10/17 - Newly Diagnosed Bear - PMPS 148, +2 89, +3 74

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Let's see what Chris thinks, but I'm inclined to give a token/reduced dose of 0.25-0.5U. are you able to stay up and test if needed? Plenty of strips?

Edit: Chris, I know he cannot go too far off schedule because leaves very early for work
 
Ok give it about 10 more minutes for Chris to chime in. If she doesn't, I'd go 0.25U (to the best of your ability to eyeball on the syringe), catch a +2 and post here. I should still be around
 
FrostD said:
Ok give it about 10 more minutes for Chris to chime in. If she doesn't, I'd go 0.25U (to the best of your ability to eyeball on the syringe), catch a +2 and post here. I should still be around
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Cut dose by .25u or shoot at .25?
 
Sorry....went to feed the cat and noticed the dishes in the sink.

Glad you went with the token dose...when you get a little more data and experience under your belt, you could start to shoot anything over 150 (the scheduled dose). 148 would be close enough....of course with the caveat that you have plenty of test strips, medium and high carb food, Karo/honey/syrup and the ability to test as long as might be necessary.
 
I know you're overwhelmed with information, but for later reference - I'll tag @Hshray as a perfect example of learning to shoot lower and lower over time on ProZinc. Hopefully she'll stop by and you can see her spreadsheet (she's since switched to Lantus).
 
Thank you all for your responses.

I am a bit overwhelmed but willing to learn and ask for advice on whats the best thing to do.

Chris & China (GA) said:
Sorry....went to feed the cat and noticed the dishes in the sink.

Glad you went with the token dose...when you get a little more data and experience under your belt, you could start to shoot anything over 150 (the scheduled dose). 148 would be close enough....of course with the caveat that you have plenty of test strips, medium and high carb food, Karo/honey/syrup and the ability to test as long as might be necessary.
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So a normal dose in this situation would have been ok?
 
Biggietoms said:
So a normal dose in this situation would have been ok?
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As I said....once you have more data and experience! 3 days worth of data isn't enough to shoot lower Pre-shots but later on, when you have a better idea of how Bear reacts to both food and insulin and understand what his usual onset time is, when his usual nadir is, what kind of duration he usually gets....these are all things you learn with experience and lots of testing data.

Has anything been different today? Different food? Not eating as much?
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
As I said....once you have more data and experience! 3 days worth of data isn't enough to shoot lower Pre-shots but later on, when you have a better idea of how Bear reacts to both food and insulin and understand what his usual onset time is, when his usual nadir is, what kind of duration he usually gets....these are all things you learn with experience and lots of testing data.

Has anything been different today? Different food? Not eating as much?
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He only had half a can for lunch. I usually give him 3 a day. he was acting Hungry as usual. He was caught walking out of the Pantry with a load of bread.
 
Aw come on Bear! No shenanigans allowed tonight.

To add to what Chris said - it's generally better to give some insulin vs none (but not always... sometimes it is better to skip).

Ideally, you would have stalled for 20 mins without feeding (don't worry, nearly everyone makes that mistake the first time). We want to see if he was rising on his own without food. If he was, then pretty safe bet to shoot something on the higher side (half to full dose). Since he had already eaten and you can't be too far off schedule, no way of knowing. So based on the data you do have, I went with what I thought was pretty conservative 0.25U. Had you shot the full 1U we'd be having a pretty interesting night.

It's possible the last few cycles were bounces, and he's breaking that bounce throughout the day and heading into PMPS. Right now a bit hard to say if 1U overall is too much, tonight will tell.

Per the more conservative ProZinc dosing method, your new dose (effective tomorrow AM) would be 0.75U because he dropped below 90. But let's see what happens tonight and if we might want to consider lower than that.
 
FrostD said:
Aw come on Bear! No shenanigans allowed tonight.

To add to what Chris said - it's generally better to give some insulin vs none (but not always... sometimes it is better to skip).

Ideally, you would have stalled for 20 mins without feeding (don't worry, nearly everyone makes that mistake the first time). We want to see if he was rising on his own without food. If he was, then pretty safe bet to shoot something on the higher side (half to full dose). Since he had already eaten and you can't be too far off schedule, no way of knowing. So based on the data you do have, I went with what I thought was pretty conservative 0.25U. Had you shot the full 1U we'd be having a pretty interesting night.

It's possible the last few cycles were bounces, and he's breaking that bounce throughout the day and heading into PMPS. Right now a bit hard to say if 1U overall is too much, tonight will tell.

Per the more conservative ProZinc dosing method, your new dose (effective tomorrow AM) would be 0.75U because he dropped below 90. But let's see what happens tonight and if we might want to consider lower than that.
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Yeah, next time its test and stop and get advice and not go on like business as usual. I appreciate your help.
 
Biggietoms said:
He was caught walking out of the Pantry with a load of bread.
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Bad kitty!!

I finally had to start putting all bread products in my microwave. I tried my oven first, but then I forgot they were in there and was baking a cake so I pre-heated the oven. Needless to say, you only make that mistake once! At least with the microwave, you have to open the door to put whatever you want to heat into it before you turn it on.:rolleyes::oops:
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Bad kitty!!

I finally had to start putting all bread products in my microwave. I tried my oven first, but then I forgot they were in there and was baking a cake so I pre-heated the oven. Needless to say, you only make that mistake once! At least with the microwave, you have to open the door to put whatever you want to heat into it before you turn it on.:rolleyes::oops:
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He has always had a thing for breads. When I first go him he got into some Almond Poppy Seed Muffins and ate some of the Muffin Tops. Always have to keep things locked down from now on.
 
Biggietoms said:
Do you guys pull shifts?
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It's a bit of a free for all. Some of us are on pretty much every day, some a few times a week. Lately I've been hit or miss, but I do check in if there's someone I've been helping/active conversations. Bron and Bhooma are Australia/India, and are usually the ones helping people at night US time.
 
Can you do me a favor and change the thread title to "10/17 - Newly Diagnosed Bear - PMPS 148, +2 89, +3 74"? That will help those scanning the board to know to keep an eye out when they see that number trend
 
Biggietoms said:
Do you guys pull shifts?
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not exactly but those of us that have been here for years know when each of us is online. Bron is in Australia and Bhooma (Bandit's mom) is in India, so they're just starting their day when those of us in the US are starting to wind down.

But we also have a tradition here. If somebody encourages you to shoot a lower PS than you're used to, they agree to stay online as long as necessary to make sure you and your cat are both doing OK....or find someone else they trust that can take over for them.

We don't advise somebody to shoot and then disappear on them (although we have it happen in the opposite direction occasionally and it drives us crazy. We're waiting for updates to make sure everything's OK and the original poster doesn't update us)
 
FrostD said:
Can you do me a favor and change the thread title to "10/17 - Newly Diagnosed Bear - PMPS 148, +2 89, +3 74"? That will help those scanning the board to know to keep an eye out when they see that number trend
Click to expand...

how do i change the thread title?

Edit: I figured it out.
 
Perfect! No food. One last test in an hour, then you're hopefully done. As long as he's flat/rising for 2 hrs without food, you're in the clear for the rest of the cycle.

Will post AM dose guidance in a minute ..
 
So for the AM dose, since you can't be home here are my thoughts. As we say "you hold the syringe" so by all means do what you're comfortable with, I probably won't be around at your shot time. Tonight's trend was a little unusual, so want to be careful.

Remember insulin is a hormone, it doesn't work the same way every time. So even though it dropped him 75+ points or 50% even with food tonight, it may not do the same tomorrow, or any other cycle. We just want to get to a point where you have enough data to see trends, and hopefully keep him above 90 for now so we have a buffer.

If he's above 185, I would stick with 0.25U. And try to hold that for a few days to see how he really does at that dose, provided it's safe to shoot, you can keep an eye on him, etc.

If he's below, I would stall for 20 mins without feeding if you can. If he goes above 185 with that stall, then I'd lean towards 0.25U. If you can't stall and/or he's under, I would skip.

I believe you said you can get a +2 before you leave the house, I would do that. Try to get him to eat a little LC before you leave. But if he's below 90, which I absolutely do not expect using 185 as cutoff, I'd leave 1-2 tsp MC
 
FrostD said:
So for the AM dose, since you can't be home here are my thoughts. As we say "you hold the syringe" so by all means do what you're comfortable with, I probably won't be around at your shot time. Tonight's trend was a little unusual, so want to be careful.

Remember insulin is a hormone, it doesn't work the same way every time. So even though it dropped him 75+ points or 50% even with food tonight, it may not do the same tomorrow, or any other cycle. We just want to get to a point where you have enough data to see trends, and hopefully keep him above 90 for now so we have a buffer.

If he's above 185, I would stick with 0.25U. And try to hold that for a few days to see how he really does at that dose, provided it's safe to shoot, you can keep an eye on him, etc.

If he's below, I would stall for 20 mins without feeding if you can. If he goes above 185 with that stall, then I'd lean towards 0.25U. If you can't stall and/or he's under, I would skip.

I believe you said you can get a +2 before you leave the house, I would do that. Try to get him to eat a little LC before you leave. But if he's below 90, which I absolutely do not expect using 185 as cutoff, I'd leave 1-2 tsp MC
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Ok ill test in an hour and post.

Ill follow your guidance. I cannot get a +2 before I leave, I usually leave after shooting.
 
I do have to head to bed, I think you're out of the troublesome part.

I'll set an alarm for an hour just to check on you.

Gotcha about the +2, no worries. You may want to consider 200 as the shoot/no shoot cutoff for now then. Up to you.
 
FrostD said:
I do have to head to bed, I think you're out of the troublesome part.

I'll set an alarm for an hour just to check on you.

Gotcha about the +2, no worries. You may want to consider 200 as the shoot/no shoot cutoff for now then. Up to you.
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Thanks for your help! Goodnight.
 
FrostD said:
I know you're overwhelmed with information, but for later reference - I'll tag @Hshray as a perfect example of learning to shoot lower and lower over time on ProZinc. Hopefully she'll stop by and you can see her spreadsheet (she's since switched to Lantus).
Click to expand...
@Biggietoms I’m just popping in to say hi and that you’re doing a good job tonight! Bear is definitely keeping you busy!

As Melissa mentioned, I gradually started shooting lower and lower numbers when I was using Prozinc if you want to take a look at my spreadsheet sometime when you’re less busy. I was actually scared to shoot lower numbers at first (for like kind of a long time), but George didn’t do well on token doses so over time I gradually reduced the number I was comfortable shooting full doses on and ended up shooting full doses in the greens once I had enough data and guidance (mostly from Melissa :)).

Anyway I don’t want to take up too much of your feed since you’re busy tonight, but you’re doing a great job, and seeing some really nice numbers especially for being so newly diagnosed!
 
Bear is 155 @ +11.

Has eaten 2 can of food today. Breakfast at 3am, Lunch at 9.

Should I stick with the advice from Melissa and maybe skip?

FrostD said:
So for the AM dose, since you can't be home here are my thoughts. As we say "you hold the syringe" so by all means do what you're comfortable with, I probably won't be around at your shot time. Tonight's trend was a little unusual, so want to be careful.

Remember insulin is a hormone, it doesn't work the same way every time. So even though it dropped him 75+ points or 50% even with food tonight, it may not do the same tomorrow, or any other cycle. We just want to get to a point where you have enough data to see trends, and hopefully keep him above 90 for now so we have a buffer.

If he's above 185, I would stick with 0.25U. And try to hold that for a few days to see how he really does at that dose, provided it's safe to shoot, you can keep an eye on him, etc.

If he's below, I would stall for 20 mins without feeding if you can. If he goes above 185 with that stall, then I'd lean towards 0.25U. If you can't stall and/or he's under, I would skip.

I believe you said you can get a +2 before you leave the house, I would do that. Try to get him to eat a little LC before you leave. But if he's below 90, which I absolutely do not expect using 185 as cutoff, I'd leave 1-2 tsp MC
Click to expand...
 
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