? 09-01 Panzer urinalysis results?s

Chrispooky12

Chrispooky12

Member Since 2021
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-23-panzer-vet-visit-gone-wrong.280798/

Dr S only works on Tues & Wed so he said a vet tech would call me with the results of his urinalysis.
She called me this afternoon said he was negative for everything white blood cells, leukocytes, ketones, glucose & the PH was 6(said 6 is normal for PH?) but there was a little bit of blood in the urine? Could this be from the actual cystocentesis which took the vet 2 trys to get it? He doesn't go back & forth between the litter boxes everytime or do the pain meow every time either. He's not straining to go & it clumps when he pees when I scoop so it can't be cystitis. Yes I stalk him when I can LOL :p they are still waiting for the culture & supposedly can't email the results of the urinalysis until they get the culture. I asked her if the culture might show something that's not showing on the urinalysis & she said yes it could, that it could take up to 10 days before they get it back:eek: hopefully it won't take that long!

At the end of my previous post, he mentioned before getting the urine that they could treat him with the covenia shot NOPE TOLD HIM WHY SO IT'S NOW IN HIS CHART NO COVENIA! The total cost of the Vist was $425 ($303 just for the culture)which is ridiculous.

So I guess it's the waiting game now:mad: for the culture. She also mentioned that it was unusual for him not to have any glucose in his urine for a diabetic. I told her it's because he's a regulated diabetic on the correct dose with the help of the FDMB...she said oh, yes you do test alot LOL

I just happened to look on the camera right at the right time yesterday while I was working & witnessed Spook going back & forth between the litter boxes & he did the pain meow. The first available appointment with Dr S isn't until Tuesday September 12th so he has to wait until then :arghh:

Is it possible that Panzer needs 2 cosequin a day? He is an 18lb big boy :cat: it says to give only once a day though?

I just tested Panzer @+3 PMPS & he's at 240:eek: If you could kindly take a look at his spreadsheet. I do believe he dropped between the 103@+3 AMPS either between+3 -+6.25 AMPS(78) or maybe between the +6.25 after lunch time until PMPS( 150@ PMPS)shot time? I cleaned 2 houses today so tested & fed lunch an hour earlier today & got home just in time for shot time. What do you guys think? Is he possibly bouncing? Of course I will test until +6 +7 as always! We are at the end of a vial ( don't know if that's the reason for a high #) & since it's a 3 day weekend I'm starting a new pen tomorrow.

@Suzanne & Darcy @tiffmaxee @Shelley & Jess @Bron and Sheba (GA) @Diane Tyler's Mom @Bandit's Mom @Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) @Larry and Kitties @Marje and Gracie
 
Chrispooky12 said:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-23-panzer-vet-visit-gone-wrong.280798/

Dr S only works on Tues & Wed so he said a vet tech would call me with the results of his urinalysis.
She called me this afternoon said he was negative for everything white blood cells, leukocytes, ketones, glucose & the PH was 6(said 6 is normal for PH?) but there was a little bit of blood in the urine? Could this be from the actual cystocentesis which took the vet 2 trys to get it? He doesn't go back & forth between the litter boxes everytime or do the pain meow every time either. He's not straining to go & it clumps when he pees when I scoop so it can't be cystitis. Yes I stalk him when I can LOL :p they are still waiting for the culture & supposedly can't email the results of the urinalysis until they get the culture. I asked her if the culture might show something that's not showing on the urinalysis & she said yes it could, that it could take up to 10 days before they get it back:eek: hopefully it won't take that long!

At the end of my previous post, he mentioned before getting the urine that they could treat him with the covenia shot NOPE TOLD HIM WHY SO IT'S NOW IN HIS CHART NO COVENIA! The total cost of the Vist was $425 ($303 just for the culture)which is ridiculous.

So I guess it's the waiting game now:mad: for the culture. She also mentioned that it was unusual for him not to have any glucose in his urine for a diabetic. I told her it's because he's a regulated diabetic on the correct dose with the help of the FDMB...she said oh, yes you do test alot LOL

I just happened to look on the camera right at the right time yesterday while I was working & witnessed Spook going back & forth between the litter boxes & he did the pain meow. The first available appointment with Dr S isn't until Tuesday September 12th so he has to wait until then :arghh:

Is it possible that Panzer needs 2 cosequin a day? He is an 18lb big boy :cat: it says to give only once a day though?

I just tested Panzer @+3 PMPS & he's at 240:eek: If you could kindly take a look at his spreadsheet. I do believe he dropped between the 103@+3 AMPS either between+3 -+6.25 AMPS(78) or maybe between the +6.25 after lunch time until PMPS( 150@ PMPS)shot time? I cleaned 2 houses today so tested & fed lunch an hour earlier today & got home just in time for shot time. What do you guys think? Is he possibly bouncing? Of course I will test until +6 +7 as always! We are at the end of a vial ( don't know if that's the reason for a high #) & since it's a 3 day weekend I'm starting a new pen tomorrow.

@Suzanne & Darcy @tiffmaxee @Shelley & Jess @Bron and Sheba (GA) @Diane Tyler's Mom @Bandit's Mom @Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) @Larry and Kitties @Marje and Gracie
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I’m sorry to just see this now.

yes, it is possible for a small amount of blood to be in the urine from cystocentesis.

While most non diabetic cats probably have sterile interstitial cystitis caused by stress, it’s really important to be sure and get a c&s like you’ve done for diabetic cats. The FD puts them at higher risk for infection and infection can contribute to ketones & DKA.

One thing you might want to give him that works better than Cosequin is D-Mannose. You can buy the brand NOW. The dosing is 1/4 tsp three times a day as a therapeutic dose and then 1/4 tsp a day for a maintenance dose. It is thought to work by binding with bacteria to prevent UTIs. It is a sugar so it might cause his BG to go up but you can adjust his insulin dose, if necessary.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I’m sorry to just see this now.

yes, it is possible for a small amount of blood to be in the urine from cystocentesis.

While most non diabetic cats probably have sterile interstitial cystitis caused by stress, it’s really important to be sure and get a c&s like you’ve done for diabetic cats. The FD puts them at higher risk for infection and infection can contribute to ketones & DKA.

One thing you might want to give him that works better than Cosequin is D-Mannose. You can buy the brand NOW. The dosing is 1/4 tsp three times a day as a therapeutic dose and then 1/4 tsp a day for a maintenance dose. It is thought to work by binding with bacteria to prevent UTIs. It is a sugar so it might cause his BG to go up but you can adjust his insulin dose, if necessary.
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Hi Marje if you look in the remarks column on my spreadsheet, you will see that I've been giving him D Mannose(Now brand) for quite some time now. I recently just started giving it to him twice a day, along with one cosequin daily. I'm now wondering if that is why his numbers have been higher than normal for the last 3 cycles. Although I've been giving it to him for a long time, so I'm not sure? I've threatened him with an increase & changed sides that I'm shooting on so I'm really hoping he has a better cycle tomorrow. He may be bouncing but it seems to me that he normally clears a bounce pretty quickly. If I increase though I wouldn't be able to monitor him until next Friday night. Sometimes I wish I could put a libre on him so I always know what his # is but I know they also give false lows sometimes & he would probably take it off before I could even use it. Plus I would have to put it on because he turns into Freddy Krueger at the vet :rolleyes:
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Hi Marje if you look in the remarks column on my spreadsheet, you will see that I've been giving him D Mannose(Now brand) for quite some time now. I recently just started giving it to him twice a day, along with one cosequin daily. I'm now wondering if that is why his numbers have been higher than normal for the last 3 cycles. Although I've been giving it to him for a long time, so I'm not sure? I've threatened him with an increase & changed sides that I'm shooting on so I'm really hoping he has a better cycle tomorrow. He may be bouncing but it seems to me that he normally clears a bounce pretty quickly. If I increase though I wouldn't be able to monitor him until next Friday night. Sometimes I wish I could put a libre on him so I always know what his # is but I know they also give false lows sometimes & he would probably take it off before I could even use it. Plus I would have to put it on because he turns into Freddy Krueger at the vet :rolleyes:
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I apologize. Since I wasn’t giving dosing advice, I didn’t look at the SS but you’ve had him in D-Mannose for some time and his BG was doing great.

when I first brought our kitten home, the trip made her a little stressed and she was back and forth in the box. I had her checked at the vet but also gave her D-Mannose and Flow Free. The issues resolved quickly & she’s not had another problem.

I’d give him tonight and if he doesn’t do more than dip his toes in green, I’d think about whether there’s any way you’d feel comfortable increasing. Is it due to work that you won’t be able to monitor? We support you doing what makes you comfortable but I also hate to see him build up any glucose toxicity.

:D:pFreddy Krueger.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I apologize. Since I wasn’t giving dosing advice, I didn’t look at the SS but you’ve had him in D-Mannose for some time and his BG was doing great.

when I first brought our kitten home, the trip made her a little stressed and she was back and forth in the box. I had her checked at the vet but also gave her D-Mannose and Flow Free. The issues resolved quickly & she’s not had another problem.

I’d give him tonight and if he doesn’t do more than dip his toes in green, I’d think about whether there’s any way you’d feel comfortable increasing. Is it due to work that you won’t be able to monitor? We support you doing what makes you comfortable but I also hate to see him build up any glucose toxicity.

:D:pFreddy Krueger.
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Yes it's because of work, I could monitor him tomorrow but he likes to pull low #s on me usually the day after an increase. I can't figure out what he's stressed about LOL :p I will be glad when the culture results are back don't know if it will make a difference or not though. He does have a behavioral issue he sometimes goes after my other boy Spook who is 6yrs old & if I weren't here when it happens I believe he would possibly kill him! I don't understand why. They sleep together alot, play together & definitely love each other. Spook is overly loving sometimes & a pest, he gets on my nerves sometimes too :)

Yes he only has his top 2 canine teeth so he is all claws at the vet :joyful: :smuggrin:
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Yes it's because of work, I could monitor him tomorrow but he likes to pull low #s on me usually the day after an increase. I can't figure out what he's stressed about LOL :p I will be glad when the culture results are back don't know if it will make a difference or not though. He does have a behavioral issue he sometimes goes after my other boy Spook who is 6yrs old & if I weren't here when it happens I believe he would possibly kill him! I don't understand why. They sleep together alot, play together & definitely love each other. Spook is overly loving sometimes & a pest, he gets on my nerves sometimes too :)

Yes he only has his top 2 canine teeth so he is all claws at the vet :joyful: :smuggrin:
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You’ve probably seen this post on working with a full time job but I’ll toss it in here anyway. Libby was one of our very most experienced members and also a Moderator.

Boy that’s tough when you have a situation like that with two cats. He’s obviously redirecting any anxiety he feels towards Spook. Take a look at the flower remedy I linked because they have others and they are very good and careful with their products. They have a good one for anxiety and it’s easy to just rub on their ears if you can’t put a drop or two on the tongue. I love that they do not use alcohol in their essences like so many other places do.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
You’ve probably seen this post on working with a full time job but I’ll toss it in here anyway. Libby was one of our very most experienced members and also a Moderator.

Boy that’s tough when you have a situation like that with two cats. He’s obviously redirecting any anxiety he feels towards Spook. Take a look at the flower remedy I linked because they have others and they are very good and careful with their products. They have a good one for anxiety and it’s easy to just rub on their ears if you can’t put a drop or two on the tongue. I love that they do not use alcohol in their essences like so many other places do.
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Okay I will look at in now. The threat worked LOL beautiful cycle so far :bighug:
 
Marje and Gracie said:
You’ve probably seen this post on working with a full time job but I’ll toss it in here anyway. Libby was one of our very most experienced members and also a Moderator.

Boy that’s tough when you have a situation like that with two cats. He’s obviously redirecting any anxiety he feels towards Spook. Take a look at the flower remedy I linked because they have others and they are very good and careful with their products. They have a good one for anxiety and it’s easy to just rub on their ears if you can’t put a drop or two on the tongue. I love that they do not use alcohol in their essences like so many other places do.
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I looked at the flower remedy post & I think Panzer would benefit from the flower & the anxiety one. My question is...are the ingredients safe for a diabetic cat? Will they make his numbers go up?
 
Chrispooky12 said:
I looked at the flower remedy post & I think Panzer would benefit from the flower & the anxiety one. My question is...are the ingredients safe for a diabetic cat? Will they make his numbers go up?
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I can’t imagine that they would. It’s just organically grown flowers that the healing energies are extracted and combined with red shiso (instead of alcohol) to get the full benefits of them. Shiso is in the mint family and you are only going to give a few drops. I actually just rub it on the insides of my cats’ ears.

There is a very limited study on rats being given shiso tea after diabetes had been induced in them. The shiso was found to help prevent diabetes. I don’t think it means it will decrease BG in FD cats but it’s unlikely to increase the BG especially if you use it by skin absorption although giving it as they suggest here is best.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I can’t imagine that they would. It’s just organically grown flowers that the healing energies are extracted and combined with red shiso (instead of alcohol) to get the full benefits of them. Shiso is in the mint family and you are only going to give a few drops. I actually just rub it on the insides of my cats’ ears.

There is a very limited study on rats being given shiso tea after diabetes had been induced in them. The shiso was found to help prevent diabetes. I don’t think it means it will decrease BG in FD cats but it’s unlikely to increase the BG especially if you use it by skin absorption although giving it as they suggest here is best.
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Thank you I will definitely be getting some for all 3 of us:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Thank you I will definitely be getting some for all 3 of us:bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I really love their essences. We have large picture windows on our home and sometimes the birds hit them. I keep GHF Recover here and give it to the birds that are stunned & it really helps them. I think it has saved the lives of many of them.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I’m sorry to just see this now.

yes, it is possible for a small amount of blood to be in the urine from cystocentesis.

While most non diabetic cats probably have sterile interstitial cystitis caused by stress, it’s really important to be sure and get a c&s like you’ve done for diabetic cats. The FD puts them at higher risk for infection and infection can contribute to ketones & DKA.

One thing you might want to give him that works better than Cosequin is D-Mannose. You can buy the brand NOW. The dosing is 1/4 tsp three times a day as a therapeutic dose and then 1/4 tsp a day for a maintenance dose. It is thought to work by binding with bacteria to prevent UTIs. It is a sugar so it might cause his BG to go up but you can adjust his insulin dose, if necessary.
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Hi Marje! Have you read about D-Mannose being effective on bacteria other than E. Coli? I think it is definitely worth a try. It is supposed to help keep bacteria from adhering to the bladder (and possibly colonizing there?).
 
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Hi Christina, it really looks like they aren’t growing any bacteria from Panzer’s urine. Is that a final report or is there more to come? So I guess you’re most likely dealing with FLUTD (still). You have gotten some great suggestions so far.

And yes, a cystocentesis can cause a small amount of blood in the urine, but how much? I believe the report said “high.” ? But irritation pf the urinary tract can result in blood as well (such as with FLUTD.)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hi Christina, it really looks like they aren’t growing any bacteria from Panzer’s urine. Is that a final report or is there more to come? So I guess you’re most likely dealing with FLUTD (still). You have gotten some great suggestions so far.

And yes, a cystocentesis can cause a small amount of blood in the urine, but how much? I believe the report said “high.” ? But irritation pf the urinary tract can result in blood as well (such as with FLUTD.)
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Hi Suzanne, yes that's the final report. When he called me this morning he said they tested it 3 different times. He's said the PH was normal & there was a little bit of protein. He said the same thing about the blood could be from the cystocentesis.

So can I do anything more for the FLUTD? Or am I doing everything I can at this point? I'm going to try a couple of the products that Marje suggested in the links above & see if that maybe helps.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh, and I do have a question- I thought that the cystocentesis was unsuccessful and that you did a free catch at home and took the sample in to the vet?
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I took him back in to see Dr S because he was successful one other time at getting a cystocentesis from Panzer. He said on the phone this morning that he just about gave up this time but was finally able to pull some urine out, I was also pretty much saying come on work please work the whole time he was trying to get the urine :smuggrin: Spook has an appointment a week from today for the same thing minus a culture. The culture alone was $303 & I can't afford that again right now.
 
Chrispooky12 said:
I took him back in to see Dr S because he was successful one other time at getting a cystocentesis from Panzer. He said on the phone this morning that he just about gave up this time but was finally able to pull some urine out, I was also pretty much saying come on work please work the whole time he was trying to get the urine :smuggrin: Spook has an appointment a week from today for the same thing minus a culture. The culture alone was $303 & I can't afford that again right now.
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Yes. I noticed that price! It is crazy. No wonder so many people simply cannot afford vet care for their animals- and so many animals are without homes.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. I noticed that price! It is crazy. No wonder so many people simply cannot afford vet care for their animals- and so many animals are without homes.
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Yes it's absolutely ridiculous. I don't remember how much the first culture was that he had because I was using care credit at the time. Now I'm paying out of pocket. When she told me the final cost I was like what really I hope I have that much $ on me!
 
Panzer is running a bit higher tonight in his pm cycle. I had to intervene @+3 AMPS & give him MC because he was @58 @+3 I started work late because I wanted to make sure he was coming up before I left him & he was but was back down a little bit when I came home to feed them there lunch.
 
Chrispooky12 said:
So can I do anything more for the FLUTD? Or am I doing everything I can at this point? I'm going to try a couple of the products that Marje suggested in the links above & see if that maybe helps.
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Well, I am definitely in favor of trying the flower essences to help calm Panzer. Keep doing the things you are doing already, too. The focus is usually on stress reduction, environmental enrichment and sometimes dietary changes. You already feed wet food and add water, so that’s good. There are other things sometimes recommended such as Buprenorphine for pain if he has a really bad episode with the FLUTD. If all else fails, sometimes anti-depressant medications are recommended. For me, that would be a last resort.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Well, I am definitely in favor of trying the flower essences to help calm Panzer. Keep doing the things you are doing already, too. The focus is usually on stress reduction, environmental enrichment and sometimes dietary changes. You already feed wet food and add water, so that’s good. There are other things sometimes recommended such as Buprenorphine for pain if he has a really bad episode with the FLUTD. If all else fails, sometimes anti-depressant medications are recommended. For me, that would be a last resort.
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Hopefully the flower essence will help. The 2 vets that I go to unfortunately won't give me Buprenorphine for him because it's a narcotic. Because I live in Indiana, I don't know why but they are strict about everything. We were the last state to sell alcohol on Sunday :rolleyes: I also have to go to a mental health center to keep getting my clonzipin for anxiety/panic disorder because my doctor retired & the 2 nurse practioneres refuse to give narcotics & so do the psychiatrists.
 
I wish there was something I could do to get my fat boy to get some exercise. When he was 3yrs old I had a treadmill that had a spot on it & he would actually run on the treadmill trying to catch the spot :joyful:
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Hopefully the flower essence will help. The 2 vets that I go to unfortunately won't give me Buprenorphine for him because it's a narcotic. Because I live in Indiana, I don't know why but they are strict about everything. We were the last state to sell alcohol on Sunday :rolleyes: I also have to go to a mental health center to keep getting my clonzipin for anxiety/panic disorder because my doctor retired & the 2 nurse practioneres refuse to give narcotics & so do the psychiatrists.
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I’ve said it before and I will say it again…. That’s crazy that they won’t give the appropriate (and safe) medication for pain. Instead, I believe, they prescribe substitutes like Gabapentin (which is not the best) and Onsior (dangerous to kidneys if used more than 3 days- and seriously, do we know it’s safe for 1-3 days?). Have you ever tried any CBD products? I’m not advocating for them, just wondering if it could help Panzer with stress/anxiety/ discomfort? @Marje and Gracie aren’t you aware of some CBD products for cats? Or maybe it wasn’t you? Sorry for bothering you if it wasn’t you.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I’ve said it before and I will say it again…. That’s crazy that they won’t give the appropriate (and safe) medication for pain. Instead, I believe, they prescribe substitutes like Gabapentin (which is not the best) and Onsior (dangerous to kidneys if used more than 3 days- and seriously, do we know it’s safe for 1-3 days?). Have you ever tried any CBD products? I’m not advocating for them, just wondering if it could help Panzer with stress/anxiety/ discomfort? @Marje and Gracie aren’t you aware of some CBD products for cats? Or maybe it wasn’t you? Sorry for bothering you if it wasn’t you.
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Yeah it's just dumb. They want to give them what they have to make $ rather than something that actually works & is safer. I was warned on here about onisor, & have read other people post about it.
I actually have thought about CBD products just not sure about what to get & where to get it.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I’ve said it before and I will say it again…. That’s crazy that they won’t give the appropriate (and safe) medication for pain. Instead, I believe, they prescribe substitutes like Gabapentin (which is not the best) and Onsior (dangerous to kidneys if used more than 3 days- and seriously, do we know it’s safe for 1-3 days?). Have you ever tried any CBD products? I’m not advocating for them, just wondering if it could help Panzer with stress/anxiety/ discomfort? @Marje and Gracie aren’t you aware of some CBD products for cats? Or maybe it wasn’t you? Sorry for bothering you if it wasn’t you.
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No bother at all. Yes….this one. It’s the only one our holistic vet recommends and uses herself because of the amount of testing they do (that you can actually see) and because of the purity of their products.


Chrispooky12 said:
Yeah it's just dumb. They want to give them what they have to make $ rather than something that actually works & is safer. I was warned on here about onisor, & have read other people post about it.
I actually have thought about CBD products just not sure about what to get & where to get it.
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I feel it’s borderline criminal when there is a proven, safe pain med like buprenorphine and vets refuse to prescribe it. They can easily control what you give. But I’ve linked the CBD oil above and there is also one on the same page for calm.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
No bother at all. Yes….this one. It’s the only one our holistic vet recommends and uses herself because of the amount of testing they do (that you can actually see) and because of the purity of their products.



I feel it’s borderline criminal when there is a proven, safe pain med like buprenorphine and vets refuse to prescribe it. They can easily control what you give. But I’ve linked the CBD oil above and there is also one on the same page for calm.
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I totally agree...I feel like they not only want to give it because it's a narcotic but also because they aren't making a profit off of it. I believe as a vet you need to do what's best for your patients, but it seems like there all about making $ & that's just wrong. Every job I've had I cared about the people & the company it wasn't all about $. I've worked in daycare, customer service, factories, & now I clean houses for a living. I cared about the kids & parents, the customer & even at the factory I would see an employee drop a part that's going to go in a car & instead of putting it on a bad part cart they just put it back on the line. Someone's going to buy that car & not no that it's got a bad part. I guess some people just don't care, I don't get it! Anyway I got a little off topic it just makes me mad! Thank you for the link I will take a look at it.
 
Thank you, @Marje and Gracie. I was hoping that maybe these products might help Panzer, and I think I have some cats who could benefit as well — I am going to look into this. I have spoken with my vet about CBD products, and she was not necessarily opposed to them, but her concern is that there’s so much out there that it is hard for people to know what they’re really getting.
 
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They are too small and when I try to enlarge, they blur. Putting them on the SS lab tab is best.
 

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Suzanne & Darcy said:
Thank you, @Marje and Gracie. I was hoping that maybe these products might help Panzer, and I think I have some cats who could benefit as well — I am going to look into this. I have spoken with my vet about CBD products, and she was not necessarily opposed to them, but her concern is that there’s so much out there that it is hard for people to know what they’re really getting.
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Her concerns are valid but my vet is really great about checking things out. She sent me a video of the owner of CBDDogs at a presentation she did for a vet conference. Very impressive. On her website, you can look up every lot number of all the CBD products and see the certificate of analysis.
 
Panzer puked last night after his +6 PMPS feeding. I gave him a little more about 15mins later & he ate it & kept it down. I gave him Cerenia just incase @ AMPS feeding this morning.

Spooks vet appointment is today, hopefully all goes well.
 
Panzer was a bouncing kitty for AMPS. Hopefully he breaks the bounce on this evenings cycle. I don't like seeing him in yellows & he's super close to pinks:(
 
Panzer has had 3 green pre shots in a row. He also was in all green except a 101@+3 AMPS today for both cycles. Higher greens than I would like but I will take them. I really think switching sides to shoot is keeping him at the dose he's on, well that & I have to threaten him with an increase :D
 
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