12/5 Phoenix BG 566

[Scdal]

@Bandit's Mom
I am very worried. Phoenix's AMPS was 76. Now, at +5, he is 566. I fed him his lunch but took it away from him because I don't want his numbers going any higher.

Two weeks ago, his vet put him on a Flovent inhaler 2 puffs twice a day for 2 weeks and then 1 puff a day after that. I also gave him a levalbuterol breathing treatment this morning because he was panting a little bit from his asthma. I noted on his spreadsheet that his BG went high after the breathing treatment.

This is the highest number Phoenix has ever had. Should I call his vet or just keep checking his BG? Phoenix is acting ok but I am frantic.

 

[FrostD]

It stinks to see those high numbers but it's ok. He's just bouncing. Please let him eat

 

[Wendy&Neko]

It's possible Phoenix's numbers took a steep dive overnight down to those greens. Those steep dives can cause worse bounces than low numbers.

It's not a medical emergency. Please remove the 911. His numbers will come down on his own. You can ease off on poking him for a while.

 

[Scdal]

It's possible Phoenix's numbers took a steep dive overnight down to those greens. Those steep dives can cause worse bounces than low numbers.

It's not a medical emergency. Please remove the 911. His numbers will come down on his own. You can ease off on poking him for a while.

Thank you, it had me terrified.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Neko had some really high numbers too, even so high the meter wouldn't register. But she always came down from the bounces eventually. He will be feeling a little hungry in those numbers, some of his raw should be fine.

Do you think his breathing is worse lately? That might be causing his body some stress resulting in higher numbers too. Hopefully this morning's treatment will make him feel better.

 

[Scdal]

Neko had some really high numbers too, even so high the meter wouldn't register. But she always came down from the bounces eventually. He will be feeling a little hungry in those numbers, some of his raw should be fine.

Do you think his breathing is worse lately? That might be causing his body some stress resulting in higher numbers too. Hopefully this morning's treatment will make him feel better.

Phoenix's BG numbers have been odd the last couple of weeks. I am thinking it might be the steroid in the inhaler. The timing is about right. The vet wanted to try inhaled steroids for his asthma. He said they don't have as much effect on diabetic cats as pills or injections. He also told me not to let him outside when it is cold in the mornings but he starts panting even when it is warm.

His breathing hasn't been too bad. He pants for a while and then stops. He hasn't had any episodes of rapid and heavy breathing lately. I gave him the breathing treatment this morning because he had been coughing quite a bit. Along with panting several times a day, I thought a breathing treatment might help. Phoenix is supposed to cut down to just 1 puff of the inhaler once a day starting tomorrow. I did check for ketones and it is negative.

I have fed Phoenix the rest of his lunch and he is having a cat nap under the end table in the living room.

Thank you. Wendy, for responding. I love Phoenix with all my heart and I panic when something happens.

 

[Max & Lori]

The Flovent itself doesn’t affect my Max’s BG, but when he has an asthma attack or difficulty breathing, that definitely affects his BG. Max is on Flovent daily. He has acro, so it’s been difficult to get him under control, but the Flovent doesn’t contribute to his BG increases. Just like you, I thought the same thing about Flovent at first, but then realized that it wasn’t a problem for Max. It may be different for your kitty though, I’m not sure. I was told the Flovent is limited to the lungs and it’s not systemic. @Margaret (and Pearl) knows a lot about Flovent and asthma. She helped me out a lot with that. I hope he gets better soon.

 

[Scdal]

The Flovent itself doesn’t affect my Max’s BG, but when he has an asthma attack or difficulty breathing, that definitely affects his BG. Max is on Flovent daily. He has acro, so it’s been difficult to get him under control, but the Flovent doesn’t contribute to his BG increases. Just like you, I thought the same thing about Flovent at first, but then realized that it wasn’t a problem for Max. It may be different for your kitty though, I’m not sure. I was told the Flovent is limited to the lungs and it’s not systemic. @Margaret (and Pearl) knows a lot about Flovent and asthma. She helped me out a lot with that. I hope he gets better soon.

Thank you for telling me about the Flovent. My vet said the same thing about it being limited to the lungs. Phoenix has been in and out of the house all day. I think I am more upset than he is. He was just diagnosed with asthma in June. I still watch him closely for any signs of breathing problems. Phoenix has been coughing a lot the last few days. I have been told it is part of the asthma. Does Max cough? This worries me more than anything. Since taking the Zyrtec, his cough isn't as deep as it used to sound. It is more like 8 or 10 heaves that are not very loud.
Thank you for responding. I really appreciate your advice.

 

[Max & Lori]

Thank you for telling me about the Flovent. My vet said the same thing about it being limited to the lungs. Phoenix has been in and out of the house all day. I think I am more upset than he is. He was just diagnosed with asthma in June. I still watch him closely for any signs of breathing problems. Phoenix has been coughing a lot the last few days. I have been told it is part of the asthma. Does Max cough? This worries me more than anything. Since taking the Zyrtec, his cough isn't as deep as it used to sound. It is more like 8 or 10 heaves that are not very loud.
Thank you for responding. I really appreciate your advice.

Yes, when Max is having a flare of asthma, he does cough. His respirations seem faster as well. It is very scary so I certainly understand. He also has an Albuterol inhaler in which I use when this happens. That seems to get things under control. Max also was taking Zyrtec for a while, which did seem to help. I give it to him from time to time now, but not daily like I used to. I did notice that his BG went up whenever he had a bad flare of the asthma. I've never used the breathing treatment you mentioned though. We just use the Albuterol inhaler.

 

[Max & Lori]

I don't know where you are from, but this time of year in North Carolina is bad for allergies. I'm having problems myself and I also know that's when Max starts back up with asthma attacks, through the fall and winter.

 

[Scdal]

I don't know where you are from, but this time of year in North Carolina is bad for allergies. I'm having problems myself and I also know that's when Max starts back up with asthma attacks, through the fall and winter.

I am just south of Dallas in Texas but I live on 5 acres in a rural area. There is a lot of open land with grass and farmers with crops. The weather has been in the mid 70's lately and a little windy. The wind seems to flare up his asthma so I try to keep him inside. My vet said the same as you, that this time of year is bad for allergies.

I give Phoenix the Levalbuterol through a little hand nebulizer. The brand name is Mesh Nebulizer. I pour the little vial of Levalbuterol in it. I hold it close to Phoenix's nose and he breathes in the large amount of steam it puts out. It lasts about 5 minutes. It works great and I am only supposed to use it if Phoenix is having trouble breathing. The Levalbuterol is inexpensive. I get 24 vials for $23. Thanks again for all the information.

 

[Jessica A]

I love Phoenix with all my heart and I panic when something happens.

I feel this so much. Callie has been struggling with her asthma a lot more than usual the last couple of months and between that and FD, I feel like I am almost always in a panic these days.

Callie also has allergies and does cough occasionally but lately she has been having more full-blown asthma attacks. I've upped her to the max dose of Flovent and she's also taking Zyrtec and Apoquel (for skin allergies but her vet says it should also help with her asthma.) Like Lori, I originally wondered whether Flovent would affect bg numbers but I also don't think it affects Callie's.

You mentioned that you are supposed to decrease Phoenix's Flovent to once a day starting tomorrow. Since he is still experiencing symptoms like coughing and panting, it might be worth a call to your vet to check whether you should keep him at the higher dose a little longer. (I didn't know that Flovent could be given once a day - we've been giving one or two puffs twice a day depending on Callie's symptoms.)

I give Phoenix the Levalbuterol through a little hand nebulizer. The brand name is Mesh Nebulizer. I pour the little vial of Levalbuterol in it. I hold it close to Phoenix's nose and he breathes in the large amount of steam it puts out. It lasts about 5 minutes. It works great and I am only supposed to use it if Phoenix is having trouble breathing.

We've never used Levalbuterol or Albuterol. Thanks for this info - I am going to ask Callie's vet about it for her. Maybe it will help calm whatever she's got going on in her lungs right now.

I hope Phoenix's numbers come down for you tonight.

 

[Scdal]

Le

I feel this so much. Callie has been struggling with her asthma a lot more than usual the last couple of months and between that and FD, I feel like I am almost always in a panic these days.

Callie also has allergies and does cough occasionally but lately she has been having more full-blown asthma attacks. I've upped her to the max dose of Flovent and she's also taking Zyrtec and Apoquel (for skin allergies but her vet says it should also help with her asthma.) Like Lori, I originally wondered whether Flovent would affect bg numbers but I also don't think it affects Callie's.

You mentioned that you are supposed to decrease Phoenix's Flovent to once a day starting tomorrow. Since he is still experiencing symptoms like coughing and panting, it might be worth a call to your vet to check whether you should keep him at the higher dose a little longer. (I didn't know that Flovent could be given once a day - we've been giving one or two puffs twice a day depending on Callie's symptoms.)


We've never used Levalbuterol or Albuterol. Thanks for this info - I am going to ask Callie's vet about it for her. Maybe it will help calm whatever she's got going on in her lungs right now.

I hope Phoenix's numbers come down for you tonight.

Levalbuterol and Albuterol are similar drugs. They are both bronchodilaters. They relax the constricted airways in the lungs and help your cat breathe. In my opinion, Phoenix gets more of the drug with the nebulizer. With the inhaler, Phoenix does not close his mouth around it and a lot of the medicine comes out of the side of his mouth. I do put it to the back of his throat but it still comes out the side of his mouth. If Callie is having asthma attacks, I highly recommend trying the Levalbuterol in a small handheld nebulizer.

I am going to call Phoenix's vet also and ask about keeping the Flovent at 2 puffs twice a day. I will have to watch his dose, though. This was his first inhaler and it cost me $266 here in the U.S. I have ordered them from overseas and got 3 inhalers for $104. They have been shipped but I haven't received them yet.

I am sorry you are always in a panic as well. Instead of eating dinner tonight, I am going to treat myself to a strong cup of coffee and a chocolate chip muffin and try to relax. I am wishing you and Callie a nice evening as well.

 

[JL and Chip]

With the inhaler, Phoenix does not close his mouth around it and a lot of the medicine comes out of the side of his mouth. I do put it to the back of his throat but it still comes out the side of his mouth.

Are you talking about the Flovent inhaler that this is happening with?

If so, you really should try using an AeroKat chamber to administer the Flovent. The plastic mask is designed to fit around a cat’s mouth so they get the full dose of medication. I can’t fathom trying to dose Flovent straight into the cat’s mouth — there’s no way to make the cat inhale deeply. I’m wondering if that’s part of the reason Phoenix is having issues with his asthma.

A number of places sell the AeroKat. It’s well worth the money.
https://www.chewy.com/trudell-medical-international-aerokat/dp/175949

 

[Max & Lori]

Are you talking about the Flovent inhaler that this is happening with?

If so, you really should try using an AeroKat chamber to administer the Flovent. The plastic mask is designed to fit around a cat’s mouth so they get the full dose of medication. I can’t fathom trying to dose Flovent straight into the cat’s mouth — there’s no way to make the cat inhale deeply. I’m wondering if that’s part of the reason Phoenix is having issues with his asthma.

A number of places sell the AeroKat. It’s well worth the money.
https://www.chewy.com/trudell-medical-international-aerokat/dp/175949

We use the Aerokat as well. I don’t see how the inhaler could be used on a cat without it.

 

[Scdal]

Are you talking about the Flovent inhaler that this is happening with?

If so, you really should try using an AeroKat chamber to administer the Flovent. The plastic mask is designed to fit around a cat’s mouth so they get the full dose of medication. I can’t fathom trying to dose Flovent straight into the cat’s mouth — there’s no way to make the cat inhale deeply. I’m wondering if that’s part of the reason Phoenix is having issues with his asthma.

A number of places sell the AeroKat. It’s well worth the money.
https://www.chewy.com/trudell-medical-international-aerokat/dp/175949

I am so angry right now ! My vet discussed the aerokat at Phoenix's last visit for an asthma attack. The way my vet talked, I believed it came with medicine. I was told he would have to special order it for me. I have contacted the clinic 4 times since then asking if it had come in yet.

Thank you immensely for the link to Chewy. I have ordered an AeroKat tonight. Chewy has a large warehouse about 20 miles from where I live. I should have it in a few days. My vet is going to get an earful from me in the morning. I also have an oxygen tank that I bought for Phoenix. I have been waiting a month for the vet to fax a new prescription to the oxygen supply company. The vet is also going to get an earful about this in the morning.

Again, I can't thank you enough for sharing the link to Chewy. I never looked for the AeroKat because my vet led me to believe they could only be purchased through a vet.

 

[Margaret and Pearl (GA)]

I am so angry right now ! My vet discussed the aerokat at Phoenix's last visit for an asthma attack. The way my vet talked, I believed it came with medicine. I was told he would have to special order it for me. I have contacted the clinic 4 times since then asking if it had come in yet.

Thank you immensely for the link to Chewy. I have ordered an AeroKat tonight. Chewy has a large warehouse about 20 miles from where I live. I should have it in a few days. My vet is going to get an earful from me in the morning. I also have an oxygen tank that I bought for Phoenix. I have been waiting a month for the vet to fax a new prescription to the oxygen supply company. The vet is also going to get an earful about this in the morning.

Again, I can't thank you enough for sharing the link to Chewy. I never looked for the AeroKat because my vet led me to believe they could only be purchased through a vet.

Hi I've read through your posts, love that you're using the nebulized Levalbuterol for attacks. Want to make sure you are going to be doing the Flovent every 12 hours, every single day (this is what will keep the asthma inflammation at bay long-term). I am so thankful you figured out about needing the Aerokat. It's not hard for them to learn to take it. You can put a little peanut butter on the inside of the facepiece if that will help Phoenix be interested and not freak out about having his nose and mouth covered up with it. There is a little flap on the side of the Aerokat also that moves up and down when kitty is taking a breath, so you can tell if/how much he has inhaled. I keep the face piece on Pearl for about 15 deep breaths. You may need to work up to this.

 

[Scdal]

Hi I've read through your posts, love that you're using the nebulized Levalbuterol for attacks. Want to make sure you are going to be doing the Flovent every 12 hours, every single day (this is what will keep the asthma inflammation at bay long-term). I am so thankful you figured out about needing the Aerokat. It's not hard for them to learn to take it. You can put a little peanut butter on the inside of the facepiece if that will help Phoenix be interested and not freak out about having his nose and mouth covered up with it. There is a little flap on the side of the Aerokat also that moves up and down when kitty is taking a breath, so you can tell if/how much he has inhaled. I keep the face piece on Pearl for about 15 deep breaths. You may need to work up to this.

Thank you, Margaret, I am going to take your advice and keep Phoenix on the Flovent twice a day. I am very sure that Phoenix is going to go bonkers when I put that mask over his face. It will take a little time for him to get used to it. It took Phoenix about a week to get used to me putting the inhaler in his mouth. He doesn't mind it now since it was just a fast puff.
Thank you for replying to my post. I am told you are very knowledgeable about asthma in diabetic cats. I have also joined the asthmatic cat forum. That is how I learned to order the Flovent from overseas. Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Have a nice day!

 

[Margaret and Pearl (GA)]

Thank you, Margaret, I am going to take your advice and keep Phoenix on the Flovent twice a day. I am very sure that Phoenix is going to go bonkers when I put that mask over his face. It will take a little time for him to get used to it. It took Phoenix about a week to get used to me putting the inhaler in his mouth. He doesn't mind it now since it was just a fast puff.
Thank you for replying to my post. I am told you are very knowledgeable about asthma in diabetic cats. I have also joined the asthmatic cat forum. That is how I learned to order the Flovent from overseas. Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Have a nice day!

Yes, absolutely I am happy to help anytime! It took me awhile to figure out Pearl being an asthmatic while having FD (she has had asthma for years, much longer than her FD journey). The reasoning for Flovent every 12 hours is because it's only a 12-hour medication. So if you give it just once a day, you will leave Phoenix without any anti-inflammatory medicine on board for half of the 24-hour period.

You might need to try treats, etc, to get him used to the little mask, but Pearl didn't resist much at all. I would hold the mask onto her face and gently cup the back of her head with my other hand, she did very well learning.

I think you'll find that as you keep with the Flovent over time, his BG numbers will start looking better and better too, since the Flovent will decrease the overall inflammation in the lungs. Also you mentioned Zyrtec for allergies. How is that working? The other medication that is excellent for asthmatic cats with allergies is Cyphroheptadine (yes, used also as appetite stimulant) - it is actually an antihistamine with proven results to help asthmatics. Pearl also gets that every 12 hours, too.

PS - Whenever Phoenix is having trouble breathing, you should expect to see the BG spike. Don't be worried. It's just his body freaking out from the asthma attack. When that happens with Pearl, it can take her 12 hours after the attack for her BG to come back down to her usual. Asthma needs to be regulated as much as possible, and when you reach the point of it being regulated, you will have fewer attacks and maybe no attacks at all (but you have to keep doing the Flovent every 12 hours no matter what, and the Levalbuterol for attacks/trouble breathing episodes).

 

[Scdal]

Yes, absolutely I am happy to help anytime! It took me awhile to figure out Pearl being an asthmatic while having FD (she has had asthma for years, much longer than her FD journey). The reasoning for Flovent every 12 hours is because it's only a 12-hour medication. So if you give it just once a day, you will leave Phoenix without any anti-inflammatory medicine on board for half of the 24-hour period.

You might need to try treats, etc, to get him used to the little mask, but Pearl didn't resist much at all. I would hold the mask onto her face and gently cup the back of her head with my other hand, she did very well learning.

I think you'll find that as you keep with the Flovent over time, his BG numbers will start looking better and better too, since the Flovent will decrease the overall inflammation in the lungs. Also you mentioned Zyrtec for allergies. How is that working? The other medication that is excellent for asthmatic cats with allergies is Cyphroheptadine (yes, used also as appetite stimulant) - it is actually an antihistamine with proven results to help asthmatics. Pearl also gets that every 12 hours, too.

PS - Whenever Phoenix is having trouble breathing, you should expect to see the BG spike. Don't be worried. It's just his body freaking out from the asthma attack. When that happens with Pearl, it can take her 12 hours after the attack for her BG to come back down to her usual. Asthma needs to be regulated as much as possible, and when you reach the point of it being regulated, you will have fewer attacks and maybe no attacks at all (but you have to keep doing the Flovent every 12 hours no matter what, and the Levalbuterol for attacks/trouble breathing episodes).

Hello Margaret, the Zyrtec seems to be working quite well. His cough used to sound very congested and deep. After starting Phoenix on the Zyrtec, his cough is now dry and the coughs are shallow. He will still cough 7 or 8 times in a row some days but unless I didn't see him coughing, I wouldn't know he had coughed. They are shallow and quiet.

I will use the Flovent twice a day. I really hope my refills get here quickly. I don't look forward to paying another $266 at the local pharmacy. Please feel free to offer any additional advice. I really thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[Margaret and Pearl (GA)]

Hello Margaret, the Zyrtec seems to be working quite well. His cough used to sound very congested and deep. After starting Phoenix on the Zyrtec, his cough is now dry and the coughs are shallow. He will still cough 7 or 8 times in a row some days but unless I didn't see him coughing, I wouldn't know he had coughed. They are shallow and quiet.

I will use the Flovent twice a day. I really hope my refills get here quickly. I don't look forward to paying another $266 at the local pharmacy. Please feel free to offer any additional advice. I really thank you for taking the time to respond.

I think the coughs are attacks. At least they are for Pearl. I can't wait until you get the Aerokat and can start administering the Flovent with Phoenix able to take lots of breaths from it. I bet it will help a lot over time.