Newbie Diabetic mama- Help

[jillnc1]

My cat Mac, a 13.5 yo, 11.6 lbs male Tonkinese has had chronic pancreatitis for 1 year. He has been on 5 mg predisolone along with 4Mg daily Cerenia for it. He starting showing classic signs of diabetes about 10 days ago (increase urination, drinking water, eating pattern off.) I took Mac to vet immediately for glucose test. It was 454.
I understood between pancreatitis and steroid use he was at risk for it so was not shocked. Disappointed but not shocked. He also was on a dry food diet.

First thing vet wanted to do was to stop the pred which we did very quickly (surprised we didn’t taper more slowly) 1/2 dose for 3 days then stopped it fully.

Scheduled followup appt with vet for 2 weeks out allowing time for stopping predisolone to possibly take effect.

Spent the last week trying to do home blood testing which I struggled with. First one worked and it was 385. Finally using a 28 gauge lancet today was able to get another test in and it was 397. (Human Glucometer). His urination and drinking has decreased from 10 days ago.

Have been in regular communication with vet via front desk and her email. Just sent a note to see if waiting until March 2 for starting insulin is an issue and if I should come in sooner.

Mac’s eating is off. He is only eating this treat stuff called Tuna Squeeze Ups . Not even eating his dry. He is not getting enough calories. Weight has dropped about 1lb. ( started at 12.6 so he had a little to give).

he still purrs, interacts with us, etc. He did/is going through grieving for his brother littermate who passed 1/11/2022.

My question is there any issue with waiting another week to start insulin or ok to wait to see effect of no pred and no dry food for another week? She plans on putting him on Glargine if he needs insulin.

I have created Mac’s spreadsheet and it is in my signature. Added Dec labs to it.

I look forward to having this group’s expertise to lean on during this new challenging time.

Thank you!

 

[Chris and Checkers]

Hi and welcome to the site. It is great that you have started home testing, it is hard at first but it does get easier. Here is a link that had some tips and advice. Hometesting.

If you can add some information to your signature, it would help the advice givers, so they don't have to ask the same questions over and over again.
Caregiver & kitty's name
DX: Date
Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
Name of your meter
Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
Spreadsheet link.
Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

If your kitty is not eating much and is not getting insulin you should be testing for ketones. You can go to Walmart and pick up some Ketostix.

 

[Chris and Checkers]

Here is some information and tips on transitioning to wet food here.

Here is some advice on stimulating your kitty's appetite.

Also here is a link to food charts to help you find some low carb food, less that 10% is best, ideally less than 5% carbs.

Sorry I didn't actually answer your question, but I am sure an experienced member will be by soon to help.

 

[jillnc1]

Hi and welcome to the site. It is great that you have started home testing, it is hard at first but it does get easier. Here is a link that had some tips and advice. Hometesting.

If you can add some information to your signature, it would help the advice givers, so they don't have to ask the same questions over and over again.
Caregiver & kitty's name
DX: Date
Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
Name of your meter
Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
Spreadsheet link.
Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

If your kitty is not eating much and is not getting insulin you should be testing for ketones. You can go to Walmart and pick up some Ketostix.

Here is some information and tips on transitioning to wet food here.

Here is some advice on stimulating your kitty's appetite.

Also here is a link to food charts to help you find some low carb food, less that 10% is best, ideally less than 5% carbs.

Sorry I didn't actually answer your question, but I am sure an experienced member will be by soon to help.

thanks for the advice. I will update my signature. I also bought ketostix yesterday but haven’t had a chance to catch him in the act. Will be more diligent about doing that. At what level of ketones do you have to take him to an ER.
Thanks ag

Hi and welcome to the site. It is great that you have started home testing, it is hard at first but it does get easier. Here is a link that had some tips and advice. Hometesting.

If you can add some information to your signature, it would help the advice givers, so they don't have to ask the same questions over and over again.
Caregiver & kitty's name
DX: Date
Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
Name of your meter
Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
Spreadsheet link.
Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

If your kitty is not eating much and is not getting insulin you should be testing for ketones. You can go to Walmart and pick up some Ketostix.

I was able to get a Ketone reading. What levels required an ER visit? I plan on taking my cat to vet tomorrow.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Any levels above "trace" on the Ketostix mean a call to the vet. What did you see? Might want to compare against a test on yourself, to make sure you have the reading right.

You do eventually want him on a low carb wet or raw food diet, which will help his diabetes a lot. Glargine (Lantus) is a good insulin for cats if he needs to go on insulin.

 

[jillnc1]

Any levels above "trace" on the Ketostix mean a call to the vet. What did you see? Might want to compare against a test on yourself, to make sure you have the reading right.

You do eventually want him on a low carb wet or raw food diet, which will help his diabetes a lot. Glargine (Lantus) is a good insulin for cats if he needs to go on insulin.

It seemed like it was slightly pinker than trace. 5-10

 

[Lando demando]

My cat Mac, a 13.5 yo, 11.6 lbs male Tonkinese has had chronic pancreatitis for 1 year. He has been on 5 mg predisolone along with 4Mg daily Cerenia for it. He starting showing classic signs of diabetes about 10 days ago (increase urination, drinking water, eating pattern off.) I took Mac to vet immediately for glucose test. It was 454.
I understood between pancreatitis and steroid use he was at risk for it so was not shocked. Disappointed but not shocked. He also was on a dry food diet.

First thing vet wanted to do was to stop the pred which we did very quickly (surprised we didn’t taper more slowly) 1/2 dose for 3 days then stopped it fully.

Scheduled followup appt with vet for 2 weeks out allowing time for stopping predisolone to possibly take effect.

Spent the last week trying to do home blood testing which I struggled with. First one worked and it was 385. Finally using a 28 gauge lancet today was able to get another test in and it was 397. (Human Glucometer). His urination and drinking has decreased from 10 days ago.

Have been in regular communication with vet via front desk and her email. Just sent a note to see if waiting until March 2 for starting insulin is an issue and if I should come in sooner.

Mac’s eating is off. He is only eating this treat stuff called Tuna Squeeze Ups . Not even eating his dry. He is not getting enough calories. Weight has dropped about 1lb. ( started at 12.6 so he had a little to give).

he still purrs, interacts with us, etc. He did/is going through grieving for his brother littermate who passed 1/11/2022.

My question is there any issue with waiting another week to start insulin or ok to wait to see effect of no pred and no dry food for another week? She plans on putting him on Glargine if he needs insulin.

I have created Mac’s spreadsheet and it is in my signature. Added Dec labs to it.

I look forward to having this group’s expertise to lean on during this new challenging time.

Thank you!

Poor guy! Also welcome and you seem to be taking great care of Mac so far. Once you have addressed the most urgent items keytones, i am happy to share any tips or tricks that helped my pancreatitis, kibble eater eat again! Good luck, im sending hopeful wishes your way

 

[jillnc1]

Poor guy! Also welcome and you seem to be taking great care of Mac so far. Once you have addressed the most urgent items keytones, i am happy to share any tips or tricks that helped my pancreatitis, kibble eater eat again! Good luck, im sending hopeful wishes your way

Thank you! I anticipate having some complications because of his pancreatitis dx. Mac is starting Lantus tomorrow. He is not eating much except Squeeze Up treats. My vet believes at this point is pancreas is probably not producing insulin so he doesn't have an appetite. I am hoping in several days on insulin and he at least starts eating again. Feel free to pass on any tips or tricks. I always like to learn and get ahead of the game in knowledge and prep.

 

[Lando demando]

Thank you! I anticipate having some complications because of his pancreatitis dx. Mac is starting Lantus tomorrow. He is not eating much except Squeeze Up treats. My vet believes at this point is pancreas is probably not producing insulin so he doesn't have an appetite. I am hoping in several days on insulin and he at least starts eating again. Feel free to pass on any tips or tricks. I always like to learn and get ahead of the game in knowledge and prep.

Lando is on Lantus as well and it worked great for him. During a bout with pancreatitis, he ended up having an aversion to many of his old favorite foods. There was a time that i blended weruva and fancy feast foods and syringe fed him so that he wouldnt loose weight and develop ketones. Once that was over, i found that the magic formula for him was some sheba pates and his beloved kibble ( dr elseys was the low carb right fit that he liked). Crumbling freeze dried chicken ( pure bites) was a life saver to entice him to eat ( it still is) as well as inaba churu snacks. Cerenia ( mac looks like hes on that too) is something Lando takes as well.
There are a few members that are very helpful with pancreas issues. Will post a link here for you!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/a-primer-on-pancreatitis.83108/

im wishing you all the luck, and hopefully your guy starts eating or being assist fed soon!

 

[jillnc1]

Lando is on Lantus as well and it worked great for him. During a bout with pancreatitis, he ended up having an aversion to many of his old favorite foods. There was a time that i blended weruva and fancy feast foods and syringe fed him so that he wouldnt loose weight and develop ketones. Once that was over, i found that the magic formula for him was some sheba pates and his beloved kibble ( dr elseys was the low carb right fit that he liked). Crumbling freeze dried chicken ( pure bites) was a life saver to entice him to eat ( it still is) as well as inaba churu snacks. Cerenia ( mac looks like hes on that too) is something Lando takes as well.
There are a few members that are very helpful with pancreas issues. Will post a link here for you!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/a-primer-on-pancreatitis.83108/

im wishing you all the luck, and hopefully your guy starts eating or being assist fed soon!

Thank you so much!!

 

[jillnc1]

Lando is on Lantus as well and it worked great for him. During a bout with pancreatitis, he ended up having an aversion to many of his old favorite foods. There was a time that i blended weruva and fancy feast foods and syringe fed him so that he wouldnt loose weight and develop ketones. Once that was over, i found that the magic formula for him was some sheba pates and his beloved kibble ( dr elseys was the low carb right fit that he liked). Crumbling freeze dried chicken ( pure bites) was a life saver to entice him to eat ( it still is) as well as inaba churu snacks. Cerenia ( mac looks like hes on that too) is something Lando takes as well.
There are a few members that are very helpful with pancreas issues. Will post a link here for you!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/a-primer-on-pancreatitis.83108/

im wishing you all the luck, and hopefully your guy starts eating or being assist fed soon!

I noticed Lando takes Cerenia and Ondansedron. Does he take them both at the same time? I heard Ondansedron is better for nausea and Cerenia for nausea and inflammation and I have heard your can take them at the same time.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Yes, it's fine to give both ondansetron and Cerenia. Cerenia is once per day, ondansetron 2-4 times a day - it doesn't last as long.

 

[Lando demando]

I noticed Lando takes Cerenia and Ondansedron. Does he take them both at the same time? I heard Ondansedron is better for nausea and Cerenia for nausea and inflammation and I have heard your can take them at the same time.

So sorry i didnt get this notification @jillnc1 ! Glad @Wendy&Neko had a good answer. FWIW right now Lando only takes cerenia ( but he hasnt had pancreatitis flares in a while)

 

[jillnc1]

So sorry i didnt get this notification @jillnc1 ! Glad @Wendy&Neko had a good answer. FWIW right now Lando only takes cerenia ( but he hasnt had pancreatitis flares in a while)

I have reviewed Lando’s SS’s. I am encouraged that my Mac has a chance to get regulated even with his pancreatitis. His eating is really off and I started syringe feeding (thanks to your suggestion). Start insulin tomorrow!! Wish us luck!

 

[Lando demando]

I have reviewed Lando’s SS’s. I am encouraged that my Mac has a chance to get regulated even with his pancreatitis. His eating is really off and I started syringe feeding (thanks to your suggestion). Start insulin tomorrow!! Wish us luck!

Wishing you bunches of luck! I had to remind myself to be patient and even write myself notes not to get frustrated. I will be crossing my fingers for Mac!

 

[jillnc1]

Wishing you bunches of luck! I had to remind myself to be patient and even write myself notes not to get frustrated. I will be crossing my fingers for Mac!

Hi! Well first shot successfully given! Is it my imagination or is 1 unit of insulin a very small physical amount. it seems like there was barely anything in the syringe when you use the first black line as the 1 U indicator. I guess we will see in 2 hrs if it had any affect.

Thanks
Jill

 

[Lando demando]

Hi! Well first shot successfully given! Is it my imagination or is 1 unit of insulin a very small physical amount. it seems like there was barely anything in the syringe when you use the first black line as the 1 U indicator. I guess we will see in 2 hrs if it had any affect.

Thanks
Jill

Great job! Yes it takes a while to get the “feel” of it. Often it seems like nothing is being shot. I liked taking a syringe and doing little tests with water on an orange section or something. Even if you dont practice, it will start feeling natural. Good luck and well wishes to Mac!
Btw if you look at most cats SS you can see an instance where only a drop brought them down to lime green numbers. Insulin is powerful.

 

[jillnc1]

Great job! Yes it takes a while to get the “feel” of it. Often it seems like nothing is being shot. I liked taking a syringe and doing little tests with water on an orange section or something. Even if you dont practice, it will start feeling natural. Good luck and well wishes to Mac!
Btw if you look at most cats SS you can see an instance where only a drop brought them down to lime green numbers. Insulin is powerful.

Would like your advice on frequency, timing and volume of assisted feeding when you are giving insulin? I know I am asking you a lot of questions specifically but your cat seems to match Mac so well. He is basically not eating much on his own. We did get a little assist from the insulin today AMPS 417, 380 +2, 307 +4, 317 +6. I am going to measure +8 and then PMPS. Spreadsheet has been updated. Thanks!!

 

[Lando demando]

Would like your advice on frequency, timing and volume of assisted feeding when you are giving insulin? I know I am asking you a lot of questions specifically but your cat seems to match Mac so well. He is basically not eating much on his own. We did get a little assist from the insulin today AMPS 417, 380 +2, 307 +4, 317 +6. I am going to measure +8 and then PMPS. Spreadsheet has been updated. Thanks!!

well to be perfectly frank @jillnc1 i am more of a "cheerleader" status here and am not qualified to give dosing advice. @Wendy&Neko is a great resource and there might be others she suggests. As far as assist feeding, I followed the protocol on the main video posted here. I blended weruva (or other LC wet food) and did 4 baby syringe fulls 4xs a day. that turns out to be 16 syringes a day. I especially made sure to do the full 4 before each insulin shot. VERY IMPORTANT. I think you can see on Landos SS it took a week or two before he started eating again. i hope this helps!! hang in there! BTW you are doing AMAZING at testing! patience and perseverance will be your key

 

[jillnc1]

well to be perfectly frank @jillnc1 i am more of a "cheerleader" status here and am not qualified to give dosing advice. @Wendy&Neko is a great resource and there might be others she suggests. As far as assist feeding, I followed the protocol on the main video posted here. I blended weruva (or other LC wet food) and did 4 baby syringe fulls 4xs a day. that turns out to be 16 syringes a day. I especially made sure to do the full 4 before each insulin shot. VERY IMPORTANT. I think you can see on Landos SS it took a week or two before he started eating again. i hope this helps!! hang in there! BTW you are doing AMAZING at testing! patience and perseverance will be your key

Thanks! Yes I was just looking for the feeding advice. That is perfect!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

One time I had to assist feed a foster for a couple weeks (hepatic lipidosis). I knew he had to eat a can a day (Royal Canin Recovery). By trial and error I figured out how many syringes he would take at a sitting before complaining and used that as his meal size. Then figured out how many sessions he needed per day to get his total calories needed. Turned out about 6 sessions for him, so every 2-3 hours. He was a Maine Coon, so a bigger can needing a bit more food. With Neko, also Maine Coon but cross so a bit smaller, I never had to assist feed an entire meal. Most often just getting a bit of food in her would get her to start eating the rest.

 

[Lando demando]

One time I had to assist feed a foster for a couple weeks (hepatic lipidosis). I knew he had to eat a can a day (Royal Canin Recovery). By trial and error I figured out how many syringes he would take at a sitting before complaining and used that as his meal size. Then figured out how many sessions he needed per day to get his total calories needed. Turned out about 6 sessions for him, so every 2-3 hours. He was a Maine Coon, so a bigger can needing a bit more food. With Neko, also Maine Coon but cross so a bit smaller, I never had to assist feed an entire meal. Most often just getting a bit of food in her would get her to start eating the rest.

This is a great point! Its all about how many calories the specific cat needs. Lando is a 20 pounder!