10/4 Newman AMPS 260 shot 1.25, PMPS 379 shot 1.25

Linda and Newman

Linda and Newman

Active Member
Previous thread: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-26-newman-amps-162-stall-171-stall-199-reduce-dose.268877/


I will skip AM dose based on low BG and the fact that we are experiencing disruption to normal household routines as we deal with the impact of the hurricane on our area. Waking up this morning with increased storm effects.

The pets, Newman, Ozzie and the dog, Minnie are spooked by the storm and the sounds associated with it. I would not expect the emergency vet to be available and it is not safe to be on the road for the next 24 hours or so.
 
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Good morning, Linda! How is it there right now? I saw that there have been a lot of tornado warnings and that there’s been rain. What have the winds been like? Do y’all have all of the hatches battened down for the storm? Did your son put up the hurricane shutters, etc? My family, who are very close to you, eventually got permanent some permanent shutters and impact glass. We have loads of evacuated Floridians here right now. I feel sorry for them. At least you aren’t getting a direct hit on the Atlantic side. Keep us posted so we know you are okay. Sorry the kitties and Minnie are frightened.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Good morning, Linda! How is it there right now? I saw that there have been a lot of tornado warnings and that there’s been rain. What have the winds been like? Do y’all have all of the hatches battened down for the storm? Did your son put up the hurricane shutters, etc? My family, who are very close to you, eventually got permanent some permanent shutters and impact glass. We have loads of evacuated Floridians here right now. I feel sorry for them. At least you aren’t getting a direct hit on the Atlantic side. Keep us posted so we know you are okay. Sorry the kitties and Minnie are frightened.
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Hi Suzanne, good to see you. Woke up this morning and it has turned out to be a bit more of a storm than when I went to bed last night! But that is the nature of hurricanes and tropical storms. There was a lot of wind overnight and a confirmed tornado in the area. Our shutters are colonial shutters, so they remain in place, hinged so it is simple as folding them closed. That is not necessary for this one. The boys removed any items in the yard, chairs, birdbaths and hanging plants and so forth. Cars are in the garages. There are long periods of relative calm between the bands that precede the eye. We are on the edge of the hurricane, so we will get increasing tropical storm winds as the storm moves north, after coming ashore on the west coast. Being on the east coast, we will not get hurricane force winds. Our sustained winds should only be 30-40 mph with gusts to 60-70. We've been through worse. Thanks for asking.
 
FrostD said:
Depends if you can be off schedule for a little while...

Hope everything turns out ok with hurricane!
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Thanks, Melissa. I don't want to get this far off schedule, looking at the evening dose at 10 PM or later. Speaking of which, do I just pick up the schedule this evening at the usual time?
 
Funny, I was just sitting here thinking about you all. I was thinking that I wish you had given at least a small dose to help keep him on a more even keel. It would put you off schedule a lot though. You may want to just shoot for tonight?
 
Linda and Newman said:
Hi Suzanne, good to see you. Woke up this morning and it has turned out to be a bit more of a storm than when I went to bed last night! But that is the nature of hurricanes and tropical storms. There was a lot of wind overnight and a confirmed tornado in the area. Our shutters are colonial shutters, so they remain in place, hinged so it is simple as folding them closed. That is not necessary for this one. The boys removed any items in the yard, chairs, birdbaths and hanging plants and so forth. Cars are in the garages. There are long periods of relative calm between the bands that precede the eye. We are on the edge of the hurricane, so we will get increasing tropical storm winds as the storm moves north, after coming ashore on the west coast. Being on the east coast, we will not get hurricane force winds. Our sustained winds should only be 30-40 mph with gusts to 60-70. We've been through worse. Thanks for asking.
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Oh, the colonial shutters are my favorites... of course, it really depends upon the style of your house as to which ones look best (but I'm from Virginia... so you know I'm fond of colonial architecture!) :-) Yes, I know you've been through worse (even in recent years). We have too. I'm actually hoping to get some rain out of this storm, but hopefully nothing too bad.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
How are you, Linda? I see the normal dose brought Newman into blue so that is good.
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Good morning! I was also glad to see that blue number last night. Even this morning, I would not have been surprised to see a higher fasting BG. Hopefully the interruption didn't do too much damage in his process

Lots of debris from the trees and palm fronds down, still feeling tropical storm wind gusts, but no other concerns for us. The wind today will help to dry out all the stuff that wasn't supposed to get wet!

I trust that your family down here is well.
 
Yep. Everybody is well (including new baby we just had added to the family) :-) It's pretty windy here today in Georgia, but I honestly don't think we are going to see a drop of rain since the whole thing is moving east. Hope everything is dried out soon!
 
Good morning, Linda. Let's take a look at his SS and see what history will tell us... but that is quite low for him. Did you test that number only once? If not that's fine, just do what you already have planned and retest in 30 minutes.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Good morning, Linda. Let's take a look at his SS and see what history will tell us... but that is quite low for him. Did you test that number only once? If not that's fine, just do what you already have planned and retest in 30 minutes.
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After 30 minutes he tested at 122. Guidelines tell me if below 150, skip. It seems like I should give some kind of dose, say 1.0 units or less. Looking back on his SS, in early August, 8/12 he had 138 and I skipped. He got pink later in the day, but the next day he had blue, so it didn't last long.

What do you see, Suzanne?
 
This low of a number is really unprecedented for him. You can skip, but we know what will happen and he will go too high. I was thinking of maybe a 1 unit dose, too.
 
Well yes, why don't you feed him and wait a little to make sure it's not a vomit day. Can you feed him just a little at first? Small amounts doled out?
 
Linda and Newman said:
ooking back on his SS, in early August, 8/12 he had 138 and I skipped. He got pink later in the day, but the next day he had blue, so it didn't last long.
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I noticed this same day because it was one of the lowest. I don't think the skip was a great idea because within 6 hours he was in the pink, but as you say, he got back on track with the next cycle. I just think if you can give some insulin it will help keep those pinks at bay.
 
Naturally, he went under the bed after eating, so it is impossible for me to be 100% sure that he is keeping his food down. I did feed a small amount, less than 1/3 can FF, but that is what I normally do so that he comes back for treat and shoot after breakfast.

I will coax him out and test again, for my peace of mind, and then give him 1 unit. At least it is the AM cycle so I have the best chance of tracking his numbers. Normally, he will be grazing most of the morning, so he should be covered by food.

I see that he moved to the porch when I wasn't looking. It is a nice cool morning here.

I appreciate your input and guidance, as usual.
 
Well.... just let me know how he does and what you decided to do. You've got this, Linda. Whatever you decide ... it will all be okay. :-)
 
Glad that worked out!

Any ideas about the low number? Did he eat like usual last night?

Normally I'd say that's reduction worthy as a precaution, but I also don't really want to reduce...
 
FrostD said:
Glad that worked out!

Any ideas about the low number? Did he eat like usual last night?

Normally I'd say that's reduction worthy as a precaution, but I also don't really want to reduce...
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I can't think of anything unusual to cause the low number. He actually ate more yesterday, his full allotment rather than leave any at the end of the day. I was planning to ask generally, why he may be getting more response to the insulin in the overnight cycles, compared to daytime? He does seem to sleep most of the day and comes alive at dinner time and into the night when I am going to bed.

If I do get up during the night, I always find him sleeping somewhere and he responds to me when I talk to him. Then as I wake in the morning his is laying on me!

I have not fed any food today other than his usual LC Fancy Feast Pate. So he seems to be holding his own if we look at the numbers today. Yellow, but on the low end. A bit surprising that 1 unit is effective today.

I wish I could get a test during the night to get a better idea. I have tried and it's just isn't happening. Can you make a good guess as to how low he must be going to produce the lower AMPS values?
 
Linda and Newman said:
I can't think of anything unusual to cause the low number. He actually ate more yesterday, his full allotment rather than leave any at the end of the day. I was planning to ask generally, why he may be getting more response to the insulin in the overnight cycles, compared to daytime? He does seem to sleep most of the day and comes alive at dinner time and into the night when I am going to bed.

If I do get up during the night, I always find him sleeping somewhere and he responds to me when I talk to him. Then as I wake in the morning his is laying on me!

I have not fed any food today other than his usual LC Fancy Feast Pate. So he seems to be holding his own if we look at the numbers today. Yellow, but on the low end. A bit surprising that 1 unit is effective today.

I wish I could get a test during the night to get a better idea. I have tried and it's just isn't happening. Can you make a good guess as to how low he must be going to produce the lower AMPS values?
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You started a new vial of insulin a day or two ago.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You started a new vial of insulin a day or two ago.
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You're right, I hadn/t thought of that. I started a new vial with the AM dose on the 27th. The old one was 10 days short of 3 months old, so not that old and I would say properly handled. But you never know.

Is this something you see?
 
He was relatively flat to +3 last night, so (and this is obviously me throwing a dart at the dartboard) my guess is around 60-70. So technically still safe numbers, but definitely something to think about in your situation.

I suspect he's just "more nocturnal" than most, and drops lower at night. Most cats do, but some more dramatically than others.
 
Linda and Newman said:
I'm curious, is there an explanation or theory as to why this happens?
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Theory has to do with circadian rhythm, be sure they're nocturnal and more active at night. I can't say it's ever been proven though! Just something we've noticed with a lot of cats. Mr Kitty is pretty darn nocturnal - he's up roaming and playing basically all night - and he did always run lower at night (once we hit a breakthrough dose anyway).
 
FrostD said:
He was relatively flat to +3 last night, so (and this is obviously me throwing a dart at the dartboard) my guess is around 60-70. So technically still safe numbers, but definitely something to think about in your situation.

How would I address that to get some control of those suspected lows overnight. I can only imagine going with a lower with dose in the evening?
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Seeing as this was more of a fluke, no I wouldn't do a different dose just yet. We try to keep consistent dosing whenever possible as that seems to work best for most cats.

Yes I'd have done the 2f...now we just hope he doesn't dive like he did 2 nights ago...
 
Yikes!
What to do next. I will stall, but I think it will take a while to come up to a number, safe to shoot. Left on my own, I would skip but I definitely need and want advice on this one.

ETA: got 68 repeated immediately to check strip/meter and got 69

@Suzanne & Darcy
@FrostD
 
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
Isn't it a little early this morning to be doing that test? I thought you shot at 8:15 p.m. last night. And you tested around what... 7:15 a.m.?
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Correct. I was aiming to move the schedule back closer to the 7:00 - 8:00 hour. The 81 was at 7:30 this morning.
Should I test again at 7:45? That would be within the 30 minute allowable fluctuation if I am correct?
 
81? But your spreadsheet says 68. I am confused. But to answer the other part of your post, you are correct that you can test again at 7:45 and use that as your PMPS if you don't want to stall any further. He's definitely going to bounce from this.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
81? But your spreadsheet says 68. I am confused. But to answer the other part of your post, you are correct that you can test again at 7:45 and use that as your PMPS if you don't want to stall any further. He's definitely going to bounce from this.
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Sorry, I added the 81 to the thread title and did not add to SS.
He is having no parts of any more testing, waiting at the feeding area for breakfast. I will assume that he won't be too much changed in the 15 minutes since the 81, so I will feed and decide on a reduced, token dose. I need to give the amount of that dose some thought. I'm not a quick thinker with this stuff. What do you think would be a reasonable dose?

Minnie and Ozzie are getting annoyed at the delay! LOL
 
I'm thinking .25 unit or skip. What do you think? However, yesterday you fed, and he went up to 181 (according to the notes on your SS) before you shot the 1 unit. So if that's happening again today you may want to repeat that (if you're shooting after the food bump/natural rise as the insulin wears off.)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
However, yesterday you fed, and he went up to 181 (according to the notes on your SS) before you shot the 1 unit. So if that's happening again today you may want to repeat that (if you're shooting after the food bump/natural rise as the insulin wears off.)
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I'm thinking the same thing :)
He's on his way up - it's the exact same amount of a rise in the 30 minute stall as yesterday, just starting a little lower today.
 
Well he sure answered that reduction question in dramatic fashion :eek:

I'm suspecting he has late nadir when he breaks the bounces, I just don't know how late. But as Suzanne said, a reduction is in order. At least a 0.25U reduction...0.5U might be better in your situation+ we're not really sure just how low he went the last few times.
 
FrostD said:
Well he sure answered that reduction question in dramatic fashion :eek:

I'm suspecting he has late nadir when he breaks the bounces, I just don't know how late. But as Suzanne said, a reduction is in order. At least a 0.25U reduction...0.5U might be better in your situation+ we're not really sure just how low he went the last few times.
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His numbers have been pretty good today on the 0.5 units this morning. He may be eating a little bit less than usual. Still very interested in the Dr Elsey's chicken kibble for testing treats.

I will reduce to 1.5 units this evening assuming his PMPS is 250-ish.
 
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