Hello - Gizmo and I are new to the forum

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WYMoreta

WYMoreta

Member Since 2020
Hi,

My 10 year old cat Gizmo was recently diagnosed with diabetes. She had lost 3 lbs in 6 months. She's still a chunk at 15 pounds. Our vet was able to diagnose diabetes, but didn't recommend we get our own monitor, or even do a test where he monitored the BG for an entire day. We are trying to find the right meter for her, the right food, and the right dosage. I have purchased both an alphatracks 2 and a relion meter. The cost of the test strips are somewhat daunting given how many times I will have to test her. Is the relion okay to use?

We are also trying to figure out how to feed her and not let her get into our other cat's foods (we have a total of 5 cats and a dog). Some of our cats are grazers, and Gizmo gets into their food.

I am looking for recommendations of types of meters, foods, how to figure out the right dose, and advice on how to feed everyone!

Thanks in advance for your help. This looks like an amazing site!

WYMoreta

P.S. - If your curious about my username it's a combination of the state I was born in - Wyoming, and my all time favorite character - Moreta - Dragonlady of Pern by Anne McCaffrey
 
Hi! this is an amazing site. Welcome to you and Gizmo.:) Sorry you have to be here but you're going to get lots of help. The preference on the board is to use a human meter, so yes the Relion is perfect. I'm so glad you did not listen to your vet. Home testing is the only way to keep Gizmo safe. It isn't safe to shoot insulin without checking the blood glucose number first.

Here is a link to some hometesting tips and tricks.
Most of us test using the cat's ear. You want to poke around the outside edge of the ear, trying to stay away from the vein (or it will get...um...messy). I always test Butters on the same spot on the couch. I give her a treat, sing a song (to calm me and her!), and poke her. Then I either touch the strip while it is in the meter onto her ear, or if I think she's going to make a run for it, I scoop up the blood drop with my fingernail and test from there. She now comes running to her testing spot when she hears me open the test strip vial, because she knows she will be getting a treat. Treats I give are freeze dried chicken, so pure meat only (or some cooked meat that I cube and freeze for her). No temptations or anything...too high in carbs for a diabetic.
Here is one picture to help guide you with testing:
upload_2020-12-9_8-8-28.png


If you look at our signatures, you'll see we have links to our cats' spreadsheets. Here are the instructions for setting one up for Gizmo: spreadsheet instructions. This is where we record the blood glucose readings, and there is a comments section where you can make notes on what foods you fed, how much, at what times etc. If you need help setting up the spreadsheet, just ask. Add a link to it in your signature. And way to go, already getting a signature set up!

What are you feeding Gizmo right now?
Food can influence numbers. Ultimately you want to be feeding Gizmo a low carb wet food. Fancy Feast has many low carb options. However, do not start switching foods without guidance from people here. Here is a link to a food chart with some options. You want to stick to the low carb foods, which is 10% or less carb, but lower is better.

What dose of insulin did the vet put Gizmo on?

I think I've inundated you with enough info. Others will be along sometime today! Board isn't super active this time of day.
 

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Butters & Lyla said:
Hi! this is an amazing site. Welcome to you and Gizmo.:) Sorry you have to be here but you're going to get lots of help. The preference on the board is to use a human meter, so yes the Relion is perfect. I'm so glad you did not listen to your vet. Home testing is the only way to keep Gizmo safe. It isn't safe to shoot insulin without checking the blood glucose number first.

Here is a link to some hometesting tips and tricks.
Most of us test using the cat's ear. You want to poke around the outside edge of the ear, trying to stay away from the vein (or it will get...um...messy). I always test Butters on the same spot on the couch. I give her a treat, sing a song (to calm me and her!), and poke her. Then I either touch the strip while it is in the meter onto her ear, or if I think she's going to make a run for it, I scoop up the blood drop with my fingernail and test from there. She now comes running to her testing spot when she hears me open the test strip vial, because she knows she will be getting a treat. Treats I give are freeze dried chicken, so pure meat only (or some cooked meat that I cube and freeze for her). No temptations or anything...too high in carbs for a diabetic.
Here is one picture to help guide you with testing:
View attachment 58504

If you look at our signatures, you'll see we have links to our cats' spreadsheets. Here are the instructions for setting one up for Gizmo: spreadsheet instructions. This is where we record the blood glucose readings, and there is a comments section where you can make notes on what foods you fed, how much, at what times etc. If you need help setting up the spreadsheet, just ask. Add a link to it in your signature. And way to go, already getting a signature set up!

What are you feeding Gizmo right now?
Food can influence numbers. Ultimately you want to be feeding Gizmo a low carb wet food. Fancy Feast has many low carb options. However, do not start switching foods without guidance from people here. Here is a link to a food chart with some options. You want to stick to the low carb foods, which is 10% or less carb, but lower is better.

What dose of insulin did the vet put Gizmo on?

I think I've inundated you with enough info. Others will be along sometime today! Board isn't super active this time of day.
Click to expand...


Thanks for all the info. I am feeding her hills science diet M/D wet cat food. And her insulin is prozinc. That should be in my signature. It appears for me, so if it doesn't appear for you, I've messed something up. I will create the spreadsheet once I decide which meter I will be using. I am so grateful I found this forum.
 
JanetNJ said:
Welcome! You've come to the right place! I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home. I use an Alphatrak, but most on here use human meters, so the relion is fine.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info. I watched your video. I am gettng better at the testing.
 
Using relion 372, alphatrak 471. This is a measurement taken 2 hours after feeding and 2 units of insulin. Using the alphatraks the numbers have been ranging between 450-540 for the +2hr reading. A fasting test done last week had it at 92. Will probably be switching to relion exclusively if we're going to be testing often.
 
Hmmmm.... This:

WYMoreta said:
A fasting test done last week had it at 92.
Click to expand...

worries me, along with the 2U of insulin. 92 is a normal BG (particularly for an AT), and 2U is a fairly large starting dose of Prozinc.

When you say "fasting", had she had any insulin that day, and if so, how many hours before the 92?
 
Just trying to clarify the situation. Assuming that the 92 was at or near shot time, let's talk a bit about what might be going on now with the (much) higher numbers you're seeing today.

When a cat's BG goes lower-than-usual or drops rapidly, there's a common reaction we call a "bounce". It's basically the cat's body freaking out and dumping stored sugars into the bloodstream in order to raise BG and keep itself safe from hypoglycemia. For a newly-diagnosed diabetic the lows that can trigger a bounce often aren't even that low, they can be normal or even diabetic numbers, it just feels low to the cat who has been running much higher than that for a while. The really tricky part? Bounces can last a long time, up to three days after just a brief "low" period.

If Gizmo hit 92 at least once in the past couple weeks, and has been getting a fairly high insulin dose during that time, I think it's really likely that she's done it more than once, and you might be in a repeated pattern of low-then-bounce, with most of the time in the bounce part. This is why it's tough to adjust dosage with occasional BG checks at the vet, you're only seeing a small part of the story. It's fantastic that you're home-testing, because that's pretty much the only way to figure all this stuff out and get Gizmo to the right dose!

The other factor to consider is the fasting part of it. It's likely that the food Gizmo is used to grazing on has been keeping her BG up, and when she fasts it drops down more than it would otherwise. By the way, there's no reason to have to fast her for 12hrs (sometimes vets say that), we find that most diabetic cats do better with multiple small meals during the day.

Diet is a really tricky, but critical, piece of the puzzle here. It's even harder to manage with other animals, but hopefully we can figure out an approach that will work for everyone.

OK, that's a lot of info there. Let us know if you have questions!

[edited because Gizmo is a girl!]
 
@Nan & Amber (GA)

I have added my spreadsheet, and it should be linked to my signature now (if it's not, let me know, and I'll figure out what I messed up).

Yes, we did dose her at 92, but we did cut the dose in half from what it was before because we were worried about the numbers (and it was a Saturday when I couldn't talk to my vet).

I do have a few questions:

Under dosing method, I see SLGS and TR, but have no understanding of what that means, so I have left it as ??? for now.

I understand what AMPS and PMPS mean. AMPS = AM(morning) preshot, and PMPS=PM (afternoon) pre-shot, but is that pre or post food? My vet told me to give her the shot 15 minutes after she started eating, so the AMPS could be pre or post feeding.

I would love to be able to let Gizmo eat small meals, but since I have 5 cats and everyone likes to eat each other's food I don't really have that option. I have looked at the microchip feeder (https://www.chewy.com/surefeed-micr...Hpj2GTubKHgly1OAs-gwKYEf0U6pHoqxoCC4MQAvD_BwE), but at $150 per pet, its a little bit over my budget unless it's a guaranteed success.

Thanks everyone for helping out. It's been great to find this forum. I would say that Gizmo and I both thank you, but you all are cat caregivers, and you know that cat's rarely if ever deign to say thank you. :)
 
Hi WYMoreta! Welcome to the forum, and you're in the best hands! I'm chiming in here because I have the microchip feeder and it's absolutely worth the money. I have a civvie (civilian cat who is not diabetic) and my sugar cat Ruby, and I have one feeder for each so that Ruby can't get into Olive's food and vice versa. I've got Olive on combo dry and wet food while Ruby is only allowed wet. The feeder allows me to strictly control Ruby's portions, so I know what she is eating and how much all the time. You will likely have to separate Gizmo from your other cats when you feed them so he can't get into their food, but if you get a feeder for him you won't have to worry about them getting into his. Once you start getting Gizmo into healing numbers (below 100 but above 50 on the human meter), you'll want to control his food intake so that you can steer her numbers using low carb, medium carb, or high carb foods. This will be made easier with a feeder only he can get into.

I'd also like to suggest that you get Gizmo off the prescription food because it's super expensive and it has very high carbs. You can return it to the vet or pet store for a refund, it's manufacturer guaranteed. I transitioned Ruby from prescription Purina DM canned onto Fancy Feast pates and she loved it for a while. She decided a week ago that she doesn't like the Fancy Feast anymore so now I've got her on Weruva cans and pouches, which is high quality food containing real ingredients (no by-products or carrageenans that might irritate her stomach). You're aiming to feed him foods that are 10% carbs or lower. Please see the food list here for other possibilities.
 
Ah, I can see your spreadsheet-- great job getting that up and running!

WYMoreta said:
I do have a few questions:

Under dosing method, I see SLGS and TR, but have no understanding of what that means, so I have left it as ??? for now.

I understand what AMPS and PMPS mean. AMPS = AM(morning) preshot, and PMPS=PM (afternoon) pre-shot, but is that pre or post food? My vet told me to give her the shot 15 minutes after she started eating, so the AMPS could be pre or post feeding.
[/USER]
Click to expand...

SLGS/TR: we use a few dosing methods on this site. For Prozinc, the "modified prozinc method" is roughly comparable to TR ("tight regulation," used on the Lantus forum).

PROZINC DOSING METHODS

Feeding time: the usual sequence is test, feed, shoot. The testing is done pre-feeding, because you're checking if it's safe to shoot, and you don't want to be misled by a food bump.

Your vet is probably more used to Vetsulin or other fast-acting insulins. For those, you really do need to have a meal (or most of a meal) "on board" before giving insulin. Prozinc, which usually takes a couple of hours to start affecting BG is a bit more forgiving, you basically just have to be confident that your cat will eat a meal, she doesn't have to have actually eaten it before shooting.
 
welcome to you and Gizmo.. I am pretty new myself (3 weeks here) and was overwhelmed by it all and like you my Vet just told me here is Insulin give cat shot ever 12 hrs .. after him being hospitalized for Ketoacidosis and severe dehydration after being diagnosed with Asthma on a wends then they gave him a steroid shot then that Friday I took him back in being he was throwing up. .he had lost about 5lbs in 3 months but prior to that my vet had me put him on a diet so I thought it was due to that...and they tell me he has Diabetes and is in toxic shock and might die... so he was hospitalized for 5 days..then send me home and tell me to give him 3 units per 12 hrs no testing nadda.. well I had done my research and had found this board.. and that I needed to check his BG pretty much quite often and especially prior to giving insulin.. also I have the Relion premier meter which has worked fine for me and was suggest by members on here and the strips are not super expensive.. My vet told me to give my cat 3 units a day blind... IF I had went by that my cat would not have lasted 2 or 3 days I was helped by the very knowledgeable members here who helped me work to a correct dose and now hes near remission( fingers crossed) after being diagnosed 3 weeks ago but with all the help of the people here and getting the dose correct AND DIET... DO NOT GIVE GIZMO the presc Hills food its High in Carbs(its just a way for vets to make money).. they need a Low carb high Protein diet.. and oddly its some of the cheapest food out there Fancy Feast or Friskies classic (not in gravy pates work best) you will want to read this site https://catinfo.org/ there is a chart there with lists of foods in a pdf that you can look and see the Carb/protein of each brand.. you want as high a protein and as low a carb (preferred under 10 or less) by me taking Vengeance my cat off the high carb foods his #'s dropped very quickly and as of now hes only had 2 shots in the past week.. like humans this can be controlled with some cats by diet alone and ( my cat might be a lucky one) prior to the help from here venge came close going hypo a few times due to the BOUNCE thou he is on a diff Insulin( yup they make diff ones and all have own numbers issues etc) if I had left him on the dose the vet told me to just stick and go.......:(.... I have 2 cats indoors Vengeance is one of my inside cats and has the D (and 4 outdoors) and for right now they are sequestered mostly especially during feeding times.. I had to change them from free grazing to set meal times... and have taken them both off any dry food and only giving the wet...

AMPS and PMPS are the Blood glucose levels taken BEFORE you give them insulin at 12hrs intervals given at the same time everyday, you dont go in blind being if they are in a safe level you might not need to give them a dose or need to adjust the dose due to the #s ( 50-120 is the normal BG for a cat with a Relion human meter)

info on SLGLS TR https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...help-what-is-dosing-method-slgs-or-tr.224709/

I was confused by it all and what little knowledge I have gained in the past few weeks glad to help out if I can.. sadly vets dont really give you info.. my vet told me to come back in a month and they would then do an Insulin curve to find the right dosage.. I did it with the help of the board week ago and got his dose down then hes now not needing any insulin ( results very hugely by cat I am SUPER SUPER LUCKY things are going so well) that the change in his diet was enough... so listen to the knowledgeable people on here they are awesome and I can not begin to show my gratitude to the ones who have listened and answered my 1000 stupid questions..

@Critter Mom @JanetNJ

Lee and Vengeance sending positive kitty and human vibes
 
Hey All,

My cat just has a normal reading (97 using relion) before eating... should I give her insulin or not tonight?
 
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JanetNJ said:
No! You can stall for an hour without feeding and see if it goes up, but too low for a shot.
Click to expand...

@JanetN,

I decided to wait and test her after an hour. (yay, I chose wisely thanks to my Jedi master's here on this forum). She's at 151 an hour after eating with no insulin.... At what number should I give her insulin? My thought is to not give her insulin at all this evening, and check tomorrow before breakfast.
 
WYMoreta said:
@JanetN,

I decided to wait and test her after an hour. (yay, I chose wisely thanks to my Jedi master's here on this forum). She's at 151 an hour after eating with no insulin.... At what number should I give her insulin? My thought is to not give her insulin at all this evening, and check tomorrow before breakfast.
Click to expand...
You could skip. I might give a bit... Like 0.5 Can you try to get mid cycle tests? You'll want to know how low she goes.
 
Which meter are these readings from? If the AT2, I don't know that I'd give insulin tonight. I like the plan of waiting until tomorrow and seeing how she does...
 
So the relion had high numbers this morning (398), so I gave her 1 unit of insulin. I will check her numbers a couple of hours after eating. If you've got a page/post/etc that gives advice on how to figure out the right dosage, I'd be glad to read it.
Thanks everyone.

Oh, I found the dosing guide in the ISP for Prozinc. Yay! I knew it had to be here somewhere, I just hadn't had a chance to find it. I feel like learning about how to treat Gizmo is a full time job, and that I already have a full time job. Thanks for being patient with me as I ask to find stuff that's already available.
 
Last edited:
WYMoreta said:
So the relion had high numbers this morning (398), so I gave her 1 unit of insulin. I will check her numbers a couple of hours after eating. If you've got a page/post/etc that gives advice on how to figure out the right dosage, I'd be glad to read it.
Thanks everyone.

Oh, I found the dosing guide in the ISP for Prozinc. Yay! I knew it had to be here somewhere, I just hadn't had a chance to find it. I feel like learning about how to treat Gizmo is a full time job, and that I already have a full time job. Thanks for being patient with me as I ask to find stuff that's already available.
Click to expand...
You are doing great. It will soon all be routine.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Hi WYMoreta! Welcome to the forum, and you're in the best hands! I'm chiming in here because I have the microchip feeder and it's absolutely worth the money. I have a civvie (civilian cat who is not diabetic) and my sugar cat Ruby, and I have one feeder for each so that Ruby can't get into Olive's food and vice versa. I've got Olive on combo dry and wet food while Ruby is only allowed wet. The feeder allows me to strictly control Ruby's portions, so I know what she is eating and how much all the time. You will likely have to separate Gizmo from your other cats when you feed them so he can't get into their food, but if you get a feeder for him you won't have to worry about them getting into his. Once you start getting Gizmo into healing numbers (below 100 but above 50 on the human meter), you'll want to control his food intake so that you can steer her numbers using low carb, medium carb, or high carb foods. This will be made easier with a feeder only he can get into.

I'd also like to suggest that you get Gizmo off the prescription food because it's super expensive and it has very high carbs. You can return it to the vet or pet store for a refund, it's manufacturer guaranteed. I transitioned Ruby from prescription Purina DM canned onto Fancy Feast pates and she loved it for a while. She decided a week ago that she doesn't like the Fancy Feast anymore so now I've got her on Weruva cans and pouches, which is high quality food containing real ingredients (no by-products or carrageenans that might irritate her stomach). You're aiming to feed him foods that are 10% carbs or lower. Please see the food list here for other possibilities.
Click to expand...


@PerfumedCatMom -
Is this the specific microchip feeder (https://www.chewy.com/surefeed-micr...Hpj2GTubKHgly1OAs-gwKYEf0U6pHoqxoCC4MQAvD_BwE) you have, or do you have another brand name? I'd hate to get a different one that doesn't work as well as the one you use. I am seriously thinking of getting 5 feeders because I can't seem to convince my civilian cats to eat at the same time, and my heart breaks when they cry for more food (yep, I'm a pushover when it comes to my cats).
 
WYMoreta said:
@PerfumedCatMom -
Is this the specific microchip feeder (https://www.chewy.com/surefeed-micr...Hpj2GTubKHgly1OAs-gwKYEf0U6pHoqxoCC4MQAvD_BwE) you have, or do you have another brand name? I'd hate to get a different one that doesn't work as well as the one you use. I am seriously thinking of getting 5 feeders because I can't seem to convince my civilian cats to eat at the same time, and my heart breaks when they cry for more food (yep, I'm a pushover when it comes to my cats).
Click to expand...
What me? I never spoil my cats! :p
Yes this is the one, but buy it from the manufacturer's website as their customer service is excellent and you should buy the batteries from their site to ship with them so you can set everything up in one go. I think you've made a great decision. The only drawback to this is there is no timer on this feeder but once you get the cats trained on how to use it (it took a few painful days, I will admit, but watch this cute video) you will feel a huge burden lifted off your shoulders! Please keep me posted on your progress, and good luck!
 
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