Ollie - Libre, WBC and Dental 22 May

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Ollies Mama

Ollies Mama

Member Since 2023
hi all,

An update on Ollie.

Please read my other threads of background.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/introduction-post-from-ollies-mama-cath.277387/

Went to vet today with intention of attaching purchased Libre, downloading app, etc, and dental work. The (new and improved vet) suggest Ollie has reabsorbed teeth (where the gums grow over) and that's what's contributing to his non-eating. She is right. When he eats, he sounds like rubber gnashing on each other, so he licks, not chews. He licks about two tablespoons of food a day, drinks water, pee's (no ketones) and sometimes poo.

Today, after doing pre-surgery bloods she was concerned about his white blood cell count. It was 37. Range maximum is 17. She was concerned that his immune system is too compromised to endure dental work, especially as a piece of bacteria from a dental clean/X-ray could penetrate his blood system, and when his immune system is compromised, he is more at risk septicaemia.

To treat this, she wants to put him on anti-biotics for a week. Three needles Mon, Wed and Friday. We can't give oral, because his mouth is sensitive. I asked if I could give the injections and she said yes, but they're not little needles. I declined and have agreed to bring him in Wednesday at 5pm for needle. Each needle of anti-biotics last two days.

Friday, he will have another dose and they'll re-run WBC count and see if it's low enough to do dental work.

Regarding diabetes, his BG was 10 and the libre is fitted. I'm currently waiting the hour to calibrate it and register his first score.

I'm hoping to utilise the spreadsheet a bit better once it's sorted.

he was SO affectionate after the vet, must have felt better after fluid therapy and a dose of anti-biotics.

Cath
 
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Just scanned 12.1 mmol/L. He had a few licks of pate slurry about 5pm (45 mins ago) He's due for metacam and insulin now. Back soon.
 
7.3 mmol/L at 8.11pm, green zone.

And it shows. He sought me out in the house, wanted my dinner, did his 'give me food' cry, licked some pate, and then we went back to bed. Can't be close enough. This is so interesting!
 
Picture of Green Zone on Libre.
 

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I had alarms set for me if it dropped beneath 3.9, which it did.

Tested again at 3.20 am (two/three hours before shot) and was back to 6.1. Have updated spreadsheet, and reduced to .75 at 7 am shot after he ate, and had metacam.
 
hello, no, I didn't give him a snack, but I can keep a smidge of pate on my bedside table from now on. What do you think is a good score to give a snack?

He can't chew anything at the moment so a treat won't work. When he can chew, the treats can start up and I'll keep a supply of them handy.

I wish the Libre had wi-fi enabled, it's only bluetooth which means I have to be near it. And I have to figure out how I can get it, cheaper.
for him. It cost me $135.00 (for 14 days use. If he was a person, it would be $3.00, and able to be registered on NDSS.

Do you know any way I can get it cheaper?

Cheers
Cath
 
I know it is hard at the moment to give him snacks but if you can it would be a good idea to give him snacks routinely at + 2 and +4 while on Caninsulin. Once on optisulin, a snack around +2 and +5 would be good. Times can be adjusted when you see how his numbers are on optisulin.
@Din lives in Australia and she puts the libres on herself…or her husband does. I think she pays around $100 for them.
It is much cheaper if you learn to manually hometest.
 
Happy to do that - thanks for the idea and linking me too. I agree the home testing is cheaper. I have all the gear for home testing too.

We are planning to move to Optinsul just when he's a bit more stable.

I think once his WCC is lower, and he is less at risk for septicaemia, the dental work will be a big turnaround for him. He is a food orientated cat.

When I eat, he watches every mouthful. When I potter in the kitchen, he follows and yells at me. He wants to eat and is licking more and more slurry.

I can't wait until he's able to chew on chicken, turkey, beef and roo again.
 
Can you put some chicken or other meat and water into a blender to make a slurry or are you doing that already?
What about scrambled egg? You could make that very sloppy.
I know Sheba and my present Mist is very food orientated so when they don't eat, you know something is wrong.
 
I
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Can you put some chicken or other meat and water into a blender to make a slurry or are you doing that already?
What about scrambled egg? You could make that very sloppy.
I know Sheba and my present Mist is very food orientated so when they don't eat, you know something is wrong.
Click to expand...
have tried blended roo, but it was too sinewy for him to eat. I'll try chicken tonight. I have a thermomix so I can really emulsify it.

I haven't tried scrambled eggs at all, but will give it a go. Yes, Ollie is very food orientated. Prior to this incident, every time I got up to make a coffee, he would leave where he was, and yell at me for food.

Normally would be a healthy appetite. He has a fat pouch from that time which is serving him well now, and he's likely losing weight.
 
One of mine loves cooked egg. Whenever I cook it I have him sitting beside me asking for a piece every 20 seconds.
Eggs are full of nutrition.
You could cook a couple of drumsticks in a little water, strip the flesh when cooked and use the juice for blending.
 
I will make him some eggs. Oh gee Bron, you should hear the grating when he eats, it’s akin to fingernails on a blackboard.

I tested him at 5.00 pm today as soon as I got home. He was 7.7 mmol. I gave him some watered down chicken minced meat and he enjoyed it, licking it up. Then insulin, then metacam. I’ll retest in 60 mins

Next time he eats, I’ll get a video with sound.
Another old behaviour came back today. He came to the garage door when he heard my car and waited for me to walk into the house.

The other hard thing to listen to is the effects of hyper salivation. He is constantly trying to swallow it or sneezing and it’s awful to hear.
Back to the vets tomorrow, for second shot of antibiotics, which will last for two days until he is admitted on Friday and receives his final dose in order to prepare for dental work.
 
Cath, I can see you have not reduced the dose down to 0.75 units. You are still giving him
Is that a typo ?
I would also keep an eye on the BG this cycle and make sure you get +1 +2 etc to see what the cycle is going to do.
You may need to feed him early in the cycle to stop him from dropping too low.
 
The above post, was held in draft accidentally. It relates to Tuesday 23rd May.

Wednesday 24th May.
No ketones, 8.3 mmol PMPS, 2nd injection of antibiotics at Vet at 5pm, they're happy with his progress.

Behaviourally, he is responding as he used to. He yelled at me when I bought a roasted hot chicken into the house, and ate some of it.

Vet agreed hyper salivation is from the mouth - they're keen for dental work on Friday to relieve him of this too.

I don't know if it's the chocolates that I've given the vet surgery or Ollie's pleasant disposition, but they seem to be getting fond of him.

They are invested in his recovery, excited to see graphs from libre (I just have to read about that tonight...) and have him feeling better.

And my mum gave me some money to help with the bill, so that was kind.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Cath, I can see you have not reduced the dose down to 0.75 units. You are still giving him
Is that a typo ?
I would also keep an eye on the BG this cycle and make sure you get +1 +2 etc to see what the cycle is going to do.
You may need to feed him early in the cycle to stop him from dropping too low.
Click to expand...
oh, should I give him .75 every time now? Can you explain why to me? I'm happy to do so, just thought it was a once off and need to understand rationale.
I gave him 1UC just now at 6pm, Qld time. Is this bad?
 
Ollies Mama said:
oh, should I give him .75 every time now? Can you explain why to me? I'm happy to do so, just thought it was a once off and need to understand rationale.
I gave him 1UC just now at 6pm, Qld time. Is this bad?
Click to expand...
Once he earns a reduction, you stay with the new dose. And you stay with that new dose unless he earns another reduction or he needs more insulin. The drop down to 70 on the 22 nd tell us the dose of 1 unit of Caninsulin is too high and needs to be reduced.
So I would monitor this cycle closely and feed him early in the cycle at +1 or +2 if he won’t eat at +1.
Keep the SS up to date and I will keep an eye on it.
did you skip a dose 2 nights ago or have you just not put the data in to the SS?
 
Thank you. i will read and read that a couple of times to understand. I skipped a dose, from memory. Trying to take screen shots every time I scan.
 
update. Gave 1UC at about 515 pm after metacam/food.

By 7.38, his BG. dropped quickly to
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3.9 and my libre alarm went off.

On advice from Bron, i quickly fed him, and rubbed a couple of drops onto his tongue, which he licked off.

Instructed to re-test in 20 mins, which I will do. Apologies for disturbing you Bron, i panicked.

Now I see Bron, reduce the dose. I have to learn this method. So I should continue to give him .75 every dose, and see how it reduces dramatic drop.

Any dramatic dose = reduce insulin.
To increase back into safe zone, rub honey until you're in a safe zone.

have I got that right?

I got distracted cooking dinner and getting changed!!!

And I could be imagining this, but I think he tried to tell me.... he came downstairs, yelled at me while I was cooking, and then when I sat down to eat my own dinner, he sat on me, in a way he hasn't before.
 

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Cath contacted me on messenger as we both live in Australia. I told her to feed and give some honey and then post on here.
Cath, any time the BG drops under 90, you need to reduce the dose of insulin by 0.25 U.
Can you post an update of the BG please?
 
Is this actually good? That he requires less? Could he be kicking diabetes? or just readjusting because he's getting better?
 
So I have to have given him just the right amount of honey, and just the right amount of food to get him up, but not crazy up? This is just trial and error right.
I don't want to kill my cat.
 
Yes it is trail and error. You won’t kill him giving him honey. If you gave too much it might make him sick or send the BG up a bit high but they are preferable to a hypo.
I’m think it it might be better to reduce the dose down to 0.5 U as he is not eating all that well and you are not there during the day are you?
 
ok. I understand. His appetite is increasing, but he's also on metacam .6 ml daily for pain and I am not here from 7 am until 5pm. Should I try a reduced dose? I can try on the little syringes for sure. From when? Tomorrow 6 am?
 
Ollies Mama said:
ok. I understand. His appetite is increasing, but he's also on metacam .6 ml daily for pain and I am not here from 7 am until 5pm. Should I try a reduced dose? I can try on the little syringes for sure. From when? Tomorrow 6 am?
Click to expand...
Yes, I would reduce to 0.5 U from tomorrow morning. Are you able to come home at all during the day?
What do you mean ‘I can try the little syringes.’
 
Sorry. I have the UC syringes, so I can try and draw .5, carefully with my magnifiers on. I was thinking of possibility of buying smaller syringes sorry, and it came out in text.

I could come home during the day yes. To test - what do you think would be a good time?
 
Ollies Mama said:
Sorry. I have the UC syringes, so I can try and draw .5, carefully with my magnifiers on. I was thinking of possibility of buying smaller syringes sorry, and it came out in text.

I could come home during the day yes. To test - what do you think would be a good time?
Click to expand...
What are UC syringes?
I would try and get home around +4
 
I just saw a comment on the facebook wall that insulin is no good when it becomes cloudy. Mine is cloudy. Is that worth checking with the vet or getting a new one?
Maybe someone left it out of the fridge.
 
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