Possibly in remission/ conflicting information from vet

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Christinamh

Member Since 2024
Hi, my name is Christina. My cats name is Presley. This is my first post on this forum. This post will be long. Please bear with me. I am in desperate need of advice right now.

Presley is 12 years old (domestic shorthair) and first diagnosed with diabetes on 9/11/23. He started on 1 unit of prozinc on the same day.

On 1/2/24 he had an fructosamine test and his insulin was lowered to 0.5 units but I was told if I saw him eating, drinking, and urinating more often to increase back up to 1 unit. A couple weeks later I did increase back up to 1 unit.

On 4/2/24 he had a fructosamine and full bloodwork done. Bloodwork showed no abnormalities. His fructosamine was high and I was told to increase his insulin to 2 units.

2 days later we lost his brother Theodore to cancer. We were also in the process of moving. It was a stressful time for Presley.

On 4/23/24 he had another fructosamine test to ensure he should stay on 2 units. The vet told me at that time to continue on 2 units.

On 5/7/24 he was seen by his primary care vet for itchy ears. They initially thought it was an infection. Prescribed medicated drops. It did not get better. He had a follow up on 5/21/24 and it was concluded that he did not have an infection, but rather the itchy ears were allergy related (he has struggled with chronic rhinitis—pretty severe—for 4 years now). He was prescribed cyclosporine, 0.3ml once a day. It has completely alleviated the rhinitis and inflammation in his nose. First time in 4 years he has been able to breath normally.

Let me preface this next part with this; his primary vet told me his diet (natures variety instinct limited ingredient rabbit raw coated kibble to graze through out the day, wet/canned version at feeding times before insulin, or rawz 96% rabbit at feeding time). My vet also never discussed doing blood glucose readings. When he was first diagnosed they told me they could be a sensor on him to monitor the levels but didn’t recommend it as I would probably drive myself crazy reading the numbers.

When he was put on cyclosporine 5 weeks ago I’d say I noticed somewhat of a difference in his eating habits. He was eating less. Not significantly less and definitely not skipping meals, but less. Instead of eating a half can of food at feeding time, he’d eat a quarter. But he’d always follow up with a little dry food. I’d say over the last 2 weeks it has been most noticeable. I’ll say I’ve also noticed a decrease in his energy. I didn’t think a whole lot of it, kind of chalked it up to old age maybe. Or maybe I was just being paranoid.

This past Saturday night (6/22/24) after feeding and getting insulin (about 2 hours later) he was acting very strange. He threw up what looked like some whole dry food and bile. This is very out of the norm for Presley as he has only ever thrown up twice in his whole life. He also started ravenously eating and drinking. He started walking around and was a little vocal and just looked confused. I rushed him to the ER. He was considered to be in hypoglycemia. His glucose was at 66. He was given a dextrose IV and a cerenia injection. They installed a freestyle libre monitor. I was told to at least cut his insulin in half and if I didn’t feel comfortable with that than to give a half unit. I was told not to let his glucose go below 100 and to offer small meals through out the night. The doctor and tech both told me it was very possible he was in remission.

Sunday (6/23) at 6am he got a full meal and half a unit of insulin. During the day his levels kept falling below 100, to 90-95. I would offer food and be would eat and they would come back up. But I had to offer food every hour to keep his levels above 100. I suspected he didn’t need the insulin. Normally he would not eat every hour like this but I think the cerenia was allowing for the increased appetite. He was also overly tired all day. Barely left the bed. Just wanted to sleep.

Monday (6/24) I made the judgment call (probably stupid on my part) to skip his morning insulin. He was back to himself fully. Normal energy and acting normal. His glucose numbers were normal. They remained normal all day. A little high between 10am-12pm (180-200) but came back down to 112-150 through out the rest of the day. Unfortunately I can’t keep myself from checking all the time.

I made a phone call to my primary vet to see how they wanted to proceed. Unfortunately my primary vet is on vacation until Saturday. She just brought on a second doctor who Presley has never seen before. I spoke with her and got really conflicting information. She told me to continue giving half a unit of insulin. She told me to completely take away his dry food and only feed him twice a day. She told me there was no concern if his numbers were below 100 as long as they didn’t go below 80. I told her I just couldn’t offer food every hour to try to get him above 100 should they drop with insulin. His glucose had also remained normal all day without the insulin in the morning (this was at 4:30pm). She told me to stick to giving half a unit. I told her that ER doctors suspected Presley has gone into remission. She told me that would be impossible to tell right now. I just didn’t feel comfortable with our conversation. She was giving me conflicting information at certain points in the conversation. For example, completely take away his dry food. He’s had dry food his whole life and has grazed his whole life. I don’t think I could make that sudden of a change. I asked her what to do if I couldn’t get him to eat canned/wet food (lately he has been refusing it). She told me then I could offer some dry food but at that point to only give half a dose of insulin which would be half of a half unit. I don’t even know how I’m supposed to measure that. The ER doctor said not to bother trying to give half of a half unit as that’s like trying to measure a drop. Something about our whole conversation just didn’t feel right.

Anyway, I fed him at his normal feeding time (6pm). He would not touch canned/wet food at all. I tried 3 different things. He didn’t want it. So I offered dry food and he ate a decent amount. So per the vets instructions I gave a half unit of insulin. I still just wasn’t feeling comfortable with our conversation. So I took him back to ER just to be able to talk to the doctors on staff there (it’s a state of the art facility with some of the best doctors I’ve ever met. They have way more than most ERs with multiple specialists on staff 24hrs). They ended up doing a fructosamine and urinalysis to determine if he was in remission. His fructosamine came back at 315 (just above their threshold for remission at 300 or below) and the urinalysis showed no glucose or ketones in the urine at all. The doctor said we’re not totally out of the woods but that it does seem like he is likely in remission and recommended stopping the insulin. She also recommended that I change his food because he cannot have raw while he is on cyclosporine because it increases his chances of infection (something my primary never discussed with me). She said dry food was fine. She gave me a bag of hill’s prescription diet multi-benefit w/d.

We got home at about 9:30pm EST and I did offer him some dry food to see if he would eat the new food. He did eat some. Not a whole lot, but some. And he drank some water. His glucose level per the freestyle sensor was at 215. The highest it has been since getting the monitor. I chalked it up to stress. I went to bed. I woke up at 11:45 and it was at 225.

Finally here is where things go array. At 2:21am his levels were at 274 with an up arrow (indicating they were going up). Naturally I’m freaking out. I continue to scan the monitor every couple minutes even though I know I should not. At 2:45am his levels were at 297. I called the ER. I spoke with a nurse who said that still wasn’t dangerously high. They came down a little in 10 minutes to 270. She said to continue monitoring and to call if they went over 300. She said to still not give insulin. And this is where I’m not sure what to do. As of 4:15am his glucose level is at 256 with a straight arrow.

I know that no one here is a doctor, but I have now gotten two different answers from 2 different doctors. I hate that his primary care doctor is on vacation. However, the doctors at this specific ER have always seemed so “advanced” and to really know what they’re doing and talking about. I just don’t know whether I should give a half unit at 6am or not to give. His numbers have not been this high (or even close to it) since he got the freestyle. To clarify, I did give insulin as instructed Sunday at 6am and 6pm. I skipped the dose Monday morning at 6am. However at 6pm on Monday he did get half a unit. Can someone please help. I am just desperate at this point. The ER doctor did mention not letting his levels go above 300 because you risk ketoacidosis and after a quick google search it scares the crap out of me. Please can offer any advice?

edit: it is 4:45am and his levels right now read 234 with a straight arrow.
 
First advice is to ditch the so called "prescription" w/d dry food. It is way too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. Once a diabetic, a cat is still a diet controlled diabetic if in remission. It's probably responsible for the higher numbers you are seeing now. You should be able to get your money back, return it to the vet and say he didn't like it.

Ideally low carb wet food would be best for him and that (or low carb raw) is what we recommend for diabetics. Do you know how long he's going to be on cyclosporine? It might also be causing insulin resistance, thus higher numbers.

The vet who told you that installing a Libre would probably drive you crazy with that much data is at least right in that. Most of us home test with human blood glucose (BG) meters. The Libre also tends to display lower numbers than a blood glucose meter. If a cat is eating dry food, we are OK with them being on a particular dose as long as they don't get below 90 on a BG meter. It's not dangerous until a little lower than that - your instinct to feed was spot on. The only problem being that the Libre might be telling you he's a lot lower than he is. Learning how to spot check with a BG meter might give you some peace of mind.

Did your vet sell you syringes with half unit markings on them? We typically change doses by 0.25 units at a time - we eyeball those changes.

You can check for ketones at home with ketone testing strips like Ketostix. Tips on how to do that here: Tips to catch and test a urine sample Not all cats in high numbers show ketones, much less go into DKA but some do. Testing for ketones is a form of insurance. Anything above trace should mean a discussion/trip to the vet.
 
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

If you need help setting up our spreadsheet just ask


Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197


Testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with

Try putting a thin layer of Vaseline on theear so theblood will bead up

Here is a video that one of our members did ,ignore the coding because she is using a pet meter, with a human meter no coding needed
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

More
More
Here is a link to Hometesting tips and links
 
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Hi and welcome to the forum.
I agree to ditch the high carb dry food. If your kitty will only eat dry food there are a couple of options if you live in the US. I’ll tag @Diane Tyler's Mom to give you that info as I am away from my iPad which has this info.
However I would persevere with trying to introduce wet low carb food as well.
If you could get the spreadsheet up and put in any data you have, we can help you with dosing. It all sounds very hit and miss at the moment.
Usually cats reduce the dose gradually until they are only getting a drop before we suggest stopping. The key to sorting this out is to get that spreadsheet set up and enter data and try some lower carb food. Oh and test for ketones… that’s important
 
Bron tagged me to give you some info on low carb dry food ,these are about 5 or 6% carbs

Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_Bw


Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

From what I have read on our site they are 5 or 6% carbs so that's ok
I read the same thing about The Young Again Kibble stinky poops

Dr Elsey's will send you a sample . You can see if Callie likes them before buying them ,get the chicken flavor. Dr Elsey's Clean Protein

Dr Elsey's web site
https://www.drelseys.com

I think this is there phone number
Phone: 877-311-2287
 
Well his dry food was low carb. It was Natures Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Rabbit. But because he is on cyclosporine, he can’t have anything raw. Something his primary vet failed to tell me. The ER sent me home with a bag of hills prescription diet w/d multi balance. I also am going to buy a few cans of it today from the pet store. The doctor in the ER said he’s ok to be on dry food. Honestly he’s had it for the whole 12 years of his life and I don’t think he’s going to give it up. I will offer canned food and I will do my best, but I can’t force him to eat it. If he won’t eat the canned food I’d rather him eat dry food than nothing at all.

I actually took him back to the ER yesterday. The doctor seems to be very happy with how he is doing. He’s bright and alert and playful. He is 100% himself. She tested for ketones in the urine and found none. His numbers on the freestyle monitor are staying in the upper 200’s, low 300’s but she said that is normal for a cat that is coming into remission. When I do give half a unit of insulin he quickly starts falling into hypoglycemia within 2-3 hours. The doctor has said not to give insulin. I also don’t even see how I could give less than half a unit because trying to measure that out would be impossible. She said it’ll take a couple days for his body to start normalizing and to get lower glucose readings.
 
I would be very careful just taking him off insulin. If he actually needs it and he’s not getting it, it can trigger ketones to form and progress to DKA. We have seen it happen here when caregivers are told to do what you have been told
At the very least I would test daily for ketones if you are going down this path.
If you want to feed dry food I would try one of the above that Diane posted. They are the only low carb dry foods available. I very much doubt that the natural variety instinct you say is low carb is actually low carb.

measuring less than 1/2 unit is very possible and we have people doing it every day here. We go down to 0.1 and 1 drop of insulin before we stop. And we have great success in doing that.
it is definitely not normal for a cat to be in the 200s and early 300s and be going into remission. A cat with those numbers needs insulin. Cats need to be 50-120 to be in remission.
I also disagree with the vet in saying it will take a couple of days for the blood glucose to normalise. That is a strange statement. The blood glucose will respond to the amount of insulin Presley is able to produce. If he hasn’t got enough, the BG will not go down.
However in saying all of this Presley is your cat and you must do what you think best. But please take into account what I have said as it is very important you know all these risks.
 
I would be very careful just taking him off insulin. If he actually needs it and he’s not getting it, it can trigger ketones to form and progress to DKA. We have seen it happen here when caregivers are told to do what you have been told
At the very least I would test daily for ketones if you are going down this path.
If you want to feed dry food I would try one of the above that Diane posted. They are the only low carb dry foods available. I very much doubt that the natural variety instinct you say is low carb is actually low carb.

measuring less than 1/2 unit is very possible and we have people doing it every day here. We go down to 0.1 and 1 drop of insulin before we stop. And we have great success in doing that.
it is definitely not normal for a cat to be in the 200s and early 300s and be going into remission. A cat with those numbers needs insulin. Cats need to be 50-120 to be in remission.
I also disagree with the vet in saying it will take a couple of days for the blood glucose to normalise. That is a strange statement. The blood glucose will respond to the amount of insulin Presley is able to produce. If he hasn’t got enough, the BG will not go down.
However in saying all of this Presley is your cat and you must do what you think best. But please take into account what I have said as it is very important you know all these risks.

do you recommend I try a half of a half unit? I’m looking at the syringe and think I can eyeball it. I have carepoint U-40 syringes.
His numbers have spiked to 370 tonight in the middle of the night and at this point I do think I need to try to give at least half of a half unit at his feeding time of 6am. Or even 1hr early at 5am.
I just don’t know what to do. I feel like I’ve failed him. I’ve never had worse anxiety in my life and I feel like I’ve just gotten bad advice from one vet to the next.
 
First advice is to ditch the so called "prescription" w/d dry food. It is way too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. Once a diabetic, a cat is still a diet controlled diabetic if in remission. It's probably responsible for the higher numbers you are seeing now. You should be able to get your money back, return it to the vet and say he didn't like it.

Ideally low carb wet food would be best for him and that (or low carb raw) is what we recommend for diabetics. Do you know how long he's going to be on cyclosporine? It might also be causing insulin resistance, thus higher numbers.

The vet who told you that installing a Libre would probably drive you crazy with that much data is at least right in that. Most of us home test with human blood glucose (BG) meters. The Libre also tends to display lower numbers than a blood glucose meter. If a cat is eating dry food, we are OK with them being on a particular dose as long as they don't get below 90 on a BG meter. It's not dangerous until a little lower than that - your instinct to feed was spot on. The only problem being that the Libre might be telling you he's a lot lower than he is. Learning how to spot check with a BG meter might give you some peace of mind.

Did your vet sell you syringes with half unit markings on them? We typically change doses by 0.25 units at a time - we eyeball those changes.

You can check for ketones at home with ketone testing strips like Ketostix. Tips on how to do that here: Tips to catch and test a urine sample Not all cats in high numbers show ketones, much less go into DKA but some do. Testing for ketones is a form of insurance. Anything above trace should mean a discussion/trip to the vet.
I’m using carepoint u-40 syringes.
His vet made no mention of taking him off cyclosporine but also said it could take 4-6 weeks to see full effects and he has been on it for 5 weeks now. He does have an appointment with his primary care vet on Monday. I’m just hesitant to take him off as it’s the ONLY thing that has cleared his rhinitis in the last 4 years. But I guess I probably have to weigh the pros and cons.
 
First advice is to ditch the so called "prescription" w/d dry food. It is way too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. Once a diabetic, a cat is still a diet controlled diabetic if in remission. It's probably responsible for the higher numbers you are seeing now. You should be able to get your money back, return it to the vet and say he didn't like it.

Ideally low carb wet food would be best for him and that (or low carb raw) is what we recommend for diabetics. Do you know how long he's going to be on cyclosporine? It might also be causing insulin resistance, thus higher numbers.

The vet who told you that installing a Libre would probably drive you crazy with that much data is at least right in that. Most of us home test with human blood glucose (BG) meters. The Libre also tends to display lower numbers than a blood glucose meter. If a cat is eating dry food, we are OK with them being on a particular dose as long as they don't get below 90 on a BG meter. It's not dangerous until a little lower than that - your instinct to feed was spot on. The only problem being that the Libre might be telling you he's a lot lower than he is. Learning how to spot check with a BG meter might give you some peace of mind.

Did your vet sell you syringes with half unit markings on them? We typically change doses by 0.25 units at a time - we eyeball those changes.

You can check for ketones at home with ketone testing strips like Ketostix. Tips on how to do that here: Tips to catch and test a urine sample Not all cats in high numbers show ketones, much less go into DKA but some do. Testing for ketones is a form of insurance. Anything above trace should mean a discussion/trip to the vet.
If he was insulin resistant would his glucose still drop into hypoglycemia with a half unit of insulin?
 
I just don’t know what to do. I feel like I’ve failed him. I’ve never had worse anxiety in my life and I feel like I’ve just gotten bad advice from one vet to the next.
You haven't failed him. :bighug::bighug::bighug: And you are hearing what a lot of us have heard from our vets. They have many different types of animals to treat and many conditions. They don't get a lot of training in feline diabetes. There is a lot to learn in the beginning for us too. I was happy my vet who I'd gone to for years was willing to learn and work with me.

I wasn't suggesting taking him off the clycosporine, just wondering if it's a necessary long term drug. If so, and it increases his blood sugar, then we work any insulin dose around it, same as we do any other medically necessary drug. The more important thing will be to remove the w/d from his diet - that'll likely have a larger impact on his blood sugar numbers.
would his glucose still drop into hypoglycemia with a half unit of insulin?
We've seen cats on 0.25 units of insulin drop low.
 
You haven't failed him. :bighug::bighug::bighug: And you are hearing what a lot of us have heard from our vets. They have many different types of animals to treat and many conditions. They don't get a lot of training in feline diabetes. There is a lot to learn in the beginning for us too. I was happy my vet who I'd gone to for years was willing to learn and work with me.

I wasn't suggesting taking him off the clycosporine, just wondering if it's a necessary long term drug. If so, and it increases his blood sugar, then we work any insulin dose around it, same as we do any other medically necessary drug. The more important thing will be to remove the w/d from his diet - that'll likely have a larger impact on his blood sugar numbers.

We've seen cats on 0.25 units of insulin drop low.
Thank you for responding in the middle of the night. I can’t sleep and clearly am really freaking out. I do know that a half unit of insulin was causing him to drop too low. He was in and out of hypoglycemia and I had to constantly offer food to bring his numbers back up. So should I now try half of a half unit this morning? My fear is that these numbers are just going to continue rising and he’s going to go into DKA at some point.
I will order the dry food suggested on Amazon right now. Do they make a canned version as well that I could at least offer him? He will usually eat just tiny amount of canned. It’s bizarre because he used to eat as much canned food as I’d give him when he first became diabetic. Actually he would rush to his brothers bowls and try to get his food too. But like I said, within the last 4-5 weeks he just doesn’t want much canned food at all. I don’t know if it’s something to do with the cyclosporine or he just doesn’t want it.
 
Do you think you could set up a spreadsheet so we can see what is happening? I can ask @Bandit's Mom to help you if you like? It is really hard to offer dosing advice without seeing the data.
If you are worried about DKA, the best thing you could do is test for ketones...you can either do that with a urine test or you can get a blood ketone meter which tests just like a blood glucose meter… it is more experience than urine tests but more convenient.
There is no canned versions of the low carb dry foods but there are many low carb foods to choose from
Have a look at their FOOD CHART
Is it possible he is nauseated? it. Ishtar be worth while asking the vet for some anti nausea medications such as ondansetron.

If you say that 1/2 unit was dropping him too low (can you share how low?) than you could try 1/4 unit. To get that amount you need to divide the 1 unit into 4 and just draw up 1/4 of one unit
Here is photo of a 0.25 unit dose. The syringe used is one that has 1/2 unit markings

upload_2024-6-27_17-57-36.jpeg
 

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Do you think you could set up a spreadsheet so we can see what is happening? I can ask @Bandit's Mom to help you if you like? It is really hard to offer dosing advice without seeing the data.
If you are worried about DKA, the best thing you could do is test for ketones...you can either do that with a urine test or you can get a blood ketone meter which tests just like a blood glucose meter… it is more experience than urine tests but more convenient.
There is no canned versions of the low carb dry foods but there are many low carb foods to choose from
Have a look at their FOOD CHART
Is it possible he is nauseated? it. Ishtar be worth while asking the vet for some anti nausea medications such as ondansetron.

If you say that 1/2 unit was dropping him too low (can you share how low?) than you could try 1/4 unit. To get that amount you need to divide the 1 unit into 4 and just draw up 1/4 of one unit
Here is photo of a 0.25 unit dose. The syringe used is one that has 1/2 unit markings

View attachment 70420
I can try to upload a spreadsheet. But I do check it way too often. Like every 10 minutes. In the ER I was told not to let his glucose go below 100 (after his hypoglycemia incident). I was also told the freestyle is about 10 points off—reading 10 points higher than the machine in the ER. So realistically if he dropped down to 80 on the freestyle he was actually at 70. So with a half unit he was dropping to 80.

I do not have u-100 syringes, I have u-40 syringes. It has half markings (0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, etc) It starts at half. So trying to measure half of a half will be tricky.
 
do not have u-100 syringes, I have u-40 syringes. It has half markings (0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, etc) It starts at half. So trying to measure half of a half will be tricky.
If the syringes are U40 1/2 unit syringes, you should be able to follow the same direction as on the photo

In the ER I was told not to let his glucose go below 100 (after his hypoglycemia incident). I was also told the freestyle is about 10 points off—reading 10 points higher than the machine in the ER. So realistically if he dropped down to 80 on the freestyle he was actually at 70. So with a half unit he was dropping to 80.
The freestyle libre is not reliable under 100.
Do you have a manual human glucose meter you could also use if the BGs drops under 100?
We have found that if the BG drops to say 70 in the libre, when tested on a manual human meter, the BG is often over 100. That is why it is a good idea to have a second meter to double check.
Are you giving snacks during the cycles routinely? If not I would recommend you give 2 or 3 snacks each cycle.
 
If the syringes are U40 1/2 unit syringes, you should be able to follow the same direction as on the photo


The freestyle libre is not reliable under 100.
Do you have a manual human glucose meter you could also use if the BGs drops under 100?
We have found that if the BG drops to say 70 in the libre, when tested on a manual human meter, the BG is often over 100. That is why it is a good idea to have a second meter to double check.
Are you giving snacks during the cycles routinely? If not I would recommend you give 2 or 3 snacks each cycle.
I do not have a manual human glucose meter.
The ER told me because he is not getting insulin right now he can eat whenever he wants. He has always had dry food to graze. He doesn’t graze often though, maybe a couple times a day. So that’s what he is doing now.
I called the ER because I am very concerned. They told me they recommend I get him into his primary care vet today for a glucose curve. They recommended still not restarting insulin and said at this point it is still not considered an emergency. They have an internal medicine doctor at the ER who would be willing to see him today for a glucose curve if he can’t get into his primary care vet. His primary care vet is on vacation until Saturday and I do not like the second doctor they have on staff. I’m tempted to tell the ER he can’t get into his primary just to get him in. I’m so afraid he will fall into DKA.
 
Also there are no .25 markings on my syringes. Only half markings. So measuring .25 will be tricky for me.

im so sick to my stomach I could throw up, just not knowing whether to give insulin or not. The nurse I spoke with at the ER said not to restart insulin but I just can’t fathom why right now.
 
Also there are no .25 markings on my syringes. Only half markings. So measuring .25 will be tricky for me.
There are no syringes that have 1/4 unit markings. You have to eyeball it. Many of us do that here. It is possible to do.
Also there are no .25 markings on my syringes. Only half markings. So measuring .25 will be tricky for me.

im so sick to my stomach I could throw up, just not knowing whether to give insulin or not. The nurse I spoke with at the ER said not to restart insulin but I just can’t fathom why right now.

called the ER because I am very concerned. They told me they recommend I get him into his primary care vet today for a glucose curve. They recommended still not restarting insulin and said at this point it is still not considered an emergency. They have an internal medicine doctor at the ER who would be willing to see him today for a glucose curve if he can’t get into his primary care vet. His primary care vet is on vacation until Saturday and I do not like the second doctor they have on staff. I’m tempted to tell the ER he can’t get into his primary just to get him in. I’m so afraid he will fall into DKA.
Do you have a libre attached at the moment? If do you can do the curve yourself. There is no need to go to the vet to have it done. And it will be more accurate at home.
Have you tested for ketones yet? If he is going to go into DKA the first thing he will do is get ketones. The recipe for DKA is not enough food, not enough insulin and an infection or inflammation. Ketones can develop if there is not enough food and not enough insulin.

It’s true if he’s not getting any insulin he can eat when ever he wants.
What is his BG right now.? How long since he got his last dose of insulin.?
 
There are no syringes that have 1/4 unit markings. You have to eyeball it. Many of us do that here. It is possible to do.



Do you have a libre attached at the moment? If do you can do the curve yourself. There is no need to go to the vet to have it done. And it will be more accurate at home.
Have you tested for ketones yet? If he is going to go into DKA the first thing he will do is get ketones. The recipe for DKA is not enough food, not enough insulin and an infection or inflammation. Ketones can develop if there is not enough food and not enough insulin.

It’s true if he’s not getting any insulin he can eat when ever he wants.
What is his BG right now.? How long since he got his last dose of insulin.?

I do not have anything at the moment to urine test ketones.

he has not gotten insulin since Monday night per the ER doctors instructions to stop insulin. She confirmed that again last night.

He does have a freestyle monitor on right now. He just ate about 5-10 min ago. His glucose level is at 369 per the freestyle monitor.
 
Should I give 0.25U insulin now? I just don’t know what to do but I’m terrified these numbers will continue to rise.
 
I do not have anything at the moment to urine test ketones.

he has not gotten insulin since Monday night per the ER doctors instructions to stop insulin. She confirmed that again last night.

He does have a freestyle monitor on right now. He just ate about 5-10 min ago. His glucose level is at 369 per the freestyle monitor.
Should I give 0.25U insulin now? I just don’t know what to do but I’m terrified these numbers will continue to rise.
I don’t know what time it is where you are but if you give insulin now can you continue to monitor and give insulin again in 12 hours time if the BG is high enough (over 200)? Did he eat a good meal?
If so yes I would give 0.25 unit
 
I offered canned food and he ate a little. He then did eat a decent amount of his dry food like usual. So I waited 20 minutes and I have given 0.25U. I know you’re not supposed to check the freestyle as often as I do. Before feeding it was at 369. It’s now at 332 (40 min since feeding, 20 min since insulin). He is on ProZinc which I’ve gathered is slow acting so I’m assuming I won’t see the numbers go down a whole lot until a couple more hours if the 0.25 is sufficient.
 
I forgot to mention that he got fed at his normal feeding time of 6am and got insulin at 6:20. Thankfully I am home today and can monitor him through out the day. Can anyone advise what his numbers should be at at 6pm for me to give another 0.25u? Or what levels I should not give another 0.25U at 6pm?
 
I forgot to mention that he got fed at his normal feeding time of 6am and got insulin at 6:20. Thankfully I am home today and can monitor him through out the day. Can anyone advise what his numbers should be at at 6pm for me to give another 0.25u? Or what levels I should not give another 0.25U at 6pm?
Prozinc onset is usually about 2 hours after being given. I would offer snacks of low carb food at +2and +4 (2 and 4 hours after the dose was given.) you could also offer another snack at +6. A snack is a teaspoon or 2of low carb food. If he won’t eat that give him the dry food.
Try and get the spreadsheet up and running if you can. We don’t usually give dosing advice unless we can see Data.

re the dose at 6 pm post and ask for advice. We will want to see how he’s gone during the day.
Well done restarting the insulin.
 
Prozinc onset is usually about 2 hours after being given. I would offer snacks of low carb food at +2and +4 (2 and 4 hours after the dose was given.) you could also offer another snack at +6. A snack is a teaspoon or 2of low carb food. If he won’t eat that give him the dry food.
Try and get the spreadsheet up and running if you can. We don’t usually give dosing advice unless we can see Data.

re the dose at 6 pm post and ask for advice. We will want to see how he’s gone during the day.
Well done restarting the insulin.
Can you give any examples of low carb snacks I can get asap? I do not have anything except rawz canned food rabbit 96% and natures variety limited ingredient rabbit (canned) which he cannot have because they are raw and he’s on cyclosporine. The ER doctor was pretty specific about not giving anything raw while on cyclosporine
 
Have a look at this FOOD CHART. look for foods that are 10% or under carbs. You might also get some higher carb foods in case of low numbers. Fancy Feast has gravy lovers which are high carb. Just a few cans of high carb.
When you get the food, separate the high carb from the low carb and put the number of carbs on the cans of the high carb food. Also make sure you have some honey or karo for low numbers. Hopefully you won’t need them but always be prepared.
 
Have a look at this FOOD CHART. look for foods that are 10% or under carbs. You might also get some higher carb foods in case of low numbers. Fancy Feast has gravy lovers which are high carb. Just a few cans of high carb.
When you get the food, separate the high carb from the low carb and put the number of carbs on the cans of the high carb food. Also make sure you have some honey or karo for low numbers. Hopefully you won’t need them but always be prepared.
I have some temptations treats on hand. Would these suffice as high carb if his numbers start to go too low?
 
You could use them as a temporary solution but I would try and get some high carb food when you can. You can always rub honey or karo on the gums if needed.
Thank you so much for all of the info. I’m so grateful. Ive been sleepless for days and off and on crying because this has been such an up and down situation.

I’m going to work on a spreadsheet. I just don’t know how to make it and what should be on it. If anyone could offer any guidance?
 
Thank you so much for all of the info. I’m so grateful. Ive been sleepless for days and off and on crying because this has been such an up and down situation.

I’m going to work on a spreadsheet. I just don’t know how to make it and what should be on it. If anyone could offer any guidance?
I hope I’ve been able to help you. It is very overwhelming in the beginning especially if the advice from the vet is conflicting. I’m sure we can help you.
I’ve asked @Bandit's Mom to look in and she will help with the spreadsheet if you run into trouble.
I will also ask @tiffmaxee to pop in sometime as I am heading to bed now. I live in Australia.. I will look in tomorrow to see how things are going.
I’ll put a link at the bottom about the spreadsheet and how to use it.
I’ll also tag @Suzanne & Darcy as she is a Prozinc user.
Spreadsheet INFO
 
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