? 2/20 Jade amps 340...I really need some help,please.

[Jill & Jade]

I'm continuing to have a rough week with Jade. I have explained what's been happening on my recent condos but I need some help/advice/guidance here. @tiffmaxee @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Bandit's Mom @Katherine&Ruby @Suzanne & Darcy
It happened again yesterday and is happening again today. She's eating but not as much and even .25 is knocking her down hard and fast. I will list her numbers from yesterday in this post but basically the exact same thing is happening now. I really don't know what to do. Shes been dropping around 200 "points" within +2.5-+3 hours of shot time which is not normal for her. Her nadir is typically around +6-+7.
I know when she drops this quickly that she will hit the danger zone within an hour or two. Yesterday, even after feeding her HC, she didn't really go that far up in numbers. Typically, MC hits her hard and fast and while her HC food helped, it didn't do what it usually does which really makes me wonder if she would have made it through the day had I not intervened and am left wondering what would have happened today as well. I skipped her PM shot last night because I left a mix of MC/LC food out when I left for work and I have no idea if her PMPS number was food influenced.
This is how yesterday went...
AMPS 320 ( she ate almost all of her food) .25
+1.5=231
+2.5=117
*I knew this was going south pretty quickly and gave her some HC gravy. I didn't want to wait until she dipped below 63 and I know under the circumstances she's not earning a reduction
+3= 141
+3.5=214
+4=213
+5=208
+7.5=182
Left for work...
Like I mentioned earlier, the MC usually hits really fast and hard and giving her HC helped but not as much as I thought.
Today we started similarly...
AMPS 340 She ate almost all her food .25
+2=263
+3=156
Once again, she has dropped almost 200 "points" when typically her insulin is just starting to kick in.
Fed her some HC gravy and will begin checking her at +4.
I really need some help here.....
All her other behavior is normal. She’s playing, peeing,pooping,purring and preening. This all seems to be food/ feeding time related.



https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/2-15-jade-amps-324.259413/#post-2914291

 

[tiffmaxee]

Hi Jill. You have a very bouncy kitty who is bouncing both from dropping too fast and needing to get used to more normal bg. I totally understand your fear of her going hypo while you are away from home. Skipping when she’s high just compounds the issue. What about getting an auto feeder that you can set while at work? Then you could feed the curve.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Hi Jill. You have a very bouncy kitty who is bouncing both from dropping too fast and needing to get used to more normal bg. I totally understand your fear of her going hypo while you are away from home. Skipping when she’s high just compounds the issue. What about getting an auto feeder that you can set while at work? Then you could feed the curve.

Hi Elise. Thanks for responding. I would normally never skip when she’s in a good range but since I left out MC/LC when I left for work, I truly had no idea if her PS number was from the food I left out because I had no idea when she actually ate it, if that makes sense. Which leads me to the timed feeder…I’ve always left normal LC food out for her when I go to work and when I go to bed and she’s always eaten it. In fact, she’s always been perfectly fine with food until a couple weeks ago when we had a pilling incident. She seems very traumatized by it. I couldn’t get the pill down and by the time I did, the coating has come off and I know it was awful for her. Ever since then, she’s become very sketchy at the PS feedings and not eating as much which I think is what’s affecting her big, fast dangerous drops. Last night was the first night (ever, I think) that I didn’t leave food out for her in hopes that she’d be famished this morning at PS. She wasn’t. She ate some but not all of the 1.3 Oz portion. And when she is eating, she’s constantly looking around to see if I’m coming at her with a med of some sort. Breaks my heart, to be honest. I really don’t know how to get back on track here.

 

[Jill & Jade]

What benefits would a timed feeder give me when it comes to her having to eat a full meal before I shoot her? I’m not saying it wouldn’t… I’m just now sure how?
I think all of this is happening of late because she’s not eating full meals before shot time. Do you think it could be something else? She’s been grazing today…. so it’s not that she’s NOT eating, it’s a matter of WHEN she’s not eating ( enough, anyway). I could be totally wrong?

 

[Jill & Jade]

Hi Jill. You have a very bouncy kitty who is bouncing both from dropping too fast and needing to get used to more normal bg. I totally understand your fear of her going hypo while you are away from home. Skipping when she’s high just compounds the issue. What about getting an auto feeder that you can set while at work? Then you could feed the curve.

The pill I gave her was for her thyroid. She used to eat the compounded chews but started equating that with ear poking and food and insulin and started getting super weird. Then, her dose went up and we tried the pills in a pill pocket. That didn’t work either. Then came the “incident”. Now she’s on the transdermal gel. But that seems to be when her eating habits shifted.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Jill --

With Lantus, it's obviously important that your cat eats. However, they don't need to eat the entire meal at pre-shot time. Gabby had an early onset and nadir. She could be dropping fast at +1 and nadir at +3 or +4. What I ended up doing was feeding multiple small meals at PS, +1, +2 and +3. (I ended up ultimately just feeding 3 small meals.) This helped to keep her food front loaded during the cycles.

One other thought is to use food that's a little higher in carbs (e.g., 7 or 8%) until Jade is more confident that you're not giving her a pill.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Jill --

With Lantus, it's obviously important that your cat eats. However, they don't need to eat the entire meal at pre-shot time. Gabby had an early onset and nadir. She could be dropping fast at +1 and nadir at +3 or +4. What I ended up doing was feeding multiple small meals at PS, +1, +2 and +3. (I ended up ultimately just feeding 3 small meals.) This helped to keep her food front loaded during the cycles.

One other thought is to use food that's a little higher in carbs (e.g., 7 or 8%) until Jade is more confident that you're not giving her a pill.

Thank you. She actually does seem to eat a bit more after her initial feeding at times. But, sometimes she just turns her head ( dramatically, I might add) and is just done. Jade seems to have her onset between +2-+3 and hits her nadir around +6. But, that’s all depending on the day. I’ll look to see if any FF or Shebas are at that carb count!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Jill --

With Lantus, it's obviously important that your cat eats. However, they don't need to eat the entire meal at pre-shot time. Gabby had an early onset and nadir. She could be dropping fast at +1 and nadir at +3 or +4. What I ended up doing was feeding multiple small meals at PS, +1, +2 and +3. (I ended up ultimately just feeding 3 small meals.) This helped to keep her food front loaded during the cycles.

One other thought is to use food that's a little higher in carbs (e.g., 7 or 8%) until Jade is more confident that you're not giving her a pill.

Since the options are pretty limited on 7% ( ish) carb food, do you think mixing in a tiny bit of 14% into her FF / Friskies would do?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Did you shoot yesterday morning? The units for AMPS is missing, so not sure if you skipped or just didn't enter the data. It's much easier for us to look at spreadsheet data than the text box to figure out what is happening.

Quite a few slightly higher low carb options listed in the catinfo food chart, but other manufacturers. You could always try mixing foods and see if that helps.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Did you shoot yesterday morning? The units for AMPS is missing, so not sure if you skipped or just didn't enter the data. It's much easier for us to look at spreadsheet data than the text box to figure out what is happening.

Quite a few slightly higher low carb options listed in the catinfo food chart, but other manufacturers. You could always try mixing foods and see if that helps.

Oops… sorry about that. Yes, I shot .25
I will add the #’s in, I just wanted to give an explanation first. If you just look at the #’s on the SS, it looks like she had a pretty smooth day instead of knowing all that happened…and I definitely need some advice. I looked at the food chart earlier and it seems the 7% foods are the ones that are more expensive and harder to find. I think if it’s ok, I’ll try mixing what I already have and see if that helps. I hope she starts eating normally again soon.
This is soooooo stressful and I know she hates being poked as much I’ve had to in this last week. Thank you for responding!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Did you shoot yesterday morning? The units for AMPS is missing, so not sure if you skipped or just didn't enter the data. It's much easier for us to look at spreadsheet data than the text box to figure out what is happening.

Quite a few slightly higher low carb options listed in the catinfo food chart, but other manufacturers. You could always try mixing foods and see if that helps.

I filled in my SS
If I mix her food a bit, will her numbers plummet once the carbs from the food wear off? 2 hours or so?

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I'm continuing to have a rough week with Jade. I have explained what's been happening on my recent condos but I need some help/advice/guidance here. @tiffmaxee @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Bandit's Mom @Katherine&Ruby @Suzanne & Darcy
It happened again yesterday and is happening again today. She's eating but not as much and even .25 is knocking her down hard and fast. I will list her numbers from yesterday in this post but basically the exact same thing is happening now. I really don't know what to do. Shes been dropping around 200 "points" within +2.5-+3 hours of shot time which is not normal for her. Her nadir is typically around +6-+7.
I know when she drops this quickly that she will hit the danger zone within an hour or two. Yesterday, even after feeding her HC, she didn't really go that far up in numbers. Typically, MC hits her hard and fast and while her HC food helped, it didn't do what it usually does which really makes me wonder if she would have made it through the day had I not intervened and am left wondering what would have happened today as well. I skipped her PM shot last night because I left a mix of MC/LC food out when I left for work and I have no idea if her PMPS number was food influenced.
This is how yesterday went...
AMPS 320 ( she ate almost all of her food) .25
+1.5=231
+2.5=117
*I knew this was going south pretty quickly and gave her some HC gravy. I didn't want to wait until she dipped below 63 and I know under the circumstances she's not earning a reduction
+3= 141
+3.5=214
+4=213
+5=208
+7.5=182
Left for work...
Like I mentioned earlier, the MC usually hits really fast and hard and giving her HC helped but not as much as I thought.
Today we started similarly...
AMPS 340 She ate almost all her food .25
+2=263
+3=156
Once again, she has dropped almost 200 "points" when typically her insulin is just starting to kick in.
Fed her some HC gravy and will begin checking her at +4.
I really need some help here.....
All her other behavior is normal. She’s playing, peeing,pooping,purring and preening. This all seems to be food/ feeding time related.



https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/2-15-jade-amps-324.259413/#post-2914291

This is why I do not like Lantus.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

What benefits would a timed feeder give me when it comes to her having to eat a full meal before I shoot her? I’m not saying it wouldn’t… I’m just now sure how?
I think all of this is happening of late because she’s not eating full meals before shot time. Do you think it could be something else? She’s been grazing today…. so it’s not that she’s NOT eating, it’s a matter of WHEN she’s not eating ( enough, anyway). I could be totally wrong?

A lot of people don’t feed their cats full meals at one time. They feed a little at shot time, more in an hour and more in another hour, etc. This is a ton of work and is not always possible for those who work. I’m just saying that if Jade eats something at shot time and then eats again an hour or two later and then maybe eats some more in another hour or so that it’s probably okay. I am wondering if she’s sick though- I mean it just seems like something else is going on that’s affected her appetite. If she’s hungry she should be getting over the pill thing by now. Even if she’s afraid of you, wouldn’t she eat when you walked out of the room? I wonder why she’s not hungry? Has she lost weight? Or os she taking in just as many calories but spread out over the course of the day?

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

The pill I gave her was for her thyroid. She used to eat the compounded chews but started equating that with ear poking and food and insulin and started getting super weird. Then, her dose went up and we tried the pills in a pill pocket. That didn’t work either. Then came the “incident”. Now she’s on the transdermal gel. But that seems to be when her eating habits shifted.

I wonder if the transdermal gel is working as well as the pills were? Maybe the absorption is not as good and her dose meeds tweaking. If she’s not getting enough of the thyroid med, do you think this would make her less hungry?

 

[Jill & Jade]

I wonder if the transdermal gel is working as well as the pills were? Maybe the absorption is not as good and her dose meeds tweaking. If she’s not getting enough of the thyroid med, do you think this would make her less hungry?

I will ask the vet all of those things as well as asking about switching from Lantus.

 

[Jill & Jade]

A lot of people don’t feed their cats full meals at one time. They feed a little at shot time, more in an hour and more in another hour, etc. This is a ton of work and is not always possible for those who work. I’m just saying that if Jade eats something at shot time and then eats again an hour or two later and then maybe eats some more in another hour or so that it’s probably okay. I am wondering if she’s sick though- I mean it just seems like something else is going on that’s affected her appetite. If she’s hungry she should be getting over the pill thing by now. Even if she’s afraid of you, wouldn’t she eat when you walked out of the room? I wonder why she’s not hungry? Has she lost weight? Or os she taking in just as many calories but spread out over the course of the day?

Her behavior other than this particular issue is fine so I presume she’s not feeling ill? I wondered about a tooth infection but she’s not drooling or pawing or swollen. I think that thyroid issues (hyper or hypo) both show symptoms of eating more. I could be wrong….
Her eating smaller amounts is what ha sent her plummeting, I think.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I don’t know if someone said this already but you perhaps should be feeding her a higher carb food. Maybe something around 10 percent. A lot of cats do really well on about 8-10 percent carbs as their regular diet.

I do understand about expensive cat food though.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I will ask the vet all of those things as well as asking about switching from Lantus.

Jill is bouncy though. I guess the vet can test her thyroid levels after she’s been on the transdermal for a while. Did the vet say when would be a good time to retest them? After a month maybe?

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Her behavior other than this particular issue is fine so I presume she’s not feeling ill? I wondered about a tooth infection but she’s not drooling or pawing or swollen. I think that thyroid issues (hyper or hypo) both show symptoms of eating more. I could be wrong….
Her eating smaller amounts is what ha sent her plummeting, I think.

I know hyper will make them hungry all the time. Not sure about hypo. I think it’s lethargy, weight gain amd lack of appetite. But with diabetic cats there are also many more factors in play. Ugh!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Jill is bouncy though. I guess the vet can test her thyroid levels after she’s been on the transdermal for a while. Did the vet say when would be a good time to retest them? After a month maybe?

She did say about a month but we can’t keep doing this for a month. I’m going to try to mix MC with her LC. But, as I asked earlier, if I mix her PA food, isn’t there a possibility that after the food wears off, she’ll plummet?

 

[Jill & Jade]

I know hyper will make them hungry all the time. Not sure about hypo. But with diabetic cats there are also many more factors in play. Ugh!

I’m really really upset about all of it. Jades oblivious ( thank god) except for the increase in ear pokes.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I’m really really upset about all of it. Jades oblivious ( thank god) except for the increase in ear pokes.

 

[Jill & Jade]

My Vet is going to loose her marbles when I say I’ve been giving .25 when she thinks it’s been 1U this entire time.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Hypo thyroid typically causes lethargy, weight gain and lack of appetite. Doesn’t sound like Jade is lethargic.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

My Vet is going to loose her marbles when I say I’ve been giving .25 when she thinks it’s been 1U this entire time.

Oh well, that vet already lost her marbles over you a long time ago. LOL!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Oh well, that vet already lost her marbles over you a long time ago. LOL!

True! But, she hasn’t dumped me…. yet. She may after this.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

if I mix her PA food, isn’t there a possibility that after the food wears off, she’ll plummet?

I don’t think that it will necessarily cause her to plummet, but only Jade knows for sure. Your job will be to test it out to see if it will help even her out and to be ready for any dives.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

True! But, she hasn’t dumped me…. yet. She may after this.

Not if you show her some of the low numbers.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Not if you show her some of the low numbers.

My vet? Nope… she only cares that I’m following her instructions.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

My vet? Nope… she only cares that I’m following her instructions.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I looked at the food chart earlier and it seems the 7% foods are the ones that are more expensive and harder to find.

It doesn't have to be exactly 7%, but something in the 7-10% range. I've seen a number of kitties flatten out when they moved to slightly higher % low carb food. It could be something that'll help Jade even out a bit. There were a couple Friskies in the list, and I saw others too.

Instead of HC today and yesterday, I might have tried MC with Jade. The HC took her up higher than you needed her to be. In order to help her bounciness, you want her to spend long periods of time in blues and upper greens. Sending her up to over 200 isn't going to help. As for today, it's not uncommon to get a strong reaction like you did, the cycle after a skip. She's also no where near the danger zone on this dose.

I wouldn't give up on Lantus just yet. And no need to tell the vet the dose you are giving, unless she asks.

 

[Jill & Jade]

It doesn't have to be exactly 7%, but something in the 7-10% range. I've seen a number of kitties flatten out when they moved to slightly higher % low carb food. It could be something that'll help Jade even out a bit. There were a couple Friskies in the list, and I saw others too.

Instead of HC today and yesterday, I might have tried MC with Jade. The HC took her up higher than you needed her to be. In order to help her bounciness, you want her to spend long periods of time in blues and upper greens. Sending her up to over 200 isn't going to help. As for today, it's not uncommon to get a strong reaction like you did, the cycle after a skip. She's also no where near the danger zone on this dose.

I wouldn't give up on Lantus just yet. And no need to tell the vet the dose you are giving, unless she asks.

Ok. Thank you and I’ll keep trying different things before I make a vet appointment. I was so worried that she would hypo that I panicked. She does always say “jades on 1U still, yes?” And I always say yes.

 

[Jill & Jade]

It doesn't have to be exactly 7%, but something in the 7-10% range. I've seen a number of kitties flatten out when they moved to slightly higher % low carb food. It could be something that'll help Jade even out a bit. There were a couple Friskies in the list, and I saw others too.

Instead of HC today and yesterday, I might have tried MC with Jade. The HC took her up higher than you needed her to be. In order to help her bounciness, you want her to spend long periods of time in blues and upper greens. Sending her up to over 200 isn't going to help. As for today, it's not uncommon to get a strong reaction like you did, the cycle after a skip. She's also no where near the danger zone on this dose.

I wouldn't give up on Lantus just yet. And no need to tell the vet the dose you are giving, unless she asks.

So this evening I will give her a mix and shoot .25 even if she doesn’t eat an entire meal? That makes me so nervous because I can’t stay up all night and like her every hour. Her ears are getting pretty raw….

 

[Wendy&Neko]

She doesn't need to eat her entire meal right away. Lantus doesn't onset for a couple hours, so you have that time to get some food in her. If she was 384 at +6 today, I expect she'll be plenty high and safe tonight. So far, 0.25 units has only gotten her as low as the 140's, so lots of safety room.

 

[Jill & Jade]

She doesn't need to eat her entire meal right away. Lantus doesn't onset for a couple hours, so you have that time to get some food in her. If she was 384 at +6 today, I expect she'll be plenty high and safe tonight. So far, 0.25 units has only gotten her as low as the 140's, so lots of safety room.

Just got home and she’s not eating. Also, it’s only gotten that low because I’ve intervened with HC food the last two days. I mean it dropped by almost 200 in less than 3 hours. It surely would have continued to drop, no? Her nadir is typically +6-+7. I will leave the 3 different types of food down for her for awhile but I can’t shoot on an almost completely empty stomach, can I?

 

[Jill & Jade]

She doesn't need to eat her entire meal right away. Lantus doesn't onset for a couple hours, so you have that time to get some food in her. If she was 384 at +6 today, I expect she'll be plenty high and safe tonight. So far, 0.25 units has only gotten her as low as the 140's, so lots of safety room.

Also, she was eating full meals until recently which is when she was hitting the 140 #.

 

[Jill & Jade]

She doesn't need to eat her entire meal right away. Lantus doesn't onset for a couple hours, so you have that time to get some food in her. If she was 384 at +6 today, I expect she'll be plenty high and safe tonight. So far, 0.25 units has only gotten her as low as the 140's, so lots of safety room.

She hasn’t even eaten a quarter of it. I’m so bummed.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

But she doesn't need to eat it all right away. It's OK if she grazes and eats more later. Did she eat anything during the day after the HC?

And you can always give a token or half dose, however you'd measure that. Even cats who cannot eat because they are going under anaesthesia can get a half dose. I'm worried she's feeling off an will feel even worse with no insulin. Are you testing her for ketones?

 

[Jill & Jade]

But she doesn't need to eat it all right away. It's OK if she grazes and eats more later. Did she eat anything during the day after the HC?

And you can always give a token or half dose, however you'd measure that. Even cats who cannot eat because they are going under anaesthesia can get a half dose. I'm worried she's feeling off an will feel even worse with no insulin. Are you testing her for ketones?

What if she won’t eat more later?
Her behavior is the same. Playful and normal. And she hardly ate any, not just a little. But, I will give her a tiny but I will give her a tiny shot if you’re sure it won’t make her hypo.

 

[Jill & Jade]

But she doesn't need to eat it all right away. It's OK if she grazes and eats more later. Did she eat anything during the day after the HC?

And you can always give a token or half dose, however you'd measure that. Even cats who cannot eat because they are going under anaesthesia can get a half dose. I'm worried she's feeling off an will feel even worse with no insulin. Are you testing her for ketones?

I did it and she’s eaten a bit more. Paws crossed. Thank you.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Glad to see she's eating a bit more and her behaviour is fine. That's important. When Neko was fussy, I was fine to shoot full dose if I could get at least 2/3 of her meal in. Sometimes I had to syringe feed her. But I was also shooting a lot lower numbers.

 

[Jill & Jade]

But she doesn't need to eat it all right away. It's OK if she grazes and eats more later. Did she eat anything during the day after the HC?

And you can always give a token or half dose, however you'd measure that. Even cats who cannot eat because they are going under anaesthesia can get a half dose. I'm worried she's feeling off an will feel even worse with no insulin. Are you testing her for ketones?

I’ll check for ketones with her next pee.

Glad to see she's eating a bit more and her behaviour is fine. That's important. When Neko was fussy, I was fine to shoot full dose if I could get at least 2/3 of her meal in. Sometimes I had to syringe feed her. But I was also shooting a lot lower numbers.[/QUOTE
I wish I had that confidence. I would say she has eaten close to a entire 1.03 oz portion.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Glad to see she's eating a bit more and her behaviour is fine. That's important. When Neko was fussy, I was fine to shoot full dose if I could get at least 2/3 of her meal in. Sometimes I had to syringe feed her. But I was also shooting a lot lower numbers.

I really appreciate your help. Jade would not take well to syringe feeding. She does not like having ANYTHING “done” to her.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Glad to see she's eating a bit more and her behaviour is fine. That's important. When Neko was fussy, I was fine to shoot full dose if I could get at least 2/3 of her meal in. Sometimes I had to syringe feed her. But I was also shooting a lot lower numbers.

I don’t think she’s necessarily eating less as much as she’s just being fussy about eating at her PS meal time. I really feel that it’s behavioral as opposed to her being unwell. I watch her really closely for any changes in her and besides this particular issue, all else is as normal. Peeing, pooping, playing, belly rubs, sleeping and watching birds and squirrels on her IPad.