1 week into prozinc and my cat is now hates the shot's what do i do?

Fidget and family :)

Fidget and family :)

Member
hello!
I'm very new the whole feline diabetes and I'm still learning along as i go so bear with me here haha...

ill try to paint as best of a picture here.

so around June 1st 2024 fidget (cat) was found to have a very high GLU ( 16.7 ) and high keytones. After a fructosamine test the vet concluded that she was diabetic and needed to start insulin to prevent a risk of DKA.
they provided 2 options prozinc and some oral stuff that was like $500 a bottle...so Prozinc it was...

the vet tech showed me one time how to inject my cat by the scruff on the neck and look for a feeling a slight "pop'' ( this was done with saline solution)
then I was told to start the first dose of insulin the following morning when she not so stressed out from her vet trip.

6 days went by and the injections was as smooth as butter! after day 7 things went south fast...at around this time my Gf had wanted to part ways with me and naturally that brought ALOT of stress on me.
and i have no doubt my Kitty could feel on that emotion. but none the less the shots needed to get done.

the first time i screwed up her shot i was stressed i think i may NOT have tented her skin properly and hit her muscle...so i pulled pack fast gave her Lots of treats and said sorry a million times and tossed the needle since i didn't push the plunger. So tried a new syringe drew a new dose and went SLOW as a turtle with her and made sure she was nice and calm and i made a perfect tent skin and NOPE! she freaked right out!....so i skipped the dose because i was stressed and she was stressed and i felt i was doing more damage then good...

i had spent all day watching every video on insulin injections for cats on Youtube to see what i was doing wrong...the things i notice that i didn't have was: A. second person to help keep the kitty busy B. smaller syringe. however learning to change inject locations was something they didn't tell me and had to learn from a 9yr old video....hmm

4 more days of injections went by i tried shaving a small patch to see better and not hit the same area and i tried CBD oil to help calm her down...and she would growl/hiss/run/jolt... even when i was very confident i was doing everything right it was becoming a 50/50 shot i was succesful (ie.furshots,poke n run)

its day 12 now and my stress levels are feeling more ''normal'' from ''parting way's'' but not perfect since fidget is still hurting from the shots.

so after some digging i called up my vet and asked if they could order me some U-40 31G 1/2'' 0.3ml syringes to see if this would help....well my vet didn't want to order them and told me it would not make any change to the pain aspect of it...and nor did they give me any help how to deal with her injection pain.
since my vet is being "silly'' to say in a polite way...id like to try with U100 31G syringes anyway since everyone on here seem to use them and say its better then 29G.

so here is the question/s

what can you guys advise to help with her pain/fear before its a ''too late'' kinda thing and just always fearful of the shots? should i just try the U-100 syringes and see if it helps and dose her as accordingly to the charts? or is there a numbing cream? or is she just being a drama queen and just not used to all the pokes and prods and will get used to it over time..?

any kind of help would be wonderful as im running out of ideas and my vet is acting kinda seedy...
 
First thing I want to say is that you can use the U-100 syringes BUT you must use the conversion chart in order to get the correct dose. The U-100 and U-40 syringes are not equivalent (there are more differences than just the needle size.) I just wanted to get that out there first because I don’t want any harm to come to Fidget.

Since ProZinc is a U-40 insulin, most people using ProZinc use U-40 syringes. It’s the Lantus and Levemir users that use the U-100 syringes — and a few ProZinc users who need to make very small changes to insulin doses.
 
I found some U-40 syringes in 31 gauge size with half unit markings. They are made by PetTest. Chewy.com sells them (do they ship to Canada?) and it looks like PetTest sells them directly at shoppettest.com. You definitely want to have half unit markings regardless because you will need to make small adjustments in dose based on blood glucose numbers. If you can get a spreadsheet set up, I can help you with that.
 
Have you tried giving her treats before and or after the shot? You could try deconditioning her to the shots — maybe give food and treats and get an empty syringe with the cap still on the syringe and pull up a small amount of skin and pretend you are going to give her the shot - even touching her skin gently with the capped syringe— and keep the treats coming. Every time she’s calm about it, praise her and reward her. Either way just keep it positive and let her figure out that it’s not going to hurt her. Some low carb all meat treats would be good here — like Pure Bites freeze dried chicken pieces or just boil up a little chicken breast yourself and cut it into cubes for her — any pure meat treat would do.
 
I sometimes used to shoot while my cat was eating. He was very compliant, yes, but he never flinched or stopped eating.
 
hey and thank you for getting back to me!

So yes i did read that if i wanted to go for the U-100 syringes to get a very particular syringe as to not ''misdose'' as fidgets is currently on 1U twice daily (from a U40 syringe). So getting the U-100 31G 1/2'' 0.3ml seemed to appear to be the most ideal and most instock local in my area (according to this link) http://www.diabeticcatinternational.com/knowledge/u40-insulin-conversion/ I wanted to buy a box of the U40 syringes off of chewy or pet test however i was just wanting to buy a pack of 10 U-100 syringes for like $3 and to''see if it helps'' before i would have to pay the $60 for the box of 100

the idea would be to get some U-100's 31G syringes at my walmart adjust the dose to the 2.5mrk(per the chart) on said syringes and if all works out for a few days then i can place an order on chewy for the U-40 31G syringes and revert back to the 1U mark on the U-40 syringes....no harm no foul ....right?

oh! i forgot the spreadsheet i will try to work on that for more info on fidget thank you!

yes! I AWALYS ALWAYS give her some of freeze her dried treats (orijen brand) and lots love and pets before and after every shot. I don't want her to think the shots have to be a negative exp every time so i try to have her thinking about the treats she gets after.
however i didn't try ''faux'' injections to try to get her used to that...ill give that a try and let her get more used to everything and i don't have purebites but i have lots of the INABA chicken fillets in broth! :)

currently this morning was lucky with her shot and she got it in with minimal issue....however she did flinch...
and sadly i did try to shoot while she was eating but she would growl and run away from me then took awhile to go back to eating as she was thinking it was a trap
 
How long are your needles? Are they half inch? Be sure to go in at an angle. Hopefully she is just nervous because of remembering the shot that went bad — and she will gradually get more comfortable with the shots. Or maybe she’s extra sensitive? Some people do shoot the insulin in places other than the scruff. I also used the ultra fine lancets for ear testing, and I did it free hand and did not use the noisy lancing device. I found that the ultra fine lancets really helped) once his ears were bleeding well.

When and how often are you feeding Fidget? If you have been reading this Board very long you will see me recommending feeding at about +2, +4 and maybe +6 but not anything except testing treats after nadir. You have really gotten yourself up to speed on a lot of things, which is great. I am really sorry that you had a personal crisis like that when you have a newly diagnosed diabetic cat (which is really stressful on its own.). Good job persevering through it all to help Fidget.
 
the needles are half inch yes.

ahhhh i didn't know that....it looked like in all the videos and how my vet showed they kept the syringe horizontal...ill try it at an angle next time and see now that goes.

She's being fed 3x a day @ half a can and i feed her at 10am for her morning shot then i feed her at 3:30pm for dinner and then 10pm for her nighttime shot.

and yes this website has been a gold mine of information! and helped me alot more then i ever thought in the first days i started. But every situation is unique and didn't find much on this issue so i figured it was time to start a thread on it lol

and yeahhh the timing wasn't ideal on that...but i've have fidget since the day she was born so i cant and wont give up on her as she was there when i needed her and now i got to return the favor!
thank you! 2024 is just being a weird year so far.... -_-
 
Fidget and family :) said:
She's being fed 3x a day @ half a can and i feed her at 10am for her morning shot then i feed her at 3:30pm for dinner and then 10pm for her nighttime shot.
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She really needs to be fed more often. If her shot time is 10 a.m. she should obviously eat then, but after that she should have a small snack at noon and again at 2 p.m. The largest portion of food is given at the main mealtimes (shot time) and the snacks are very helpful to stabilize the cycles and prevent steep drops that can trigger a bounce. A snack can be a teaspoon or two depending upon the cat and how their BG is and their weight, etc.

Don’t forget to set up a spreadsheet, please. Do you have any BG cycle numbers you can share now?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
She really needs to be fed more often. If her shot time is 10 a.m. she should obviously eat then, but after that she should have a small snack at noon and again at 2 p.m. The largest portion of food is given at the main mealtimes (shot time) and the snacks are very helpful to stabilize the cycles and prevent steep drops that can trigger a bounce. A snack can be a teaspoon or two depending upon the cat and how their BG is and their weight, etc.

Don’t forget to set up a spreadsheet, please. Do you have any BG cycle numbers you can share now?
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hey sorry for late reply!
no worries i will bump up her main feeding to a full can and throw in a snack time in the day as well.

steep drops? bouncing? haven't learned those terms yet...i was only aware to never to give her the shot without food i didn't know it can go all wonky during the day...yikes
and i was just currently trying to figure out how to build this spread sheet...but its not like the one i've got on paper...what is the AMPS and PMPS? worst case i can scan and upload what i've written down.
and i diagnosed on may 25th 2024 i think.
 
Hi there. I see you have been able to get a few tests! How’s it going?

What’s really important is to always test before giving insulin (both a.m. and p.m.) and to enter that number into the AMPS and PMPS cells. You need to make sure that Fidget is high enough to give insulin. And we need to be able to see where she is before the insulin kicks in. If I see at test during the cycle without knowing where she started out at preshot time, then I can’t interpret the numbers.
 
Now you can see the importance of getting a preshot test before EVERY insulin injection. You can also understand why we need to know how low a particular dose is taking Fidget during the cycle. We must keep her safe.
 
Fidget and family :) said:
i havent even drawn anything yet.....i kinda wanna just go half a unit and play it safe
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Whew! I think you could try the 1 unit dose as long as you are able to monitor her some during the cycle. Can you give her a snack at +2 and +4 also. About a teaspoon or two of wet food (hopefully low carb under ten percent carbs.)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Whew! I think you could try the 1 unit dose as long as you are able to monitor her some during the cycle. Can you give her a snack at +2 and +4 also. About a teaspoon or two of wet food (hopefully low carb under ten percent carbs.)
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i will be home alll day to keep an eye on her!

okay ill draw the 1U then and keep a sharp eye on her do lots of tests and lots of food....do note....i went out last night and bought some cans of royal canin 12+ageing wet food because it was packed with b12 suppliments normally she is on fancyfeast pate chicken/turkey/beef.....i almost wonder if the food ws the culprit of if it was the 1.5U i gave her last night...hmmm
 
I’m also glad last night that you didn’t give her 2 units. We still don’t have enough data to be jacking the doses around a whole bunch and. Now that you are getting better at testing, we could hold the 1 unit dose for a little while until we can see how LOW the dose is taking her. It doesn’t matter that much if she’s pink at +2 or +3 like last night. She obviously had a nadir (lowest point) much lower than that. We know that because of her blue 160 preshot this morning.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Now you can see the importance of getting a preshot test before EVERY insulin injection. You can also understand why we need to know how low a particular dose is taking Fidget during the cycle. We must keep her safe.
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I DO NOW!!!! im very sad that my vet wasn't on top of this i kinda felt like they told me the very bare minimum... but im very glad i came across this forum its a god send!
 
I’m not sure of the carbs in that food. I’ve been giving it to one of my older cats too — because it is low in phosphorus and that’s good for older cats. It is a little low in calories though. I will look it up. Right now it’s important that she gets the small snacks up to +6 of her cycle.
 
Post here if you have any concerns about the cycle. I will try to check in and also you can send me a private message (conversation) just to let me know you would like me to take a look. Okay? That way, I should get an email in my regular email telling me that someone has posted here on the PZ forum and that I have a new conversation.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I’m also glad last night that you didn’t give her 2 units. We still don’t have enough data to be jacking the doses around a whole bunch and. Now that you are getting better at testing, we could hold the 1 unit dose for a little while until we can see how LOW the dose is taking her. It doesn’t matter that much if she’s pink at +2 or +3 like last night. She obviously had a nadir (lowest point) much lower than that. We know that because of her blue 160 preshot this morning.
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i just gave her the one unit and a churu stick after..lol
yeahhh i didnt feel too comfortable bumping up a whole unit without seeing her and last night i was tired and just pretested and gave her 1.5U then passed out (thats why no tests done afterwards)

yeah i have read alot of the food charts on this forum but wasn't sure if the canada and USA one are different when i come to royal canin. I will give her lots of freeze dried treats and snacks throughout the day and ill test her when i reach the +2 mark and post it on my SS

and yeah! ill open a convo here in a few :) all info is good info
 
Yikes. I just looked up the RC Aging 12+ food on a food chart. The slices in gravy are 14 percent carbs and the loaf in sauce is 18 percent. Both are too high for a diabetic cat (although they can be used if you need to raise BG during a hypo episode because of the carbs.
 
Here’s a good food chart. You want to go to the chart that has the Diabetic list on it as those are low carb options. Here’s what I found:
 

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Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yikes. I just looked up the RC Aging 12+ food on a food chart. The slices in gravy are 14 percent carbs and the loaf in sauce is 18 percent. Both are too high for a diabetic cat (although they can be used if you need to raise BG during a hypo episode because of the carbs.
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whoops....i got the loaf in sauce.....im surprised i didnt see a spike from her this morning ( did her pre test's after she ate) go to know going forward!
 
Fidget and family :) said:
whoops....i got the loaf in sauce.....im surprised i didnt see a spike from her this morning ( did her pre test's after she ate) go to know going forward!
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Oh okay. It’s important to get that preshot test before the cat eats so that we know the number isn’t influenced by food. For example, let’s say she was really at 99 this morning but you fed her high carb food and she had spiked to 160. Then we think… oh okay she’s at 160, let’s go ahead and give her 1 unit. Then her carbs start to wear off at about the same time as the insulin os beginning to kick in and her BG could go way down. I’m not saying this will happen today, but it’s just a scenario to explain what could happen if the preshot test is raised up by food.

The preshot tests are supposed to be taken before the cat eats. In fact, the rule is “no food for two hours prior to the preshot tests.”
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh okay. It’s important to get that preshot test before the cat eats so that we know the number isn’t influenced by food. For example, let’s say she was really at 99 this morning but you fed her high carb food and she had spiked to 160. Then we think… oh okay she’s at 160, let’s go ahead and give her 1 unit. Then her carbs start to wear off at about the same time as the insulin os beginning to kick in and her BG could go way down. I’m not saying this will happen today, but it’s just a scenario to explain what could happen if the preshot test is raised up by food.

The preshot tests are supposed to be taken before the cat eats. In fact, the rule is “no food for two hours prior to the preshot tests.”
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oh! i didnt know that! okay i will start doing the pretests before her feedings.
And i make sure shes not had any snacks 2 hours before her test.
 
Good job with those tests today. I am glad she’s come back down into a yellow number now. That’s better. I hope that you can get another test two hours after the last one (245 at +4.).
 
The higher +2 is probably just a result of:
1) insulin from the previous night’s shot having worn off and the new morning’s insulin shot just beginning to kick in
2) a “food bump” from the high carb breakfast,

For many cats, ProZinc starts to kick in at around +2. That’s what we call “onset” time.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Good job with those tests today. I am glad she’s come back down into a yellow number now. That’s better. I hope that you can get another test two hours after the last one (245 at +4.).
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thank you! im not very good at getting the drop of blood so takes me a few pokes to get the good sample if drop is too small then test wont work proper....i hope that doesn't alter the numbers too much

Im gunna try to keep doing them for the day every few hours. and then tomorrow i will stagger the times i test to get the best idea whats going on.
 
Fidget and family :) said:
thank you! im not very good at getting the drop of blood so takes me a few pokes to get the good sample if drop is too small then test wont work proper....i hope that doesn't alter the numbers too much

Im gunna try to keep doing them for the day every few hours. and then tomorrow i will stagger the times i test to get the best idea whats going on.
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Yes. Like tomorrow you could try a +3 and a +5.
 
Just so you know— a lot of cats drop into lower numbers at night (not all but many do.). It’s always a good idea to at least get a “before bed test” to see if it’s much lower than the preshot test. Then you will have a good idea of whether you should set an alarm to wake up and get a test.
 
Many people use timed feeders at night (or when they’re at work) to dispense some LC snacks at certain times of the cycle.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. Like tomorrow you could try a +3 and a +5.
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exactly my thoughts on the testing times. so ill try that tomorrow.

not sure if its overkill or not but i see people on here you the flash glucose sensors (freesyle) on there cat...is that worth the time and money or is that for a particular diabetic issue that wouldn't apply to me?

or just stick with old fashioned ear pokes n strips?
 
Fidget and family :) said:
im currently trying to....im getting alittle frustrated ive poked her ears like 10 times (poor kitty is just taking it like a champ) and for the life of me cant get that blood drop...i wasted like two strips so far thinking it was a enough...im stumped
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Oh, I am so sorry. Poor Fidget. Do you happen to know how much blood your meter requires? Some require a little less blood than others.
 
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