01/21 Vyktor AMPS 292 +6 284 PMPS 358 DOSE & FS QU

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Vyktors Mum

Member Since 2011
When I came home at lunchtime yesterday Vyktor came to the door to greet me (like he used to pretty much everyday pre diabetes) but he was licking his lips so I think he just happened to be up eating when I got there. However, when I got home from work last night (a bit later than usual) there he was at the door with purry greetings :-D Big change from where we were earlier in the week!

I'm thinking that Vyktor's due a 0.25 increase sometime very soon. Probably you're all sleeping so I won't get an answer in time for tonight's shot but maybe we're not quite due anyway.

As far as the QLD protocoI is concerned I think he's in the nadirs below 200 but peaks greater than 200 category now which calls for a 0.25 dose increase after 5-7 days. I may be wrong even about him belonging in that catergory because he's had more nadirs over 200 than under but I'm thinking the safest approach is to look at the lowest results - is that correct?

So if he falls into that catogory we have now been 7 days on this dose and it's time for an increase. However we had one occasion (PMPS on 01/17) where his PS was below 200 (it was 109) and I did a BCS of 2.0 instead of 2.25 so should I in fact be waiting until 5-7 days from that before increasing?

Those thoughts are based on the increasing the dose phase but I see that in phase 3 of that protocol, the holding the dose phase, the protocol just says to increase by 0.25 if nadirs are above 200 but doesn't given any advice about if they're sometimes over and sometimes under or how long you should wait since a prior increase.

I am also looking at the modified version general guidelines which say, in reference to increasing the dose, just to hold the dose for 3-5 days if nadirs are less than 200 but to increase after 3 days if nadirs are more than 200 but less than 300.

We had a very nasty bounce starting PM of 01/18 followed by a flat pink cycle (does that cycle still count as part of the bounce?) So if I start my counting from that point we are only 2-2 1/2 days.

I am trying very hard to work it out for myself (although I imagine I'll still be seeking confirmation for the foreseeable future even if I do think I know the answer!) and I'm guessing that following either protocol is fine at any particular point in time but I'm still confused about what the answer is :? . I'm thinking that it's clear that he needs 0.25 more juice just not sure about when this should be added.

Also we had a possible partial fur shot last night, just to confuse the issue a bit further!

Advice most appreciated and please feel free to tell me if any of my thinking is not right, I'm not a sensitive petal about such things and the only way I'm going to learn is if people tell me when I've got it wrong.

My other question is about fur shots. Again tonight when I petted him after his shot and rubbed up and down his side (where I had shot) I fancied I could feel a little wetness I had buried my face in the spot straight after the shot and couldn't smell the insulin (probably I don't have the best sense of smell since I smoke) but I could definitely smell it on my hand after I had rubbed him (so could he because he drew back when I offered him his treat with that hand). Unlike last night there was no twisting from him and I watched the shot and am pretty confident it all went in. I'm wondering whether that does mean I've done a partial fur shot or whether there is another explanation, e.g. there was a drip on the end of the needle that went on his skin before the needle went in or a drop expelled itself back out of the shot hole or something???

Yesterday: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=61542
 
Serryn:

I'm seeing a couple things. One is that he seems to bounce off blue and he did get into blue last night....he may have gone lower than the 184. Based on that, I wouldn't increase him yet.

I do wonder if he could use a bit more insulin but I cannot recommend that you increase him during a bounce. We'll need to find a good time for you to take him up a bit.

Normally, if you know you've done a fur shot, then you do start counting cycles over again. Since he came down, I'm not so sure that you did give him a fur shot (even partial) last night. As for this morning....not sure. BUT...I have had
insulin from along side the syringe drip on Gracie's fur and leave an odor so it's possible.

I hope this helps. I'm going to also get some other eyes on Vyktor's SS. With his history of DKA, I think there is room to take him up but for tonight...how about just shooting the regular dose?
 
i know you're in a hurry to shoot so i'll keep this brief...
hold the dose. the cycle count starts over after a BCS or fur shot. we don't know if vyktor would have earned a reduction if you had shot a full dose instead of shooting a BCS dose on 1/17 (PM cycle). it may turn out that an increase is needed, but if you increase now you run the risk of unknowingly taking him over dose.


oops... i see marje posted while i was typing. :oops:
 
Thanks Marje I have 5 mins to go and had decided I would increase, glad you got here in time! Through last night he was flat pink sitting at around 340 so I'm npow guessing that is considered bounce action too. Gotta shoot now - the regular dose
 
And Jill, you were posting while I was posting to thank Marje. Does this mean that with another potential partial FS last night the count starts all over.

Just shot his regular dose, now updating his ss for last night and this morning's pink
 
Vyktors Mum said:
And Jill, you were posting while I was posting to thank Marje. Does this mean that with another potential partial FS last night the count starts all over.

Just shot his regular dose, now updating his ss for last night and this morning's pink
if you're convinced it was a fur shot then yes, the cycle count would start over. however, there are exceptions to every rule. with what i'm seeing on vyktor's ss i would start the cycle count over after the BCS dose because of the history of DKA. that's just what i would do if vyktor were mine. others may have different opinions.
 
I think what our goal with Vyktor should be is to try and get you to learn to shoot lower.

If you notice, you shot a BCS but he still got down into blue. Would he have come down more? We don't know but you have the tools to handle it if he does.

I know that is your first blue PS and the lowest number and the first time is always scary. Hopefully one of us can be around to help you shoot the full dose the next time he comes down to a blue PS (or green).

I say the above with caution: as we discussed before, there is the concern for shooting a dropping number; in that case, I'd stall and catch him as he comes up with a full dose.
 
Hi Serryn,
Good advice that you just got. I just want to chime in to say that it is very possible for a drop of insulin to run down the side of the needle after shooting. Sometimes it is there already, before you begin to shoot, and stays on the skin while the rest goes in. Sometimes you pull out the needle too quickly and there is a drop left in the syringe. If you wipe off the needle with a small piece of paper towel before you shoot, you can minimize the problem. Also, if you count to 10 while giving the shot, you can be more certain that all of the insulin got in.

As you may know, Rusty is a long-haired kitty and I am an expert at giving fur shots!! :lol:

Have a good evening, or have a good morning!

Ella & Rusty
 
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