? IBS/IBD food recommendations?

[Panic]

Hey all, my civvie Fenton is at the doctor right now and I just got off the phone with the vet. He's been having nausea and diarrhea. Bloodwork all came back good, he said that he had lost maybe 25% of his kidney function which he didn't seem concerned about, I'm assuming that's early stages of CKD? Long story short he suspects IBS or IBD (he mentioned both but mainly IBS) and recommended Hills Z/D. Obviously I'm not putting him on a prescription diet but I wanted to know what I should be switching him to. Right now he's on Dr. Pierson's recipe and the proteins I use are chicken, turkey, and pork. I don't have any reliable source of novel proteins and couldn't really afford to order it online so I'm guessing I'll have to put him on a good canned food. Can someone direct me to a good food and let me know what I should be looking for (high protein, low phos, etc). I'm assuming he needs to be given novel proteins for him to feel better?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Elizabeth I googled and found this

After their cat has been diagnosed, people usually want to know how bad it is and how the disease can be treated. The answer to both depends on the stage the disease in.

Stage 1: The creatinine level in the blood test is lower than 1.6, which means that less than 66% of kidney functions have been lost. At this stage, most vets suggest switching the cat to a more kidney-friendly prescription diet that is lower in processed protein.

Stage 2: The creatinine level is between 1.6 and 2.8, which means that 66% – 75% of kidney functions have been lost. At this stage, your vet might also recommend switching to a more kidney-friendly prescription diet if you have not already done so. He or she will probably also recommend a follow-up blood test in six months.

Stage 3: The creatinine level is between 2.9 and 5.0, which means that 76% – 90% of kidney functions have been lost. At this stage, your vet might suggest subcutaneous fluid administration to combat dehydration and ease the burden on your cat’s kidneys. You can give the fluids at home using a very simple apparatus.

Stage 4: The creatinine level is higher than 5.0, which means that 90% of kidney functions have been lost. At this stage, your cat may be suffering quite a bit, so it is important to keep your feline friend as comfortable as possible. Your cat may lose its appetite, but encouraging or helping them to eat can keep their strength up. At that point, your vet might recommend feeding them whatever they like to eat, regardless of the effect on its kidney. Your vet might also recommend increasing the frequency of the subcutaneous fluids.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Found this when I did a search in the search box
Posted by one of our members
For kitties with kidney problems



. First number is carb percentage, second is mgs of phosphorus/100 cals, all less than 10% carb and less than 250 mg phos:

Weruva Truluxe Steak Frites can 6% 118
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen La Isla Bonita can 3% 166
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Meowiss Bueller pouch 7% 174
Weruva Truluxe Glam 'N Punk can 0.6% 180
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Fowl Ball can 4% 180
Weruva Classic Pates Jeopurrdy Licious pouch 4% 187
Weruva Classic Pates Family Food pouch 0% 191
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cattyshack pouch 9% 211
BFF PLAY Tuna & Salmon Shhh... pouch 3% 223
BFF PLAY Tuna & Turkey Totes! pouch 2% 226
BFF PLAY Tuna & Chicken Chill Out pouch 2% 226
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cat to the Future pouch 8% 235
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates The Breakfast Cat pouch 9.7% 235
Weruva Classic Pates Meal of Fortune pouch 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Lamburgini can 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Double Dip can 8% 248

 

[Panic]

Thank you Diane, I am assuming he would be in Stage 1. He told me his creatinine levels were normal. I'll be looking to find a low phos food to tackle the kidney side of things.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I wouldn't know about food recommendations for IBS/IBD
Hopefully someone can help you outn

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thank you Diane, I am assuming he would be in Stage 1. He told me his creatinine levels were normal. I'll be looking to find a low phos food to tackle the kidney side of things.

That's what it looks like to me. I know this because Tyler's brother had kidney disease

 

[Panic]

Follow up: Got a chance to sit down and read some. If I understand correctly, kitties only get IBD, not IBS. There's of course the potential for it being SCL but for now we're going to treat it as if it's IBD. It looks like I should be doing an elimination diet; does this mean if I continue to use Dr. Pierson's recipe that I'll need to switch the chicken livers in the recipe to say beef? Or are we only switching out the muscle protein?

I'm not surprised at the likelihood of IBD, Fenton was constantly throwing up the 9 Lives Pate when I switched him from dry. He stopped vomiting when I switched him to Friskies and also has done excellent on the homemade diet. He does occasionally get a spoonful of the other cats' Special Kitty wet food though, so I wonder if that couldn't be a trigger to him and his current food is fine? Hmmm

 

[Panic]

Tagging @Bron and Sheba (GA) @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA) since I see you all have experience with IBD. Would really appreciate it if any of you knew if the chicken livers would need to be switched out of his diet if I tried to eliminate chicken as a protein. I'm not sure if eliminating a protein means eliminating every part of the animal or just the muscle meat etc.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Sorry, most of my experience turned out to be SCL. The one kitty with both I just removed all chicken. Don’t know if I had to. I was using EZ Complete premix with Neko and although she couldn’t have a definitive diagnosis due to her heart, it looks like it was really SCL. She was on a varied protein diet before hand, and switching proteins made no difference.

Have you been to this site yet? https://www.ibdkitties.net/

 

[Panic]

Sorry, most of my experience turned out to be SCL. The one kitty with both I just removed all chicken. Don’t know if I had to. I was using EZ Complete premix with Neko and although she couldn’t have a definitive diagnosis due to her heart, it looks like it was really SCL. She was on a varied protein diet before hand, and switching proteins made no difference.

Have you been to this site yet? https://www.ibdkitties.net/

Thanks Wendy, it must have been some older posts I was reading then. Are the symptoms really virtually the same between the two (IBD and SCL)?

Yes, I already started browsing that site.

 

[Sarah&Soph]

If you are trying an elimination diet, I would recommend eliminating all of protein, not just the muscle meat. My IBS girl is intolerant/allergic to poultry and even rolling around on a brand new duck down pillow I had just bought caused her lip to swell up (so of course I threw out a brand new pillow ).

The way my internal medicine vet explained it to me, severe IBD and SCL do have virtually the same symptoms and are usually both treated with Chlorambucil. Usually the only way to know whether it’s IBD or SCL is by doing further diagnostics like an endoscopy or biopsy.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Are the symptoms really virtually the same between the two (IBD and SCL)?

Yes, and the ultrasounds can look the same too. You really do need to have a biopsy (endoscopy or surgical) to tell the difference. You could try a food trial first, to see if there are foods that cause the symptoms. There is some small chance (as I discovered) that kitty has both. A lot of IBD cats can be managed without chlorambucil, and it's a chemo (mild) that can have it's own side effects and best avoided unless needed in severe cases of IBD. And SCL kitties can have their pred tapered off after a while, IBD cats possibly not.

There are a few canned products that are low carb and low phosphorus novel protein. Lamb and venison options, it's hard to get low P rabbit ones. Although if that is what works for kitty, you can add binder later when needed. Not sure about the Koha kangaroo P numbers.

 

[Panic]

If you are trying an elimination diet, I would recommend eliminating all of protein, not just the muscle meat.

Thanks Sarah, that's just what I was wondering. I'm feeling so divided right now on whether to put him on a trial of his regular food without access to the other cats' Special Kitty canned or if I should get a new food altogether. I'd had to upset his GI just to see if his normal food is still okay. He seems to like it so much and has been doing so well on it.

Good to know Wendy, I'll look into lamb and venison options. Hopefully it is just IBD, my animals have used up most of my savings these past couple weeks already so a biopsy's not an option anytime soon. :/

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Do check the non meat ingredients in the Special Kitty and 9 Lives. Neko was allergic to wheat, other allergens are eggs, carrageenan or gums.

 

[Sarah&Soph]

Yes one of the frustrating things about trying to do an elimination diet is that there’s sooo many things that could be causing the intestinal irritation. Sometimes it’s proteins, sometimes it’s the fillers like Wendy mentioned, sometimes it’s as simple as fish oil. If there’s something you notice in the Special Kitty that’s not in the other foods he was fine with, it might be worth just trying to eliminate that one first and see if it helps. A lot of the novel protein foods are not particularly cheap unfortunately

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Yes, i would take out the chicken liver and substitute lambs liver. that is what I have done for Clover who can’t tolerate chicken. For her I use lambs liver and lambs heart and lambs kidney.
I also give her SEB powder with her first meal of the day. Since I have eliminated all chicken and pork and given the SEB every day she has been great. Anti jinx.
I give her 1/2 egg yoke twice a week and that doesn’t seem to affect her at all.
She gets lamb, kangaroo and beef as muscle meat.

 

[Panic]

Special Kitty and 9 Lives both have carrageenan, when I switched him to Friskies Pate last year he stopped vomiting but it also has guar gum and carrageenan in it. I'm going to sit down and compare all three and try to pinpoint something. All the novel protein canned foods I've been searching for seem to have gums, fish, and/or are too high in phos. I literally haven't found a single canned food that could work (Koha, Weruva, ZiwiPeak, Nature's Variety).

@Bron and Sheba (GA) could I also sub with beef liver? I'm going to check to see if I can find lamb liver locally but in case it's not available. Is it fine if I start adding SEB powder to his meals as well?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Do you have access to beef?
I tried putting pork back into Clovers diet as I thought it was only the chicken but.had to remove it as well.
I also don’t use turkey as I read somewhere that anything with wings is no good if there is an allergy to chicken….but check up on that.
I think a home made raw diet is best if you can source and afford the appropriate muscle meats.
I find it is much cheaper than canned food as well which is a bonus.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

could I also sub with beef liver? I'm going to check to see if I can find lamb liver locally but in case it's not available. Is it fine if I start adding SEB powder to his meals as well?

Yes, beefs liver should be fine.
Yes you could add the SEB to the meals….do you mean as you make them? or you could just sprinkle some of the powder over the first meal and mix it in or the last meal of the day, away from any medications. Clover doesn’t seem to notice it or if she does she doesn’t mind it.

 

[Panic]

Do you have access to beef?

Yes, only thing being is Fenton really didn't really like it when I used it in his food. I'm very glad to hear I can use beef liver because once again I can't find any locally sourced lamb liver. Thank you for the tips, I really appreciate it. He honestly prefers the chicken to any of the other proteins I've given him so I think I'll start by trialing him on his normal food without allowing him to have any Special Kitty anymore and work from there.

do you mean as you make them? or you could just sprinkle some of the powder over the first meal and mix it in or the last meal of the day, away from any medications.

Ah yes that's what I meant, adding it fresh every day!

Guys I feel so much better about everything now, thank you so much for sharing your insights with me.

 

[Simon's human]

Simon was diagnosed with IBD about 5 years ago. His vet wound up doing a biopsy to rule out lymphoma. He had been eating ravenously but losing weight. I had been feeding him and his brother Schuster a variety of canned food with a variety of proteins so stopped the chicken and turkey and tried novel ones such as venison. He didn’t like them so eventually I did beef : Merrick Bistro Beef and another brand and also went to Natural Balance Duck dry. Vet put him on Prednisolone and unfortunately kept him on it. Eventually I reintroduced chicken and turkey canned on a very limited basis. Merrick and Instinct both have limited ingredient varieties, and the Natural Balance dry was also limited ingredient. The longtime Prednisolone eventually caused diabetes, which was diagnosed in May. Fortunately after I explored low carbs I learned most of his food was AOK except for the dry, of course. We cut back the Pred and now have eliminated it. So far so good. I have never cooked for him so I admire you for doing that. Good luck!

 

[Panic]

Does anyone know if SEB and S. Boulardii can be given at the same time? Fenton is doing pretty well but still getting occasional diarrhea. He's been getting 1/8 tsp SEB every morning (recently upped to 1/4) and I want to introduce S. Boulardii but the recommendation is 2x a day. Will SEB affect the absorption or no?