High BG during day and lower BG at night

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Valentina

Valentina

Member Since 2021
Hi Hi

My kitty is taking 1 unit of Lantus since 1 month and a half and she has improved a lot. Her peeing and drinking got better, her appetite is good, she seems overall in good health. With 1 unit her BG's are below 250 for most of the day. Yesterday I started testing her at night and saw her BG was lower, around 160 at +3. I am not attempting to get her tighlty regulated, just want to make sure her kidneys are safe. Should I increase the dose?

I am a bit skeptical because I saw that with 1 unit her numbers have been decreasing a lot after one month (she used to be always above 350) so I am hoping perhaps it could improve even more. Also, I am not always around to monitor due to work and when I am not around my parents give her insulin and watch after her, but they don't know how to home test and I feel safe knowing she's getting only 1 unit and the risk of hypo is low when I am not around.

What do you think about the dose? Also I have changed her diet to wet food with no carbs (Prolife Diabetic wet food)

Thank you :)
 
Hi Valentina,

It's hard to say how much insulin she needs without enough data to see how low she is going on the current dose. Is it possible for you to do a curve once a week - on weekends if you cannot test during the week?

Is this the food that you are feeding her? Because when I put the analytic constituents in a carb calculator, I get 30%+ carbs which is very high carb.
https://www.prolife-pet.it/en/catalog/veterinary-formula/gatto-vet/diab/diabetic-cat-wet
 
The renal threshold is different for every cat. As Bhooma mentioned, it would help to see more data, 160 is still perfectly safe with room to improve. I suppose you could try the glucose test strips for urine to see? I don't know how well they work for cats.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Hi Valentina,

It's hard to say how much insulin she needs without enough data to see how low she is going on the current dose. Is it possible for you to do a curve once a week - on weekends if you cannot test during the week?

Is this the food that you are feeding her? Because when I put the analytic constituents in a carb calculator, I get 30%+ carbs which is very high carb.
https://www.prolife-pet.it/en/catalog/veterinary-formula/gatto-vet/diab/diabetic-cat-wet
Click to expand...

Hi Bhooma,

Thanks a lot for the help. I will try to do some curves this weekend. Regarding the food, where do you get such data? From the ingredients I can’t see any sources for carbs and on the packaging it says: “no carbohydrates”. Also it doesn’t have any gravy or anything so I can’t figure out where the 30% would come from..

thanks! :)
 
Valentina said:
Regarding the food, where do you get such data? From the ingredients I can’t see any sources for carbs and on the packaging it says: “no carbohydrates”. Also it doesn’t have any gravy or anything so I can’t figure out where the 30% would come from..
Click to expand...
I am going by the data given on the website:

Protein 6.5%,
fat content 2.2%,
inorganic matter 2%,
crude fibre 2,5%,
moisture 80%,
calcium 0.27%, phosphorus 0.18%, magnesium 0.03%, potassium 0.19%, sodium, 0.10%.

Using this carb calculator (http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html), I get 30% dry matter carbohydrates.

I am surprised because they are no other ingredients.
 
FrostD said:
The renal threshold is different for every cat. As Bhooma mentioned, it would help to see more data, 160 is still perfectly safe with room to improve. I suppose you could try the glucose test strips for urine to see? I don't know how well they work for cats.
Click to expand...
The glucose test strips work well for cats. That is how I diagnosed Max.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I am going by the data given on the website:

Protein 6.5%,
fat content 2.2%,
inorganic matter 2%,
crude fibre 2,5%,
moisture 80%,
calcium 0.27%, phosphorus 0.18%, magnesium 0.03%, potassium 0.19%, sodium, 0.10%.

Using this carb calculator (http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html), I get 30% dry matter carbohydrates.

I am surprised because they are no other ingredients.
Click to expand...

I messaged the company to inquire because it seems very odd, perhaps they made a mistake in listing the ingredients because 30% carbs is crazy and also, I don't see any significant food spikes when she eats it.. Anyways I have purchased another brand for the time being.

I did some BG curves this weekend and here are my numbers (with Alphatrak 2, as vet requested BG curves)

9:00AM - insulin
12:00PM (+3) - BG 400
13:00PM (+4) - BG 350
14:00 PM (+5) - BG 238
15:00 PM (+ 6) - BG 435
18:21 PM (+ 10) - BG 528
19:00 PM (+11) - Shot and feeding
20:00 PM (+1) - 496
22:00 PM (+3) - 419
23:00 PM (+4) - 418

(Yes I gave her insulin 1 hour in advance because her numbers were so high and I got scared)

I have some questions: how are the numbers so different with respect to the human glucometer? When I get a reading of BG 220 with the human one, it corresponds to a 350 one on the pet calibrated one. Should dosing be based on human numbers or pet numbers? Because 220 is fair, 350 is way too high.

I already know if I bring these numbers to my vet he'll say to give her 2 units, which I am tempted to do because I want to see her numbers go down. She has been on 1 unit since 1 month and a half now and her numbers are still way too high. Also, I feel like I can really monitor her better with home testing as I improved a lot and can keep her monitored in case I were to give her 2 units..

What should I do?
 
Valentina said:
I messaged the company to inquire because it seems very odd, perhaps they made a mistake in listing the ingredients because 30% carbs is crazy and also, I don't see any significant food spikes when she eats it.. Anyways I have purchased another brand for the time being.
Click to expand...
Ok. It will be interesting to see if and what they respond. Which is the other food? Can you share a link so I can check the carb%?

Pet meters read higher than human meters. The difference is pretty large at higher numbers. Most of us use human meters since the strips are far cheaper. Our dosing protocols are also written for human meters. There is no formula to convert one to the other.

If you have changed to a lower carb food, I would not increase the dose till I see how the food affects the numbers. A reduction in carbs combined with an increased dose can cause her numbers to drop dangerously low.

I think it's important that you find a low carb food that she will eat happily. I know that's easier said than done! :( It may make a big difference to her numbers. Of course, this is assuming that the previous food was indeed high carb.

We increase in multiples of 0.25U (Or 0.5U if numbers are consistently over 300). This ensures that you don't bypass a good dose. You can increase as often as every 3 days with TR (if you don't see nadirs below 200).

The problem with relying entirely on a curve (without spot checks on other days) is that if it's a bounce cycle, it will not give you an accurate picture of how low the dose is taking her numbers.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Ok. It will be interesting to see if and what they respond. Which is the other food? Can you share a link so I can check the carb%?

Pet meters read higher than human meters. The difference is pretty large at higher numbers. Most of us use human meters since the strips are far cheaper. Our dosing protocols are also written for human meters. There is no formula to convert one to the other.

If you have changed to a lower carb food, I would not increase the dose till I see how the food affects the numbers. A reduction in carbs combined with an increased dose can cause her numbers to drop dangerously low.

I think it's important that you find a low carb food that she will eat happily. I know that's easier said than done! :( It may make a big difference to her numbers. Of course, this is assuming that the previous food was indeed high carb.

We increase in multiples of 0.25U (Or 0.5U if numbers are consistently over 300). This ensures that you don't bypass a good dose. You can increase as often as every 3 days with TR (if you don't see nadirs below 200).

The problem with relying entirely on a curve (without spot checks on other days) is that if it's a bounce cycle, it will not give you an accurate picture of how low the dose is taking her numbers.
Click to expand...

this is her new food:
https://www.zooplus.it/shop/gatti/c...uAgRdZy0nUvYltW3fmI6GGCEBo4niw-BoCfOQQAvD_BwE

the analytical components are as follows:

Proteine gregge 11.0 % (Proteins)
Grassi greggi 5.2 % (Fats)
Fibre grezze 0.3 % (Fiber)
Ceneri gregge 1.6 % (Ash)
Umidità 80.5 % (Moisture)
Taurina 0.6 g/kg (Taurin)

tried to calculate it myself and got around 5-6% of carbs.

Honestly I still think the pro-life one is low carbs and they reported the analytical components wrong, will keep you updated once customer service replies.

So should I wait to see how she reacts to the new food before increasing the dose? I am so frustrated in seeing her drinking a lot and her BG levels being so high..

Is it okay that I am trying to get her much water intake? I put some in her food as I don’t want her to develop Ketones...
 
Valentina said:
this is her new food:
https://www.zooplus.it/shop/gatti/c...uAgRdZy0nUvYltW3fmI6GGCEBo4niw-BoCfOQQAvD_BwE

the analytical components are as follows:

Proteine gregge 11.0 % (Proteins)
Grassi greggi 5.2 % (Fats)
Fibre grezze 0.3 % (Fiber)
Ceneri gregge 1.6 % (Ash)
Umidità 80.5 % (Moisture)
Taurina 0.6 g/kg (Taurin)

tried to calculate it myself and got around 5-6% of carbs.
Click to expand...
Yup. This is on the UK food list and is 5.6% carbs so it is low carb!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml

Valentina said:
So should I wait to see how she reacts to the new food before increasing the dose? I am so frustrated in seeing her drinking a lot and her BG levels being so high..
Click to expand...
Yes and try and get as many tests as you can in the next few days. I know it is difficult with you work schedule but whenever you can just grab a test. Any info is good info. Who knows you may catch a lower number at some point. Use the human meter! :-)
 
@Bandit's Mom Bhooma I am quite worried - my cat was totally fine, didn't poop yesterday, pooped tonight and now she somehow got diarrhea, she keeps going to her litter box and is restless. I don't understand what's going on.

Her BG was 189 one hour ago (with Alphatrak).

I fed her the Purina wet DM earlier, could it be because of that? Could it be DKA or related to diabetes? :( Very scared, I've never seen her so restless, she even hid from me.
 
Some cats get diarrhea when transitioning from one food to another. Did you switch cold turkey or did you transition gradually over a few days?
 
I didn't even transition yet - I ran out of the Pro-life food and ordered the other one which should arrive tomorrow. In the meantime, I fed her the Purina DM wet which I had here. Should I be worried? I don't understand what's going on.
 
When you say diarrhea, do you mean the stools are soft? Is she going frequently or is it only the soft stools?

Has she had Purina DM before?

All cats have diarrhea every now and then for various reasons. Unless it persists, don't worry about it. It has nothing to do with diabetes or DKA!
 
Thank you for reassuring me! She did some soft stool (not too liquid, just very soft and smelly) and then she keeps being very bothered by her bottom.. keeps licking it. Then she went to the litter box multiple times without actually pooping, just going there and struggling, but without letting anything out.. poor baby :( The good thing is that it is not DKA.. I gave her some water and some chicken
 
Maybe the Purina DM did not agree with her? Just watch out for her litterbox movements.
Do you have any probiotic you can give her? S. Boulardii is very good for diarrhea.
 
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