New member with Oliver

Adriana Di Prospero

Adriana Di Prospero

Member Since 2019
I have been trying to follow the guidelines in this forum to try and regulate my sugar cat Oliver. I started keeping track of his numbers when I switched him from Friskies wet and DM dry to Friskies/FF wet and a 50/50 blend of Young Again Zero Mature dry. He is now on Tiki Cat zero carb/FF wet and a 50/50 blend of Young Again and Dr. Esley's CleanProtien Salmon. He is a long term diabetic 10+ years. He is on Prozinc and, with the help of the new low carb dry food have been able to reduce his units from 6U 2 x a day to 4U 2 x a day. I now need help with his dosing. I've attached his spreadsheet. I work during the week and am only able to do close monitoring on the weekends. Recently he has had three episodes of very low numbers followed by spikes. Is someone able to review my numbers and give advise. He can be very grumpy about year pricks. I can usually do 3 per 12 hour period.
 

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@Adriana Di Prospero if you are using the Alpha Trak like your excel spreadsheet indicates, 28 & 32 in different cycles are dangerously low numbers.

Please create your own new thread so we can help you help Oliver. If you need help creating your own thread, please let us know.

Tagging
@Marje and Gracie
@Deb & Wink
@JanetNJ
so more are aware of your post and my recommendation.
(ETA and that this post/my post is not a "bump" post)
 
Last edited:
You've had some really scary low numbers. I think you need to drastically reduce your insulin. I would go down to 2 units 32 is like scary low numbers. You're lucky she didn't have seizures!
 
Shelley & Jess said:
Thanks @Wendy&Neko Thanks @JanetNJ
I'm really worried about those low numbers.

@Adriana Di Prospero
When you get a chance, can you set up your signature and an FDMB version of your spreadsheet please. Many members can't access your excel version.
The link to set up the FDMB spreadsheet and instructions how to create your signature can be found here:
HOW YOU CAN HELP US HELP YOU!
If you need any help, please let us know.
Click to expand...
How do I set up a signature and do a FDMB version of the spreadheet.
Shelley & Jess said:
@Adriana Di Prospero if you are using the Alpha Trak like your excel spreadsheet indicates, 28 & 32 in different cycles are dangerously low numbers.

Please create your own new thread so we can help you help Oliver. If you need help creating your own thread, please let us know.

Tagging
@Marje and Gracie
@Deb & Wink
@JanetNJ
so more are aware of your post and my recommendation.
(ETA and that this post/my post is not a "bump" post)
Click to expand...
Shelley & Jess said:
Thanks @Wendy&Neko Thanks @JanetNJ
I'm really worried about those low numbers.

@Adriana Di Prospero
When you get a chance, can you set up your signature and an FDMB version of your spreadsheet please. Many members can't access your excel version.
The link to set up the FDMB spreadsheet and instructions how to create your signature can be found here:
HOW YOU CAN HELP US HELP YOU!
If you need any help, please let us know.
Click to expand...
Thank you for creating a Thread for me

Shelley & Jess said:
Thanks @Wendy&Neko Thanks @JanetNJ
I'm really worried about those low numbers.

@Adriana Di Prospero
When you get a chance, can you set up your signature and an FDMB version of your spreadsheet please. Many members can't access your excel version.
The link to set up the FDMB spreadsheet and instructions how to create your signature can be found here:
HOW YOU CAN HELP US HELP YOU!
If you need any help, please let us know.
Click to expand...
Wendy&Neko said:
New thread created for Adriana and Oliver.
Click to expand...
Adriana Di Prospero said:
I have been trying to follow the guidelines in this forum to try and regulate my sugar cat Oliver. I started keeping track of his numbers when I switched him from Friskies wet and DM dry to Friskies/FF wet and a 50/50 blend of Young Again Zero Mature dry. He is now on Tiki Cat zero carb/FF wet and a 50/50 blend of Young Again and Dr. Esley's CleanProtien Salmon. He is a long term diabetic 10+ years. He is on Prozinc and, with the help of the new low carb dry food have been able to reduce his units from 6U 2 x a day to 4U 2 x a day. I now need help with his dosing. I've attached his spreadsheet. I work during the week and am only able to do close monitoring on the weekends. Recently he has had three episodes of very low numbers followed by spikes. Is someone able to review my numbers and give advise. He can be very grumpy about year pricks. I can usually do 3 per 12 hour period.
Click to expand...


Oliver's numbers began rising after a stick of squeeze up and 1 tbsp of HC food. The PMPS reading was 477. I did a reduced shot of 3.5U. at +2 the BG was 350. This morning his AMPS # was 357 again shot 3.5U. I had to leave for work so will not be able to take another # until 5PM. But this has been a recent pattern with him. I began to reduce his dose from 6U 2 x day to 3.5U 2 x a day in November.
 
Create your signature:

When you're signed in, click on your user name top right corner (beside Inbox & Alerts).
A drop down menu may appear, if it does Click on Signature.
Or, if when you click on your user name the click takes you to your personal details page, on the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
(the click works differently for me if I'm on my phone or using my desktop)

This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. (You can check out any of our signatures, the grey writing at the bottom of our posts to get an idea of what kind of information we include)
    • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    • Add any other text, such as
    • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Set up the FDMB Spreadsheet:
Click on the blue link inserted below. It will take you to the spreadsheet instructions and template(s) download page. If you have any difficulties, please let me know, we have members that are more than happy to set it up for you.
FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS
 
p.s. I reported the post in the New 2021 spreadsheet thread and asked one of the moderators to split out Andriana's post to it's own thread.
Thanks to Wendy&Neko for doing that.
 
Shelley & Jess said:
Create your signature:

When you're signed in, click on your user name top right corner (beside Inbox & Alerts).
A drop down menu may appear, if it does Click on Signature.
Or, if when you click on your user name the click takes you to your personal details page, on the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
(the click works differently for me if I'm on my phone or using my desktop)

This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. (You can check out any of our signatures, the grey writing at the bottom of our posts to get an idea of what kind of information we include)
    • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    • Add any other text, such as
    • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Set up the FDMB Spreadsheet:
Click on the blue link inserted below. It will take you to the spreadsheet instructions and template(s) download page. If you have any difficulties, please let me know, we have members that are more than happy to set it up for you.
FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS
Click to expand...

I was finally able to copy the spreadsheet to my signature. I can't update the spreadsheet. Please advise what I need to do next. Thank you for all your help.
 
I believe Oliver's SS is now in google doc's. I need someone to look at his numbers. I know doses should be equal AM & PM but from his numbers I think Oliver's dose may need to be higher in the PM than AM. Thank you for any input.
 
Adriana Di Prospero said:
I believe Oliver's SS is now in google doc's. I need someone to look at his numbers. I know doses should be equal AM & PM but from his numbers I think Oliver's dose may need to be higher in the PM than AM. Thank you for any input.
Click to expand...
You will need to switch the access on the spreadsheet so anyone with a link can view. Right now only you can see it.
 
Ok great
Adriana Di Prospero said:
Sorry. This is all new to me. I believe I've changed the access. Please try again and let me know if it worked.
Click to expand...
! Yes I see it! Great job getting the spreadsheet going.

Is hard to say if the dose is good without seeing many mid cycle readings. On days that you are home try to get a number 5-7 hours after the shot so we can see how low the dose is taking him. I also recommend getting a before bed test in.
 
I added the 2020 tab to the spreadsheet for more information. I've reduced his dose from 6 U 2 x a day to 3.5 U 2 x a day. I've had a few scary moments during this transition.
 
Hi Adriana,

Next time you are updating your SS, would you please drag that 2021 tab over to the far left? That left most tab is the one that opens for us, when we click on the SS link in your User Id signature.

Thanks for getting that link in your signature. That should really help us.
 
Thanks for moving that 2021 tab to the left!

I see you missed the AM dose today, 1/15/21. Please put 0 (zero) in the dose column whenever you do not give a shot of insulin.

Good chance that Oliver will be quite high at PMPS, with the missed dose. Hope not, but be prepared for that.
 
I did miss a shot, I hectic morning. He was HI for the PM shot, I upped his dose to 4U. But it seems that his BG was reset by the missed dose. His numbers have been really good yesterday and do for today. At 3:30p today he was at 64. I will retest at 5:30P and then again at 7:30P (his normal dose time). Any guidance, if his numbers stay below 200.
 
Adriana Di Prospero said:
I did miss a shot, I hectic morning. He was HI for the PM shot, I upped his dose to 4U. But it seems that his BG was reset by the missed dose. His numbers have been really good yesterday and do for today. At 3:30p today he was at 64. I will retest at 5:30P and then again at 7:30P (his normal dose time). Any guidance, if his numbers stay below 200.
Click to expand...
You earned a decrease. 3.25. If the number is under 200 at shot time stall up to 60 minutes and see if the number goes up.
 
Pookie said:
I can't give dosing advice, but in case no one else responds in time I will call your attention to this from PROZINC DOSING METHODS:

Anytime the BG drops below 90 mg/dL, reduce the dose by 0.25u at the next shot.​

@Deb & Wink
@JanetNJ
@Shelley & Jess

Enid
Click to expand...
Thank you. At 5:30P he was at 74.
JanetNJ said:
You earned a decrease. 3.25. If the number is under 200 at shot time stall up to 60 minutes and see if the number goes up.
Click to expand...
I willl. Thank you
 
Oliver continues to baffle. His PMPS # at 7:30P was 181 so I waited until 8:30P to shoot 3.5U. I check at 5:30AM and he was up to 416. I decided to wait, and shoot at the normal time of 7:30AM and by then he was at 515. Any insights???
 
Oliver is actually due for a dose reduction. Anytime your cat drops < 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L), they have earned a dose reduction.

To me, that black BG at AM pre-shot is saying that Oliver bounced from the low greens yesterday.
It can take 3-6 cycles to clear a bounce.

But in the meantime, I do think you need to reduce the dose to 3.25U.
 
Thank you for the advise. I reduced the dose by .25 (need to get new syringes with this marking). It looks like he has come down much quicker from the bounce. Keeping my fingers crossed the numbers tonight will be good.
 
Unfortunately, there are no syringes that have the 1/4 unit (0.25U) markings on the barrel. The best available only have 1/2 unit (0.5U) markings on the insulin barrel.
You "eyeball" the dose, to see where the bottom of the plunger sits in between. The goal is to try to be consistent with where the plunger is placed in between the lines.

Looks to me like Oliver is really still bouncing from his low BG levels a couple of days ago. Give it a couple more cycles to see when he clears the bounce. Patience my dear.
 
Looking for advise to see if I handled yesterday and today correctly. Just when I thought we had gotten through the bounce, I had what would have been a good number if I had been able to stay at home yesterday to monitor him. His # was 174. I choose not to shoot. And as expected, Oliver had a high number for his PMPS "HI". I thought Oliver's # would be high this morning as well but, the BG# was 189. I gave him a token shot of 1 U. I will be able to do a modified curve this weekend to see what the #s are at the +6 +8 +10. Any guidance is appreciated.
 
So Oliver continues to baffle. Will you review the latest #s I've posted on his SS and give me any thoughts you may have. He has lost weight recently. About 5 years ago, I experienced this weight loss with him when I started using Young Again Zero Maturity. I am currently using FF & Friskies Pate and supplementing with a mix of 1/3 Young Again and 2/3 Dr. Elsey's Clean protein. I am going to just use Dr. Elsey's going forward. His fur has improved. It is now soft instead of tacky. Also, I have 4 other cats in the house, 2 have hyperthyroidism, so I need to be mindful of there nutritional needs as well.
 
First off, that 79 at PMPS tonight earned Oliver a dose reduction, with our SLGS dosing protocol for prozinc. See the sticky at the top of the forum for more information. Reduce the dose by 0.25U. Since you skipped the shot last night, he'll probably be very high in the morning. He was, with that black BG number. But you should absolutely reduce the dose for the next shot. Wait out the highs and the bounce he will have from the skipped shot.

So you would reduce to 3U.

He may need to be fed more Adriana. Until a cat's BG levels are regulated, they can't process the food as well.

Improved fur, soft and silky is a VERY positive sign. We focus on the BG levels a lot, because that gives us a good gauge of how well the insulin is working. But the 5 P's and appetite are good indicators of what is going on too.

It's an extra challenge for you to have to deal with some many other cats with health issues. Do the hyper-T cats get methimazole?
 
I will reduce his dose to 3U going forward. I haven't found a treat yet that he likes. The Young Again food was the cause of his weight loss some years ago when I was trying to find a low carb dry food. I will try just Dr. Esley's going forward. I've tried the purebites freeze dried chicken and duck. He looses interest quickly. He isn't a fan of fish pate. Maybe warm chicken broth in the wet food. Anyway, I will figure something out with the food.

Both hyper-T cats are on methimazole. One on pills (14 yrs old) , the other transdermal (16 yrs old), both are responding well to treatment. Two of my previous cats had the radioactive iodine treatment, which was successful very successful.

I do sincerely appreciate your input. Thank you for taking the time to review Oliver's progress.
 
Does Oliver like any kind of people food? Any kind of plain cooked meat is fine. Or egg. Or cheese, although he may not like the cheeses flavored with dill and herbs like I do or the really strong flavorful cheeses like Asiago! ;)

Other ideas for treats are here, in this link.
List of Low carb healthy treats It may be a bit outdated, since it's from a version of the message board that is a decade old.
Basically any kind of pure protein is good. A treat could even be a tiny bit of his regular food.

I found these Vital Essential freeze dried minnows that my cat really likes. https://www.vitalessentialsraw.com/product/minnows-freeze-dried-treats/
I got them on Chewy.com but they only ship in the USA. They have other flavors than the minnows.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Does Oliver like any kind of people food? Any kind of plain cooked meat is fine. Or egg. Or cheese, although he may not like the cheeses flavored with dill and herbs like I do or the really strong flavorful cheeses like Asiago! ;)

Other ideas for treats are here, in this link.
List of Low carb healthy treats It may be a bit outdated, since it's from a version of the message board that is a decade old.
Basically any kind of pure protein is good. A treat could even be a tiny bit of his regular food.

I found these Vital Essential freeze dried minnows that my cat really likes. https://www.vitalessentialsraw.com/product/minnows-freeze-dried-treats/
I got them on Chewy.com but they only ship in the USA. They have other flavors than the minnows.
Click to expand...

Oliver does not beg for people food. I will try the minnows. FF has a pure protein treat, but it may be cheaper to cook chicken and give it to him. He does like the water from canned chicken. I can our some in his food as well. Prior to the diabetes diagnosis, he loved the meaty sticks. I will check out the carbs on the sticks that are available now.
 
Do you mean something like the Sheba Meaty Tender Sticks? They do have sugar in them. How about something like the Tiki Cat Stix?

Plain cooked chicken is a fine treat. I simply boil a small piece of chicken, or cook it in the microwave and cut it into tiny pieces. Freezes well too, and you can take out as much as you need for a few days.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Do you mean something like the Sheba Meaty Tender Sticks? They do have sugar in them. How about something like the Tiki Cat Stix?

Plain cooked chicken is a fine treat. I simply boil a small piece of chicken, or cook it in the microwave and cut it into tiny pieces. Freezes well too, and you can take out as much as you need for a few days.
Click to expand...
I just purchased a package of raw chicken tenders to cook this weekend. I will set aside several for Oliver's treats. I did so the Tiki Cat Stix. I will look on Chewy or Petsmart website about ordering to have on hand. There is a local store that sells the freeze dried minnows. The store is actually on my way home from work, so I can swing by today and check it out.
 
I didn't realize its been so long since I last checked in with Oliver. I just wanted to give an update. There were a few bumps, wrong food (FF Naturals Gravy was mixed with the Naturals Pate I ordered), a donated bottle of ProZinc that turned out to be bad, leaving a 3/4 full replacement bottle out for 2 hours that went bad. All caused bounces galore, and a hypo event on 5/3. Everything is finally stable and I've been able to get evening numbers. Oliver just earned a .25U reduction in dose. Now down to 2.5U 2 x a day. I really appreciate having this venue to discuss Oliver's journey.
 
Hi Oliver is loosing weight and I am concerned. I will be calling the vet today to make an appointment. Are you able to look at his spreadsheet to see if there is a pattern I am missing. He was in the 50s from 1 - 2 this morning and then jumped to 461 at 6:45 AM. I still reduced his dose by 1/4 U. The vets in my area are not well informed about diabetes. So any questions you think I should ask are appreciated.
 
Adriana Di Prospero said:
Hi Oliver is loosing weight and I am concerned. I will be calling the vet today to make an appointment. Are you able to look at his spreadsheet to see if there is a pattern I am missing. He was in the 50s from 1 - 2 this morning and then jumped to 461 at 6:45 AM. I still reduced his dose by 1/4 U. The vets in my area are not well informed about diabetes. So any questions you think I should ask are appreciated.
Click to expand...
Based in his spreadsheet, it looks like he is most likely bouncing (seeing higher numbers) from the greens he saw last night. Bounces can be caused by low numbers, quick drops or numbers the cat isn’t used to, and it looks like all three of those could be the case for Oliver last night. Bounces can take up to six cycles to clear. Since he has been in the low 50s a few times that you have caught, it would be really good to get at least one test during the day and one before bed test every night (if possible) to really get a good picture of what he is doing every day.

Maybe @JanetNJ will have more advice.
 
The bloodwork results for Oliver came in and it shows that he has the onset of Kidney insufficiency. Since the day of the very trumatic Vet visit, Oliver's numbers have been in the 400's. I went back to 2 U. The Vet is recommending a change from Prozinc to Lantus. I don't know how to post his results on this page for review. Any suggestions or comments are appreciated.
 
Adriana Di Prospero said:
I just found the instructions for inserting a file. Below is Oliver's Bloodwork report. How serious are his kidney numbers?
Click to expand...
Ok a few things. First your cat got to 50bg so lower the dose to 1.75. ProZinc is a good insulin.... Not sure why he wants to switch you, but you could.

Looks like he's got an infection brewing. The wbc count is a little higher than it should be.

The red bc count is on the low end of normal. You may want to start giving b 12 methylcobalamin supplements and b complex to stave off anemia who's is common in ckd cats.

Did the vet give any fluids? He looks a little dehydrated. Add extra water to his wet food.

The kidneys are stage 2 ckd. The phosphorus really isn't bad though which makes me wonder if the infection and dehydration are making the numbers look inflated. This is an amazing ckd site. http://www.felinecrf.org/how_bad_is_it.htm

One thing you could do is change to a low carb food that is also low in phosphorus such as weruva.

There's a great ckd group on Facebook called Cats with Renal Failure.
 
Thank you so much for your input. I would prefer to keep him on Prozinc, since changing would require going to the lowest level of lantus and then going up if warranted. I will check out the ckd site. He drinks a lot of water, and I also add water to the pate. The vet does want to give him either an antibiotic or convenia shot. The convenia would be an easier dose. He can get very grumpy, he is prone to UTI but hasn't had one in over a year. I will look at a low phosphorus food and begin tomorrow with a local supply and order more online. I will also order a b12 methylcobalamin supplement from Chewy as well as the b complex. I wanted to wait until there was a response to my post before I contact the vet. Again, thank you so much. I feel I can speak with some knowledge now when I call the vet.
 
Adriana Di Prospero said:
Thank you so much for your input. I would prefer to keep him on Prozinc, since changing would require going to the lowest level of lantus and then going up if warranted. I will check out the ckd site. He drinks a lot of water, and I also add water to the pate. The vet does want to give him either an antibiotic or convenia shot. The convenia would be an easier dose. He can get very grumpy, he is prone to UTI but hasn't had one in over a year. I will look at a low phosphorus food and begin tomorrow with a local supply and order more online. I will also order a b12 methylcobalamin supplement from Chewy as well as the b complex. I wanted to wait until there was a response to my post before I contact the vet. Again, thank you so much. I feel I can speak with some knowledge now when I call the vet.
Click to expand...
at some point you may start doinG sub q fluids.. Usually when they hit 3 creatnine... But again I think that number might go down a little with the antibiotics. I'm so glad your dr mentioned giving them.
This is what I fed my diabetic ckd cat. there are other suitable choices as well.


Weruva slide and serve pate foods Family Food (.97 phosphorus and 0 carb).

Jeopurrdy Chicken (0.97 P 6.1 carb)

What a Crock 0.71 phosphorus and 8 carb lots of gravy so she loved it.

Goody stew shoes 0.71 phosphorus, 8.5 carb. This one was a big hit

Weruva Steak Frites (0.57 phosphorus 5.5 carb although I take out any big pieces of potatoes to try to limit the carbs just a bit)

Weruva LA isla Bonita - phosphorus 0.77 carb 4.5 (used to like, not a favorite anymore)

Glam and punk 1% carb, 0.93 phosphorous.

Weruva paw lickin chicken 3.3 carb 0.82 p

Press your lunch 5.9 carb. 0.82 phosphorous

Bff play Laugh Out Loud chicken and lamb 7.7 carb, 0.82 phosphorous

BFF play destiny (chicken and duck) 0.87 phosphorus 7.7 carb

Bff play chicken cherish 0.71 phosphorus 7.6 carb

Bff play best buds chicken and beef 7.9 carb 0.9 phosphorus

Bff play chicken Checkmate. 7.7 carb 0.7 phos

On the Cat Wok 3.8 carb 0.74 phos
 
This is great. I was just getting ready to look up possible foods. Unfortunately, there are 5 cats in the family and what I feed one I need to fed to all, two of whom have hyperthyroidism.
 
Adriana Di Prospero said:
This is great. I was just getting ready to look up possible foods. Unfortunately, there are 5 cats in the family and what I feed one I need to fed to all, two of whom have hyperthyroidism.
Click to expand...
Oh boy you have your hands full. 3 of my five are seniors. So far right now just one has issues. (Ckd and recently had 7 teeth pulled). My CC had ckd, diabetes
(acromegaly), Hyperthyroidism, heart murmur, arthritis.... But she was large and in CHARGE. LOL
 
There is a Petco close by so, after dinner tonight will pick up the slide and serve and another variety. I have 8 in total. Three live in the large sunroom, these were my "ferals" I needed to take with me when I moved. It's a revolving door at the vet office.
 
Adriana Di Prospero said:
There is a Petco close by so, after dinner tonight will pick up the slide and serve and another variety. I have 8 in total. Three live in the large sunroom, these were my "ferals" I needed to take with me when I moved. It's a revolving door at the vet office.
Click to expand...
If the three are seperate you can feed them their own thing. So kind to take them with you. All 5 of mine were backyard finds. Two were born outside, and I believe the other three were dumped. We also care for three outside ferals. We put a pet door on our garage door so they can go inside when they want and have beds and heated cat tents in there.
 
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