09/06 Mami Cat | AMPS 278, +2 116, +4 75

[Clarice & Mami Cat]

Previous post

Last August days were a blessing.
After that, the drop became stronger.

For now, still adjusting the HC carb (today only 5g) to smooth her +1 and +2 a bit. This (unhealthy) low-phos HC food really does change her BG numbers... even a tiny bit of it brings her an impact. Wow. Maybe it won't be worth it at all and I will just go back to how it was before (only LC and a fast and steep drop, but great numbers till PMPS).

I might try another type of MC or HC soon, once I won't need to worry so much about phos for the moment.

Progress, not perfection, and here we go... I will find the "sweet spot" or just use oral glicose if needed.

Wishing you all a peaceful and nice Sunday!

 

[Clarice & Mami Cat]

tiffmaxee said:

I’ve been feeding homemade to my two for over a year. I was afraid of bird flu plus wanted to get rid of bone as they are almost 10. Now one is refusing to eat it . She’s always been a foodie and it really scares me . Her sister Knick wood is doing fine and still a foodie. So far my vet has not found the cause

I would stick with the current food for now too.

Hi Elise, I think it is always a good idea to try the homemade one - and you had good arguments for that, too. Great to hear that.
Hum... does your kitty girl seem healthy? Any different pattern or behaviour, or not?
Maybe she is tired of the flavour and nothing else... but always good to investigate it better, indeed.

On my end, yes... so many details and variables to think about right now, concerning Mami's health. I will stick with this wet food for a bit, while I figure out what to do about the homemade one.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Hi Elise, I think it is always a good idea to try the homemade one - and you had good arguments for that, too. Great to hear that.
Hum... does your kitty girl seem healthy? Any different pattern or behaviour, or not?
Maybe she is tired of the flavour and nothing else... but always good to investigate it better, indeed.

On my end, yes... so many details and variables to think about right now, concerning Mami's health. I will stick with this wet food for a bit, while I figure out what to do about the homemade one.

I m totally puzzled with my girl. We have been to the vet as I thought maybe pancreatitis but both tests negative. We sent to two labs. So I thought perhaps she had a little something that cleared as I know she was nauseous and had developed a food aversion. She was back to normal fur a couple days and then refusing her food again. Tried a new protein she has refused. She will currently eat raw Primal and freeze tried Steve’s pork but cooked pork was a definite no both cubed and shredded. She will eat ham baby food. I’ll talk to my vet when he returns hopefully Tuesday. I do not want to feed her raw permanently but fur now that is what she will eat. This cat would eat almost anything in the past!

Have you tried adding just a drop or two of honey or Kari to slow her down?

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Clarice

When you get those higher AMPS, have you checked with a handheld?

 

[Clarice & Mami Cat]

I m totally puzzled with my girl. We have been to the vet as I thought maybe pancreatitis but both tests negative. We sent to two labs. So I thought perhaps she had a little something that cleared as I know she was nauseous and had developed a food aversion. She was back to normal fur a couple days and then refusing her food again. Tried a new protein she has refused. She will currently eat raw Primal and freeze tried Steve’s pork but cooked pork was a definite no both cubed and shredded. She will eat ham baby food. I’ll talk to my vet when he returns hopefully Tuesday. I do not want to feed her raw permanently but fur now that is what she will eat. This cat would eat almost anything in the past!

Thank goodness it is not pancreatitis. If she is eating too options (Primal and Steve’s), this is good. She is accepting a few options, at least. What is her favorite protein? Maybe you can try it and see her reaction.

Hum... her liver and kidneys - are they ok? Good lab work results? All up to date with the deworming meds?

I do hope it is something momentaneous. the answers will come.

Have you tried adding just a drop or two of honey or Kari to slow her down?

Elise, do you mean directly on her food? Or should I put it in her mouth? No, I haven't. Here I usually use oral glicose plus LC food when her numbers are too low (below 49).

Maybe I could try honey... but I didn't want to do it too often. I don't know if it is healthy for her.

 

[Clarice & Mami Cat]

Clarice

When you get those higher AMPS, have you checked with a handheld?

Hi Marje!
The higher ones? No. Usually, Libre 1 is quite accurate above 100.
I've tested some numbers below 100 and it was accurate too. (I still should test more of those.)

It was really not her typical week (the first one of September.)

But the main point is the big rise around +9. This is the one that impacts (or not) the AMPS. When I give her food at +9, the AMPS tends to be lower.

 

[Staci & Ivy]

Thank goodness it is not pancreatitis. If she is eating too options (Primal and Steve’s), this is good. She is accepting a few options, at least. What is her favorite protein? Maybe you can try it and see her reaction.

Hum... her liver and kidneys - are they ok? Good lab work results? All up to date with the deworming meds?

I do hope it is something momentaneous. the answers will come.



Elise, do you mean directly on her food? Or should I put it in her mouth? No, I haven't. Here I usually use oral glicose plus LC food when her numbers are too low (below 49).

Maybe I could try honey... but I didn't want to do it too often. I don't know if it is healthy for her.

You can put a drop or 2 in the food and mix it in and see if it raises her BG when you need a bump.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Hi Marje!
The higher ones? No. Usually, Libre 1 is quite accurate above 100.
I've tested some numbers below 100 and it was accurate too. (I still should test more of those.)

It was really not her typical week (the first one of September.)

But the main point is the big rise around +9. This is the one that impacts (or not) the AMPS. When I give her food at +9, the AMPS tends to be lower.

I’m just trying to brainstorm and figure out those odd high numbers late in the pm cycle and at AMPS. The fact that the +9 brings down her PSs indicates her pancreas is working.

 

[Clarice & Mami Cat]

I’m just trying to brainstorm and figure out those odd high numbers late in the pm cycle and at AMPS. The fact that the +9 brings down her PSs indicates her pancreas is working.

Exactly, Marje! Thank you. Me too.

Here is the beginning of the story - but it is a long one: 2 questions

I've noticed that she is not able yet to stay longer hours without eating. Even during the day. If she stays more then 3 hours without food, her numbers start to rise. I think this is what happening during the night, late in the pm cycle. After she eats, though, the number starts to go down pretty quick. In the pm cycle, sometimes it goes down very much, giving me a better AMPS.

 

[Clarice & Mami Cat]

You can put a drop or 2 in the food and mix it in and see if it raises her BG when you need a bump.

Interesting... it might be a good idea. I usually use oral glicose.
Thank you for the tip!
I am trying to find the exact measure to smooth her drop in the morning... let's see if it will be worth it - or if it is better to leave it as it is...

Thank you, Staci!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Exactly, Marje! Thank you. Me too.

Here is the beginning of the story - but it is a long one: 2 questions

I've noticed that she is not able yet to stay longer hours without eating. Even during the day. If she stays more then 3 hours without food, her numbers start to rise. I think this is what happening during the night, late in the pm cycle. After she eats, though, the number starts to go down pretty quick. In the pm cycle, sometimes it goes down very much, giving me a better AMPS.

Thank you.

Wendy and I were chatting about this and I mentioned and she recalled that over the years, we’ve had a couple cats here who have bounced off their endogenous insulin. We aren’t really sure why it happens but, after a bit of time, they stop.

Her numbers were a little high last time you stopped insulin but I was mulling over in my head if she could be bouncing off her own insulin.

We think it would be worthwhile, now that she’s had a bit more insulin support, if you try and stop the insulin again. Continue to feed +9 meals. It might take a bit of time to see if things settle down a bit but let’s watch and see what she does.

What do you think?

 

[Clarice & Mami Cat]

Thank you.

Wendy and I were chatting about this and I mentioned and she recalled that over the years, we’ve had a couple cats here who have bounced off their endogenous insulin. We aren’t really sure why it happens but, after a bit of time, they stop.

Her numbers were a little high last time you stopped insulin but I was mulling over in my head if she could be bouncing off her own insulin.

We think it would be worthwhile, now that she’s had a bit more insulin support, if you try and stop the insulin again. Continue to feed +9 meals. It might take a bit of time to see if things settle down a bit but let’s watch and see what she does.

What do you think?

Marje, thanks a lot. Your message made my day.

Interesting to hear you mention this, about the bouncing possibility. One of her vets (endocrinologist) mentioned this to me back in July, just as a hypothesis, but Mami's numbers were higher. I continued to give her the small doses, anyways, and I think it was a good decision, at that point.

What I also found very interesting was how things unfolded over time. Going back a little in the timeline: (1)I stopped giving her the drop at the beginning of July, and by the end of July, she started to stay in green numbers "on her own" during the day and for a good part of the night cycle. (I lost all the sensor data a bit before the time she was hospitalized at the clinic, which is why those data don’t appear in her spreadsheet.) (2)Then, in the first week of August, she spent a week at the veterinary clinic. Her numbers started to rise again, which I believe was related to stress - being handled by different people, receiving IV fluids and medications, and being in a completely different environment. So I started giving her the drop again. (3)By the end of August, her numbers had become much more balanced again.

I really want to tell you something, though. She has been showing me a new pattern since September 2. No more early dives into the 50s or 60s now. During the last week of August, she was quite well-adjusted (although going low in the greens), and her numbers started staying in the greens throughout the whole day and night. However, once September started, things changed. The curve is dropping a little more slowly, and it is no longer reaching 53 and staying there, as it was before. Now, it seems to stop around 80, go a little lower, and then reach 100 or higher already by the morning. In the evening, she is no longer in the greens most of the time either. Her numbers are going up.

Possible hypotheses - this is me, just trying to figure it out, as she is back at where she was in the beginning of July:

• The stock of LC food that I always give her came this time (a few days ago) with quite a different consistency. It should be the same formula, but the consistency has been different since the beginning of the week (more creamy in texture). I went to the pet shop and got some new cans from a different manufacturing lot, and as of today, she is eating the food with the consistency I am used to seeing. I want to check if her numbers will improve a bit or not.
• I was giving her a bit of HC renal wet food as a test. I thought that could be the reason for the higher numbers and slower drop, but I stopped it today and the curve was the same.
• I moved the medication with antioxidants + Glycoxil Pet (anti-glycation effect) to the evening, and maybe that had an impact on her morning cycle. I’m not sure.
• Her 28-day antibiotic treatment is over, so maybe her systemic inflammation from Mycoplasma has improved. If it has an impact, it should be a positive one. Less inflamation, better numbers. (?)

I could list all the suplements she is taking... but I think the one with antioxidants is the one that could support her BG curve, somehow.

Therefore, I like the idea of trying to remove the drop again. Thank you for mentioning this. But first, I’d like to try to calm her numbers down a bit again. They are really different from before at the moment, with much more of the higher blues. I will see how her BG will behave during the next days.

When you said you were mulling it over, you gave me a smile, and I felt flattered. Thank you for paying attention to Mami Cat’s peculiarities and for being willing to help. I appreciate it very much.

(I’ll start a new condo soon. I just wanted to answer this one here so we wouldn’t lose the flow.)

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Marje, thanks a lot. Your message made my day.

Interesting to hear you mention this, about the bouncing possibility. One of her vets (endocrinologist) mentioned this to me back in July, just as a hypothesis, but Mami's numbers were higher. I continued to give her the small doses, anyways, and I think it was a good decision, at that point.

What I also found very interesting was how things unfolded over time. Going back a little in the timeline: (1)I stopped giving her the drop at the beginning of July, and by the end of July, she started to stay in green numbers "on her own" during the day and for a good part of the night cycle. (I lost all the sensor data a bit before the time she was hospitalized at the clinic, which is why those data don’t appear in her spreadsheet.) (2)Then, in the first week of August, she spent a week at the veterinary clinic. Her numbers started to rise again, which I believe was related to stress - being handled by different people, receiving IV fluids and medications, and being in a completely different environment. So I started giving her the drop again. (3)By the end of August, her numbers had become much more balanced again.

I really want to tell you something, though. She has been showing me a new pattern since September 2. No more early dives into the 50s or 60s now. During the last week of August, she was quite well-adjusted (although going low in the greens), and her numbers started staying in the greens throughout the whole day and night. However, once September started, things changed. The curve is dropping a little more slowly, and it is no longer reaching 53 and staying there, as it was before. Now, it seems to stop around 80, go a little lower, and then reach 100 or higher already by the morning. In the evening, she is no longer in the greens most of the time either. Her numbers are going up.

Possible hypotheses - this is me, just trying to figure it out, as she is back at where she was in the beginning of July:

• The stock of LC food that I always give her came this time (a few days ago) with quite a different consistency. It should be the same formula, but the consistency has been different since the beginning of the week (more creamy in texture). I went to the pet shop and got some new cans from a different manufacturing lot, and as of today, she is eating the food with the consistency I am used to seeing. I want to check if her numbers will improve a bit or not.
• I was giving her a bit of HC renal wet food as a test. I thought that could be the reason for the higher numbers and slower drop, but I stopped it today and the curve was the same.
• I moved the medication with antioxidants + Glycoxil Pet (anti-glycation effect) to the evening, and maybe that had an impact on her morning cycle. I’m not sure.
• Her 28-day antibiotic treatment is over, so maybe her systemic inflammation from Mycoplasma has improved. If it has an impact, it should be a positive one. Less inflamation, better numbers. (?)

I could list all the suplements she is taking... but I think the one with antioxidants is the one that could support her BG curve, somehow.

Therefore, I like the idea of trying to remove the drop again. Thank you for mentioning this. But first, I’d like to try to calm her numbers down a bit again. They are really different from before at the moment, with much more of the higher blues. I will see how her BG will behave during the next days.

When you said you were mulling it over, you gave me a smile, and I felt flattered. Thank you for paying attention to Mami Cat’s peculiarities and for being willing to help. I appreciate it very much.

(I’ll start a new condo soon. I just wanted to answer this one here so we wouldn’t lose the flow.)

Thank you for all that, Clarice.

I found over the years that sometimes formulas were changed a bit and so it’s possible her LC food might have changed. Ingredient sources can change from season to season depending on availability. The only way to know is to contact the company and get the as-fed or dry matter basis of the current lot. Funny now but not back then, I found our cats would only eat specific lot numbers of their foods which meant we had to go all over town looking for those lot numbers.

Remember food changes can take a bit of time before you see the results. My vet said food effects can last up to three days in humans and pets. I’m not saying the HC renal wasn’t the culprit but before we decide it wasn’t, withhold it longer and see what happens.

Same on waiting to see how she might react to no more antibiotic/decreased inflammation.

There is no harm in continuing on a drop. She has just had six consecutive cycles back on the drop so give it ten and let’s see where she is.

Again, it was just a thought to see what she would do with no insulin but I’m 50/50 on stopping or giving a drop a few more days. Just because it might “look” like she hasn’t even bounced off endogenous insulin in the past doesn’t mean she has.

They keep us on our toes!

 

[Clarice & Mami Cat]

Thank you for all that, Clarice.

I found over the years that sometimes formulas were changed a bit and so it’s possible her LC food might have changed. Ingredient sources can change from season to season depending on availability. The only way to know is to contact the company and get the as-fed or dry matter basis of the current lot. Funny now but not back then, I found our cats would only eat specific lot numbers of their foods which meant we had to go all over town looking for those lot numbers.

Remember food changes can take a bit of time before you see the results. My vet said food effects can last up to three days in humans and pets. I’m not saying the HC renal wasn’t the culprit but before we decide it wasn’t, withhold it longer and see what happens.

Same on waiting to see how she might react to no more antibiotic/decreased inflammation.

There is no harm in continuing on a drop. She has just had six consecutive cycles back on the drop so give it ten and let’s see where she is.

Again, it was just a thought to see what she would do with no insulin but I’m 50/50 on stopping or giving a drop a few more days. Just because it might “look” like she hasn’t even bounced off endogenous insulin in the past doesn’t mean she has.

They keep us on our toes!

They do, Marje
Oh là là!

It’s funny to hear now about your kitties only eating specific lots of food! haha! Oh my. But back then, I imagine it was anything but funny!

Yes. Good idea. I’ll only buy the cans that have “new formula” written on the label, since that’s the one she is used to eating. I can use the other one when I need a little extra carb and test it. Almost all the cans here already have “new formula” written on them.

I’ll keep her off the HC renal wet food for a few more days and observe what happens, as you suggested. The body needs some time...

I’m really hoping that the inflammation and anemia will actually improve. We’re monitoring the results - that’s one of the reasons for the more frequent trips to the clinic, so we can compare the lab work.

I’ll continue with the drop for a little while longer, then, and see what happens and if she goes back to dropping very low. What would be great is if I could get rid of that early-morning spike. I managed to beat it for two nights, exactly at the end of August, when her numbers were reaching really lower greens, even during the night. So I thought: it is possible to overcome them! There is a way!

Based on what I had been seeing in the past, I was thinking about giving the drop only at night. But now, I’m going to continue giving it twice a day.

Thank you so much, Marje!
I’ll try to post her numbers here more often.