Sharess the bouncer

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Vicky & Sharess

Vicky & Sharess

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Hello, I open a new thread because the previous one was a little big. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...um-i-need-your-expertise.272174/#post-3032208

Sharess continuous bouncing and she is having difficulties with her bag legs. @Sienne and Gabby (GA) recomended me methylcobalamin and I talked about it with the vet. She told me they usually put B12 injections and I wanted to know if you have some experiences with that, or do you think it's better to buy Cobalin or something similar https://www.farmaciasdirect.com/51648-medium_default/cobalin-60-capsulas.jpg

Thanks a lot guys! <3
 
Hi Vicky,
My Sheba was a big bouncer, so I know the frustration! Not much you can do but keep on doing what you are doing.
I see Sharess dropped to 69 today. I’m not a Prozinc user so I will tag @FrostD to see what she thinks about the current dose as I don’t use Prozinc.

Most vets do not know about the methyl B12 tablets that are used for diabetic neuropathy and will suggest the B12 injections but they are not the same thing and will not do anything for the neuropathy.
What you need is Methyl B 12 tablets called Zobaline which you can buy from linflink.com
I used them for Sheba and they helped return her to normal after about 6 months. You also need to get Sharess into more normal numbers for this to happen. I would recommend zobaline.
https://ilifelink.com/product/zobaline-for-diabetic-cats-3-mg-x-60-tablets/
 
You are likely able to find generic methylcobalamin online or at a health food store. Just make sure there's nothing other than methylcobalamin in whatever you buy. Try to find tablets/capsules that are 3mg of methylcobalamin. Sometimes folate (200mcg) is included.

Methylcobalamin is the most readily bio-available form of B12. The B12 injection is a synthetic form of B12 -- cyanocobalamin. The methyl and cyano forms are not the same.
 
After checking, Zobaline is only for US and there is no equivalent for pets in Spain. I managed to find a dubious website that sells Zobaline for 51'90€ (witch is really expensive in comparison) but also I think the delievery will take ages and I am not sure is the product will arrive or not.

@Sienne and Gabby (GA), you are right! I read this article in Spanish https://www.usroasterie.com/metilcobalamina-para-gatos.html that says I can use human Methylcobalamin for pets (3-5 mg per day) but I need to be sure that the suplement doesn't have xilitol on it because it's toxic.

I think I am safe with this one https://www.amazon.es/Vitamina-B12-1000mcg-Comprimidos-suministro/dp/B09M74Q5GF/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=2BZIQMJ2FB480&keywords=metilcobalamina&qid=1673142996&sprefix=metilcobalamina%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-4-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1 :D

The only think I need know is how to convert 1000µg to 3mg (witch is more complicated that it looks). According to the converter, I would have to give Sharess 3 pills per day, but the recommendations for humans is one pill a day... There's something that doesn't add up to me. :woot:
 
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Are the doses listed in the spreadsheet correct? I had mentioned on Thursday to reduce, and you said you would take the reduction. But I still see 1.5U in the spreadsheet for the last few days?
 
Ey @FrostD! I thought I should reduce the dosis only for that day and I did, but after that, the numbers were high again and she peed on herself again. I didn’t know you told me to reduce it from that day on… Sorry about the misunderstanding. So what should I do? :nailbiting:
 
Ah that's our fault for not being clear for someone new to this. When a reduction is earned by dropping below 90, you keep that reduced dose for at least a week (but if another reduction is earned, you take another reduction). At the end of a week, you re evaluate and see if perhaps an increase is needed.
 
Thanks @FrostD I will reduce the dosis from now on if you consider it's the best thing to do... I only have one question before doing anything: This morning she was Hi again and she peed on herself. I really doesn't know what to do because the more days pass, the more mobility problems she has. it beak my hearth to see her like that :(
 
Remember that you have no control over the high numbers, only the lows (nadir). Think of it this way - while hyperglycemia (high BG) does wear on the body over a long time, hypoglycemia (low BG) can be fatal or cause paralysis, blindness, etc. So it is better to run high than risk going too low. Eventually she will hopefully stop bouncing so much and start to heal.

It's a shame about the zobaline, hopefully you can find something.
 
As far as her peeing on herself - they do make diapers for small dogs that may work. I'm guessing she has difficulty getting into the litter box? I'd consider a litter box with very low sides - some people even cut one side off completely.
 
Thank you very much for the words of comfort. She pees on herself because she falls asleep and she doesn't control her pee at times of high numbers. It happened 3 times so far...

When she's awake, she goes to the litter box without problem. At the moment, it is difficult for her to get on the bed, the sofa or the chairs but not on the litter box. I also have put two litter boxes with very low sides scattered around the apartment just in case, but the problem is only when she falls asleep...my pour baby girl :/
 
Methyl B-12 for neuropathy it's tasteless ,just sprinkle it on the wet food and add water to it. Give one per day open the capsule sprinkle it on his wet food and add water and mix it up
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
14.49 for 100 capsules

Zobaline is crazy expensive for only 60 pills
Once you start to get Sharess's BG regulated and starting the Methyl B-12 you should start seeing an improvement
Tyler had neuropathy and he's back to walking and jumping
Took about less than 2 months, but every couple of weeks I saw improvement


I think they ship to Spain
Their website is
www.vitacost.com

Give them a call
A lot of us members use or have used this brand


@Vicky & Sharess
 
Vicky & Sharess said:
wow thanks a lot @Diane Tyler's Mom . I already bought this one https://www.amazon.es/Vitamina-B12-1000mcg-Comprimidos-suministro/dp/B09M74Q5GF/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?__mk_es_ES=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2BZIQMJ2FB480&keywords=metilcobalamina&qid=1673142996&sprefix=metilcobalamina,aps,174&sr=8-4-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1 and I see the composition is mostly the same. I will try yours once I finish this one :)

but I can see that mine is 1000mcg and yours is 5000mcg. This means that it's safe to give her 5 pills a day? it won't be too much? o_O
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With yours I would only give her 3 of them, because the zobaline is 3000 MCG

Then a a long time ago a member her time me about the Vitacost brand
Much cheaper then the zobaline

I did see the vitacost is 5000 mcgs but it was fine to give one pill because whatever the cats doesn't need they will pee it out. They are water soluble so the excess is excreted in the urine I have been told this many times from members in here

The one you have I would just give 3 pills :cat:
@Vicky & Sharess
 
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OMG! we forgot the ProZinc on the table after the PMPS for 1h and 17 mins. The current temperature is 9ºC, please tell me that it's not too bad. I am blaming myself right now :arghh:
 
Hello again!

It's being a while because I didn't want to bother you too much, but I really don't know what to do with Sharess' numbers. it's doesn't make any sense because no matter how hard we try, she continues bouncing. On january 20th we did a glucose curve and we had to increase the dosis to 0.75 due the horrible numbers, but she doesn't seem to improve after 4 days.

Should we do more test? Should we change the dosis again? should we change the insuline type? We still can't buy free stile libre here in spain, and we are doing all the test manually. The only good thing is that she looks happy, playfull and as cute as always most of the days, and the ketones are still negative... Any suggestion?
 
Vicky & Sharess said:
Hello again!

It's being a while because I didn't want to bother you too much, but I really don't know what to do with Sharess' numbers. it's doesn't make any sense because no matter how hard we try, she continues bouncing. On january 20th we did a glucose curve and we had to increase the dosis to 0.75 due the horrible numbers, but she doesn't seem to improve after 4 days.

Should we do more test? Should we change the dosis again? should we change the insuline type? We still can't buy free stile libre here in spain, and we are doing all the test manually. The only good thing is that she looks happy, playfull and as cute as always most of the days, and the ketones are still negative... Any suggestion?
Click to expand...
@FrostD

@Suzanne & Darcy
 
Vicky & Sharess said:
Hello again!

It's being a while because I didn't want to bother you too much, but I really don't know what to do with Sharess' numbers. it's doesn't make any sense because no matter how hard we try, she continues bouncing. On january 20th we did a glucose curve and we had to increase the dosis to 0.75 due the horrible numbers, but she doesn't seem to improve after 4 days.

Should we do more test? Should we change the dosis again? should we change the insuline type? We still can't buy free stile libre here in spain, and we are doing all the test manually. The only good thing is that she looks happy, playfull and as cute as always most of the days, and the ketones are still negative... Any suggestion?
Click to expand...
@FrostD

@Suzanne & Darcy

I can try tagging a fee more members but they are not prozinc users ,maybe they can take a look at your SS

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@tiffmaxee

@Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

@Bandit's Mom
 
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Oh good, can someone explain how it's possible that she was 359 at +3, 218 at +5, 273 at +6 and now, she is "hi" (I tested it twice) at +7? I really don't understand it and I starting to worry a lot :___(

She didn't eat. the only thing I gave her was a bit of Malt... maybe it was that? I really know nothing right now...
 
Vicky & Sharess said:
Hello again!

It's being a while because I didn't want to bother you too much, but I really don't know what to do with Sharess' numbers. it's doesn't make any sense because no matter how hard we try, she continues bouncing. On january 20th we did a glucose curve and we had to increase the dosis to 0.75 due the horrible numbers, but she doesn't seem to improve after 4 days.



Should we do more test? Should we change the dosis again? should we change the insuline type? We still can't buy free stile libre here in spain, and we are doing all the test manually. The only good thing is that she looks happy, playfull and as cute as always most of the days, and the ketones are still negative... Any suggestion?
Click to expand...

Sorry no one has gotten back to you yet
I'm going to try again

@FrostD

@Suzanne & Darcy

I can try tagging a fee more members but they are not prozinc users ,maybe they can take a look at your SS

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@tiffmaxee

@Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

@Bandit's Mom
 
You are never any bother by asking questions!! Please ask as many questions as you have.

Since you have increased to 1 unit, please hold that dose for 7 days (14 cycles) — counting from the first cycle that she had one unit. I am sorry about the high numbers! Now, of course, when I say hold the dose at one unit for 14 cycles that means as long as she does not drop below 90. If she drops below 90, that would mean that she would get a .25 unit reduction back down to .75 units. Right now it is not looking like that is very likely to happen, but we do not know at this point for certain. Is this making sense? I just want to be clear.
 
And keep testing for ketones at least once per day. If she has significant ketones we may need to adjust her dose more quickly. You say that her behavior is better and she seems happy. As long as she is not lethargic and she is eating well and staying hydrated, she should be fine.
 
Vicky & Sharess said:
Oh good, can someone explain how it's possible that she was 359 at +3, 218 at +5, 273 at +6 and now, she is "hi" (I tested it twice) at +7? I really don't understand it and I starting to worry a lot :___(

She didn't eat. the only thing I gave her was a bit of Malt... maybe it was that? I really know nothing right now...
Click to expand...
It looks to me that Sharess goes up pretty quickly after she gets into yellow numbers. I think she’s done it again today.
 
Hiiiiiiii

We increased the dose a bit earlier than 14 cycles from 0.75 to 1 because she was having really high numbers and never close to 90. Maybe we did wrong, but we were really scared the moment she started shaking while she sleep with more than 600 in her body. We will mantain the dosis now even if she has high numbers and we only will lower it if she ever drops below 90.

Regarding the ketones, the urine strips indicate "negative" all the time we test her, and her appetite is ok. She plays and purrs as usual. she didn't pee on herlself either.

My questions are:

1) Should we change to Lantus, for example, or 1 month is not enough time to decide?

2) the vet told us that he can give her preventive antibiotic injection just in case Sharess has an undetected infection, but I don't know if this is a good idea, because I read an article for humans that said people under antibiotics have more risk of develop diabetes... Is there any interaction I should know?

Thanks a lot in advance to all of you! You are awesome! <3
 
Vicky & Sharess said:
Hiiiiiiii

We increased the dose a bit earlier than 14 cycles from 0.75 to 1 because she was having really high numbers and never close to 90. Maybe we did wrong, but we were really scared the moment she started shaking while she sleep with more than 600 in her body. We will mantain the dosis now even if she has high numbers and we only will lower it if she ever drops below 90.

Regarding the ketones, the urine strips indicate "negative" all the time we test her, and her appetite is ok. She plays and purrs as usual. she didn't pee on herlself either.

My questions are:

1) Should we change to Lantus, for example, or 1 month is not enough time to decide?

2) the vet told us that he can give her preventive antibiotic injection just in case Sharess has an undetected infection, but I don't know if this is a good idea, because I read an article for humans that said people under antibiotics have more risk of develop diabetes... Is there any interaction I should know?

Thanks a lot in advance to all of you! You are awesome! <3
Click to expand...
I am not a fan of antibiotic injections. The antibiotic known as Convenia here is a long acting antibiotic. One problem with these antibiotic injections is that, if it causes a problem with your cat, there is nothing you can do about it. The antibiotic will be in their body for eight weeks at least. With oral antibiotics, you can always stop giving the medication if your cat has problems with it. In addition, convenient has some potentially dangerous side effects like hemolytic anemia. It is not a common side effect necessarily, but the possibility is there. There is also the problem of antibiotic resistance when antibiotics are given and they are not needed. As long as her ketones continue to be negative and her appetite is study, I do not think she needs an antibiotic.

I do think it is too early to judge whether or not the ProZinc will work for Sharess. I do like Lantus as well.
 
Hello again.

We were finally able to do all the tests on sharess (we had to postpone it for a week because my father was in the hospital). We tested everything (ultrasound, urine tests, blood tests and IGF-1) because Sharess began to feel a lot of pain in her hindquarters and her legs crunch when she walks.

She doesn't have urine infecction but those are the odd numbers:

GLUCOSE: 294 mg/dl (normal values: 59 - 160)
FRUCTOSAMINE: 425 μmol/L (normal values: 137 - 286)
PROTEINS: 7.8 g/dl (normal values: 5.3 - 7.6)
GAMMA - GT <0.5 IU/L (normal values: 0.5 - 11)
TOTAL BILIRUBIN: 0.05 mg/dl (normal values: 0.1 - 0.5)
PANCREATIC LIPASE SP. FELINE (Spec fPL): 3.5 μg/l (normal values: <3.5 ug/l)
URINARY DENSITY: 1018 (normal values: > 1035)

SOMATOMEDIN C (IGF-1): 398 ng/ml (normal values: >665 ng/ml)

Regarding IGF-1, perhaps 398 is a little high, as newly diagnosed diabetic cats are often insulin deficient, which also lowers IGF-1 concentrations, since a significant percentage of the insulin is used by the liver pancreatic for the synthesis and secretion of IGF-1, thus giving false negative results. In addition, in an x-ray they have seen that Sharess has the presence of osteophytes in the joints. What do you think? Could she have Agromegaly, or am I freaking out over nothing? :(

Edit: You can see all the results in details in Sharess' Spreadsheet, in the Spanish Tests 2023 tap.
 
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Vicky & Sharess said:
Hello again.

We were finally able to do all the tests on sharess (we had to postpone it for a week because my father was in the hospital). We tested everything (ultrasound, urine tests, blood tests and IGF-1) because Sharess began to feel a lot of pain in her hindquarters and her legs crunch when she walks.

She doesn't have urine infecction but those are the odd numbers:

GLUCOSE: 294 mg/dl (normal values: 59 - 160)
FRUCTOSAMINE: 425 μmol/L (normal values: 137 - 286)
PROTEINS: 7.8 g/dl (normal values: 5.3 - 7.6)
GAMMA - GT <0.5 IU/L (normal values: 0.5 - 11)
TOTAL BILIRUBIN: 0.05 mg/dl (normal values: 0.1 - 0.5)
PANCREATIC LIPASE SP. FELINE (Spec fPL): 3.5 μg/l (normal values: <3.5 ug/l)
URINARY DENSITY: 1018 (normal values: > 1035)

SOMATOMEDIN C (IGF-1): 398 ng/ml (normal values: >665 ng/ml)

Regarding IGF-1, perhaps 398 is a little high, as newly diagnosed diabetic cats are often insulin deficient, which also lowers IGF-1 concentrations, since a significant percentage of the insulin is used by the liver pancreatic for the synthesis and secretion of IGF-1, thus giving false negative results. In addition, in an x-ray they have seen that Sharess has the presence of osteophytes in the joints. What do you think? Could she have Agromegaly, or am I freaking out over nothing? :(
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@Wendy&Neko
 
In Europe, IGF-1 numbers over 1000 are considered positive, and levels above 700 are considered suspicious. 398 doesn't see that high. However, a study of over 200 cats at the Royal Veterinary College in England showed that cats that are tested for IGF-1 within 73 days of starting insulin can have false negatives. Which is why we usually wait at least that long or suggest retesting after 73 days has passed. We have had one cat here who originally tested negative on the IGF-1 test, then tested positive. You can get your vet to rerun the test in a month if you think it's a concern.

Osteophytes or bone spurs are not uncommon in older cats, diabetic or not. I have had both Neko, diabetic with acromegaly, and another senior cat, not acro that have had bone spurs. Is Solensia available in Spain now? It's a new treatment for arthritis for cats that seems to help quite a few of them.

As for Sharess peeing while sleeping, maybe you should put some puppy pee pads on beds where she sleeps.
 
Hello @Wendy&Neko !

Thank you so much for all the information and your wisdom. It's been 60 days since her diabetes was detected, but we haven't been able to regulate her sugar yet. We are considering a CT scan or an MRI to completely rule out acromegaly, but tomorrow we will discuss the best option with the vet. She also suggested solensia to us, but she said that right now Sharess needed something more immediate, and that's why the vet prescribed cerenia + Buprex + meloxycam. The weird thing about all of this is that the sharp pain and crunching in her paws has been in a matter of a few days, so all my worried mom alarms have gone off.

On the top of this, Sharess looks like she's got a cold, because she expels green snot through her nose, although the blood analysis does not seem to specify any particular infection. after the medicine she has lost her appetite, but the pain is much more bearable. With regard to peeing while she sleeps, since we've been giving her methylcobalamin, she hasn't peed on herself again. However, we have already put puppy pee pads on her, just in case.

Thanks a lot for your advices. I will keep you in touch!! <3
 
Some cats just take longer than others to regulate. I was thrilled, when a year after starting insulin, Neko finally bounced to pinks instead of reds. :rolleyes:

I would save your money and not do the CT or MRI for now. Wait and redo the IGF-1 in a month. CT and MRI involves anaesthesia, and I'd save that for necessary procedures with an older cat. In fact, very few people here even follow a positive IGF-1 test with a CT or MRI. Sharess is also on quite a small dose of insulin, and the average dose for acros is quite a bit higher.

Can you get l-lysine there? It seems to help with upper respiratory infections.
 
Vicky & Sharess said:
Hello @Wendy&Neko !

Thank you so much for all the information and your wisdom. It's been 60 days since her diabetes was detected, but we haven't been able to regulate her sugar yet. We are considering a CT scan or an MRI to completely rule out acromegaly, but tomorrow we will discuss the best option with the vet. She also suggested solensia to us, but she said that right now Sharess needed something more immediate, and that's why the vet prescribed cerenia + Buprex + meloxycam. The weird thing about all of this is that the sharp pain and crunching in her paws has been in a matter of a few days, so all my worried mom alarms have gone off.

On the top of this, Sharess looks like she's got a cold, because she expels green snot through her nose, although the blood analysis does not seem to specify any particular infection. after the medicine she has lost her appetite, but the pain is much more bearable. With regard to peeing while she sleeps, since we've been giving her methylcobalamin, she hasn't peed on herself again. However, we have already put puppy pee pads on her, just in case.

Thanks a lot for your advices. I will keep you in touch!! <3
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I would have my cat on an antibiotic if there was green snot.
 
Sharess got a really bad calicivirus when she was 3 years old when our Desna started being a part of our family. It's a long story, but both were really sick and we even had to use interferon to save them. Since then, they suffer coffing episodes and we had been using l-lysine since then in a regular base, specially during season changes. This is the first time in 13 years that Sharess has green snot. She started around 3 month ago and we when to the vet by that time, but that vet didn't even consider the antibiotic mesures and he just said "nah, this is just another calicivirus episode".

After that, she had an ear and eye infection and then, the vet put am injection of antibiotic that lasted for 15 days. That made the ear and eye infection went away, but few days later, she started with glucose issues.

I dont know if all this is related or she just had been incredible unlucky, but thanks a lot for your advices. I will talk to my new vet tomorrow (one specialized in cats) to see how to procede :)
 
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