Hercules has gone full circle, not sure what to do next?

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Wow, Hercules is such a hunk! :D

I'm not great with deciphering spreadsheets but he could be bouncing still. For one thing, bouncing can take up to 6 cycles to clear, and that blue from yesterday could have started him up again.

Have you looked at the sticky on the Prozinc forum about dosing protocols? We have different advice depending on what protocol you're using.
 
I agree, you have to wait out what is very likely a bounce from yesterday morning. We don't know if he went lower than the blues you saw at +4 and +5, but even blues are probably enough to trigger one of his bounces.

Question: weren't you going to go down to 0.25U for a while? I thought that was what Deb had suggested after the multiple lime greens.
 
You are correct Nan, but I couldn't draw it :oops:
The 0.25 is so close to the top of the syringe, and there seems to always be a bit of air on top, even if am pushing the plunger and liquid is coming out? Is it just me?
I could invest in some U100 and try going even lower, if you think that is what is going on?

Question: I tought we wanted to keep him in the blues? Am I totally in the wrong path?
 
Well, I think the main problem is just that he isn't yet used to the blues and lower numbers. He's still very early in his FD story, it's just going to take time.

I have no experience with U-40 syringes, others may have some tips short of getting the U-100 and doing the conversion but yes, that's definitely an option for these tiny doses.
 
Haha what a sneak he is!

I've used U-40s, I had a harder time using them in general because the needles were so long they'd go right through my girl's skin and back out the other side! Too many fur shots for me. :nailbiting:
You can absolutely switch to U-100s, if you are in the US you can get them at Walmart at the pharmacy counter. Here is the conversion chart. I printed it out and stuck it to the fridge. The only thing is is it's still tricky to do quarter units when using Prozinc in U-100 syringes because the conversion chart doesn't list "0.50 units of Prozinc in a U-100 syringe". The options are only 0.40 or 0.60. So you'll still have to try to eyeball it in the middle.
 
Ok, I guess I need to do more reading about bouncing....
So, I don't need to worry about these very high numbers today? Should I kep at at "skinny" 0.5 for afew more days ans see what happens? How long until I am allowed to worry again? :nailbiting::D
 
Maybe re-test? He shouldn't be still going up right now.

If he's really that high, is he still eating and drinking and otherwise seems normal?

High numbers on their own aren't worrying (although it can cause damage over the long term), but sometimes they can be an indicator of something else wrong.
 
Panic said:
Haha what a sneak he is!

I've used U-40s, I had a harder time using them in general because the needles were so long they'd go right through my girl's skin and back out the other side! Too many fur shots for me. :nailbiting:
You can absolutely switch to U-100s, if you are in the US you can get them at Walmart at the pharmacy counter. Here is the conversion chart. I printed it out and stuck it to the fridge. The only thing is is it's still tricky to do quarter units when using Prozinc in U-100 syringes because the conversion chart doesn't list "0.50 units of Prozinc in a U-100 syringe". The options are only 0.40 or 0.60. So you'll still have to try to eyeball it in the middle.
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Hmmmm... I'm using this one? Is has 0.25U
 

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How to not go nuts and retest every single value?

I am curions about Nan's comments that it shouldn't be going up. I tought we were supposed to see a sort of V? That is why I didn't question the numbers going up since +6
 
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Hercule's mum said:
How to not go nuts and retest every single value?
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If the number seems out of place, that's when you retest. Like a really low number at pre-shot, or a really high number near nadir for example. Also remember meter variance (up to 20%). 440 and 550 seem like huge leaps but they can be considered the same number. If something does seem off, you can always add/subtract 20% first.

Sasha is correct, Prozinc makes a smiley face. NPH/Vetsulin make a check mark (or V), and Lantus/Levemir make a flat line. Generally. For some cats it does not.
 
Thank's Sasha and Panic, that is what I thought. I just assumed Hercs charts were a bit sharper, but higher numbers towards PMPS was to be expected, right? How high at pre shots are "normal" and nothing to worry about? Should it be no more than reds? Or should I expect to see black quite often?
 
Pre-shots are the last numbers to go down. With in-and-out insulin especially (which Prozinc is) you'll see the dose wearing out by the end so that's why you see the rise at pre-shot. With depot insulin it's not as obvious. There are other cats who have a little dip right before pre-shot before going back up - that's why it's good to get tests in at +10 and +11 on occasion. You'll find all kinds of cycle quirks happening.

Reds and blacks are normal for new diabetics. Sometimes they take months to tackle and pull lower, then they turn into pinks and yellows. Depends on the cat and how tightly regulated they are. I know I wish I'd followed the protocols closer when I first started, I feel like Panic's spreadsheet wouldn't have had so many reds and blacks in the first several months. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry for the confusion-- it wasn't on the spreadsheet yet so I thought you were earlier in the cycle, didn't realize you were at +10 when you got that number. I was actually looking at the black number at +6 and thinking that was higher than I would have expected, but it's probably just because you're using the AT2-- numbers are going to be much more extreme at the high end than what I'm used to seeing with human meters.
 
Hercule's mum said:
The 0.25 is so close to the top of the syringe, and there seems to always be a bit of air on top, even if am pushing the plunger and liquid is coming out? Is it just me?
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Tip:

* Draw up about 1 - 1.5 units more than the dose you need (e.g. if giving a dose of 1 unit, draw up 2 - 2.5 units of insulin).

* Hold the syringe with the needle pointing upwards.

* Flick the side of the syringe to move any bubbles up to the top of the barrel.

* Keep the syringe needle pointed upwards and express most of the excess insulin. This should remove the air bubbles.

* Finish by doing the fine adjustment to set the required dose.

It's just like you see in the movies! :D


Mogs
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@Nan & Amber (GA) = No worries! I was quite muddled myself! I take away from this discussion that his numbers are looking okish (and sorry I just changed meters to get thing even more confusing...), and I should relax a bit? No extreme low values, reduction of about 50% at nadir, and the super high PS values should be ignored. Am i interpreting the directions, right?
 
Whew! I was afraid I was even more confused than I thought!

The only colors that change are the cutoff between lime green and green: for pet meters (your current sheet) anything below 3.8 is lime green, while for human meters anything below 2.8 is lime green. To get it to switch automatically you could go into the conditional formatting on the cells, which is easy, but it might not affect the World-US conversion at the same time, I'm not sure (never looked at exactly how that is coded, it should also be easy, but...).

One easy option with no conditional formatting adjustments is to just keep everything the way it is and remember to hand-color any cells that turn up lime green that should be dark green. Whichever method you choose, make sure to make a big, obvious dividing line on your spreadsheet where you make the switch. [edit: whoops! I see you have already done that! never mind...]
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I'm sure members will come along later on to give you some advice, I see why it can be very frustrating. Hang in there for more replys :cat:

I'll tag Sienne , Deb and/Elizabeth for you to see if they can help you sort this out. Deb comes on at night
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

@Deb & Wink

@Panic

Thank you Sienne ,Deb and Elizabeth
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@Diane Tyler's Mom - I'm not getting the tags from you. This one did not work for me, nor did the one to have me look at Tyler's thread.
 
Thanks Diane!

I know I need to be patient with his numbers, but perhaps it is the lack of understanding of what is going on to gets me in overdrive.... He doesn't seem to be responding the way I read in the books... :bookworm:

It seems that the 0.5U is starting to not have much of an effect? I don't want to go up with the doese and back to the a crazy yo-yo of very high and very low numbers.... How long should I hold this pattern before deciding the dose is not reducing down to 50%?
 
Hercule's mum said:
Thanks Diane!

I know I need to be patient with his numbers, but perhaps it is the lack of understanding of what is going on to gets me in overdrive.... He doesn't seem to be responding the way I read in the books... :bookworm:

It seems that the 0.5U is starting to not have much of an effect? I don't want to go up with the doese and back to the a crazy yo-yo of very high and very low numbers.... How long should I hold this pattern before deciding the dose is not reducing down to 50%?
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Hi you might what to tag @Panic I have no idea about Prozinc and am not experienced with giving advice on dosing. I just tagged her for you
 
Thanks Daiane! I don't feel like I earned "credits" to tag people yet.... :oops:

I am trying to reads load to learn and feel more confident about making decisions, so I don't bug people here too much. You guys are wonderful, but you must be silly busy!

Hercules had a blue reading this afternoon so I guess that is pacience leads me....:rolleyes::smuggrin: I'll stay where I am for a few more days (to complete a full week with new food, and new dose) and then I'll do a day long detailed curve. I hope that sounds like a good plan.
 
I'm also new here, but its my experience that people are here cause they want to be, maybe they don't even have a cat with diabetes anymore, but they know what a huge roller-coaster this is, and their experiences makes a real difference in so many cats around the world.
No one is forcing anyone to reply even with tags, so tag away!
You don't bug anyone :bighug:
 
Hercule's mum said:
Thanks Daiane! I don't feel like I earned "credits" to tag people yet.... :oops:

I am trying to reads load to learn and feel more confident about making decisions, so I don't bug people here too much. You guys are wonderful, but you must be silly busy!

Hercules had a blue reading this afternoon so I guess that is pacience leads me....:rolleyes::smuggrin: I'll stay where I am for a few more days (to complete a full week with new food, and new dose) and then I'll do a day long detailed curve. I hope that sounds like a good plan.
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You are not bugging anyone, like jt and trouble and SashaV said that's is what we are here for, so tag away , by the way can you tell us your name ,only if you want to :cat:
 
Hercule's mum said:
I know I need to be patient with his numbers, but perhaps it is the lack of understanding of what is going on to gets me in overdrive.... He doesn't seem to be responding the way I read in the books... :bookworm:
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Alas, you'll find plenty of cats that's aren't "textbooks" examples. There's so many variables in FD, even our most clever and experienced members here still get thrown for a loop often enough!
A lot of understanding spreadsheets just comes with experience ... I've been here a little over a year and still struggle to catch patterns in spreadsheets. I would imagine other members feel the same, despite their seniority here. Some people are really good at it though (looking at you, Deb!!).
Hercule's mum said:
It seems that the 0.5U is starting to not have much of an effect?
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And you spoke too soon haha! That 110 today was a beautiful sight!
Doing a full curve is fine, but if you get a few spot checks every day there's no need to do a curve later, you'll already have all the info you need. You can actually keep doing what you've been doing with the 2-5 spot checks during the day which will help reveal the cycle much better than one day's curve (especially if Herc decides to do something funky that day, like bounce or get into contraband!). I do recommend getting a +2 every cycle, it is a good indicator of what his cycle is going to be like.
Hercule's mum said:
I am trying to reads load to learn and feel more confident about making decisions, so I don't bug people here too much. You guys are wonderful, but you must be silly busy!
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Tag away! :D I still do pajama parties and spend hours here reading, encouraging, and helping others because I loved my sugar cat and a large portion of the members who helped me with her didn't have their sugar babies anymore but stayed to help. Passing it along!
 
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