Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
When we’re the ketones 2.3?
That is a concern.
I see it came down to 0.7. Any further tests?
That is a concern.
I see it came down to 0.7. Any further tests?
5/24 - New member Henry in DKA
- Thread starter John & Henry
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FrostD
Member Since 2020
Glad he's home!
Yes the Vaseline should help a lot with the running.
I always shot in the scruff, it's no big deal. Just rotate your injection location around, sort of the like the face of a clock.
I actually think the shreds are medium carb....13% by this chart - https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
We consider low carb under 10%, most of us feed the 3-7% range. I wouldn't stress about that for now, it's most important that he eats.
No need to feed the DM. Most cats actually don't like it after awhile, you can return for refund and say he doesn't like it. It's not the greatest food either, quality -wise.
Those BGs aren't too horrible. Bron will be best to guide you on dosing, I'm sure she'll be around soon.
It could be neuropathy, I'd give him another day or two to see if he's maybe just a little stiff from the cage. If it is neuropathy, the good news is it's treatable with a supplement and most cats make a full recovery, it just takes a little while to recover.
As for the drinking, just keep an eye out for dehydration. Tacky gums, scruff doesn't snap back when you pull it up.
Yes the Vaseline should help a lot with the running.
I always shot in the scruff, it's no big deal. Just rotate your injection location around, sort of the like the face of a clock.
I actually think the shreds are medium carb....13% by this chart - https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
We consider low carb under 10%, most of us feed the 3-7% range. I wouldn't stress about that for now, it's most important that he eats.
No need to feed the DM. Most cats actually don't like it after awhile, you can return for refund and say he doesn't like it. It's not the greatest food either, quality -wise.
Those BGs aren't too horrible. Bron will be best to guide you on dosing, I'm sure she'll be around soon.
It could be neuropathy, I'd give him another day or two to see if he's maybe just a little stiff from the cage. If it is neuropathy, the good news is it's treatable with a supplement and most cats make a full recovery, it just takes a little while to recover.
As for the drinking, just keep an eye out for dehydration. Tacky gums, scruff doesn't snap back when you pull it up.
Hendrick Cuddleclaw
Member Since 2022
yes as your skill increases you'll get the hang of it so you rarely need more than one ear-poke. Vaseline is key
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
That was with his first test last night as soon as I got him home. Luckily they were down to .7 this morning. I just hope his body wasn't producing them anymore and they had just yet to be flushed from his body.
My laptop is broken and I'm on mobile but I'm going to give it a go with my tablet here in a few minutes.
Here's what it is so far though:
Last night PMPS: 313 (ketones 2.3), +2.5: 286 +5.5: 231
Today AMPS: 203 (ketones .7), +3: 229 +6.5: 304
Water, meat byproducts, turkey, wheat gluten, chicken, vegetable modified starch, soy flour, artificial and natural flavors, sodium caseinate, vegetable oil, tri calcium phosphate, corn starch and then a whole bunch of different minerals. The can doesn't have the carb could, but this website: https://catfooddb.com/product/friskies/Shreds Turkey & Cheese Dinner In Gravy Adult says: Guaranteed Analysis: 3% carbs Dry Matter Analysis: 17% carbs ... not sure why there's such a big difference between Guaranteed Analysis and Dry Matter Analysis
I think she was referring more to the BG and didn't really opine on the ketone test. Either way I'm going to keep a close eye on both. Somehow my meter will detect ketones when doing a BG, it doesn't give the number just prompts you to check for ketone using a ketone strip. (Edit: which then provides the number)
Will do. I'm going to get him a new pet fountain. He has always preferred moving water, but all the fountains I've ever had have ended up dying.
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John & Henry
Member Since 2022
As far as dosing, shouldn't the effects of the insulin increase as the "depot" builds up over the next 5 days?
Thank you everyone for your replies and help. It's truly appreciated.
Thank you everyone for your replies and help. It's truly appreciated.
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
The glucose meter strip won’t detect ketones, but if the BG is over a certain level it will say check for ketones.
I would keep checking for ketones twice a day until we see that they are not reappearing after the 2.3 measurement you got last night.
The way to combat ketones is with food, insulin and fluids. So your main job is to make sure Toby is getting plenty of food to eat….don’t worry at this stage if the carbs are a bit higher than 10%. Eating and calories is more important than carbs at this point. We can worry about carbs once we get the ketones under control. A measurement of 0.7 ketones if not of concern. Your other important jobs are not skipping doses of insulin and keeping up the fluids and measuring for ketones.
You can add more fluids by adding one teaspoon of warm water into each snack you give him….if he’ll eat it that way. If that is not enough and ketones reappear, we will ask you to ask the vet about subQ fluids.
There is no need to wait at all after feeding him to give the dose of insulin. With Lantus, the onset is not for 2 hours so it’s fine to test/feed/shoot one after the other.
The depot will fill over 5 days from the first dose. Keep up the good work and post at least daily or more often with updates and concerns. We are here 24/7.
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
Ahh, that makes sense.
Will do and thank you, you're all truly a godsend
Roxana & Henry
Member Since 2022
Glad to hear your baby is home. Try purebites mixers in water - lots of liquid, zero carb, 30 kcal per tray. My Henry stopped drinking water after initially drinking a ton so now I am also trying tricks to add more liquid. He hates water added to his food. Ugh. The Weruva truluxe has more liquid as well (not all are low carbs though - check the list of foods). Chewy has case that comes with different types. worth looking into it. Raw chicken may work too.
Hope he will feel better soon. Sending positive thoughts your Henry's way
Hope he will feel better soon. Sending positive thoughts your Henry's way
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Just wanted to add its great Henry is wanting to eat. So many DKA kitties arrive home and have nausea and have trouble eating. So that is a real plus! I would keep up the cerenia though because that may be helping more than we know, and eating well is so important in the DKA recovery.
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
Glad to hear your baby is home. Try purebites mixers in water - lots of liquid, zero carb, 30 kcal per tray. My Henry stopped drinking water after initially drinking a ton so now I am also trying tricks to add more liquid. He hates water added to his food. Ugh. The Weruva truluxe has more liquid as well (not all are low carbs though - check the list of foods). Chewy has case that comes with different types. worth looking into it. Raw chicken may work too.
Hope he will feel better soon. Sending positive thoughts your Henry's way
Thanks Roxana, I'm ordering some right now. I've learned I can coax him to drink if it's straight from the tap hence why I need to get another pet fountain (I've went through atleast 4 of them since I've had Henry). Love the markings on your Henry btw. What a handsome boy.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
I'm glad Henry is home and doing well and is eating. He must have been so happy to see you when you picked him up. He sure sounds like he's a love bug 
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
John, please test the BG before you feed and give the dose of insulin. If you find that the BG preshot number is below 200, please stall, don't feed and test again in 20 minutes. Also post and ask for help. You will need to change the subject line to something like ....preshot xx, STALLING, PLEASE HELP!. This will gain attention.
Also you can tag me by using the @ sign then typing in my user name and a box will come up with options. click on my name so... @Bron and Sheba (GA) will show.
You can also tag bandits mom (who lives in India and tiffmaxee (who lives in the US) in the same way. I live in Australia so am often not online for your am dose but should be for your for your pm dose. These three names should cover most of your time if you need help with dosing advice.
Also you can tag me by using the @ sign then typing in my user name and a box will come up with options. click on my name so... @Bron and Sheba (GA) will show.
You can also tag bandits mom (who lives in India and tiffmaxee (who lives in the US) in the same way. I live in Australia so am often not online for your am dose but should be for your for your pm dose. These three names should cover most of your time if you need help with dosing advice.
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
So some bad news. Ketones are back up to 1.8 at PMPS 
I'm feeding and watering him as much as possible. Will check again in the morning. I put the SS in my signature. Let me know if it works or if I did something wrong.
He sure is. When we got him from the cat rescue as a kitten, he picked me! We had looked at several cats, but when he came out of his cage he immediately started rubbing his face all over mine. While he likes my wife and she treats him well (and she's been around him just as long as me), he only sits on my lap, only sleeps on me. She got jealous the first few years, but now she just says he's my cat. While we don't know for sure, he has a lot of siamease body characteristics, crossed eyes (which apparently was characteristic of siamease before it was breed out of them). Apparently lots of siamease are just one person cats. They just pick someone they like a that's their human.
I'm feeding and watering him as much as possible. Will check again in the morning. I put the SS in my signature. Let me know if it works or if I did something wrong.He sure is. When we got him from the cat rescue as a kitten, he picked me! We had looked at several cats, but when he came out of his cage he immediately started rubbing his face all over mine. While he likes my wife and she treats him well (and she's been around him just as long as me), he only sits on my lap, only sleeps on me. She got jealous the first few years, but now she just says he's my cat. While we don't know for sure, he has a lot of siamease body characteristics, crossed eyes (which apparently was characteristic of siamease before it was breed out of them). Apparently lots of siamease are just one person cats. They just pick someone they like a that's their human.
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
OK, will do. Just an FYI PM dose is at 11:30pm PST (west coast US) and I normally goto bed around 3am, so my schedule is probably closer to australia time than east coast US on a "normal" sleep schedule.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
You set the spreadsheet up correctly, one thing didn't you pick him up on Thursday night 5-26?
You have everything filled in for Sat already 5-28
The 203 AMPS you have filled in wasn't that for 5-27 Friday morning
You have everything filled in for Sat already 5-28
The 203 AMPS you have filled in wasn't that for 5-27 Friday morning
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
Yep, good catch, I'll fix it
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
That was fast looks good
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Any signs of lethargy is of concern with ketones..is he alert and bright?
Do you know exactly when the Lantus insulin was started? By my estimation he’s had maybe 5 doses. Would that be right?
How many hours before you go to bed? It would be good if you could test again for ketones before you go to bed if that is possible.
Is it about 2.30 am there now?
With those ketones up at 1.8 I would wake during the night a few times to feed him and water him.
Do you know exactly when the Lantus insulin was started? By my estimation he’s had maybe 5 doses. Would that be right?
How many hours before you go to bed? It would be good if you could test again for ketones before you go to bed if that is possible.
Is it about 2.30 am there now?
With those ketones up at 1.8 I would wake during the night a few times to feed him and water him.
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
5 is probably about right. I've given him 3 so far, not sure how many he got at the hospital but 2 sounds like a reasonable estimate. I've been pulling the plunger back just a hair or two over the mark and I read in another thread that most syringes usually deliver more than 1U even if perfectly on the mark, so I'm not sure how much that will factor into your equation. Just tested him and ketones are at 1.2 so down a bit. BG is 251. He doesn't seem very lethargic. I've been feeding him as much and getting as much water in him as I can. I opened some canned chicken in water and he's drank all the water. I refilled it with some bottled water and he keeps going back to it every 15 minutes or so. I'll try and see if he'll eat in the night. Thank you Bron!
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Sounds as if you are doing all you can. 1.2 or even 1.8 is not alarming but I would be happier if it was lower. We need to be concerned if it is 2.4
If the ketones don’t respond to the food and fluids, we might have to raise the dose of insulin. But let’s see how he goes overnight.
Keep up the food and fluids. Keep me posted with any changes/ progress please
Hendrick Cuddleclaw
Member Since 2022
Great job so far man, I gotta say you are rockin' it way harder than I was when I first started. I didn't get my SS going or any home BG tests for over a week after diagnosis. Many times I have wished I had that week back.
Hendrick sometimes has that cross-eyed look yup. His brother never does, so go figure. And yup, my wife always says Hendrick is my cat, whereas his brother Shylo has a stronger bond with her than I. I am biased towards siamese or siamese crosses having grown up with them and their talktative, demanding ways. Holy hell sometimes Shylo is SO loud though omg. We feed at 630am/pm EDT and at 530am, he will sometimes get on the cat wheel and start running and howling simultaneously to announce it is BREAKFAST TIME DAMMIT.
The cat wheel is loud enough on the hardwood without his caterwauling!
btw can you start a new thread the admins like to keep these at a max of 50 posts for ease of readability.
Hendrick sometimes has that cross-eyed look yup. His brother never does, so go figure. And yup, my wife always says Hendrick is my cat, whereas his brother Shylo has a stronger bond with her than I. I am biased towards siamese or siamese crosses having grown up with them and their talktative, demanding ways. Holy hell sometimes Shylo is SO loud though omg. We feed at 630am/pm EDT and at 530am, he will sometimes get on the cat wheel and start running and howling simultaneously to announce it is BREAKFAST TIME DAMMIT.
The cat wheel is loud enough on the hardwood without his caterwauling!
btw can you start a new thread the admins like to keep these at a max of 50 posts for ease of readability.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
Love the new pic of Henry ,he's so adorable
Roxana & Henry
Member Since 2022
Right? He's so handsome and has a white H shape like letter on his fur so he is definitely a Henry lol. Your Henry is very handsome as well, it must be a "Henry" club thing.
Glad to hear his ketones are down and he is eating. You are lucky he likes the pet fountains. I had bought so many different types (stainelss steel, ceramic etc) and no go. I think this is how he thinks: "Mommy I am allergic to water. Some more shrimp please". Seriously drives me nuts. Today he refused his purina bites in water, he got bored. It stayed out there for hours and he would meow me for food but would not touch it. Typical. I have to go think of other ideas constantly so he can get some liquid. If you have any tips or find new tips don't hesitate to share. With my kitty's prior urinary issues I am always on the lookout for his water intake.
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
Well Ketones are down to .5 this AM, so that's good. BG is 182 so I'm not sure if I should give the shot or not? @Bron and Sheba (GA)
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
Right? He's so handsome and has a white H shape like letter on his fur so he is definitely a Henry lol. Your Henry is very handsome as well, it must be a "Henry" club thing.
Oh yes, my Henry is getting back to his typical ways too. During his "ravenous phase" the last 6 months he'd eat every single last drop of any food I'd give him. Now he's starting to go back to the old "I'm starving but I'm only going to eat 8 bites and keep begging" phase. Wish I had some good advice on getting fluids in your Henry. I know my Henry loves gravy and anything chicken, have you ever tried something like bone broth? He absolutely pounded the water from some canned chicken last night, but I'd imagine that's simular to your Purina bites in water.
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
Thank you. I picked it cause it kinda looks like he's waving and you can really see his polydactalism. He's got what looks like mini extra paws. 3 extra claws on each.Love the new pic of Henry ,he's so adorable
John & Henry
Member Since 2022
Are Hendrick and shylo both siamese? Yeah, the talkativeness is at a whole other level with Henry. If he wants something he's not afraid to ask. Sometimes he'll get in this mood where everytime i pet him he'll meow. One meow per pet. Its like having an anametronic cat. Henry used to try and wake me up in the morning, but I taught him, if he did that I'd make him wait an hour or two before I'd feed him, whereas he'd get fed immediately if he didn't wake me up. So I usually wake up with him sitting right next to my head staring at me quietly.
I notice most people post on the board under their respective insulin type. Should I create the new thread over in the Lantus group or here?
Roxana & Henry
Member Since 2022
Yes, he sometimes likes the water from human chicken can but that is also once a week if i am lucky lol. After that he is like - umm - this thing again? I thought I trained you better silly human. LOL
Roxana & Henry
Member Since 2022
Come on over to the Lantus forum and read the Sticky Notes at the top of the forum. We post here every day using the recommended guidelines (date, name AMPS and +2, +4 etc. data; add the word questions or help if you need help quick) and get eyes on our spreadsheets and recommendations (extremely helpful for low pre-shot and nadir BG) . You can continue using this one as well for general questions. The Lantus forum is more for dosing (gets more eyes on it as well). We post one each day and attach a link to the prior day's one. I find it to be a lifesaver. Literally.
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