1/25 Binx AMPS 248, +5 256

[Briana + Binx]

Last post

Hope all those getting hit with the weather this weekend have been staying warm!

TL/DR: changing Binx diet (for CKD) but not sure if it's mean to only feed him chicken flavour and nothing else.

After some reading up on CKD, I've decided it's time for a diet change for Binx. Phosphorus levels are most important and I was shocked to learn that Binx's current FF pates are almost double the recommended for a CKD cat. Not surprisingly, all appropriate options are 3-4x our current price And also, the options that satisfy FD and CKD are limited. I've found two options but they both have one catch! There's a Tiki variety pack that checks all the boxes BUT protein levels are higher than recommended. Or there's a stellar phosphorus specific Weruva pate but I can only get it in chicken flavour. I feel kind of bad giving him only one flavour forever and ever... what does everyone else think?

Wishing everyone a calm and steady Sunday

 

[Tim & Pookey]

Briana, I don’t know world numbers off the top of my head, but I think we’re at a similar stage. What was Binx’s phosphorus? Pookey’s phosphorus hasn’t been that high yet so I’ve been focusing on hydration. And trying my best with phosphorus until it becomes more of a problem. Weruva has some foods that are low carb and like half the phosphorus of the FF, but of course Pookey doesn’t eat them as reliably as FF…

I think there’s a mixed bag of reviews about limiting protein in earlier stages. Have you heard similar?

 

[Mary & Jude]

Hi Briana, A few thoughts that you might have already considered (so forgive me for being redundant if so):
I recall with my last CKD cat that we offered him a phosphorous binder (I think that's what it's called). Is that something to consider?
Are you following Tanya's group?
Are you familiar with Andrew Hall's food list that we have posted on our site; it gives both the phos and cal. from carbs content.

 

[Briana + Binx]

Briana, I don’t know world numbers off the top of my head, but I think we’re at a similar stage. What was Binx’s phosphorus? Pookey’s phosphorus hasn’t been that high yet so I’ve been focusing on hydration. And trying my best with phosphorus until it becomes more of a problem. Weruva has some foods that are low carb and like half the phosphorus of the FF, but of course Pookey doesn’t eat them as reliably as FF…

I think there’s a mixed bag of reviews about limiting protein in earlier stages. Have you heard similar?

Ah, sorry to hear you're also now dealing with CKD. It's good Pookey's numbers are still lower, from what I understand they can remain pretty stable in the earlier stages. Binx is just under the threshold at 1.9 mmol/L (5.9 mg/dl) for phosphorus. I'm not too worried since he's stage 2 but I do want to be proactive if I can.

Also saw the mixed reviews on limiting protein. From what I can see, like you said, earlier stages may not require as much restriction on protein levels, especially if the Urea (BUN) values aren't too high. Binx is on the higher end of normal range but based on his ongoing labs, this seems to fluctuate. I'm kind of leaning towards the Tiki variety pack for now and then might make a change depending on future labs.

Would Pookey tolerate a blend of FF and something else? Or I wonder about the binder @Mary & Jude mentioned.

 

[Briana + Binx]

Hi Briana, A few thoughts that you might have already considered (so forgive me for being redundant if so):
I recall with my last CKD cat that we offered him a phosphorous binder (I think that's what it's called). Is that something to consider?
Are you following Tanya's group?
Are you familiar with Andrew Hall's food list that we have posted on our site; it gives both the phos and cal. from carbs content.

Thanks, Mary!!

Yes, you're right. Phosphorous binder is an option. I kind of defaulted to diet change because Binx will eat anything, so it's not so risky for us and from what I read, diet change is a preferred first step. However, it's worth looking into binder options, since the food options for us are limited. Thanks for flagging.

And yes, I've been reading Tanya's guidelines but haven't looked into the group yet. And I was looking at the charts here - is Andrew's on that list? If not, will happily take a link.

Hugs to Jude

 

[Kat & Trixie]

Hi Brianna, Trixie is also in a similar position. Early signs of CKD. I switched her completely off FF and onto a mix of Weruva Wx which is their ultra low phos and Tiki Cat After Dark. The only Wx she liked was the chicken and unfortunately, she got tired of it quickly . Something to keep in mind is that Wx is not a complete diet, so needs to be supplemented with something else.

She’s on a different Wervuva now and the phos is a bit higher than the Wx but I have to look at it as it’s better than the FF and she likes it.

Hope you’re able to find something that works for Binx.

 

[Tim & Pookey]

Ah, sorry to hear you're also now dealing with CKD. It's good Pookey's numbers are still lower, from what I understand they can remain pretty stable in the earlier stages. Binx is just under the threshold at 1.9 mmol/L (5.9 mg/dl) for phosphorus. I'm not too worried since he's stage 2 but I do want to be proactive if I can.

Also saw the mixed reviews on limiting protein. From what I can see, like you said, earlier stages may not require as much restriction on protein levels, especially if the Urea (BUN) values aren't too high. Binx is on the higher end of normal range but based on his ongoing labs, this seems to fluctuate. I'm kind of leaning towards the Tiki variety pack for now and then might make a change depending on future labs.

Would Pookey tolerate a blend of FF and something else? Or I wonder about the binder @Mary & Jude mentioned.

If it’s low carb and lower phos then I’d say that’s worth going for! I think the binders we have to be careful because we don’t want their phosphorus going too low either. That’s just me thinking though, I don’t have any experience to back that up. @Suzanne & Darcy has some CKD knowledge, maybe she’ll stop by.

 

[Karolina & Nestle]

Hi Briana
I have no experience with CKD, but I hope other members can advise and guide you.
Hopefully with the diet change Binx will remain steady and happy.
I also hope you're staying indoor today with that huge storm we're having brrrrrr
Happy sunday
️

 

[Briana + Binx]

Hi Brianna, Trixie is also in a similar position. Early signs of CKD. I switched her completely off FF and onto a mix of Weruva Wx which is their ultra low phos and Tiki Cat After Dark. The only Wx she liked was the chicken and unfortunately, she got tired of it quickly . Something to keep in mind is that Wx is not a complete diet, so needs to be supplemented with something else.

She’s on a different Wervuva now and the phos is a bit higher than the Wx but I have to look at it as it’s better than the FF and she likes it.

Hope you’re able to find something that works for Binx.

Thanks, Kat That's really helpful, it's actually exactly the two options I was considering - Wx and After Dark +. Didn't realize the Wx isn't a complete diet, good to know.

I'm kind of thinking what you said, better than FF but slightly higher in phos is an improvement either way and should it get to a point where further steps are needed, maybe binders are helpful then.

Thanks for sharing your experience

 

[Briana + Binx]

If it’s low carb and lower phos then I’d say that’s worth going for! I think the binders we have to be careful because we don’t want their phosphorus going too low either. That’s just me thinking though, I don’t have any experience to back that up. @Suzanne & Darcy has some CKD knowledge, maybe she’ll stop by.

Ou good point, Tim! There is always the risk of too low and ideally it's a happy medium that keeps them steady and strong. Seems like a lot of us are on a CKD journey right now, it will be helpful to share all our learned knowledge after some time.

 

[Briana + Binx]

Hi Briana
I have no experience with CKD, but I hope other members can advise and guide you.
Hopefully with the diet change Binx will remain steady and happy.
I also hope you're staying indoor today with that huge storm we're having brrrrrr
Happy sunday
️

Thanks, Karolina Happy Sunday! Hope you and the boys are staying warm in this crazy weather!!! Perfect time to cuddle up.

 

[Kat & Trixie]

Thanks, Kat That's really helpful, it's actually exactly the two options I was considering - Wx and After Dark +. Didn't realize the Wx isn't a complete diet, good to know.

I'm kind of thinking what you said, better than FF but slightly higher in phos is an improvement either way and should it get to a point where further steps are needed, maybe binders are helpful then.

Thanks for sharing your experience

Happy to help!

I’ve had 2 CKD cats in the past. I only used phos binders with one, and that was when he was at a very late stage of the disease. As Tim mentioned, hydration is very important to keep the kidneys as healthy as possible.

 

[Briana + Binx]

Happy to help!

I’ve had 2 CKD cats in the past. I only used phos binders with one, and that was when he was at a very late stage of the disease. As Tim mentioned, hydration is very important to keep the kidneys as healthy as possible.

Thank you! And I'm lucky in that Binx lets me load all his snacks up with water mixed in and he slurps it up without question. I had to ask the vet if there's such a thing as too much hydration... which I guess technically there is, if it's impacting electrolytes and causing diarrhea.

 

[Mary & Jude]

And I was looking at the charts here - is Andrew's on that list? If not, will happily take a link.

Yes, it's the CKD food chart. The phosphorous is clearly noted; the calories/carbs is the third column from the left. I like this list because he updates it frequently.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Well, the real thing I would need to know here is what is his current blood phosphorus level. If it’s around 4-4.5 then don’t worry about it. If it’s higher then first you switch to lower phosphorus food and recheck phosphorus in a few weeks. Then if it’s still above the target range you can start phosphorus binders. Depending upon the level — you can choose which binder is best.

 

[Briana + Binx]

Well, the real thing I would need to know here is what is his current blood phosphorus level. If it’s around 4-4.5 then don’t worry about it. If it’s higher then first you switch to lower phosphorus food and recheck phosphorus in a few weeks. Then if it’s still above the target range you can start phosphorus binders. Depending upon the level — you can choose which binder is best.

Thank you, Suzanne! Looking back at his labs, he seems to have been above 4.5 for the last year (if google’s conversion is correct, I only have mmol/L). Edit: currently at 5.9. I’ll switch foods this week and then get the new labs taken to see what happens. Appreciate the advice