8/2, Susie, 86 @+2, 84 @+2.5, 49 @+3, 62 @3.5, 57 @4.2

Summer and Susie (GA)

Summer and Susie (GA)

Member Since 2020
@Bandit's Mom

I am conflicted. Susie dropped from 202 at AMPS to 155 at +1.2. Should I give a little l/c now or just wait to see what her +2 will be since I will be getting that is about 40 minutes? I don't know if she will continue to come down fast or not and her numbers are still high so I don't want to ruin a good drop if she is going to have one.
 
Summer and Susie said:
@Bandit's Mom

I am conflicted. Susie dropped from 202 at AMPS to 155 at +1.2. Should I give a little l/c now or just wait to see what her +2 will be since I will be getting that is about 40 minutes? I don't know if she will continue to come down fast or not and her numbers are still high so I don't want to ruin a good drop if she is going to have one.
Click to expand...
That's quite a drop at +1. Give her a spoon of LC now and get a +2.
Looks like she's clearing the bounce.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
That's quite a drop at +1. Give her a spoon of LC now and get a +2.
Looks like she's clearing the bounce.
Click to expand...
Bandit's Mom said:
Just saw this. What do you mean by temporarily?
Click to expand...
I have seen some folks do a partial shot. In other words, their normal dose might be 2 units but due to a concern with a preshot number, or an inability to test and monitor, they will only give 1 unit. Then they will go back up to the normal 2 units at the next shot time.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
That's quite a drop at +1. Give her a spoon of LC now and get a +2.
Looks like she's clearing the bounce.
Click to expand...
Saw this a little late but did give her 1 tsp l/c around +1.5. I keep forgetting that it can take several cycles to clear a bounce and I got a little impatient when I increased slightly this morning (from 1.75 to 1.75 fat). Do you think I made a mistake increasing? Even on the 1.75 her numbers were still a touch higher than I would have wanted.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I'm so sorry Summer, dumb question is she in remission?
Good luck with the increase tomorrow ♥:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

My Mom is not in remission. She gets something called "Biologics" about once a month for two days - back to back. It is similar to chemo but doctor says it is not. It is given in infusions like the chemo then he does blood test to see if it is helping. A couple of months ago it was not helping but when we saw him last Friday he said she had a slight improvement.
 
Summer and Susie said:
I have seen some folks do a partial shot. In other words, their normal dose might be 2 units but due to a concern with a preshot number, or an inability to test and monitor, they will only give 1 unit. Then they will go back up to the normal 2 units at the next shot time.
Click to expand...
Yes, that a BCS or a token shot given when you cannot monitor or the depot is overfull (with large dose cats) and you want to drain it. Even with a token shot the first part of the cycle would be influenced by the depot.

Summer and Susie said:
Saw this a little late but did give her 1 tsp l/c around +1.5. I keep forgetting that it can take several cycles to clear a bounce and I got a little impatient when I increased slightly this morning (from 1.75 to 1.75 fat). Do you think I made a mistake increasing? Even on the 1.75 her numbers were still a touch higher than I would have wanted.
Click to expand...
It's good you fed at +1.5, that's quite a drop at +2. Did you feed again?
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yes, that a BCS or a token shot given when you cannot monitor or the depot is overfull (with large dose cats) and you want to drain it. Even with a token shot the first part of the cycle would be influenced by the depot.


It's good you fed at +1.5, that's quite a drop at +2. Did you feed again?
Click to expand...
I gave her 1 tsp m/c at +2. I just checked her again at +2.5 and she was at 84 so the m/c helped. I have to leave for about 45 minutes around 9:00 (+3.2) this morning. Will test and feed l/c or m/c at +3.
 
Summer and Susie said:
@Bandit's Mom

I am conflicted. Susie dropped from 202 at AMPS to 155 at +1.2. Should I give a little l/c now or just wait to see what her +2 will be since I will be getting that is about 40 minutes? I don't know if she will continue to come down fast or not and her numbers are still high so I don't want to ruin a good drop if she is going to have one.
Click to expand...
Just my 2 cents, if you are conflicted with what to do, it is better to “ruin” the cycle, keep her a bit higher but make sure she stays on this dose, than risk letting her drop under 50.
1. such a huge drop would be a cause for a bounce and
2. there is the risk of having to lower the dose too early.
As a good example of tanking a cycle is the 05th of March AM: we over honeyed Chico, from 140AMPS He dropped to 86@1.5, i completely freaked out and gave him a loot of honey (Chico was dropping like a rock in the beginning), he rose to 149@3 but then continued dropping again (because that is what his body was ready to do :) ) and got to 61@7. I don’t know if he would have dropped under 50 that day had i not exaggerated with honey but i did manage to avoid “the worse” case scenario of having to reduce the dose too soon. Chico got regulated on the 2.0 unit dose. (Just to be clear: the cycle i give as an example is very nice to see that their bodies will continue in their trend even if we overreact, it is not a good example of how to handle dropping values :D)

By keeping Susie higher for one cycle would not keep her higher overall just would ensure that she wouldn’t drop under 50 and ask for another reduction a bit too soon.
Just to be clear, i do not mean that we should try to keep them with any price at a certain dose: when they want a reduction we should give them the reduction. The above applies for bounce clearing cycles mainly, which are much more active and which are very often followed by a dose reduction.

good luck with the fat dose :bighug:
 
I hope Susie slows down and surfs safely so you don't have to worry when you leave for your Mom's appointment. I hope the appointment goes well. Sending prayers.

For future reference, even though you saw a few blues yesterday Susie was mostly flat and most of that was yellow. That can be an indication the next cycle will be active, which is what you are seeing today. I know it is sometimes hard to see patterns. Hopefully that helps you in the future. :bighug::bighug:
 
Dropping by your condo after a few days not being around.. I will share my 2 cents. I think for someone who wants regulation, not remission, I feel like you are rushing to do increases. You increased after only 5 cycles after Susie's last greens. If you go back and look at her patterns, she tends to ask for a reduction after 10+ cycles. You need to have some patience :bighug: The greens you are seeing today is from 1.75 not 1.75F.

I hope Susie levels out today so you can focus on your mom. :)
 
Marina & Chico said:
Just my 2 cents, if you are conflicted with what to do, it is better to “ruin” the cycle, keep her a bit higher but make sure she stays on this dose, than risk letting her drop under 50.
1. such a huge drop would be a cause for a bounce and
2. there is the risk of having to lower the dose too early.
As a good example of tanking a cycle is the 05th of March AM: we over honeyed Chico, from 140AMPS He dropped to 86@1.5, i completely freaked out and gave him a loot of honey (Chico was dropping like a rock in the beginning), he rose to 149@3 but then continued dropping again (because that is what his body was ready to do :) ) and got to 61@7. I don’t know if he would have dropped under 50 that day had i not exaggerated with honey but i did manage to avoid “the worse” case scenario of having to reduce the dose too soon. Chico got regulated on the 2.0 unit dose. (Just to be clear: the cycle i give as an example is very nice to see that their bodies will continue in their trend even if we overreact, it is not a good example of how to handle dropping values :D)

By keeping Susie higher for one cycle would not keep her higher overall just would ensure that she wouldn’t drop under 50 and ask for another reduction a bit too soon.
Just to be clear, i do not mean that we should try to keep them with any price at a certain dose: when they want a reduction we should give them the reduction. The above applies for bounce clearing cycles mainly, which are much more active and which are very often followed by a dose reduction.

good luck with the fat dose :bighug:
Click to expand...
Thanks. I think you are right about not taking any chances. She did drop to 49 at +3 so I fed a little l/c (which I already had ready for her) and supplemented with a tsp of h/c. I had just "fattened" her 1.75 dose this morning so I won't take a real reduction. I'll just shave the fat off and go back to her normal 1.75 dose tonight. I agree about trying to keep them above 50 if you don't want the reduction and I didn't. In fact I had just increased. Do you think it is okay if I just shave the "fat" off her 1.75 dose and not take a regular reduction? She has not really been getting good numbers consistently on the 1.75 anyway.
 
carfurby said:
I hope Susie slows down and surfs safely so you don't have to worry when you leave for your Mom's appointment. I hope the appointment goes well. Sending prayers.

For future reference, even though you saw a few blues yesterday Susie was mostly flat and most of that was yellow. That can be an indication the next cycle will be active, which is what you are seeing today. I know it is sometimes hard to see patterns. Hopefully that helps you in the future. :bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
It is hard to see patterns and I still get confused with the flat number that will more than likely lead to an active cycle. I will have to study her ss more to see if I see those flat cycles that have lead to active cycles. Thank you. I'm not too terribly worried about leaving for my Mom's doctor appointment this afternoon because I know the insulin is probably starting to wear a little thin and if she is low prior to the appt. I will give her h/c.
 
Mandy & Rex said:
Dropping by your condo after a few days not being around.. I will share my 2 cents. I think for someone who wants regulation, not remission, I feel like you are rushing to do increases. You increased after only 5 cycles after Susie's last greens. If you go back and look at her patterns, she tends to ask for a reduction after 10+ cycles. You need to have some patience :bighug: The greens you are seeing today is from 1.75 not 1.75F.

I hope Susie levels out today so you can focus on your mom. :)
Click to expand...
I agree that her low numbers today are not from the "fat" I added this morning. She just seemed to be dragging the 1.75 dose out with no consistent good numbers and too many yellows. I should know better than to mess with a dose less than 6 days after an adjustment because she is going to turn around and surprise me at the last minute. Thanks for stopping by, Mandy.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Do you think it is okay if I just shave the "fat" off her 1.75 dose and not take a regular reduction?
Click to expand...
I think you are okay to stay with 1.75u. With the meter variance, that 49 could have been on the other side of 50. If it is easy to keep her above 50, it should be fine. If you find it difficult to keep her above 50 when she gives you a low number, then a reduction would be recommended.

I just saw a color mistake on your ss. Can you please fix the 220 last night to be yellow, not blue?
 
Mandy & Rex said:
I think you are okay to stay with 1.75u. With the meter variance, that 49 could have been on the other side of 50. If it is easy to keep her above 50, it should be fine. If you find it difficult to keep her above 50 when she gives you a low number, then a reduction would be recommended.

I just saw a color mistake on your ss. Can you please fix the 220 last night to be yellow, not blue?
Click to expand...
Just tried to change the color and it won't put the info in the box. @Bandit's Mom can you help me get the data (220, .75 oz l/c) into my +2 box for last night? It is not entering in the box.
 
Summer and Susie said:
My Mom is not in remission. She gets something called "Biologics" about once a month for two days - back to back. It is similar to chemo but doctor says it is not. It is given in infusions like the chemo then he does blood test to see if it is helping. A couple of months ago it was not helping but when we saw him last Friday he said she had a slight improvement.
Click to expand...
I'M glad there was a slight improvement ♥
Good luck today with her doctor's visit ♥:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Nice cycle today, stay safe Susie
 
Last edited:
Summer and Susie said:
Thanks. I think you are right about not taking any chances. She did drop to 49 at +3 so I fed a little l/c (which I already had ready for her) and supplemented with a tsp of h/c. I had just "fattened" her 1.75 dose this morning so I won't take a real reduction. I'll just shave the fat off and go back to her normal 1.75 dose tonight. I agree about trying to keep them above 50 if you don't want the reduction and I didn't. In fact I had just increased. Do you think it is okay if I just shave the "fat" off her 1.75 dose and not take a regular reduction? She has not really been getting good numbers consistently on the 1.75 anyway.
Click to expand...
I actually agree with @Mandy & Rex that you most probably would have seen the same pattern with 1.75 since it was the 6th cycle after last green, which most probably was just a long bounce.

Please keep in mind that i am not in a position to give dosing advice, but if it were Chico i would have opted for keeping the 1.75 dose; i would have preferred to give him more time on a dose on which he sees good values.
 
Marina & Chico said:
I actually agree with @Mandy & Rex that you most probably would have seen the same pattern with 1.75 since it was the 6th cycle after last green, which most probably was just a long bounce.

Please keep in mind that i am not in a position to give dosing advice, but if it were Chico i would have opted for keeping the 1.75 dose; i would have preferred to give him more time on a dose on which he sees good values.
Click to expand...
Maybe I have been looking at this all wrong. I'm always looking at the length of time she has stayed on a certain dose and not the last time she saw any greens - even high ones. If most of her days are high and flat then this should not be a consideration? I should be counting the cycles after her last greens? Even high greens? Also, the bouncing. Was she bouncing all day on July 31st and August 1st? I just thought the dose had worn out and she needed an increase. It is really hard for me to tell the difference between a bounce (if it is not really high) and the lack of duration of a dose and the need to an increase. Thanks for all your help. :smuggrin:
 
iu
 
Have to take my Mom to the doctor in about 40 minutes. Susie just got a 75. I am planning on giving her 1 TBLS of h/c before I leave. Will this be enough?
 
Last edited:
Summer and Susie said:
Have to take my Mom to the doctor in about 40 minutes. Susie just got a 75. I am planning on giving her 1 TBLS of h/c before I leave. Will this be enough?
Click to expand...
She has been flat the last few hours so i wouldnt expect her to dive so late in the cycle, but if you feel more comfortable you can always give some HC
 
Marina & Chico said:
She has been flat the last few hours so i wouldnt expect her to dive so late in the cycle, but if you feel more comfortable you can always give some HC
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for getting back with me. I am just not comfortable without giving the h/c because she has been know to "double dip" and I don't know how long I will be. Thanks, again!!!!!!
 
Summer and Susie said:
Maybe I have been looking at this all wrong. I'm always looking at the length of time she has stayed on a certain dose and not the last time she saw any greens - even high ones. If most of her days are high and flat then this should not be a consideration? I should be counting the cycles after her last greens? Even high greens? Also, the bouncing. Was she bouncing all day on July 31st and August 1st? I just thought the dose had worn out and she needed an increase. It is really hard for me to tell the difference between a bounce (if it is not really high) and the lack of duration of a dose and the need to an increase. Thanks for all your help. :smuggrin:
Click to expand...
A good indicator that she has had some success on this dose is the fact that she had a nice cycle on the 30th of July AM, that cycle was the 6th on the 1.75 dose so the chance of it being influenced by the 2.0 dose was small. Then she bounced for 5 cycles and on the 6th she decided to come down. Had she not come down today AM that would be an indicator that she needed an increase, so you would have taken the correct decision, only that you took it one cycle too soon :)
 
Summer and Susie said:
Question: What is the protocol for reducing a dose temporarily? I see many people, at times, decide to do a dose reduction based on an AMPS or PMPS and not due to an earned reduction. When is this allowed?
Click to expand...
There is no protocol for reducing a dose temporarily. People should not be reducing a dose based on AMPS or PMPS, unless the BG test at those times is below 50 using a human meter for those following TR, or below 90 for those following SLGS. However, there are provisions in the SLGS method for shooting a one time reduced doses for those new to Lantus/Levemir. In general, a one time reduction doesn't do much to impact the following cycle. Due to the nature of the depot, the cycle plays out a lot like you had shot the full dose. So, it's not a great option.

There are times when people need to reduce the dose because they are going on vacation and a pet sitter won't test or test enough, but I don't think that's your question. There are also examples where people have cats on higher doses (or certain secondary endocrine conditions) and need to reduce an overfull depot, so do a reduced dose in order to do that. That isn't necessary for a cat on as small a dose as Susie is.
 
Do not look at the high numbers when you decide if Susie needs an increase. Look at the greens. How long had it been since she last saw greens? That's what you should be looking at. It is recommended to wait 6-10 cycles. With Susie, I think it's better to wait 10 cycles, not only 6. She had greens on 7/20 then not again until 7/25. You stuck with 2u and 2 days later, Susie asked for a reduction.

Yes, bounces can last several cycles. That's why you want to see if she has a few yellows in a row.. that usually predicts a bounce breaking cycle coming shortly. If you think an active cycle is coming, you can take action and prop up the numbers so she doesn't drop past 50 and you can hold that dose longer to encourage her body to not panic every time it sees a green. If you want regulation, then you want high greens and low blues.
 
Marina & Chico said:
A good indicator that she has had some success on this dose is the fact that she had a nice cycle on the 30th of July AM, that cycle was the 6th on the 1.75 dose so the chance of it being influenced by the 2.0 dose was small. Then she bounced for 5 cycles and on the 6th she decided to come down. Had she not come down today AM that would be an indicator that she needed an increase, so you would have taken the correct decision, only that you took it one cycle too soon :)
Click to expand...
Hummmmm. So what you are saying is that after Susie has a good cycle, with good greens, I should give it at least 6 cycles to see if she comes back down again? If not, then I can consider an increase? I never knew any of this and never saw the pattern. In other words, I need to put my "patient pants" on and look more at the number of cycles after a good, active, cycle with greens. Thanks so much for all your help. Maybe, as Mandy says, I am just pushing the increases a little too soon. Maybe someday I will understand it all, Marina.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
There is no protocol for reducing a dose temporarily. People should not be reducing a dose based on AMPS or PMPS, unless the BG test at those times is below 50 using a human meter for those following TR, or below 90 for those following SLGS. However, there are provisions in the SLGS method for shooting a one time reduced doses for those new to Lantus/Levemir. In general, a one time reduction doesn't do much to impact the following cycle. Due to the nature of the depot, the cycle plays out a lot like you had shot the full dose. So, it's not a great option.

There are times when people need to reduce the dose because they are going on vacation and a pet sitter won't test or test enough, but I don't think that's your question. There are also examples where people have cats on higher doses (or certain secondary endocrine conditions) and need to reduce an overfull depot, so do a reduced dose in order to do that. That isn't necessary for a cat on as small a dose as Susie is.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Wendy. I appreciate the information.
 
Hi Summer, just going through all your posts and all the good information you are getting. It’s a learning experience for me as well. Hope all goes well with your mom’s appointment. I hope her improvement, although small, continues and she feels better. Hope Susie behaves while you are gone and no double dipping.:stop: Take care of yourself, I hope you are feeling less stressed. Talk again soon. Sweet Susie “surf safely”. :cool::bighug:
 
Mandy & Rex said:
Do not look at the high numbers when you decide if Susie needs an increase. Look at the greens. How long had it been since she last saw greens? That's what you should be looking at. It is recommended to wait 6-10 cycles. With Susie, I think it's better to wait 10 cycles, not only 6. She had greens on 7/20 then not again until 7/25. You stuck with 2u and 2 days later, Susie asked for a reduction.

Yes, bounces can last several cycles. That's why you want to see if she has a few yellows in a row.. that usually predicts a bounce breaking cycle coming shortly. If you think an active cycle is coming, you can take action and prop up the numbers so she doesn't drop past 50 and you can hold that dose longer to encourage her body to not panic every time it sees a green. If you want regulation, then you want high greens and low blues.
Click to expand...
That is my dream, Mandy. High greens and low blues. I thought I was starting to see that on this dose. Like on 7/30. Then for two days after that she was getting so many yellows I just thought I needed to increase. I guess I am not being patient enough with the bouncing. I need to let it run its course. I'm always afraid to try and "prop up the dose" if I don't know if she is going to continue to come down or go right back up. One of these days I might get a better handle on her. Thanks for your support.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Hummmmm. So what you are saying is that after Susie has a good cycle, with good greens, I should give it at least 6 cycles to see if she comes back down again? If not, then I can consider an increase? I never knew any of this and never saw the pattern. In other words, I need to put my "patient pants" on and look more at the number of cycles after a good, active, cycle with greens. Thanks so much for all your help. Maybe, as Mandy says, I am just pushing the increases a little too soon. Maybe someday I will understand it all, Marina.
Click to expand...
You are already almost professional :bighug: with time you will start noticing all these little details as well :)
Can you please tell me in which cycle do you think Susie dived twice? I couldn’t find it, i would be curious to see it on her, otherwise i think Susie is text book like :)
 
Heather82372 said:
Patience is a very hard thing, isn't it Summer?! We want the best for our kitties NOW. ;)
Click to expand...
Hi Heather. Thank you for checking in on my girl today with all you have going on with Shooter. Yes, we want the best for our kitties NOW. It was nice to see that blue today, mid day. How is he doing? Is he eating well. I imagine he probably isn't with the stomatitis. Prayers for your boy - and for you. If you reply later this evening just know that I am usually not on the FDMB site much after 6:00 pm. It is always hard for me to stay up until 8:00 just to get Susie's +2. Are you getting any of these afternoon and evening storms? I'm grateful for the rain but I don't like the storms. Last night was another nightmare with a later evening storm. My dogs were going nuts and that doesn't help me sleep either. Talk to you soon.
 
Our Dolly Girl said:
Hi Summer, just going through all your posts and all the good information you are getting. It’s a learning experience for me as well. Hope all goes well with your mom’s appointment. I hope her improvement, although small, continues and she feels better. Hope Susie behaves while you are gone and no double dipping.:stop: Take care of yourself, I hope you are feeling less stressed. Talk again soon. Sweet Susie “surf safely”. :cool::bighug:
Click to expand...
Hi Adrienne. I agree with you. I am getting a lot of good information today. Stuff I never even knew about which should help me move forward in the future. I still like your Dolly Girl's numbers. You may not but I would just love to have those consistent blues and greens. We may never get our kitties into remission, which I know is what you want, but I will take a good, old fashioned, safe regulation for my Susie and I think you are already there. I hope you are well and less stressed. I hope your girl is coming to you for love and affection. So, so important to know that they still love and trust us no matter how many times we are pricking their ears.
 
Marina & Chico said:
You are already almost professional :bighug: with time you will start noticing all these little details as well :)
Can you please tell me in which cycle do you think Susie dived twice? I couldn’t find it, i would be curious to see it on her, otherwise i think Susie is text book like :)
Click to expand...
She has had numerous cycles in which she dropped before PMPS. Maybe these aren't double dips but I would say 7/14, 7/7, 5/15, 5/2, 4/27, 4/23 and 4/10.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Hi Heather. Thank you for checking in on my girl today with all you have going on with Shooter. Yes, we want the best for our kitties NOW. It was nice to see that blue today, mid day. How is he doing? Is he eating well. I imagine he probably isn't with the stomatitis. Prayers for your boy - and for you. If you reply later this evening just know that I am usually not on the FDMB site much after 6:00 pm. It is always hard for me to stay up until 8:00 just to get Susie's +2. Are you getting any of these afternoon and evening storms? I'm grateful for the rain but I don't like the storms. Last night was another nightmare with a later evening storm. My dogs were going nuts and that doesn't help me sleep either. Talk to you soon.
Click to expand...

Actually he is eating just fine. He has NEVER not wanted to eat. I'm feeling more and more like the vet used it as a general term for mouth inflammation instead of using it properly. Now that the vet called about his bloodwork (I'll tag you in my post) I definitely need to get him in for a dental. The idea of putting him under anesthesia is very scary to me though. Is it for you?

Yes, we're getting storms this afternoon and tonight. I love it though. I love the lighting and the big boomers. lol However, I don't have dogs. ;)
 
Summer and Susie said:
She has had numerous cycles in which she dropped before PMPS. Maybe these aren't double dips but I would say 7/14, 7/7, 5/15, 5/2, 4/27, 4/23 and 4/10.
Click to expand...
Hmm, very good examples, it took me a while to be able to formulate how these cycles are different, i am still not certain it will make sense what i will try to say :D those all are as well bounce clearing cycles, but they are a different “type”, Susie nadirs there at next preshot. Today she nadired at +3 for that reason i wouldn’t have worried about a second low. With that said i think you did the right thing: you made sure you wouldn’t have to stress about Susie’s BG when you couldn’t follow her.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top