Newly diagnosed cat, need help with peeing issues

[Charlotte Spiegel]

Hi all,

Came across this forum and I hope you all can help me. I adopted a 13 year old cat in January from a couple that were moving to Hawaii and didn't want to take him. He was so lovely at first, but he did tend to pee on thing, like clothes left on the floor, bathroom rug etc. So I researched, thought it was all behavioral, vet agreed, etc. Cut to six month, he started peeing everywhere, ruined my brand new couch, peed on my bed, everything. I have removed every soft item from my house, or put it in closets. Well about a month ago now, vet diagnosed him with diabetes after they did some blood work. As awful, stressful, limiting and expensive as it has been doing all that, which I am happy to do cuz its not his fault he's sick. I thought it would stop the peeing but it hasn't. Trust me when I say I have tried everything, Nature's Miracle does nothing, he has two, open top, perfectly clean litter boxes that he uses often. I don't leave any clothes out, don't have any small area rugs, my second new couch is covered in a blue home depot tarp 24/7 now. But my bed, sometimes while I am in it sleeping, it's just so so so infuriating. I love him a lot but I am reaching the point of wanting to get rid of him because it is starting to make me really miserable. But if I get rid of him, aside from one diabetic cat rehoming charity I found, looks like most places will put him down which makes me so sad. He really is a lovely cat and I don't want to get rid of him, but I feel like I can't have guests over, I feel like I can't date cuz I don't want to subject anyone to, I just don't know what to do anymore. I don't want to hate him at all, but the peeing is making me start to resent him I think.

I would love any and all suggestions, just please note I have done all the Nature's Miracle stuff and Litter box suggestions. Any time I see or hear him kneading something I stare at him til he's done to make sure he's not peeing. The previous owner said he was neutured but is it possible he's not? I really just don't know anymore.

Cat's name is Darthy (short for Darth Vader)

Thanks, Charlotte

 

[JanetNJ]

. I thought it would stop the peeing but it hasn't.

HI... I'm sorry to hear you are having this stressful time. I've been there with various cats over the years. You said he's been treated for a month, but I have a few questions. Which insulin is it and what is his dose? What food are you feeding? are you testing several times a day at home? if so can you post a log of his numbers? Typically once the blood glucose is under control the peeing behavior stops. it can take a while to regulate a cat. I have one (not diabetic) that does NOT like to use the litterbox. for her I put out puppy training pads in front of the box and that's where she goes.... that's worth a try in the meantime.

My favorite cleaners are Anti Icky Poo unscented and angry orange. (both found on amazon).

 

[Charlotte Spiegel]

HI... I'm sorry to hear you are having this stressful time. I've been there with various cats over the years. You said he's been treated for a month, but I have a few questions. Which insulin is it and what is his dose? What food are you feeding? are you testing several times a day at home? if so can you post a log of his numbers? Typically once the blood glucose is under control the peeing behavior stops. it can take a while to regulate a cat. I have one (not diabetic) that does NOT like to use the litterbox. for her I put out puppy training pads in front of the box and that's where she goes.... that's worth a try in the meantime.

My favorite cleaners are Anti Icky Poo unscented and angry orange. (both found on amazon).

He takes Vetsulin, two units twice a day. The vet said we could move him to 3 as of just last Friday but then 'd have to be super vigilant of hypoglycemia and that sort of freaked me out so decided to stick with the two and she said that was fine too. I believe the last blood work they did he was at 318, before insulin it was in the 700s. For food he gets the Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diets DM Dietetic Management Feline Formula (also vet recommended). He gets 1/2 can of wet in the morning and the other half at night. I give him a small snack of the same brand's dry food mid day. He acts like is constantly starving if I don't do the snack. The food is really expensive. The vet told me I didn't need to do at home testing, they have done a couple fructosamine tests so far. She wants to do a glucose curve in the next couple months to see his levels throughout the day.

I will go to petsmart and try the puppy pee pads, and thanks for the cleaner recommendations. It's too the point where I hate the Nature's Miracle smell so much that I associate it with the pee smell and can't distinguish them.

 

[JanetNJ]

He takes Vetsulin, two units twice a day. The vet said we could move him to 3 as of just last Friday but then 'd have to be super vigilant of hypoglycemia and that sort of freaked me out so decided to stick with the two and she said that was fine too.

Vetsulin was created for use in dogs, who have a slower metabolisim than cats. Some cats do fine on it... my cat did well on it in the beginning... but many find that vetsulin is too harsh (drops the fast) and doesn't have a long enough duration. The recommended insulins for cats are Prozinc and Lantus... so if you find that your cat isn't getting 10+ hours of duration you may consider switching.

It sounds like your vet is raising the dose at too much of an increase at a time. We usually recommend raising in 0 .25-0.5 increments at a time. The best way to find out if your cat needs an increase or is getting too much is by home testing... which is not as hard as it sounds unless you have a skiddish cat. I have a video link in my signature showing how I tested my cat CC at home. Fructosamine tests tell you the average of the previous two weeks, but they don't tell you what your cat is in the moment. So your cat could be very high, and crash to hypo levels mid day, and a fructosamine test will show that he's doing well. home testing and doing curves at home is cheaper than bringing your cat for frequent vet visits, too. Once i started home testing she didn't go back for a year. home testing is more accurate too because they arent stressed at home like they are at the vet, which can cause the numbers to rise.

For food he gets the Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diets DM Dietetic Management Feline Formula (also vet recommended). He gets 1/2 can of wet in the morning and the other half at night. I give him a small snack of the same brand's dry food mid day. He acts like is constantly starving if I don't do the snack.

THe DM wet food is good carb wise, but the dry is too high in carbs despite being marketed for diabetics. both are wayyy expensive. Honestly you don't need prescription food at all. You just need a low carb wet food. Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classic or Friskies pate. MUCH cheaper. Here is a link to a food chart. You just need to pick foods under 10 % carb. https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

it's perfectly fine to feed snacks. Small, frequent meals are better. I aways fed 4 times a day. Just no food at least two hours prior to the preshot test when/if you start home testing.

so many of those cleaners STINK. the anti icky poo UNSCENTED truly has no scent.

 

[Charlotte Spiegel]

Vetsulin was created for use in dogs, who have a slower metabolisim than cats. Some cats do fine on it... my cat did well on it in the beginning... but many find that vetsulin is too harsh (drops the fast) and doesn't have a long enough duration. The recommended insulins for cats are Prozinc and Lantus... so if you find that your cat isn't getting 10+ hours of duration you may consider switching.

It sounds like your vet is raising the dose at too much of an increase at a time. We usually recommend raising in 0 .25-0.5 increments at a time. The best way to find out if your cat needs an increase or is getting too much is by home testing... which is not as hard as it sounds unless you have a skiddish cat. I have a video link in my signature showing how I tested my cat CC at home. Fructosamine tests tell you the average of the previous two weeks, but they don't tell you what your cat is in the moment. So your cat could be very high, and crash to hypo levels mid day, and a fructosamine test will show that he's doing well. home testing and doing curves at home is cheaper than bringing your cat for frequent vet visits, too. Once i started home testing she didn't go back for a year. home testing is more accurate too because they arent stressed at home like they are at the vet, which can cause the numbers to rise.


THe DM wet food is good carb wise, but the dry is too high in carbs despite being marketed for diabetics. both are wayyy expensive. Honestly you don't need prescription food at all. You just need a low carb wet food. Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classic or Friskies pate. MUCH cheaper. Here is a link to a food chart. You just need to pick foods under 10 % carb. https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

it's perfectly fine to feed snacks. Small, frequent meals are better. I aways fed 4 times a day. Just no food at least two hours prior to the preshot test when/if you start home testing.

so many of those cleaners STINK. the anti icky poo UNSCENTED truly has no scent.

Thank you so much, I will cut out that dry food. Once I get through the wet I am going to try the Fancy Feast. I don't know why my vet doesn't want me home testing, maybe it's so I have to go in more and fork over more $$$.

So you think the reason he pees on my stuff is still the blood sugar being out of whack?

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you so much, I will cut out that dry food. Once I get through the wet I am going to try the Fancy Feast. I don't know why my vet doesn't want me home testing, maybe it's so I have to go in more and fork over more $$$.

So you think the reason he pees on my stuff is still the blood sugar being out of whack?

it' a definite possibility that the bs being out of wack is one of the causes. we've seen it a lot here. how are his kidneys? poor kidney function is another common cause. If you have a copy of the lab reports and can take a picture we could take a look. (upoading is not working on the forum right now so you would have to copy and paste). If you don't have them, you can call the vet receptionist and ask that they email you a copy. Has he been checked for a uti?

cutting out the dry will help. Instead i'd just feed extra wet food. is he under weight, overweight, or just right? what does he weigh?

i used to feed her morning, afternoon (i had a timed feeder for when i was at work), dinner time, and just before bed.

my vet didn't push home testing either. well, she said some do, most don't. I think sometimes they say you don't have to because otherwise people might think it was too much trouble and put their cats down. other vets might like the extra $$$ from visits. others might be control freaks who don't like the pet owner to have so much say or they think the pet owner will be unsafe with dose changes on their own. There are a LOT of very experienced people here though that can definitely help you in that department. I'm happy to give you a shopping list if you think it's something you might do. i started testing about 7 weeks after my cat was diagnosed The first week it's tricky for sure... but once i got the hang of it i wished i had started earlier because it took a lot of the stress of not knowing away. I wasn't getting up 3 times a night to make sure she wasn't hypo. hahaha

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

Copious amounts of peeing is a classic sign of hyperglycemia. My cat was put on Lantus when she was diagnosed after increased urination, ravenous appetite, weight loss, and diabetic ketoacidosis. After a week she felt a lot better and within a month and a half her glucose levels were very well regulated thanks to the help of everyone here on the FDMB. I'm so glad you found us. Welcome.

Agree with Janet that getting him on Prozinc or Lantus will help a lot. You don't have to finish that load of Purina DM--you can return it to the vet or pet store and get a full refund. It's guaranteed by the manufacturer. Just say your cat won't eat it (it's something they've heard before!) and get the Fancy Feast.

Your vet doesn't want you to home test because a lot of doctors don't think caregivers can handle the responsibility, will administer the wrong doses in response to blood meter readings and inadvertently induce hypoglycemia. With the guidance of the members here, we can help you with dosing in a slow and careful way.

 

[Chuckington]

Just adding that after getting his BG under control, you might find that there is still a behavioral component. My understanding is that excessive peeing usually means that they pee in the box and in other places. So they aren't avoiding the box, they just have to pee so bad that they go to the closest suitable place. If he literally never uses the box, makes no movements to try to get to the box, and only uses soft stuff, he might have just gotten used to peeing on soft stuff and has completely lost interest in the box. Or if he's learned to associate the box with discomfort, he's actively avoiding it.

For a behavioral issue, you can try litterbox retraining him.
Not sure if you're tried it. It sounds barbaric and will probably feel barbaric too, but it does work if you're firm.

So here's what you do.
You confine him to a room. Something tiled like the bathroom or a laundry room is ideal. If you don't have an appropriate room or it's not feasible, you can get a large kennel with a hard floor. I think you can rent out a dog kennel if you don't want to buy one. You'll need one big enough for a big dog. If you get the kennel, you might want to have something to cover it so he can't see you and get upset.
Take up everything soft, no mats, no towels, no fuzzy cover on the toilet lid, no blankets, no puppy pads, no nothing. Maybe some hard toys so he's not bored in there. Like balls or small mice. You can go in there to pet him and play with him (it's not solitary confinement lmao), but make sure not to leave anything that he can pee on.
Just him, food, water, and the litterbox in there.
You can also add some Dr. Elsey's cat attract to the box to get him more interested.

Close the door, and leave him in there until he uses the box.
He will probably scream and cry (I know Chucky would), but what is happening is that you're leaving him a choice -- pee on the hard floor and get his paws dirty or go in the litterbox, where he is supposed to.
If he's very stubborn or box averse, he may choose to pee on the floor a couple of times, which is going to suck because yes, you'll have to clean it lol.
But he will eventually tire of his paws getting wet and dirty and he will use the box.

Once he's used the box, fabulous, but don't let him out because he will likely go right back to the soft stuff that he knows and loves.
Keep him in there for another 5-7 days to reinforce the training.

If he continues to go properly, then he's ready for supervised release.
So you let him out for a couple of hours and observe him.
If he does well on his first outing, the next day, let him out for a little longer.
If he pees where he shouldn't, put him back on lockdown until he's consistently using the box and then give him another supervised release.
After 4-5 days of supervised release (adding an extra hour or two each consecutive day) and no inappropriate peeing, he's ready to be paroled into the world lol.
Put the litter boxes where they should be, show them to him so he knows where they are, and then enjoy your hopefully urine-free home.

While he's in lockdown, you definitely want to use that time to make sure to clean the crap out of everything that he's peed on, so he doesn't feel enticed to return to his life of crime. If you don't have one, get a blacklight and make absolutely sure. And hopefully, you can get some rest and regain some sanity.
There are YouTube videos and articles from behaviorists on this too, if you want to research further.

Good luck and bless you for trying to make this situation work.
I love cats too, but it sounds like a nightmarish situation and as someone who loves a clean home, idk if I could be as strong as you've been.
I really hope Mr. Vader cleans up his act and stops living up to his name lol.