Senvelgo- Lucys downfall

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Ctlady22

Ctlady22

Member Since 2024
Hello everyone! My sweet kitty Lucy is 13. She has been to the vet on multiple occasions due to constant weight loss. Vet did multiple tests to figure out why and then did the glucose test and it was high at 497. He then did the frutosimine and it was low around 160. So he comes back and says her glucose was high because of the stress so she is not a diabetic. So then I ask what do we do with her since all the weight loss. He had no answer and since then they have told me there is no other tests they can do. She wás on dry and wet food and temptations treats..( I know bad right) . So since then we have changed to Sheba and fAncy feast and no treats. She has a really good appetite and is maintaining a constant weight now but it is still low. I found another vet to go from here and do a urine test but our appointment is not until Tuesday. Hoing you guys can explain the reason for the high glucose and low frutose.
Hoping she is not diabetic...will hopefully know more on Tuesday. Thanks for having us.
 
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What dry food is she eating? Stress can raise the glucose. Changing to low carb wet can make a huge difference. A urinalysis is a good idea to see if glucose is present. You can test that yourself with a strip you can buy at any pharmacy. That’s how I diagnosed Max. Was she drinking and urinating a lot? Was a complete blood panel done and do you have a copy to see what was out of range? Sorry for all the questions. I hope the rise in bg was due to stress but you do need to find out the cause of her symptoms. I’m glad you have an appointment.
 
She was eating dry food and drinking and peeing a lot but the past 2weeks she has been on wet food. A lot less water and peeing. Yes a blood panel was done. Let me see if I can upload.
tiffmaxee said:
What dry food is she eating? Stress can raise the glucose. Changing to low carb wet can make a huge difference. A urinalysis is a good idea to see if glucose is present. You can test that yourself with a strip you can buy at any pharmacy. That’s how I diagnosed Max. Was she drinking and urinating a lot? Was a complete blood panel done and do you have a copy to see what was out of range? Sorry for all the questions. I hope the rise in bg was due to stress but you do need to find out the cause of her symptoms. I’m glad you have an appointment.
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tiffmaxee said:
The labs look good. I don’t think she’s diabetic. With weight loss one thing you might want to check is her thyroid. If it was there I missed it.
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Yes sorry the photos did not transfer well.
They tested for thyroid and there were no issues there. He actually tested for everything possible. He mentioned the urine test but said he didn't think she was diabetic and that I would have to do a clean catch. I guess he has never crept up behind a cat peeing... impossible..lol. The vet was so annoyed with my persistence that he said she may have cancer and that he couldn't do anything else.
But why the high glucose at 497 and low frutose at 160? You think just stress. She has gotten a lot better with the change in food. I also been giving her a proplan probotic fortiflora and she really has been eating better. Just wondering how long before she gains weight...more than 2 weeks? She was a rescued as a kitten and she doesn't do well me leaving her. I'm afraid a urine test with the catheter will be horrible for her. Just some extra info.. Her back legs are skinny but you can't see or feel her ribs. She acts happy most of the time. Thank you so much for helping us
 
Thyroid T4 was 1.4. Ill check back tomorrow but if you know how to read those labs can you tell if there are any liver or pancreas issues? Thanks again
 
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If cancer it would possibly be small cell lymphoma. For some cats that starts with weight loss. Stool has been normal? No vomiting? Since she’s doing better I certainly would not jump to a cancer diagnosis at this point. I doubt urinalysis would give you much info but I guess possible. You could get ketostix at a pharmacy and test for yourself at home. You dip the strip in urine.
It’s how I diagnosed Max and then the next day at the vet his blood was tested and was high.
 
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Stool has been fine. I believe early on there was some vomiting of just liquid but I assumed that was from her not eating at that time. She had zero appetite but since I've changed food and added the probiotic her appetite has picked up. I will do what you recommend. Thanks for helping me save the money. I've spend over $900 already and they told me it would be another $250 on next visit. Ridiculous!
What should the range be when taking the BS on the human meter? Never done the ketostix what would be appropriate numbers for that as well.
Thanks again for the info. It has really put me at ease about some things. Your Max is gorgeous! I had a kitty like that once . Such great personalities :)
 
On a human meter the normal range is about 50-120. You want to see most under 100 with an occasional blue being fine, especially if they ate within an hour or two. A working pancreas will lower the bg 3-4 hours after eating. We encourage people who have cats close to remission to feed a snack at +9 if the tests before injecting is stubborn to drop under 100.
The ketostix are color coded and on the bottle irs explained.

Thanks for the compliment about Max. He was gorgeous inside and out, the most easy going cat but very sensitive.
 
Okay so weighted her and she is basically the same as a month ago at 6.8 which is lower for her as she was weighing in around 9. Her Bs at 3:15pm was 357 and I'm sure she has eaten within the hour. My apologies for being clueless on the diabetic stuff. Should I have done it at a different time or does this mean she is diabetic?
Or should I check it again at what time? Oh and I'm sure I stressed her out with this first one. I had to chase her down. Then I took y'all's advice and wrapped her in a blanket and did it. Overall I think it went okay but the chasing part was not good.
 
Ctlady22 said:
Okay so weighted her and she is basically the same as a month ago at 6.8 which is lower for her as she was weighing in around 9. Her Bs at 3:15pm was 357 and I'm sure she has eaten within the hour. My apologies for being clueless on the diabetic stuff. Should I have done it at a different time or does this mean she is diabetic?
Or should I check it again at what time? Oh and I'm sure I stressed her out with this first one. I had to chase her down. Then I took y'all's advice and wrapped her in a blanket and did it. Overall I think it went okay but the chasing part was not good.
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That is high. For starters test in the morning before feeding. That is the ambg. Same at night. Then test about 3 hours later. We need you to set up a spreadsheet and signature to be able to evaluate what is going on. Here is where to get the information on how to set up and how you can help us help you.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

If you need help setting up the spreadsheet we have people that can get you set us quickly.
 
I just checked again (eating @3:30) and exactly an hour after eating @ 4:30 it is bs 451. So were you saying to check 3 hours after eating (withholding future food until checked again) ? Am I understanding that correctly? So I should have checked at 6:30? Im getting worried now. Not sure this is something I can deal with. It's so confusing. I'm trying to manage with diet and exercise. She is an indoor cat that would eat freely. I have until Tuesday to get a good understanding of how this works. So besides those questions ...my main one is when to check bs and when to feed her since she obviously can't be eating freely until we get back to the vet. I need to get correct readings‍♀️ So do I take food away during the overnight hours too and check fresh in am?
 
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Maybe get another fructosamine test done to see if it has changed. Those BG tests are higher than I would have thought if it was just stress.
And I would definitely check the urine for ketones.
I would try and get some BG tests in before food in the morning and at night and then 3 hours after food if you can. I would also let her snack during the day and evening and maybe take the food away before you go to sleep so that the morning test is not food influenced.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Maybe get another fructosamine test done to see if it has changed. Those BG tests are higher than I would have thought if it was just stress.
And I would definitely check the urine for ketones.
I would try and get some BG tests in before food in the morning and at night and then 3 hours after food if you can. I would also let her snack during the day and evening and maybe take the food away before you go to sleep so that the morning test is not food influenced.
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Hey there, so let's say when we go Tuesday to the vet and he says .. she is a diabetic. Is there somewhere on here I can go to get information to see if I can manage this at home. The last 2 weeks we have definitely made a good diet change. I hoping I can manage at home. Any advise or tips on this will be appreciated.
 
Of course you can manage it at home. If you are hometesting and feeding a low carb diet you are half way there. You just need a good insulin and I would recommend either Lantus or Prozinc. I personally like Lantus.
But I would get another fructosamine test done to confirm or not that she has diabetes first. In the meantime while you are waiting for Tuesday I would set up our spreadsheet and signature and get a hypo kit set up as well. Details on how to do that are in post 13 of this thread.
If the vet does start her on insulin please post here with the details so we can check if we think the starting dose is
Correct.
 
I had asked this somewhere but why was the original glucose @497 and the frutosimine @167? The vet I was seeing then said she was NOT diabetic. Can you explain their thinking on this? Would the frutosimine be the final verdict on whether she is diabetic or not? Her glucose now is running mid 350(before meals) to 440 (after meals) now. What if another frutose is low...what does that mean? Any idea would be appreciated‍♀️

Will do the spreadsheet just so nervous. Not sure i can deal with this type of diagnosis right now. So confusing. Also, Is there a certain time to feed to keep bs numbers down?
 
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Which Fancy Feast flavours are you feeding now? Just want to make sure they are low carb (LC). There is no certain time to feed to keep bs numbers down. If she needs to gain weight, let her graze on her food when she wants to.
Ctlady22 said:
why was the original glucose @497 and the frutosimine @167?
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If you look at the following post, you will see that 167 may be below normal for fructosamine - though that can vary somewhat by lab. By the lab results you posted, from what I can see (hard to see), the lowest range of normal is 191? Why they are below normal would be a good question for the vet.
Blood glucose numbers can be high due to stress at the vet, but 497 seems really high. I had a non diabetic kitty once test in the 220's at the vet due to stress.
 
Thanks for the quick response. I am just so worried I want understand how to treat this for her. If she grazes at night will that not mess up her morning numbers? Anyway here is what she is on and she is obviously loving it. It was all chewy had in stock when I ordered. Hope is okay.
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Those are medium carb flavours, all over 10% carbs, in the 12-13% range. Check out Dr. Lisa's list here for the FF Grilled. The pate options are a better choice for low carb if your cat end up being diabetic.

You can let her graze at night for the moment. Once and if she starts insulin, you will want to remove food for a couple hours before you test her for the morning shot. The food can influence numbers for a couple hours.
 
One other item to consider.. The numbers for a blood glucose test result are calibrated differently than for a fructosamine test. Normal blood glucose is 50 - 120 on a human glucometer. (The range is slightly higher when using a pet specific meter or on a serum chemistry analyzer which is what is used if the blood is sent out to a lab.) Wendy provided the link for how to interpret the fructosamine results. All of that said, the fructosamine test is typically a definitive test since it represents an average of blood glucose over a period of a few weeks. However, there is always the possibility of human or lab error.

If you're routinely getting tests at home and your kitty is testing at over 300, I suspect your cat is diabetic. Have you noticed any other symptoms of diabetes such as excessive thirst or excessive urination? Is your cat hungry all the time? From one of your posts above, it sounds like she was drinking more than usual but this was reduced with the switch to canned food. For now, I'd let your kitty eat as much as she wants especially if your goal is weight gain. If you're going to be stocking up on low carb food (under 10%), you may want to look for a variety that is low in carbs and higher in calories.
 
Yes early symptoms were weight loss, excessive thrist And excessive urination. I did not check glucose at that time because I was told she didn't have it and they attempted other tests to see what else was going on. Anyway, the past two weeks I have changed to the med carb food around 10-12% because I needed her to eat and at that time she would not eat the pate. So her weight has been steady , seems to really have normal thirst and urine at this point. The only thing is when she eats she is starving. I have only been checking her BS since yesterday morning because the previous poster told me to get a human meter and check it. Which is what I have done. This was the first morning check without food overnight and it was 278 and this evening it was 376 so not as bad as it was. Gonna call on Monday and move up appointment. I am so glad y'all have attempted to explain the frutosimine to me because the vet I was using was dead set on her not being diabetic. I knew something was not right. I looked up the insulin Lantua last night and if she is I'm hoping the vet will prescribe that sincegoodrx still does the $35 cost. So that is doable for us. At this point I just want her to have a diagnosis. I have been going through this since August so I'm mentally exhausted. So when I say I really appreciate what y'all do... I really mean it
 
Ctlady22 said:
I had asked this somewhere but why was the original glucose @497 and the frutosimine @167? The vet I was seeing then said she was NOT diabetic. Can you explain their thinking on this? Would the frutosimine be the final verdict on whether she is diabetic or not? Her glucose now is running mid 350(before meals) to 440 (after meals) now. What if another frutose is low...what does that mean? Any idea would be appreciated‍♀️

Will do the spreadsheet just so nervous. Not sure i can deal with this type of diagnosis right now. So confusing. Also, Is there a certain time to feed to keep bs numbers down?
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Not to add even more confusion with science stuff but:
The usual answer for high BG but NORMAL fructosamine is stress—the body releases extra glucose when stressed and cats especially do this. This is explained by the fructosamine being a long-term look at glucose control that’s NOT affected by stress. An unusual reason to have high glucose but low fructosamine is abnormally low amount of protein in the blood (can be caused by hyperthyroid, kidney disease, liver disease)

Fructosamine is formed by attaching sugar to a protein in the blood. A way to look at fructosamine: we will play a carnival game. There are 100 rubber ducks in a big pan. (This is protein in the blood). You have 50 hats to put on the ducks (this is sugar in the blood). At the end of ten minutes we count all the ducks with hats (fructosamine level). We find there are 50 ducks with hats. BUT if we try again but I keep reaching in and pulling out ducks (diseases that decrease blood protein) so only 25 ducks are left then at the end of ten minutes there are 25 ducks with hats (low fructosamine) even though you’ve still got hats left over (high glucose in blood).
or in the case of stress, at 9 minutes and 55 seconds there are fifty ducks with hats (fructosamine level) but just as the buzzer sounds I hand you 50 more hats (stress release of glucose). So the number of ducks with hats (fructose mine) is normal but the hats still in your hand (glucose) is high. Make sense?
—it sounds like her T4 was normal right? I can’t read her labs on my phone very well, were her BUN and creatinine (and if done SDMA) normal? I think I see bilirubin marked in red but can’t read the number—that is a liver function test but can also go up if if hyperthyroid, or with some anemias. It looks like alk phos, ggt and AST/ALT are normal, right? That makes liver disease less likely but with the elevated bili and I think maybe cholesterol it’s a distant possibility. (Note: I’m not a vet, I’m basing this on humans). I can’t see if albumin or globulin were done—those are proteins. I don’t see hemoglobin or hemsrocrit but I don’t see red on the CBC so I assume those were normal…so …in a human I’d be wondering if this is liver or pancreas related ( with bile not draining properly); some medications can also cause in humans but she’s not on any right? Some viruses in humans also can do it.
But I’d think even in cats an elevated bilirubin requires further evaluation.
 
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Yes I understand your explanation. Thanks for that breakdown. Bun and creat were normal. T4 normal . Those in the red were -Platelet .87- glucose 497-bilirumin 2.0-Cholesterol 230-alp 10 and frutosimine 167. She is on no medications but at that time she was eating a lot of temptation treats and dry food because I was clueless at how bad those were. Any advise other than getting the urinalysis that I should ask the vet to do? Weird thing to is when I first took her to the vet she had a high fever in which they put her on an antibiotic. This helped her start eating again and has been eating ever since. But no weight gain and now I'm seeing the high bg levels daily. Its a mystery to me what's going on with her.
 
While it's a pricey, high quality food, if your cat doesn't like pate style food, Tiki Cat has a number of varieties that are shreds. That may be an option.

If the vet gives you a hard time about insulin choice, I'm going to give you ammunition. The American Animal Hospital Assn has published guidelines for the treatment of diabetes. For cats (dogs are also in their guidelines), the only insulins they recommend are Lantus (now in generic/biosimilar glargine) or Prozinc. The big advantage of Lantus/glargine is that you can purchase it at any human pharmacy. Prozinc is only available either at a vet's office or through a pet-related site like Chewy. Vet's run out of insulin -- we just had this happen to another member whose cat is now hospitalized with ketones as a result of not having insulin. If you run out, break the insulin container, or have any sort of mishap, being able to go to a local pharmacy and get a replacement is a huge relief. Usually if there's an emergency, it's when the vet's office is closed or you have to wait for a mail delivery. I'd print out the guidelines and bring them along. It's very hard to tell a caregiver that they want to prescribe Vetsulin when you're standing there with guidelines from a veterinary professional organization.
 
A antibiotic was finally given on 9-26 after 2months of testing
Clavamox 228.5mg/5ml per Bottle

Give 1 ml by mouth every 12 hours until
gone.
.
Also Drontal Cats
 
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Okay so last night and this morning her starving appetite got her to eat the friskies pate. So this morning before meals her BS was 278 and 342 after eating 3 hours later. If I continue to get her to eat the pate will the bs continue to come down and regulate? Also noticed this afternoon her appetite seems to have normalized..it wasnt a feeding frenzy. Our Bs levels before and after pm meal were 227-330. We are trending down. I'm wondering if after we declare that she is diabetic can I mange without insulin? If she eats the low carb diet and her numbers stay down in normal range. Her weight today was up from 6.67 to 7.03. She hasn't been in the 7.0 since early October. I'm using a baby scale so it seems pretty accurate.

I found 9 lives- protein plus tuna and liver pate.As well as, -9 lives senior cats tender morsels with real ocean whitefish and tuna in sauce. Does anyone know carb count on these?

Also, calling tomorrow to move up her appointment. I need to have a plan and I'm not sure if this has been answer here/there in the previous posts. We are going to a new vet who is going to want to do updated tests and try new things. What should I have done ? As stated previously, I have already spent close to $1000 at previous vet to determine a diagnosis. It is necessary to have all these tests done again? This new vet has the previous tests. Please list what you would recommend from what you have read about Miss Kitty in my posts. Thanks
 
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Ctlady22 said:
A antibiotic was finally given on 9-26 after 2months of testing
Clavamox 228.5mg/5ml per Bottle

Give 1 ml by mouth every 12 hours until
gone.
.
Also Drontal Cats
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So she’s been sick/losing weight since early August? Edit: this antibiotic can cause elevated bilirubin and potentially liver problems (in HUMANS; cats could be different); it can cause loss of appetite in man and cats.

I’m still not clear on what they thought was going on that she ended up on the antibiotic. Was she having any stomach issues when this started? I’m pretty sure I’ve see @Wendy&Neko and @JL and Chip post about stomach issues affecting diabetic cats before. Could it be she had something going on before and is just now getting over it? I’m glad she’s starting to put back on weight. I think cats may get pancreatitis and not look acutely ill—but enough to make them hurt, lose appetite, and make them temporarily diabetic. This is a human dr opinion, I am not a vet. But I’ve been told by vets that cats can have pancreatitis and not look terribly ill. That’s one reason there’s a test specifically for pancreatitis. I do note that her pancreatic enzymes now are normal so it may not have been the problem.

I don’t know how to determine if she could try diet for a while before starting insulin…to me it sounds reasonable if another illness may have been going on especially since you can monitor her. Another approach could be starting a low dose and of monitored it seems like she doesn’t need it it could be stopped. That’s a question for the wiser folks here and your vet.

In hate to see a bunch of lab work repeated, esp bc it means drawing more blood. In human patients I’d at least repeat the abnormal ones, and focus any new ones rather than just order one of everything. You could ask the new vet to try to order with cost in mind—or to discuss with you different cost options. My vet volunteers this info all the time to me without me asking so I suspect many clients ask
 
One more thought: it’s probably not the case but if the clavamox did (temporarily) cause liver dysfunction I don’t know if that would be enough to alter sugar regulation. This is outside of my human practice and I don’t of course treat cats. But it could be a question for wiser folks here and the vet. Her liver tests now are normal except the bili from what I can see; also I’m not sure if the liquid form has sugar in it but it looks like she just took it a few days in sept
 
Labs run before antibiotic was given.
Yes First visit august..he did blood work and vthe 2nd visit he told me of the elevated glucose so he did the frutose test. 3rd visit she was still losing weight and had a fever then he did the antibiotic and because the frutose was normal he said no diabetes. 4th visit she had lost more weight and I was told if I couldn't get a clean catch of urine that he couldn't do Anything else for her. That's why a new vet and why I'm so confused.
The pate seems to be working for her BS numbers. If I can get her to continue to eat it. She actually like the fancy feast ones with 10-12 carbs. I don't want to sound like I'm worried all about the money. I'm just exhausted with the back and forth and if not knowing from the previous vet. I want to get her well I just don't know what else to do . Plus we are going out of town for Thanksgiving and she probably doesn't need to be on insulin while we are gone.
 
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Ctlady22 said:
. I don't want to sound like I'm worried all about the money. I'm just exhausted with the back and forth and if not knowing from the previous vet. I want to get her well I just don't know what else to do . Plus we are going out of town for Thanksgiving and she probably doesn't need to be on insulin while we are gone.
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I get it. I mention the cost only bc it can add up and I get that people aren’t made of $ usually. But sometimes we’re afraid to ask the vet bc it makes us seem like we don’t love our pets. I live in a rural area. Many pets work for a living. So our vets seem to know they will be asked.

certainly not going to be home at holidays should also be taken into account if it seems her numbers are low enough to just try diet (I don’t know if they are), or if it could be she’s getting over a sub clinical case of pancreatitis. Tests for that are pricey and since she’s getting better (so even if she had it may be negative by now) idk if it would be worth getting one. But they prob should repeat her lfts or at least the bilirubin, and at least electrolytes if she may start insulin (insulin can lower K)

but since it’s been 2-3 months it wouldn’t be unreasonable if the vet reordered everything
 
I just quickly reviewed this post, and I don't think I saw any mention of ketones. Ketones are a nasty byproduct that can lead to worse (diabetic ketoacidosis) if kitty needs insulin and isn't getting enough. Skipping insulin if kitty has a recent history of ketones or DKA is not good. As a little insurance, what you can do is test kitty for ketones. Here is a post on how to do that. Tips to catch and test a urine sample Ketones testing strips can be bought at any pharmacy.
 
Yes thank you. I have the strips it it has been impossible to get a test. Our appointment is in the morning. If I can't get it maybe they can.
 
Caught it in a cup. Dipped the stick in and immediate result after 15 sec.
Appointment first thing in morning ..not really sure what the plan is since everything but her sugar looks okay. Just high bs...I will keep you guys informed. If she is diabetic I will finally get that spreadsheet filled out. Praying it's just an infection or something else ...idk
 
Update!!! Took Ms Kitty to new vet. They confirmed that she is diabetic. They ran a multitude of tests again.This vet was way better than previous one. She explained everything and gave recommendations and options. Said Ms Kitty was in pretty good condition with no other issues. I really attempted to get the Lantus but she went over cost and the extra trouble in taking insulin so we went with Senvelgo. Kitty took the dosage well and after 2 hours her BS was 200. I plan on continuing to check BS but is there anything else I need to do or worry about? Vet follow-up is in 2 weeks. Vet said she had 90% success rate with this drug. Did I make the right decision?
I wanted to get y'all's opinion on it?
Thank you for all your support.
@Wendy&Neko
 
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Ctlady22 said:
Update!!! Took Ms Kitty to new vet. They confirmed that she is diabetic. They ran a multitude of tests again.This vet was way better than previous one. She explained everything and gave recommendations and options. Said Ms Kitty was in pretty good condition with no other issues. I really attempted to get the Lantus but she went over cost and the extra trouble in taking insulin so we went with Senvelgo. Kitty took the dosage well and after 2 hours her BS was 200. I plan on continuing to check BS but is there anything else I need to do or worry about? Vet follow-up is in 2 weeks. Vet said she had 90% success rate with this drug. Did I make the right decision?
I wanted to get y'all's opinion on it?
Thank you for all your support.
@Wendy&Neko
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Hi there, I am relatively new to FD but have been doing a bunch of research and can share some thoughts. It seems like a good portion of people here prefer Lantus (or similar) because it has been around and is more tried and true. I was overwhelmed at first, but the injections really do get easier.

There are some concerns about safety with Senvelgo that I’ve seen on Reddit. But there are people who appear to have had success too. Not trying to scare you, but it might be worth reading about the pros and cons.

I’m surprised the oral is less expensive than the injectable as well, but maybe where you live determines that.
 
Thank you for the advice. We need all we can get. Yes I think it makes it a little cheaper because Ms Kitty is so small. The vet said we could probably get close to 5montha with one bottle. Hoping it works out for her. I know insulin is time consuming and I have little time in my life right now. She did say if it doesn't work we can go to the Lantus but can't go from Lantus to the Selvago. So that made sense to at least try it.
 
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