Switching from vetsulin to prozinc

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Katsallday

Katsallday

Member Since 2021
Hooray! I'm excited to make the switch but is there anything I need to know? I'm going from 1u of vetsulin to 2u of prozinc. I have a panic disorder so I just want to know everything before I panic when he inevitably takes a nap

He is 18.8 lbs and following the manufacturers dosing 2u will be the low end of the scale of 0.1 to 0.3 u per lb of weight. The vet wanted me to start at 4 but I'm just not comfortable even though they promised me it would be fine at 4u.
 
How about a test at +3 (or, if it's past then already, a test now)? The Prozinc will have started to get working around then, and that will give you some idea of what it's going to do today, well before its maximum effects.

I'm glad you didn't shoot 4U-- that would be a big starting dose, even for a big kitty. Better to start lower and work your way up (if necessary).

Just to clarify from your spreadsheet: he was on Vetsulin until this morning's shot, right? And the dose was (mostly) 1U?

Love the avatar pic-- he's a cutie!
 
If you haven't had a chance yet, here are a couple of information-packed links from our Prozinc group:

NEW TO THE GROUP: THE PROZINC BASICS. PLEASE START HERE.
PROZINC DOSING METHODS

There's tons of stuff in there, you don't have to absorb it all now, but just for your reference. One thing to note: there's a big emphasis on syringe type, because some of the other insulins used in cats use a different-sized syringe, and you don't want to get them confused. However, both Prozinc and Vetsulin use the same U-40 syringes, so you should be fine.

The main differences between Prozinc and the Vetsulin you've been using are: 'gentler' action, and (hopefully) longer duration for the Prozinc. Most people find it much easier to manage feline diabetes with Prozinc, it just seems to work better for fast kitty metabolisms. Hopefully that will be the case for Tuna, too!
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
How about a test at +3 (or, if it's past then already, a test now)? The Prozinc will have started to get working around then, and that will give you some idea of what it's going to do today, well before its maximum effects.

I'm glad you didn't shoot 4U-- that would be a big starting dose, even for a big kitty. Better to start lower and work your way up (if necessary).

Just to clarify from your spreadsheet: he was on Vetsulin until this morning's shot, right? And the dose was (mostly) 1U?

Love the avatar pic-- he's a cutie!
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oops forgot to add that in the info, he is dosed at 3am and 3pm everyday so my am dose is technically a 3pm. it was the only way to work it out with my fiance. so his most recent dose before the prozinc today was at 3am. his +3 is coming up in 10 minutes so ill def have an update soon! was planning to do a +4 and +6 minimum so ill add the +3 too! I pushed 4u of the vetsulin before i found this forum only twice. i didnt even update the spreadsheet with that info because i felt awful about it. never again will i blindly trust a vet.


tuna is a big cutie isnt he! his sister is like a cat food model tabby so everyone oohed and awed over her instead of him when they were babies so i made it my lifes work to love on him as much as everyone else loved yadel. hes now so bonded to me he suckles on my neck :cat: my big cow cat

(GOT THE +3 AT 233)
 
Look at him go! :cool:

Does he usually get snacks during the day? It's probably a good time for a small snack now-- just his usual low-carb stuff is fine. 153 is a great number we just want him to slow down into a glide from here :).
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Look at him go! :cool:

Does he usually get snacks during the day? It's probably a good time for a small snack now-- just his usual low-carb stuff is fine. 153 is a great number we just want him to slow down into a glide from here :).
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He doesn't normally get snacks because of his weight but you guys are who I trust! I'll give him a tablespoon of dm right now I'm so excited I could cry!!!
 
How's he acting? These numbers probably feel unfamiliar to him, too. Some kitties seem to immediately feel better the first time they get back down to earth from diabetic heights, others have gotten so used to diabetes the lower numbers feel 'strange.'
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
How's he acting? These numbers probably feel unfamiliar to him, too. Some kitties seem to immediately feel better the first time they get back down to earth from diabetic heights, others have gotten so used to diabetes the lower numbers feel 'strange.'
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He's fine! I caught the diabetes early because of routine blood work luckily last year his numbers were fine and this year they weren't he didn't go into DKA or anything. We are outside right now getting him some fresh air He's a little bit less playful than normal but he is alert and at least willing to look at his toy lol! He even jumped up on the side of the chicken coop!

What I can't believe is that his number went down this low with two units and the vet wanted him on four and told me that it was stupid to trust an internet forum. You all have saved tuna from hypo twice in one week. How can I give back to this amazing community?
 
Yup, you were very smart not to shoot 4U today! I'm even wondering about the 2U, but so far he's doing great!

Tagging @Deb & Wink for some insights into Prozinc dosing. Usually, we reduce only when BG drops under 90, but since he's just starting out, I'm wondering if it will make sense to re-assess this starting dose?
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Yup, you were very smart not to shoot 4U today! I'm even wondering about the 2U, but so far he's doing great!

Tagging @Deb & Wink for some insights into Prozinc dosing. Usually, we reduce only when BG drops under 90, but since he's just starting out, I'm wondering if it will make sense to re-assess this starting dose?
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I'd be happy to drop to one if his BG gets questionable! My fiance is seeing the sense in listening to you guys! He finally saw a good number and now is a fan! Shall I do hourly BG just in case its dropping too fast? Just a reminder, my first vet wanted 4u of vetsulin, and this current vet called that one a quack and put him on 4u of prozinc :facepalm:
 
Still a very safe number-- and another first today :D!

Two different cutoffs to keep in mind from here: below 50, it's "take action" time, where we start giving him carbs to try to bring him back up quickly. We're nowhere near that point now, but it's not a bad idea to make sure you have your supplies (a high-carb gravy food if you have it, honey/karo syrup for a quick boost) in place. It's no fun to get a surprise low and have to start running around trying to find the honey (been there... :rolleyes: ).

The other cutoff is the "reduce dose" number, which for him right now would be 90. He is getting close to that number :), so even though we're getting close to nadir time at this point, I think there's a good chance he'll hit this and earn his first reduction today. But let's wait and see what else he's got in store ;).
 
Nan is right. Tuna is likely to earn his first dose reduction today.

A green BG number isn't a hypo, but it does say "heads up, watch closely", especially when you are just starting out.
Would not hurt to get a +6. Highly recommend that +6 in fact.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Nan is right. Tuna is likely to earn his first dose reduction today.

A green BG number isn't a hypo, but it does say "heads up, watch closely", especially when you are just starting out.
Would not hurt to get a +6. Highly recommend that +6 in fact.
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I was going to hourly monitor for sure, I have 30min until +6 and he's nibbling on his low carb food right now. I have him away from the other cats on my back patio watching him like a HAWK. I'm beyond words how disappointed I am with the vet system right now.
 
Over the years, we've seen lots of otherwise good vets face-plant when it comes to feline diabetes. What it comes down to, usually, is that they simply don't get a lot of training in vet school on diabetes in general (half a day, I think I've heard!), and then they're far more likely to see diabetic dogs in their practice than cats. [that might go a long way towards explaining why your vet has "never seen a hypo cat", come to think of it!].

Anyway, the point is, it's a general problem, unfortunately not specific to the couple vets you've seen. It's good that the current one was willing to prescribe Prozinc; the most important thing is that you find a vet that is willing to work with you on Tuna's treatment.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Over the years, we've seen lots of otherwise good vets face-plant when it comes to feline diabetes. What it comes down to, usually, is that they simply don't get a lot of training in vet school on diabetes in general (half a day, I think I've heard!), and then they're far more likely to see diabetic dogs in their practice than cats. [that might go a long way towards explaining why your vet has "never seen a hypo cat", come to think of it!].

Anyway, the point is, it's a general problem, unfortunately not specific to the couple vets you've seen. It's good that the current one was willing to prescribe Prozinc; the most important thing is that you find a vet that is willing to work with you on Tuna's treatment.
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His+5.5 is 92 since we're not at nadir yet I grabbed some of my other cats normal dry food. I've fed him 6 pieces so far.
 
Well, he got to 92 before the dry (not that those numbers are very different, lol!).

We normally change in 0.25U increments and technically he hasn't (yet) earned that, but I'd support a re-set down to 1.0U or possibly 1.5U. My reasoning:

2.0U is high for a starting dose, particularly for a cat who is already on low-carb wet food. It got him into very good, safe numbers today, but it's kind of jumping into the deep end to get to these numbers right out of the gate. You were able to monitor him closely all day today, but it's hard to do that every cycle (gotta sleep sometime!). Dropping the dose down a bit should give you some breathing room to get used to Prozinc, get to know where Tuna's nadir is on this insulin, etc.
 
Katsallday said:
His +7 is 85 :/
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And that's why I was cautious when I said he technically hadn't earned a reduction-- there it is!

Still a lovely, safe number, and we're now in the second half of the cycle so he should start coming up soon, but I'd keep monitoring until he actually does, to be sure. No need for more carbs right now-- the dry has a lot of staying power, it'll keep helping boost him up for a while.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
And that's why I was cautious when I said he technically hadn't earned a reduction-- there it is!

Still a lovely, safe number, and we're now in the second half of the cycle so he should start coming up soon, but I'd keep monitoring until he actually does, to be sure. No need for more carbs right now-- the dry has a lot of staying power, it'll keep helping boost him up for a while.
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My second vet told me to push the 4u and not monitor his BG. Im still in shock. I'm going to scream at the vet tomorrow. If I worked and couldn't monitor him I can't imagine how low he would have got. I'm so thankful to you and everyone here. I knew I was right to trust yall. Thank you so much, this cat, not to be rude to my other cats, is my life. He is my everything.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Tuna is looking fabulous and looks like he loves Prozinc! Nan is doing a great job looking after you and Tuna
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Nan has been wonderful! I would love to find a way to help the forum in return for all you do here! I know a programmer that can help some of the technical aspects here like the image upload issue! He would do it for free if anyone knows how to speak with the owner?
 
Katsallday said:
Nan has been wonderful! I would love to find a way to help the forum in return for all you do here! I know a programmer that can help some of the technical aspects here like the image upload issue! He would do it for free if anyone knows how to speak with the owner?
Click to expand...
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
And that's why I was cautious when I said he technically hadn't earned a reduction-- there it is!

Still a lovely, safe number, and we're now in the second half of the cycle so he should start coming up soon, but I'd keep monitoring until he actually does, to be sure. No need for more carbs right now-- the dry has a lot of staying power, it'll keep helping boost him up for a while.
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He's at 119 now woo!
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Yay, Tuna! Looks like he's on the way up now.

It's getting close to my bedtime here... Bron, are you going to be around for a while? I think Tuna's done with dramatics now, but just in case...
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Thank you SO MUCH. I have a panic disorder and health anxiety, you kept me level headed to get through my first green zone. Yes I will likely have a good panic tonight, but it will be after the real threat thanks to you!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Tuna is looking fabulous and looks like he loves Prozinc! Nan is doing a great job looking after you and Tuna
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I'm still so new at this, I want to reduce to 1u because it's easier on my u40 syringes and I really don't want to mess up the dose amount. Is 1u a good reduction choice or should I try for 1.5?
 
Katsallday said:
I'm still so new at this, I want to reduce to 1u because it's easier on my u40 syringes and I really don't want to mess up the dose amount. Is 1u a good reduction choice or should I try for 1.5?
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Hi They do make U-40 syringes with half unit markings, it will make it easier for you when either decreasing or increasing
I am going to tag
@Deb & Wink so she can take a look at your SS tomorrow and give you advice on his dose.
He's so adorable
You did a great job staying calm :bighug::cat:
Do you have syringes with half unit markings

30-unit-insulin-syringe-markings.jpg



@Katsallday
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi They do make U-40 syringes with half unit markings, it will make it easier for you when either decreasing or increasing
I am going to tag
@Deb & Wink so she can take a look at your SS tomorrow and give you advice on his dose.
He's so adorable
You did a great job staying calm :bighug::cat:
Do you have syringes with half unit markings

30-unit-insulin-syringe-markings.jpg



@Katsallday
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Do you think I could get them at a vet office or Amazon? I'm an instant gratification kinda gal! And thank you! You didn't see the pacing I did luckily so I think I look cooler on the forums :cool:
 
I see Tuna eats wet DM, isn't that expensive?
Most if us feed Fancy Feast Classic Pate, they are 2 or 3 % carbs
It's fine if you want to stay with the DM, just trying to save you some money:cat:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

Here is the food chart.
It's also a good idea having some med and high carb food in the house instead of feeding him dry when he drops low
For your hypo kit you can get the following and also look at the food chart


med and high carb food on hand in case he drops too low and you need to bring his BG up to safe numbers

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs




Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
Katsallday said:
Do you think I could get them at a vet office or Amazon? I'm an instant gratification kinda gal! And thank you! You didn't see the pacing I did luckily so I think I look cooler on the forums :cool:
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Most vets don't have them, you can probably get them on Amazon, my cat is in remission right now, but I would get the from ADW Diabetes
I will give you the link, just give me a minute
 
Katsallday said:
I'm still so new at this, I want to reduce to 1u because it's easier on my u40 syringes and I really don't want to mess up the dose amount. Is 1u a good reduction choice or should I try for 1.5?
Click to expand...
I think 1.5 units would be a better dose but see what @Deb & Wink says.
I’m going to tag @Chris & China (GA) as she may know where to buy the half unit u40 syringes.
I see @Diane Tyler's Mom is also helping you with the syringes
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Most vets don't have them, you can probably get them on Amazon, my cat is in remission right now, but I would get the from ADW Diabetes
I will give you the link, just give me a minute
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I think 1.5 units would be a better dose but see what @Deb & Wink says.
I’m going to tag @Chris & China (GA) as she may know where to buy the half unit u40 syringes.
I see @Diane Tyler's Mom is also helping you with the syringes
Click to expand...

Tunas +11 was 168... I'm not sure what to do if it's this low for his pmps in 30min
 
Your SS is saying +10 is 168. Is +11 the same.?
You can wait until about 10 minutes before +12 and then take the PMPS and if it is under 200 STALL DONT FEED AND TEST AGAIN IN 20 minutes.

Can you put a line in the SS between the vetsulin and the Prozinc numbers please?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Your SS is saying +10 is 168. Is +11 the same.?
You can wait until about 10 minutes before +12 and then take the PMPS and if it is under 200 STALL DONT FEED AND TEST AGAIN IN 20 minutes.

Can you put a line in the SS between the vetsulin and the Prozinc numbers please?
Click to expand...

I missed 3 o'clock and I'm panicking so idk what I did wrong in the SS but I just took that 168 read 50 minutes ago
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Your SS is saying +10 is 168. Is +11 the same.?
You can wait until about 10 minutes before +12 and then take the PMPS and if it is under 200 STALL DONT FEED AND TEST AGAIN IN 20 minutes.

Can you put a line in the SS between the vetsulin and the Prozinc numbers please?
Click to expand...
I don't know how to put a line just yet, the thick row except is all prozinc except that first pink
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
No problem, I'm trying to think of who else I can tag
@Wendy&Neko
Wendy I remember you saying you were not a Prozinc user, just took a chance since no Prozinc
users are around to give her advice
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Your SS is saying +10 is 168. Is +11 the same.?
You can wait until about 10 minutes before +12 and then take the PMPS and if it is under 200 STALL DONT FEED AND TEST AGAIN IN 20 minutes.

Can you put a line in the SS between the vetsulin and the Prozinc numbers please?
Click to expand...
HE READ AT 207 phew, should i push a full 1u? ive never had a PS this low :")
 
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