo) but when you hit the right balance the level at the top of the funnel stays consistant, while there is still water flowing out the bottom...Make sense?

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Dan, you can post the numbers to the SS even though she's not on insulin yet. When a cat is not on insulin, we say AMBG or PMBG (morning blood glucose and evening blood glucose) as opposed to AMPS or PMPS (morning pre-shot and evening pre-shot.)

You enter the date, and then the AMPS/AMBG value is the time you feed Frankie. +1 is an hour after food, all the way up to +11, which is 11 hours after food. PMPS, or PMBG, should be exactly 12 hours since breakfast. You write the value in the AMPS box, and thus begin record for the new cycle. Lantus is a 12 hour insulin, which is why we shoot twice a day, 12 hours apart. "U", which is the box after AMPS and PMPS refers to the units of insulin shot. If you are not shooting yet, you can just leave this box blank, or write NS (no shot.) We use the +number system because we are all in different time zones and feed at different times. Using +1 (1 hour since food/shot) lets us know that the value entered refers to one hour since breakfast.

For testing and feeding (whether shooting insulin or not) is as follows: Test, Shoot, (or don't shoot) and then Feed.

There is a section on the spreadsheet for remarks, too. In this section, you can write whatever notes you need to. You can take a look at mine, or anyone else's SS in our signatures, to get an idea of how it works. I've added sections for Breakfast and Dinner so I can keep track of what Kismet eats. This is optional :)
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

MommaOfMuse said:
Give her one more day to see where she goes, but if she doesn't drop much lower than she is right now then I would start her on a very low dose of like .25 and hold it. With Lantus it takes about 3 days to fill the shed, basically it builds up time released crystals under the skin, but in the beginning only a few of those melt to bring down the BGs, so you have to find the balance of insulin going in and that which is available for the cat to use to bring down the BGs.

It helps to think of it like filling a funnel, if it isn't enough then the level at the top of the funnel drops, if it is too much the funnel overflows (hypo) but when you hit the right balance the level at the top of the funnel stays consistant, while there is still water flowing out the bottom...Make sense?

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
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Yes that makes sense. In the mean time, is the testing schedule I am keeping sufficient? Should I be testing her an hour after she eats and what if I place food and it takes her time to eat it? Should I bee separating her from Mollie when I feed? (I have been feeding them together since last night)
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Oh and you can stay over here if you like, we aren't always terribly active throughout the day, but I do try to check in first thing in the morning and then again in the evenings.

The other thing is once you start insulin if you do, is pick a time that you are pretty sure you will be able to give the shots consistantly 12 hours apart, it isn't the end of the world if life happens and you have to shoot early or late but you want a time that works well MOST of the time to have them 12 hours apart.

You don't need to seperate them I feed all 14 of mine together...yes 14! only 2 are diabetic the rest are just plain nuts...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Courtney and Kismet said:
Dan, you can post the numbers to the SS even though she's not on insulin yet. When a cat is not on insulin, we say AMBG or PMBG (morning blood glucose and evening blood glucose) as opposed to AMPS or PMPS (morning pre-shot and evening pre-shot.)
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I forgot to mention that it would be a good idea to change your subject line on your first post. Right now it says "Frankie AMPS 314," but since you are not shooting insulin, you would write AMBG instead. This way, we know Frankie is not currently receiving insulin. :)
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Courtney and Kismet said:
Courtney and Kismet said:
Dan, you can post the numbers to the SS even though she's not on insulin yet. When a cat is not on insulin, we say AMBG or PMBG (morning blood glucose and evening blood glucose) as opposed to AMPS or PMPS (morning pre-shot and evening pre-shot.)
Click to expand...


I forgot to mention that it would be a good idea to change your subject line on your first post. Right now it says "Frankie AMPS 314," but since you are not shooting insulin, you would write AMBG instead. This way, we know Frankie is not currently receiving insulin. :)
Click to expand...

Done :smile:
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Right now your testing is simply gathering data so any test you get in whenever is fine, even if you are just sitting around in the evening cuddling with her, slip a test in. Once you start insulin then times become important. Over here we are a little more "relaxed" than the TR group, but in general you will want to always get preshots, a midcycle (somewhere between shots) just to see how they are trending, and a "lights out" or the last test of the day before turning out the lights to go to bed so you know she is safe overnight.

Then when time allows get a curve in to see if her dose needs to go up or down. Lantus is adjusted off the nadir or lowest point in the cycle, with Lantus most cats that is about +6 (6 hours after injection) but some cats nadir earlier and some later.

Now my Autumn's spreadsheet isn't a good example for a Lantus cat since she is on Levemir which while it is similiar it does work slightly different in that it has a later onset and a much later nadir, in Autumn's case usually right before her next shot is do.

The other word from the wise and trust me it is easier said than done in the beginning is don't react to a higher than usual preshot it is just one number, you will base all dose adjustments on the nadir, not the preshots.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Great, did you see my post on explaining how to use the spread sheet? If you can, go ahead and fill it in for the last few days that you've been testing.

Mel suggested that you run a curve. To run a curve, you get a test every 2 hours for one cycle. The cycle you choose doesn't matter, it can be either am or pm, though some cats tend to have lower numbers at night for some reason.

A curve works like this:

AMBG (the time you test right before feeding)
+2 --- two hours after breakfast
+4--- four hours after breakfast
+6--- six hours after breakfast
so on and so forth all the way up to the PMBG.

Lantus is a 12 hour insulin. For most cats, it onsets somewhere between 1-3 hours after the shot. Most cats, thus, are higher at +1/+2 that their pre-shot value because the insulin has not kicked in yet, and eating causes BG to spike. Most cats hit their nadir (the lowest point in their cycle) half way through (usually at +6). This is why we base the dose on the nadir. If your cat is below 50 at +6, she earns a reduction in the dose. That's why it is so important to get mid-cycle spot checks to see how Frankie responds to insulin. While most cats hit their lowest point at +6, every cat is different, and sometimes your kitty can change from day to day. Nadirs can occur anytime between +4 and +8 in some cats. Once you get some more data on Frankie, you will see where she usually drops lowest.

The reason you would want to run a curve before starting insulin is, as Mel pointed out, to see if Frankie's pancreas is working at all by itself. She should naturally follow a similar cycle as cats do on insulin. She should be a little higher just after eating, and then should gradually go down until the nadir, and then after the nadir, slowly go back up.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

SS Updated... Anything missing? How do I keep track of how much food shes eating when I feed them together? They like to try each other's food :lol: Right now I am feeding them 1/2 a can of Friskies Pate (non seafood versions) in the AM and PM. I will be feeding AM at 6, so I guess PM will be 6 as well, (Mollie will not like that as she starts begging around 3:30 and usually I give in around 4:30) but her normal time to eat is 5. I dont function at 5 AM, so 6 is going to have to work.... But it seems that if I start Insulin, I will have to test again in 6 hours, so if I give a shot at 6 pm I have to test at 12AM? I'm dead beat tired at 9, so I guess I'll have to set an alarm.... guess I will be getting my self used to the twin babies schedule sooner than I anticipated :sad:
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I will stay up late tonight and run a curve on her. Again, I am needing to shift my focus to work as I haven't gotten anything done today and I am already behind. Thank you everyone, I'll check in periodically and reight before I start the curve (about 5pm MST).
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

In relaxed lantus, you don't have to do a lot of testing in the PM. You would just get the PMBG/PMPS value, and then one more test in before "lights out." It would be a good idea to get the +6 during the am cycle, though, if possible, or somewhere close to it (+4 or +5). If your cat is lower in the early part of the cycle, then you will want to feed her MC or HC (medium carb or high carb) food to get her numbers back up, because if she starts descending too quickly, she may be at risk for hypo. This is only a concern when they are on insulin, though. If you take a look at Kismet's SS, you will see that his BG started dipping early on in the cycle, I fed him to keep his numbers up until the nadir when he would naturally start to climb. As I said, if your cat goes below 50 at any point, then they earn a reduction in dose. Since you're not shooting yet, these are things you don't need to concern yourself with just yet. It's a steep learning curve, but that is why we shoot low and go slow :mrgreen:
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Your SS looks great.

Since you're not on insulin yet, running a curve isn't imperative. If you need to get work done and sleep, no worries. Take care of yourself. The weekend is fast approaching, so if that is better for you, then perhaps wait to run your curve until you can. Then we can talk about insulin :)
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Courtney and Kismet said:
Your SS looks great.

Since you're not on insulin yet, running a curve isn't imperative. If you need to get work done and sleep, no worries. Take care of yourself. The weekend is fast approaching, so if that is better for you, then perhaps wait to run your curve until you can. Then we can talk about insulin :)
Click to expand...

Tonight is actually best for me as my wife is out of town on business and once Jake goes to bed (about 7:30), the house is quite. I need to get caught up on work, so it will be a good time for me to do so.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Well I will tell you how it works at my house..Morning starts at 6:20 am...I stagger out of bed then, take dog out, test Autumn at 6:45am, after bring Sir Bark-a-Lot back in.. Then everyone eats at 7am and while Autumn is eating she gets her insulin. Now I'm home all day so I test at 1pm when everyone but the dog gets lunch, then test again at 6:45 pm feed everyone, give Autumn her insulin, then at 10pm I test one last time, set down frozen food for everyone and toddle off to bed.

Before when I was working away from home I got the am and pm preshots and then ran a full curve on the days off but would try for spot checks before leaving the house and again when I got home. As well as getting that last test before going to bed. The only real time you need the nadir is when looking to adjust the dose, so the rest of the midcycle tests can be when you can catch them just to see how they are trending, and actually sometimes tell you more than always trying for the nadir, like do they drop fast in the beginning and then surf or do they scoot back up quickly after +6 etc.

Now with TR they tend to test a lot and constantly try to catch the nadir but that is because they have a more aggressive protocol than we do here, which is why we start lower and raise slower. Over here we try for regulation first and then if the cat is responding well, then try for remission.

Regulation is considered to be preshots under 250 with a nadir around or below 100 but not lower than 40.
Remission is the cat staying in normal range 40-120 without insulin for 14 days.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Great. And if you can't get every 2 hours, that's okay, just get in as many tests as you can.

As far as keeping track of what Frankie eats, can you feed her separately? Are your kitties free fed (have access to food throughout the day?) One way to manage food intake is to take up the bowl an hour after feeding. Many lantus users don't allow free feeding, and instead, have timed snacks. If you're not around during the day to put out food, you can look into timed feeders or leaving out foodcycles (make frozen food in an ice cube tray.) Since insulin starts to wane after the nadir, most people on the board don't let their kitties have any food after the nadir.

As far as food goes, you just want to make sure that your cat eats at the AMPS and PMPS times, especially when on insulin. If your cat is free-fed, it is harder to ensure they eat when you want them to.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I am self employed and work from home, but often have appointments during the day (I usually set appointments starting at 9am). Sometimes I am out all day on appointments and sometimes I am working all day from home so my schedule is pretty volatile, but I should be able to manage it as Frankie does not seem that she will be in need of TR. After the babies are born My wife will be home and once Frankie and I are more comfortable with testing (and if needed, shooting) I will teach her what to do, although I am hopeful for a possible diet regulated kitty, or full remission by then. AND I can't wit to take her back in for a check up to show the vet... (I'll be nice). Do you think I will need a baby scale? I was thinking about getting one this weekend.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Courtney and Kismet said:
Great. And if you can't get every 2 hours, that's okay, just get in as many tests as you can.

As far as keeping track of what Frankie eats, can you feed her separately? Are your kitties free fed (have access to food throughout the day?) One way to manage food intake is to take up the bowl an hour after feeding. Many lantus users don't allow free feeding, and instead, have timed snacks. If you're not around during the day to put out food, you can look into timed feeders or leaving out foodcycles (make frozen food in an ice cube tray.) Since insulin starts to wane after the nadir, most people on the board don't let their kitties have any food after the nadir.

As far as food goes, you just want to make sure that your cat eats at the AMPS and PMPS times, especially when on insulin. If your cat is free-fed, it is harder to ensure they eat when you want them to.
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They used to be free fed Dry Nutro Max Cat Indoor. And Mollie would have 1/2 a can of Friskies in the eve. They are now getting 1/2 a can each in the AM and again at PM, but I am leaving it out because they don't always finish it right away. I can separate Frankie (I was keeping her in the bathroom when I was feeding) But I felt it was stressing her out too much
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I work from home as well ...well sort of, right now changing professions so that I can be at home more, told the last job where to shove it a couple years back...lol

You really don't need to keep track of how much she is eating as long as she is eating, but keeping track of her weight is an excellent way to see if she is eating enough. Like I said I feed all of mine together, except for 4 that will scarf and barf everyone else's food.

A baby scale is great and you can have it serve double duty, keep track of the twins and Frankie all in one. :-D

It also depends on how Mollie and Frankie eat, some cats are grazers and some are hoovers, all of mine are hooves so leftovers is an unknown word here thus the timed feedings here. But it is perfectly fine to leave food down for your girls, just want to pick it up two hours before shot times if you do need to go on insulin so you get a true number that isn't influenced by food.

With Autumn I have the alarms on my cell phone set for test times, but I don't sweat it if I'm away from home and miss one. My husband bless his heart would faint if he had to test and shoot...for a man with as many tattoos as he has you would think he would be better with needles.. :lol: But he is just too tender hearted when it comes to the furry babies (thus why we have 14), to be able to test and shoot. So that is up to me.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I'd like to add something to your, already overwhelming, amount of information. :lol:

It might be better on Frankie, if you break up her 2 large meals into 4 smaller meals. It seems that larger meals have a tendency to tax the, already not working well, pancreas. Just as human diabetics are instructed to eat multiple smaller meals, it helps kitties too. :thumbup The pancreas doesn't have to work as hard to counteract the food spikes. Since, right now, you are waiting to see how well her pancreas can work on it's own, it could really help her out. :smile: Might be something to consider. :smile:

Being as new as I am, I don't chime in much, except for the little things that I have learned, like testing and diet.

Big hugz! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I also leave Kismet's food down throughout the day. He doesn't scarf it all at once, but usually eats at least half to 2/3 at AMPS and PMPS times. It is usually all gone by +5 though. As Mel said, you just want to make sure you don't get food influenced AM and PM numbers, and if you start insulin, want to make sure she has some food in her system when you shoot.

Good luck tonight with the curve! I am keeping my paws crossed that Frankie will be one of the lucky ones who can be regulated by low carb food alone. Even if she needs to go on insulin, it may just be for a short period of time. When Kismet was diagnosed in September, he was only on insulin for 2 weeks before going into remission. Just changing his food from dry kibble to Fancy Feast wet was enough to lower his BG to normal, healthy values. Unfortunately, his BG has gone back up recently and we've had to start him on insulin again. If Frankie ends up needing insulin, it doesn't mean that she will need to be on it forever. The important thing is just to make sure she is healthy and her BG values are as normal as possible, whether on the juice or off.

Do you have ketostix to test for ketones? That's another thing to add to your kit if you don't have them yet. I try to test Kismet at least once a week, or more often when I can. I wait for him to go into the litterbox and use a spoon to catch a sample of urine, but there are other methods you can use. It is more of a challenge when you have a multiple cat household. I don't know what the recs are for ketone testing in Relaxed Lantus, but in TR, they test frequently.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

nckitties3 said:
I'd like to add something to your, already overwhelming, amount of information. :lol:

It might be better on Frankie, if you break up her 2 large meals into 4 smaller meals. It seems that larger meals have a tendency to tax the, already not working well, pancreas. Just as human diabetics are instructed to eat multiple smaller meals, it helps kitties too. :thumbup The pancreas doesn't have to work as hard to counteract the food spikes. Since, right now, you are waiting to see how well her pancreas can work on it's own, it could really help her out. :smile: Might be something to consider. :smile:

Being as new as I am, I don't chime in much, except for the little things that I have learned, like testing and diet.

Big hugz! :YMHUG:
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This is possible, but it may not always be at the same time (I am trying to see what works for everyone here) I'm trying to also figure out how, if ever, we will be able to go on a vacation (since we have baby twins coming, probably never) I am fortunate enough to have an animal lover (addicted to rescues) as a neighbor, but I want to make sure this is manageable by someone, if we have to leave for a few days So far Frankie's doing well, so I'm not going to make any drastic changes ATM,
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Oh thanks Courtney yes you will want to be testing for ketones as well, although no higher than she is, I wouldn't expect her to have them.
The recipe for ketones is not enough insulin + not enough food + infection somewhere.

Usually around here if the cat isn't running in super high numbers (over 300) we don't test for them that often, with the range that Frankie is in right now if you can catch her in the LB once a week you should be good to go. Especially if she has all 5Ps in place (purring, peeing, pooping, playing and preening). If she starts acting off in any way or stops eating you will want to test for ketones more often.

Speaking of poking a kitty...time to go poke Autumn

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Do you have ketostix to test for ketones? That's another thing to add to your kit if you don't have them yet. I try to test Kismet at least once a week, or more often when I can. I wait for him to go into the litterbox and use a spoon to catch a sample of urine, but there are other methods you can use. It is more of a challenge when you have a multiple cat household. I don't know what the recs are for ketone testing in Relaxed Lantus, but in TR, they test frequently.
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Not yet... on the list
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

If you have an animal lover and a rescue addict living next door just teach them to test and shoot if you need to, many of us either travel with the diabetic kitty or hire a pet sitter and they do fine with twice a day testing and shots. What a lot of folks do is lower the dose slightly when away so there is no risk of the kitty going too low.

With 15 animals here vacation is merely a distant dream...lol or as we call it...an evening at the movies...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I try to catch Lucian every day for ketone testing, only because he has run so high. I rarely get it every day, but I try. :-D I usually manage every other day.

I'm lucky, Lucian always 'goes' with his back to the door of the littler box, so I just keep the lid off now and sneak up behind him and put the strip into the urine stream. Once he's started going, he can't very well 'turn it off', so I get the test. :thumbup

But I have to make sure I 'hear' him going, if I jump the gun, he'll bail! :lol:

That was one of the 1st things I went for, when he wouldn't eat this morning, with him being almost 500. Of course, 500 hasn't been abnormal for him, he is unregulated and came home from the vet at over 700. He's been a tough one. :sad: But we're working on it. cat_pet_icon

Vacation? What's that? :lol: Being unemployed at the moment, I guess I'm ON vacation. :lol: Lord knows, it will probably be years before I have to worry about that. :o
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Back from store.... I have Karo Syrup, FF with Gravy (i figure the gravy lovers was overkill) for Hypo Treatment if needed. I also got some ketostix and a 6 pack of Michelob Ultra for tonight :-D I also stocked up on the non seafood Friskies Pate as it was on sale... totally forgot the sunflower seeds I need for my quitting smoking adventure (no cigs since 1/1/13, started with 4mg gum, now on the patch and working my way down the steps) But Gah!! I need my seeds man!! @-)
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

You are a brave man...a pregnant wife, a new sugarcat, and quitting smoking!!! Good luck with that one, I was just about there on the smoking last summer than everything went to h*ll in a handbasket when my 17 year old best boy kitty got dxed with cancer, lost him on Nov 14th, lost my mom on Black Friday after Thanksgiving but got the call she was failing the same night we said goodbye to Onyx, and then just lost my mom's sister the day before Valentine's day so right back to smoking a pack a day. <sigh>

The patch works great if you can use it, I can't I get big red welts that last for days since they changed over to the clear plastic ones, when I quit many years ago I used the patch but then they were flesh colored and more like the bandaid material. Can't drink beer either, but never met a bottle of whiskey I didn't like :lol:

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

When I quit, I used the electronic (e-cigs). There are several different brands, but I like the infinitis the best. It's real nicotine, and the vapor looks like real smoke, too.

You sure do have a lot on your plate. My dear grandfather had a great expression for how all chaos happens at once: "the wind blew, and the sh** blew, and I couldn't see for a month or two" :lol: When Kismet was dx, we had a LOT going on too. And now since he has come back from remission, it has been another s***storm. ohmygod_smile

Hope you get your sunflower seeds! My crutch was lollipops.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Courtney and Kismet said:
When I quit, I used the electronic (e-cigs). There are several different brands, but I like the infinitis the best. It's real nicotine, and the vapor looks like real smoke, too.

You sure do have a lot on your plate. My dear grandfather had a great expression for how all chaos happens at once: "the wind blew, and the sh** blew, and I couldn't see for a month or two" :lol: When Kismet was dx, we had a LOT going on too. And now since he has come back from remission, it has been another s***storm. ohmygod_smile

Hope you get your sunflower seeds! My crutch was lollipops.
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I guess I just like to keep things interesting ;-)
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

At least the babies are a cause for celebration... And it's good chaos :lol: wow, I read in your other thread that your vet recommended putting Frankie down. I am so glad you found us and are giving her a fighting chance! I guess another item to add to your to-do list is find another vet. There are quite a few lantus users in Arizona, so maybe someone can recommend someone to you.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

The Vet recommended extremely expensive hospitalization and/or coming in daily for tests and extremely expensive DRY food they have on their shelf (DM). I had to make the call whether to spend thousands of dollars on my cat or put her down. With twins on the way, the costs were out of the question.... soo glad I waited and did the research and founf you guys :-D
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

I'm pretty sure you are going to need to start her on insulin since she just isn't dropping low enough on her own, and the sooner we get her down into those normal numbers the better the chance of her going into remission. Since you are already planning on being up with her tonight, if you want to start her tonight I would start her at no more than .25 or .5u or wait for tomorrow morning and start her then whichever works best for you.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

MommaOfMuse said:
I'm pretty sure you are going to need to start her on insulin since she just isn't dropping low enough on her own, and the sooner we get her down into those normal numbers the better the chance of her going into remission. Since you are already planning on being up with her tonight, if you want to start her tonight I would start her at no more than .25 or .5u or wait for tomorrow morning and start her then whichever works best for you.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
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Tonight is best for me... I just had to run out and get lancettes.... Should I test her again before I do this?
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

You can just so you have a starting point for her, and use that as your pmps number but maybe make a note in the comments of when she ate last inreference to to when you shoot. So if she ate at 6pm for example, and you shoot at say 7pm then in the notes put ate 1/2 can of friskies an hour before pmps test.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

MommaOfMuse said:
You can just so you have a starting point for her, and use that as your pmps number but maybe make a note in the comments of when she ate last inreference to to when you shoot. So if she ate at 6pm for example, and you shoot at say 7pm then in the notes put ate 1/2 can of friskies an hour before pmps test.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
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Just wanted to make sure you know she got a shot of Covenia at the Vet on Saturday. The vet said it is a long lasting antibiotic, so I don't know if that would affect the advice of starting injection. I am really nervous, so I would like confirmation on the .25 dose and if I should test her again before and when I should test her again
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Answered you in PM but yes that does make a difference, lets hold off a couple more days and see if she will continue to drop on her own since she is still trending downward.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Edited my comment. Lucian was on both within 2 days of each other, Insulin on the 1st day and Convenia on the 2nd. That's worrisome. :sad:
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

nckitties3 said:
To the best of my knowledge, the antibiotic wouldn't make a difference as to when you start the insulin. Lucian got both on the same day and it was his 1st shot of insulin.

Mel should be back shortly, she has to shoot Autumn about now, I think or at least feed the zoo. :-D

Did you decide on the time frame for her shots, which would be most convenient for you?
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When/If we do shots, I', planning on 6 am, 6 pm It's the most logical for our schedule

Right now we are holding for a few days and testing because of the covenia...per the SS I tested her at +1, so I'll test at +3 and +5... does that make sense? or should I test aqgain at +2 and then do +4 and +6?
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

I saw Mel's answer and was surprised. Vet started Lucian on insulin and gave him Convenia the next day. Hope it doesn't cause a problem with my boy.

My testing times change about every day, although I try to get a +6 between shots. But I know your trying to get data, so any time should be fine I would think. You're running a curve right? They are usually every 2 hrs. I doubt it would matter much if you went 1,3,5,7,9 or 2,4,6,8.

Whatcha think Mel?
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

While she isn't on insulin there is really no set time to test, it is all just data to see how she is doing on her own. If she doesn't go below 250 by this Saturday I would go ahead and start her on a very low dose...but you are going to want to start her right at her normal shot time to make it the easiest on you all, otherwise you have to move her back slowly. Once you do, if you do you will want to test, feed and shoot all within about 15 minutes of each other.

Like with Autumn her shot time is 7am so I test at 6:45, get the food ready for the zoo, and then while everyone is eating shoot. Autumn doesn't even look up because her face is buried in the dish. So if you are planning on Frankie's shot times to be 6a/6p you will want to test her at 5:45, get the shot ready, feed her and shoot while she is eating. As low as she is I don't think I would start her on anymore than .25u. If that isn't enough we can always take her up, but you can't get it back out of the cat if its too much once it is shot.

To shoot a .25u you just have to kind of eyeball it half-way inbetween the .5u and the zero line. The very first line, closest to the needle is the zero line.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Okay... This curve I am running... is testing til +6 going to be enough? Otherwise I might as well wait until tomorrow to run a curve. I should be home most of the day, or only need to run out an hour an a half at most.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

MommaOfMuse said:
If she doesn't go below 250 by this Saturday
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She has already been below 250 this morning (238) I don't know if that matters, but just wanted to bring it up in case it does.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

OT.... does this forum have a mobile device app? I have Tapatalk, but I can find it there... Just wondering because I'm going to be running around the house the rest of the eve and wanted to be able to check in.
 
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