5/31 Henry's DKA recovery

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Just to add: I did feed him about 10-15 minutes pre-test since he is way too fired up (to get fed) to sit still long enough for me to test him.
 
when they say newbies should post first before shooting under 200, it is to make sure you are prepared to monitor kitty with plenty of test strips, low-carb and high carb food, etc

I dont know if Bron will respond it's 6am in Sydney but if I were you, I would go ahead with the shot as long as you're going to monitor
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
when they say newbies should post first before shooting under 200, it is to make sure you are prepared to monitor kitty with plenty of test strips, low-carb and high carb food, etc

I dont know if Bron will respond it's 6am in Sydney but if I were you, I would go ahead with the shot as long as you're going to monitor
Click to expand...

OK, I'll go ahead and monitor closely. Thank you for the response. I've got some Karo syrup all ready to go just in case.
 
John & Henry said:
Are Hendrick and shylo both siamese? Yeah, the talkativeness is at a whole other level with Henry. If he wants something he's not afraid to ask. Sometimes he'll get in this mood where everytime i pet him he'll meow. One meow per pet. Its like having an anametronic cat. Henry used to try and wake me up in the morning, but I taught him, if he did that I'd make him wait an hour or two before I'd feed him, whereas he'd get fed immediately if he didn't wake me up. So I usually wake up with him sitting right next to my head staring at me quietly.

I notice most people post on the board under their respective insulin type. Should I create the new thread over in the Lantus group or here?
Click to expand...

Answering here...

Yes Hen and Shy are both Siamese. Blue Point and Lilac Point.

And yes now that you've introduced yourself, you can start posting a daily thread in the Lantus/Levenmir/Biosimilars forum. The daily threads are called "condos" for some reason that nobody can remember, and you post in a specific format that shares Henry's AMPS/PMPS and any tests in between. You'll see all the thread titles are like:

5/28 Hendrick AMPS 101 +4 68

When posting a daily thread, remember to always include a link in the OP to the previous day's condo. I am over there in that forum daily, see you there! :D
 
oh and lol @ your description of how Henry meows with every pat. Hendrick can be very vocal like that as well and his meows will have such variances in inflection, tone and volume it is remarkable.

in fact one of the symptoms of his diabetes, though we did not know it at the time, was his voice changed a little and became more, shall we say...croaky. We noticed but we laughed it off, thought it sounded extra adorable. Didn't even think to consider it might indicate an issue with his health. His voice would get like that in particular when begging for food.
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
oh and lol @ your description of how Henry meows with every pat. Hendrick can be very vocal like that as well and his meows will have such variances in inflection, tone and volume it is remarkable.

in fact one of the symptoms of his diabetes, though we did not know it at the time, was his voice changed a little and became more, shall we say...croaky. We noticed but we laughed it off, thought it sounded extra adorable. Didn't even think to consider it might indicate an issue with his health. His voice would get like that in particular when begging for food.
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Interesting about the "coaky" sound. Now that you say that, I noticed the same thing! And yes, the range and types of sounds they make are very unique and varied. not to mention they can sometimes just be down right mouthy. He'll do long demanding meows (I'm not sure meow is even the right word, its more like he's yelling at me) if he wants something.
 
Hi John, I was fast asleep at 6 am…middle of the night for me! I’m not an early riser. I’m glad Lyle was there for you.
Because this is the lowest preshot you have shot, I would get a +2 to see how it’s going . It’s probably a bit past +2 now but can you get a BG when you see this please. That’s good news the ketones have dropped again.
 
John & Henry said:
Hi @Bron and Sheba (GA) Just did a BG (its about +4 right now) and we're at 103. So pretty low. Glad it's under control. You think I should check it every hour?
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Hi John, looks like the Lantus dose is starting to work well. That’s good.
Did you give a small snack of low carb food after the +4 test? You will be giving lots of snacks during the cycles so hopefully Henry had one around +4.
Just a FYI. When you shoot a lower than normal preshot BG, I would always get a +1 and a+2 to see what Henry has in mind. It’s just safer than getting the first test around +4 and finding they have dropped dramatically…….not that Henry has….but it can happen.
Yes, I would get an hourly test for the next couple of hours so we can see how low he is going to drop. It is all good data at this early stage. He is still in very safe numbers.

I will also get you to have a look at the two dosing methods we have. Because of the DKA, I would recommend the tight regulation method but you need to not be feeding any dry food to do that.
DOSING METHODS
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi John, looks like the Lantus dose is starting to work well. That’s good.
Did you give a small snack of low carb food after the +4 test? You will be giving lots of snacks during the cycles so hopefully Henry had one around +4.
Just a FYI. When you shoot a lower than normal preshot BG, I would always get a +1 and a+2 to see what Henry has in mind. It’s just safer than getting the first test around +4 and finding they have dropped dramatically…….not that Henry has….but it can happen.
Yes, I would get an hourly test for the next couple of hours so we can see how low he is going to drop. It is all good data at this early stage. He is still in very safe numbers.

I will also get you to have a look at the two dosing methods we have. Because of the DKA, I would recommend the tight regulation method but you need to not be feeding any dry food to do that.
DOSING METHODS
Click to expand...

Yeah, I meant to do a +2 but lost track of time. Will start doing it hourly. Outside of occasional treats, he's 100% wet food. I'll read up on the tight regulation method. So much to learn about... Thank you for your help!
 
Hi John, welcome to the forum. I'm also from the PNW, live on the WA side of the Columbia River & look out my window at OR, about a mile away. I read your previous condo & wow, what a horrible week you've had. I'm so glad you have your boy home and found this group; as you can see by their replies you are in excellent hands. We all came with our unique challenges (I have a very skittish but super sweet 'barn' cat who won't be held) but this pool is very deep and there's always someone who has experienced something similar who can offer tips.

Some of my tips:
  • Get some calipers for dosing; I feel much more confident in dosing, especially with 1/4 units. I switched from my hubbies 6"ers to the 4" & like the smaller size
  • I was surprised that my local RiteAid had the best price on the generic glargine insulin pens so it's worth price shopping online & locally.
  • Thanks to this group, I found adwdiabetes.com for syringes. I tended to 'shoot through' & like the shorter 5/16 needle.
  • I use the ReliOn tester & strips, turned the sound off because it made my scardey cat tense up
  • I started with the ReliOn tan lancets (28?) but now use the blue ones (31?) & hand prick w/ just my finger behind then squeeze with a bit of tissue to keep from scabbing. Her poor ears in the beginning, but we're both very good at it now
  • I set alarms for when I want to test & shoot each day & I label each day's syringes because one time my old brain couldn't remember if I'd shot (lack of sleep is common here)
  • I'm a work from home data nerd, test a lot to try to see her patterns & frequently do hourly binges or focus days to hone in on where she drops. This can be very helpful once you're in steady greens to know when to look for the lime. Mause loves to dive at +3, especially at night so I know to feed her some carbs and test early in the cycle

Love the thumbs; the kitty I adopted in college had thumbs and was very good at picking things up with her paws - Cheeto's were her favorite, she'd grab one out of the bag and eat it while still holding on.

Looking forward to seeing your progress. Be patient, don't be too hard on yourself & know that you're the best human Henry can have right now.
You've got this!
 
John & Henry said:
Down to 87 @ +5 giving treats.
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dude that's freaking awesome he is responding well to the Lantus already

some people go months before their first green! Looks like he is nadir'ing around +5 or +6

what are these treats? if I were you, instead of treats I would offer some low carb canned food, something around 5-10% calories from carbs

this is something you'll learn about, that we care about the caloric load delivered by carbs in the meal as a percentage of the entire calories delivered by the meal -- not the percentage of carbs in the food itself. A little confusing I know.
 
Going to respond to some of your messages in 1 sec, but wanted to update. We're at 65 @+6.5 & getting a little worried. Giving more treats and getting the syrup ready just in case.
 
John & Henry said:
Going to respond to some of your messages in 1 sec, but wanted to update. We're at 65 @+6.5 & getting a little worried. Giving more treats and getting the syrup ready just in case.
Click to expand...
He’s still quite safe at 65. He’s probably at or near nadir. Don’t give any syrup at this stage but I would give a small low carb snack instead of treats.
Test again at +7 please
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
He’s still quite safe at 65. He’s probably at or near nadir. Don’t give any syrup at this stage but I would give a small low carb snack instead of treats.
Test again at +7 please
Click to expand...
At 9 minutes to +7 we're @ 71 so that's good. He loves this "purina pro plan dental health" sampler they gave at the vet, but I was kinda shocked when I looked up the carb count and it's 32%! He hasn't eaten a ton, but hopefully it's brining BG up a little. I'll test again at +7.5
 
John & Henry said:
At 9 minutes to +7 we're @ 71 so that's good. He loves this "purina pro plan dental health" sampler they gave at the vet, but I was kinda shocked when I looked up the carb count and it's 32%! He hasn't eaten a ton, but hopefully it's brining BG up a little. I'll test again at +7.5
Click to expand...
I would put those 32% treats away and only get them out if the BG drops below 50.
Remember the green BGs are the healing BGs and we want Henry to stay in them as long as possible.
Are you giving him lots of snacks during then cycles?
How much of the canned chicken are you giving? The reason I am asking is because it is not a complete food for cats…doesn’t have added taurine, calcium etc that they need. As long as it is only being given as treats or the occasional snack that is fine but make sure he is getting nutritionally complete cat food for the rest of the time.
 
Susan for Artemis (Maus) said:
Hi John, welcome to the forum. I'm also from the PNW, live on the WA side of the Columbia River & look out my window at OR, about a mile away. I read your previous condo & wow, what a horrible week you've had. I'm so glad you have your boy home and found this group; as you can see by their replies you are in excellent hands. We all came with our unique challenges (I have a very skittish but super sweet 'barn' cat who won't be held) but this pool is very deep and there's always someone who has experienced something similar who can offer tips.

Some of my tips:
  • Get some calipers for dosing; I feel much more confident in dosing, especially with 1/4 units. I switched from my hubbies 6"ers to the 4" & like the smaller size
  • I was surprised that my local RiteAid had the best price on the generic glargine insulin pens so it's worth price shopping online & locally.
  • Thanks to this group, I found adwdiabetes.com for syringes. I tended to 'shoot through' & like the shorter 5/16 needle.
  • I use the ReliOn tester & strips, turned the sound off because it made my scardey cat tense up
  • I started with the ReliOn tan lancets (28?) but now use the blue ones (31?) & hand prick w/ just my finger behind then squeeze with a bit of tissue to keep from scabbing. Her poor ears in the beginning, but we're both very good at it now
  • I set alarms for when I want to test & shoot each day & I label each day's syringes because one time my old brain couldn't remember if I'd shot (lack of sleep is common here)
  • I'm a work from home data nerd, test a lot to try to see her patterns & frequently do hourly binges or focus days to hone in on where she drops. This can be very helpful once you're in steady greens to know when to look for the lime. Mause loves to dive at +3, especially at night so I know to feed her some carbs and test early in the cycle

Love the thumbs; the kitty I adopted in college had thumbs and was very good at picking things up with her paws - Cheeto's were her favorite, she'd grab one out of the bag and eat it while still holding on.

Looking forward to seeing your progress. Be patient, don't be too hard on yourself & know that you're the best human Henry can have right now.
You've got this!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the tips Susan. I'm a work from home IT geek myself so intend to keep a close eye on his numbers. I think I've finally got the "pokey" down, was using 31g lancets, but my 28g ones came today and i dont know if its that, my technique is getting better or Henry is getting more used to it, but its been much easier today. It's crazy how they're able to use their "thumbs" to manipulate stuff. Funny how yours liked cheetos, Henry goes absolutely nuts over white cheddar popcorn and has since he was a kitten.

I can't imagine how difficult it would be to perform this several times a day on a cat that is skiddish and doesn't like to be held. Yikes. This whole situation has sort of been the center of my universe the last week, but setting an alarm is probably a good idea, I'll do that. I like the idea of putting the syringes in a cup too. Now that both Henry and I are getting used to the pokey I should probably do a curve. Adwdiabeties looks great. Excellent prices & selection. I got some of the harbor freight calipers, and been reading up on technique. I'm very glad I found this community, everyone is awesome.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I would put those 32% treats away and only get them out if the BG drops below 50.
Remember the green BGs are the healing BGs and we want Henry to stay in them as long as possible.
Are you giving him lots of snacks during then cycles?
How much of the canned chicken are you giving? The reason I am asking is because it is not a complete food for cats…doesn’t have added taurine, calcium etc that they need. As long as it is only being given as treats or the occasional snack that is fine but make sure he is getting nutritionally complete cat food for the rest of the time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's only had a small amount of that high carb food. I had no idea it was that high til I just looked it up, but I'd say he's had less than a 1/4 cup total over the last 2 days. I'll stop giving that. He's been getting his normal friskies twice a day, but he's only been eating about half the can each time. I started giving the chicken intermittently yesterday when we found the ketones, just to try and get him to eat (and drink) more. Been mixing water in with it. He really hasnt had any treats outside the chicken and that high carb food (which I didn't realize was so high). He's reverting back to his old ways, he begs for food, but then he's only Luke warm on actually eating it, he's been like this his whole life until the last 6 months when he would devour anything given to him.
 
John & Henry said:
Yeah, he's only had a small amount of that high carb food. I had no idea it was that high til I just looked it up, but I'd say he's had less than a 1/4 cup total over the last 2 days. I'll stop giving that. He's been getting his normal friskies twice a day, but he's only been eating about half the can each time. I started giving the chicken intermittently yesterday when we found the ketones, just to try and get him to eat (and drink) more. Been mixing water in with it. He really hasn't had any treats outside the chicken and that high carb food (which I didn't realize was so high). He's reverting back to his old ways, he begs for food, but then he's only Luke warm on actually eating it, he's been like this his whole life until the last 6 months when he would devour anything given to him.
Click to expand...

Ay the moment we just want him to eat 1 and a 1/2 times as much as he normally does, so eating is more important than what he eats for now. So if he only wants the chicken in water that's fine as long as it's short term. Its great the ketones have reduced again. Well done.
Most treats for cats are high carb. It is really bad that cat food manufacturers are allowed to produce and promote high carb rubbish and I'm constantly surprised that vets sell it. There are low carb treats out there for cats but I can't help you with th, as I live in Australia and I don't feed my cats anything but a homemade raw diet.

There is no need to do a curve by the way as you are testing enough for us to see what is happening.
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
dude that's freaking awesome he is responding well to the Lantus already

some people go months before their first green! Looks like he is nadir'ing around +5 or +6

what are these treats? if I were you, instead of treats I would offer some low carb canned food, something around 5-10% calories from carbs

this is something you'll learn about, that we care about the caloric load delivered by carbs in the meal as a percentage of the entire calories delivered by the meal -- not the percentage of carbs in the food itself. A little confusing I know.
Click to expand...

So the only treats I even have around here beside the canned chicken and that awful high carb cat food sampler, are beef temptations which I've traditionally only given him 6-8 peices around bed time, he's really only Luke warm on them and doesn't always even eat them all. The carb percent and caloric load from carbs is a bit confusing and even worse is none of the packaging has any information on carbs! I've looked at that PDF posted around here, but it seems kinda limited on all the available brands (or at least what I have). I'll try and study up on it tho.
 
So he just had his dinner (friskies) about an hour ago. Just took his +11 and it's at 165. Little worried about giving the shot, but I'm glad it's not super low anymore. I'm guessing it'll go up a bit more in the next hour before the PM shot. Do you think it'll be safe to give? Especially since his AMPS is usually fairly low, although it's not like I have much data yet...
 
Post the PMPS and don't feed before talking to me....and I will watch out for it. He will most likely keep rising and will be fine to shoot.
Can you get a ketone reading before posting as well please?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Post the PMPS and don't feed before talking to me....and I will watch out for it. He will most likely keep rising and will be fine to shoot.
Can you get a ketone reading before posting as well please?
Click to expand...

Ugh, so the spreadsheet has went "read only" again. Last time this happened I thought I fixed it by renaming it, but that didn't work this time. I've seen other people say it'll just start working again on its own, so we'll see.

Anyway, his PMPS is 231, ketones are .5 ... guess it should be pretty safe to give the shot then?
 
John & Henry said:
Ugh, so the spreadsheet has went "read only" again. Last time this happened I thought I fixed it by renaming it, but that didn't work this time. I've seen other people say it'll just start working again on its own, so we'll see.

Anyway, his PMPS is 231, ketones are .5 ... guess it should be pretty safe to give the shot then?
Click to expand...
Yes I think you are fine to feed and give the shot. Can you monitor this cycle?
Don't be surprised or worried if the BGs continue to rise this cycle. It will be because Henry is bouncing from the lovely green numbers today.
Bounces can last from 1 to 6 cycles and there is nothing you can do about them
Ill tag @Bandit's Mom to have a look at your SS for you.

Excellent the ketones are still down.:D Keep up the great work!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Yes I think you are fine to feed and give the shot. Can you monitor this cycle?
Don't be surprised or worried if the BGs continue to rise this cycle. It will be because Henry is bouncing from the lovely green numbers today.
Bounces can last from 1 to 6 cycles and there is nothing you can do about them
Ill tag @Bandit's Mom to have a look at your SS for you.

Excellent the ketones are still down.:D Keep up the great work!
Click to expand...

Thanks. I just read if you open the SS on a different device that might unlock it and that did the trick... this time anyway. Apparently this is a known issue with Google sheets they apparently aren't in any rush to fix. I'll continue to monitor and update the SS. Thank you for all the help.
 
I'm glad you were able to fix the SS. They can be frustrating.
The 1 unit is a good dose for Henry and he is responding really well to the insulin. Many cats don't see a green BG for weeks or months.
We will stay with that dose for now, unless he drops under 50, when we would decrease the dose, or he gets high ketones when we would need to increase the dose..
 
John & Henry said:
Ugh, so the spreadsheet has went "read only" again. Last time this happened I thought I fixed it by renaming it, but that didn't work this time. I've seen other people say it'll just start working again on its own, so we'll see.
Click to expand...
This is a Google Sheets bug, I think. It didn't happen for a long time with mine and I'd wonder why others were reporting it. But I'm getting it now too. It resolves on its own. You don't get the error when accessing the SS on a computer/ laptop via the browser - only when using the phone.
 
Hu John what a nice cycle Henry is having In your title above you should put AMPS before the 182, then when you want to add more tests that you do you will look to the right and you will see the word Thread Tools tap on that then tap on Edit Title add you tests and tap Save , When the night cycle comes go back and put his PMPS # tap Save and you can continue to add more night time tests.
When you do go over to start posting on the lantus forum you will put
Date Henry AMPS # and any tests after that like I explained
Always link the previous days post to it
So if you start posting on n it today 5-29 you will link this days post to it
 
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I see you were asking about treats I did a search you can give any freeze fried treats ,they are all low carb

You can give her any freeze dried treats for a snack
most members give freeze dried treats , they are low carb, you can probably find them in some local pet stores also
I did a search for you on here and copied what some members said they use,

When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P





Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...ocphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-630511512365&psc=1

Flavor Name: Duck Liver
Ahi Tuna
  • Chicken
  • Chicken Giblets
  • Chicken Hearts
  • Duck Liver
  • Minnows
  • Rabbit
Here is another one
You can give her any freeze dried treats for a snack
most members give freeze dried treats , they are low carb, you can probably find them in some local pet stores also
I did a search for you on here and copied what some members said they use,

When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P

Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...ocphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-630511512365&psc=1

Flavor Name: Duck Liver
Ahi Tuna
  • Chicken
  • Chicken Giblets
  • Chicken Hearts
  • Duck Liver
  • Minnows
  • Rabbit
Here is another one Halo Live A Littles
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=halo liv a littles&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqM3npIiF-AIVEYnICh2PtQK6EAAYAyAAEgL--PD_BwE&hvadid=176944855419&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&he

https://www.amazon.com/Halo-Littles...ords=halo+live+a+little&qid=1653847544&sr=8-1

Looks like they have other flavors also
@John & Henry
 
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Hi everyone,

AMPS was 320 and ketones are .8 SS is view only again and switching mobile devices didn't fix it this time. I'll try it from a laptop momentarily. Henry is becoming increasingly picky o_O I'm going to research foods more today and see if I can find something he likes more. He is hungry and begs for food, except what I'm feeding him apparently isn't cutting it. Including human Chicken. He's also not consuming as much water as he was. I tried to get him to drink from the tap like he usually loves to do last night , but he wasn't having it. I'm thinking about picking up some bone broth to see if that might entice him to consume some liquids. I'll to go to petsmart today and get a variety of food and treats.

Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I see you were asking about treats I did a search you can give any freeze fried treats ,they are all low carb

You can give her any freeze dried treats for a snack
most members give freeze dried treats , they are low carb, you can probably find them in some local pet stores also
I did a search for you on here and copied what some members said they use,

When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P





Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...ocphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-630511512365&psc=1

Flavor Name: Duck Liver
Ahi Tuna
  • Chicken
  • Chicken Giblets
  • Chicken Hearts
  • Duck Liver
  • Minnows
  • Rabbit
Here is another one
You can give her any freeze dried treats for a snack
most members give freeze dried treats , they are low carb, you can probably find them in some local pet stores also
I did a search for you on here and copied what some members said they use,

When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P

Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...ocphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-630511512365&psc=1

Flavor Name: Duck Liver
Ahi Tuna
  • Chicken
  • Chicken Giblets
  • Chicken Hearts
  • Duck Liver
  • Minnows
  • Rabbit
Here is another one Halo Live A Littles
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=halo liv a littles&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqM3npIiF-AIVEYnICh2PtQK6EAAYAyAAEgL--PD_BwE&hvadid=176944855419&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&he

https://www.amazon.com/Halo-Littles-Natural-Chicken-2-2-Ounce/dp/B00027CL5S/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqM3npIiF-AIVEYnICh2PtQK6EAAYAyAAEgL--PD_BwE&hvadid=176944855419&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8056589744294055826&hvtargid=kwd-1345172781&hydadcr=8874_9763367&keywords=halo live a little&qid=1653847544&sr=8-1

Looks like they have other flavors also
@John & Henry
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Thank you for those recommendations! I will definitely try all of those, especially the freeze dried treats. It's so hard to know what to get.

I'm a little bummed he's still producing ketones :( I've gotta fly across the county on Thursday and won't be back til Tuesday so I'm worried. My wife will be watching him and I've been teaching her how to do the pokey shoot and told her she'd need to post on here to get advice from ya'all, still very worrying.

His BG seems fairly well controlled, why is he still producing ketones? :banghead: Also, while it's hard to say definately I feel like he's still losing weight. Poor guy is all skin and bones :(
 
John & Henry said:
His BG seems fairly well controlled, why is he still producing ketones? :banghead: Also, while it's hard to say definately I feel like he's still losing weight. Poor guy is all skin and bones :(
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@FrostD might be able to offer a more comprehensive explanation but my understanding is that cats with a recent history of DKA tend to be more prone to continue producing some ketones for a while, even as they make their way to regulation. So not every cat is going to have this tendency but it is certainly not surprising given Henry's recent DKA.

My boy Hendrick had the same issue. We tracked ketones for weeks, and they would go up and down -- .3 one day, 1.2 the next. Giving me a @#&^@ heart attack. So Henry may display a similar tendency to produce ketones for quite some time. All the more important that he eat 150% of normal caloric intake, plenty of water and get his insulin.

Melissa please correct me or add on where needed thanks you're the best. John, if you hadn't figured it out already @FrostD is one of my personal heros along with @Suzanne & Darcy , @Diane Tyler's Mom @Bron and Sheba (GA) and @Bandit's Mom. They all lend a huge amount of assistance across multiple forums helping many people and their cats. There are others as well those are just the ones that come to mind first...I can't say enough about these amazing humans and they help they gave me and my boy. Oh shoot, where's a damn tissue here we go with the waterworks dammit

Must be the new onion factory just went up next door.....


[edit] re: weight. Hendrick wouldn't gain weight for like 3 weeks after he got out of the hospital. He was on Lantus and eating 150-200% of his caloric need for his ideal weight and still not gaining an ounce, for the first couple weeks. Remember that unregulated diabetic felines cannot process nutrients from food properly so they are always hungry but can't gain muscle mass or fat stores. As Henry spends time in the lower BGs, and gets regulated, he will gain.
 
Hi John. All I can say is that my boy, Darcy, after his DKA, definitely had what would be considered a high level of ketones for several months. It worried me, but I finally realized that he was actually "okay" with the ketones as long as he was eating well (and boy did he ever eat) and behaving normally. The minute he was off of his food, I had him to the vet for some quick in-house bloodwork. A few times we caught an elevated white count and started antibiotics and rechecked in a week and then again a week after stopping antibiotics (I was, and still am, a frequent flyer at the vet!) If you look at my spreadsheet, there is a column for reporting ketones. Sometimes the numbers are quite high. In 2020 after he got home from the week in the ER, I started tracking them with the blood ketone meter. You see they stayed high for the remainder of 2020 and then in the first few months of 2021, they were high. Finally, as we reached a better dose of insulin, his ketones began to come down (even BEFORE his BG numbers began to come down.)

I bet your Henry will not have much in the way of ketones soon - if today's cycle is any example of what will be coming in the future :-) Just make sure he eats well and seems to be behaving normally. He should be able to put on weight in these better BGs. If not, I would be concerned. If you don't have one, get a baby scale and weigh him at least weekly.

Best wishes! I love to see our FDMB kitties doing well!
 
Hi John, if you tested Henry’s urine for ketones when it was showing 0.8 or 1 on the blood meter, the result would be negative. So don’t worry about it when it is showing those small amounts. It’s important you keep testing for them though.
I’m concerned his appetite is not as good. Is he still having the cerenia? It might be worth while asking the vet for some ondansetron. It is better for treating nausea and Henry could have some nausea.
If you get some bone broth make sure it does not have added salt in it or onions.
 
Just a FYI John. You can give cerenia and ondansetron to Henry if needed at the same time as they work on different pathways. Ondansetron is a human medication and the vet will need to write you a script and you would get it at a pharmacy. Ondansetron can be given three times a day and is better for nausea than cerenia. Cerenia is better for vomiting
 
Still haven't been able to update the SS, but BG is 199 @ +4. So he's been getting the cerenia and he's constantly acting hungry and begging for food, but then he'll only eat a few bites of whatever I give him. He's always appreciated a variety of different things, so I'm going to get some various flavors of different foods and hope he'll eat more. I'll ask about the Ondansetron at our appointment on Wednesday. He hasn't vomited at all. This whole beg constantly but only eat a little bit thing isn't totally new for him. He's done similar things to varying degrees most of his life (sans the last 6 or so months where'd eat every drop of everything given to him)

@Bron and Sheba (GA) glad to hear the ketones aren't of dire concern. I'll continue to test daily tho. Hopefully I can find some sort of sodium (& onion) free broth.

@Suzanne & Darcy I'll ask the vet if infection is a possibility. He is acting normally. I'll check out your SS. It makes me feel better multiple people here are reporting long term post-DKA ketones. It just makes me worried he's still burning body weight of which he has very little to spare. I'll get a baby scale.

Melissa please correct me or add on where needed thanks you're the best. John, if you hadn't figured it out already @@FrostD is one of my personal heros along with @@Suzanne & Darcy , @@Diane Tyler's Mom @@Bron and Sheba (GA) and @@Bandit's Mom. They all lend a huge amount of assistance across multiple forums helping many people and their cats. There are others as well those are just the ones that come to mind first...I can't say enough about these amazing humans and they help they gave me and my boy. Oh shoot, where's a damn tissue here we go with the waterworks dammit
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They truly are amazing people. I wish I could send some thank you gifts or money for all the help I've been provided.

Thank you everyone for the information and what you're kitties have been through, it does provide some peace of mind that he'll be able to heal.
 
Looks like Bron and Suzanne already beat me to it, but yes exactly as they said - DKA cats tend to be prone to ketones for quite some time. Some days it might read 2, the next 0.9, kind of variable based on who knows what factors. But as you already know - food, water, insulin are the keys to keeping them away.

As he gets more regulated (today's cycle was FANTASTIC by the way, I am very happy to see it) they will come down.

Bron is our resident post-DKA "expert" - a title I have just now foisted on her whether she wants it or not lol

Also seconding the ondansetron, very possible he is still nauseated (and Cerenia doesn't always do much for that). I also wonder - you previously mentioned vomiting I believe? You said it had food in it if I recall correctly, but if it has been clear I do wonder about a possible ulcer/excess stomach acid
 
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