12u lantus doesn't work :'(

One of the things you're going to want to think about is a dosing method to follow (and I know that there is so much associated with feline diabetes--the beginning stages and all the learning that comes with the disease can be overwhelming, but it gets easier). Here is a write-up that discusses the two methods of dosing most people here follow. You'll want to take a look at this because Zoghal's numbers are getting into an area where you might need to begin considering a dose reduction. Many people start with Start Low Go Slow method and then later change to TR. The dosing methods guide dose increases and decreases. Sticky - Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)
catlady007 said:
No I didn't test for ketones
I don't know about it alot
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How was he diagnosed?
 
catlady007 said:
But he still is very hungry and is lethargic. Does it take time for him to get better? :(
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Is he hungry when he is in those green blood glucose numbers like 80 and 81. What beautiful numbers today. Normal BG for a cat is about 50-120 (on a human meter) but even on your pet meter those are very normal numbers. I am very glad to see the stability in his BG numbers.
 
Yes, I can read the spreadsheet now. Good job getting those tests. 80 is a normal blood sugar number, but you don't want him much lower. You don't want to increase his dose. Since you are feeding dry food, 80 is too low, you need to reduce his dose to 11 units.

I have fed two cats with the TCFeline mix. If it's too hard for you to get, you might be able to follow Dr. Lisa Pierson's home made recipe. She uses cooked chicken: Making Cat Food See the section on ingredients to see what you need to add.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Is he hungry when he is in those green blood glucose numbers like 80 and 81. What beautiful numbers today. Normal BG for a cat is about 50-120 (on a human meter) but even on your pet meter those are very normal numbers. I am very glad to see the stability in his BG numbers.
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My meter is for human there is no pet glucometr in my country 💔
 
He is probably very hungry now because he's not used to normal blood sugar numbers. Food is tool we use to bring up their blood sugar values, so he is looking for food to increase his blood sugars back to where he's used to.
 
The human blood glucose meter is fine.

For urine test, you can use any urine test strip for ketones sold at a pharmacy. Human diabetics use these.

Do butcher shops in your country sell various types of meat and organs and bones? If so, you can do a prey model raw diet. The ratio is 80% muscle meat, 5% uncooked bone, and 5% organs (liver, gizzard, etc). I'm not familiar enough with such a raw diet to give you more specifics. Be careful with recipes found online. Many are not proper diets for cats or may require supplements you might not be able to get in your country.
 
@catlady007, at the risk of throwing too much information at you at once, I'm going to throw just a bit more IMPORTANT information at you. Two things, actually: how to handle a hypoglycemic episode and putting together a hypo kit.

At the least, you'll want to read through these important guidelines, so that they won't be new to you if Zoghal should experience a hypoglycemic episode.

Sticky - How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
Sticky - jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX

Let us know if you have any questions.

Also, please remember to heed Wendy's advice stated earlier to reduce to 11 units at his next shot.
 
Mary & Jude said:
@catlady007, at the risk of throwing too much information at you at once, I'm going to throw just a bit more IMPORTANT information at you. Two things, actually: how to handle a hypoglycemic episode and putting together a hypo kit.

At the least, you'll want to read through these important guidelines, so that they won't be new to you if Zoghal should experience a hypoglycemic episode.

Sticky - How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
Sticky - jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX

Let us know if you have any questions.

Also, please remember to heed Wendy's advice stated earlier to reduce to 11 units at his next shot.
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He has never experienced hypoglycemia before.
His PMPS is 152 is it ok?
 
squeem3 said:
The human blood glucose meter is fine.

For urine test, you can use any urine test strip for ketones sold at a pharmacy. Human diabetics use these.

Do butcher shops in your country sell various types of meat and organs and bones? If so, you can do a prey model raw diet. The ratio is 80% muscle meat, 5% uncooked bone, and 5% organs (liver, gizzard, etc). I'm not familiar enough with such a raw diet to give you more specifics. Be careful with recipes found online. Many are not proper diets for cats or may require supplements you might not be able to get in your country.
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I don’t really trust raw food, especially in my country. 😅
 
catlady007 said:
I will talk to his vet 2 days later and I ask about ketones and I will buy the test from pharmacy
The human test is ok for them?
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Yes. Human ketone test strips are fine for use in cats. You need to place the strip in the cat’s urine stream and read the color of the test strip at exactly the number of seconds specified in the instructions (usually 20 seconds.)
 
So I would say that IF you can monitor him amd test during the cycle and IF you can feed him with food (possibly even high carb food and also IF you have honey or another high carb source like corn syrup and you have read the instructions about how to handle low numbers— if so then I would give the new dose of 11 units.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Yes, I can read the spreadsheet now. Good job getting those tests. 80 is a normal blood sugar number, but you don't want him much lower. You don't want to increase his dose. Since you are feeding dry food, 80 is too low, you need to reduce his dose to 11 units.

I have fed two cats with the TCFeline mix. If it's too hard for you to get, you might be able to follow Dr. Lisa Pierson's home made recipe. She uses cooked chicken: Making Cat Food See the section on ingredients to see what you need to add.
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Hello. Today is the third day since you told me to reduce the Lantus dose by one unit, so I did a test today because I wanted to wait a few days for the dose to stabilize. Also, he really hates having his ear pricked, so I can’t test very frequently. Right now, his blood glucose level six hours after insulin is 183. Is this good and normal?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
So I would say that IF you can monitor him amd test during the cycle and IF you can feed him with food (possibly even high carb food and also IF you have honey or another high carb source like corn syrup and you have read the instructions about how to handle low numbers— if so then I would give the new dose of 11 units.
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Hello. Today is the third day since you told me to reduce the Lantus dose by one unit, so I did a test today because I wanted to wait a few days for the dose to stabilize. Also, he really hates having his ear pricked, so I can’t test very frequently. Right now, his blood glucose level six hours after insulin is 183. Is this good and normal?
 
183 is higher than a normal blood sugar number, but also not bad. It's hard to tell with the lack of other tests if this is the lowest he is getting though.

Are you giving insulin in the PM as well? There is a units cell for the PM cycle (column P of the spreadsheet). Please fill that in too if you are giving insulin at night. We strongly recommend testing before you give insulin, AM and PM, to make sure it is safe to give insulin.

Are you giving him a treat after every ear poke? Whether it's a success or fail, you want him to associate pokes with treats. That will help with him tolerating the tests.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
183 is higher than a normal blood sugar number, but also not bad. It's hard to tell with the lack of other tests if this is the lowest he is getting though.

Are you giving insulin in the PM as well? There is a units cell for the PM cycle (column P of the spreadsheet). Please fill that in too if you are giving insulin at night. We strongly recommend testing before you give insulin, AM and PM, to make sure it is safe to give insulin.

Are you giving him a treat after every ear poke? Whether it's a success or fail, you want him to associate pokes with treats. That will help with him tolerating the tests.
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I will test before PM it's about 4 hours later.
So should I continue 11u lantus? He's major problem is still excessive appetite
 
Continue with the 11 units until there is enough test data for us to evaluate how low this dose is taking him. We need to see more test data around the middle of the cycle. And ideally a test before you go to bed at night. Many cats go lower at night.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Continue with the 11 units until there is enough test data for us to evaluate how low this dose is taking him. We need to see more test data around the middle of the cycle. And ideally a test before you go to bed at night. Many cats go lower at night.
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Hi happy New year, I tested again today. It’s not yet time for the pre-injection test in the evening but it’s predictable that it’s rising from the nadir. Shouldn’t I go back to 12 units? It seems like his blood glucose is getting higher every day. Is this normal?
 
A housekeeping note....

Can you please start a new thread? We ask that the number of posts in a thread is capped at 50. You can link this thread to the new one but having to read through 80 posts is a lot.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
A housekeeping note....

Can you please start a new thread? We ask that the number of posts in a thread is capped at 50. You can link this thread to the new one but having to read through 80 posts is a lot.
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Sorry, I’m very worried. Could you please also give your opinion regarding my last question?
 
First you need to answer some questions. Are you giving insulin once or twice a day. The spreadsheet just shows an AM units.

We don't have enough test data to tell us how low 11 units is taking Zoghai.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
First you need to answer some questions. Are you giving insulin once or twice a day. The spreadsheet just shows an AM units.

We don't have enough test data to tell us how low 11 units is taking Zoghai.
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Twice a day,
The time for the afternoon dose hasn’t come yet.
Normally, the nadir occurs within six hours after the injection, which I tested on the third and fifth day after changing dose
What additional information do you need for me to proceed?
 
There is a U cell on the spreadsheet for the PM cycle, column P. Please fill in the PM doses you have been giving to date. If a caregiver is shooting once a day (not recommended) it makes a difference.

Nadirs are not always 6 hours after the shot. It can vary by cat, and cycle to cycle. On the 26th for example, you saw a lower number 8 hours after the shot. My girls nadirs on Lantus were anywhere from +3.5 to +13 hours after her shot. Doing a curve may help you determine where her nadir typically is. It can vary a lot by cat. My cat's typical nadir was 7-9 hours after the shot.

Cats often go lower at night, which is why we suggest testing in the PM cycle too. We want to know how low the dose is taking the cat, and I don't know that with the data you've provided.
 
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