Hercules has gone full circle, not sure what to do next?

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Hercule's mum, Aug 9, 2020.

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  1. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the previous help in sorting Hercs dosing. We have gone up with prozinc, got a few low BGscares. We have gone down with the dose, and his BG is looking really bad today (4 cycles in). Shall I go up again?
     
  2. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Well as you know I cannot give advice but God love ya! You and Hrec are doing one heck of a dance!
     
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  3. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    This too will get sorted. Try not to stress. You have an ARMY behind you! ;)
     
  4. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jeanne. I am feeling a bit discouraged today.... the dance is getting me a bit tired...
     
  5. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure members will come along later on to give you some advice, I see why it can be very frustrating. Hang in there for more replys :cat:

    I'll tag Sienne , Deb and/Elizabeth for you to see if they can help you sort this out. Deb comes on at night
    @Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    @Deb & Wink

    @Panic

    Thank you Sienne ,Deb and Elizabeth
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  6. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You are tired but not BEAT. Once you get this dance to a more stable level your strength will swell and you shall RISE!
    One day you will be repeating the same words to a spent dancer... you will;)
     
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  7. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    :blackeye: bruised but not KO'd.....:)
     
  8. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    THATS WHAT I LIKE TO HEAR! :D You GO girl!
     
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  9. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Wow, Hercules is such a hunk! :D

    I'm not great with deciphering spreadsheets but he could be bouncing still. For one thing, bouncing can take up to 6 cycles to clear, and that blue from yesterday could have started him up again.

    Have you looked at the sticky on the Prozinc forum about dosing protocols? We have different advice depending on what protocol you're using.
     
  10. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I agree, you have to wait out what is very likely a bounce from yesterday morning. We don't know if he went lower than the blues you saw at +4 and +5, but even blues are probably enough to trigger one of his bounces.

    Question: weren't you going to go down to 0.25U for a while? I thought that was what Deb had suggested after the multiple lime greens.
     
  11. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    You are correct Nan, but I couldn't draw it :oops:
    The 0.25 is so close to the top of the syringe, and there seems to always be a bit of air on top, even if am pushing the plunger and liquid is coming out? Is it just me?
    I could invest in some U100 and try going even lower, if you think that is what is going on?

    Question: I tought we wanted to keep him in the blues? Am I totally in the wrong path?
     
  12. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Panic! I change my avatar to show him on the "testing spot". Do you see all the paraphernali around him? He is always hoping to get an extra snack if he hangs about....:D
     
  13. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think the main problem is just that he isn't yet used to the blues and lower numbers. He's still very early in his FD story, it's just going to take time.

    I have no experience with U-40 syringes, others may have some tips short of getting the U-100 and doing the conversion but yes, that's definitely an option for these tiny doses.
     
  14. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Haha what a sneak he is!

    I've used U-40s, I had a harder time using them in general because the needles were so long they'd go right through my girl's skin and back out the other side! Too many fur shots for me. :nailbiting:
    You can absolutely switch to U-100s, if you are in the US you can get them at Walmart at the pharmacy counter. Here is the conversion chart. I printed it out and stuck it to the fridge. The only thing is is it's still tricky to do quarter units when using Prozinc in U-100 syringes because the conversion chart doesn't list "0.50 units of Prozinc in a U-100 syringe". The options are only 0.40 or 0.60. So you'll still have to try to eyeball it in the middle.
     
  15. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I guess I need to do more reading about bouncing....
    So, I don't need to worry about these very high numbers today? Should I kep at at "skinny" 0.5 for afew more days ans see what happens? How long until I am allowed to worry again? :nailbiting::D
     
  16. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Yikes 31 at +10! Is Hercs going to be ok?
     
  17. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Maybe re-test? He shouldn't be still going up right now.

    If he's really that high, is he still eating and drinking and otherwise seems normal?

    High numbers on their own aren't worrying (although it can cause damage over the long term), but sometimes they can be an indicator of something else wrong.
     
  18. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    It was a lot of blood, but I'll just go test him again.

    He is eating!
     
  19. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    22.9! Ok so just a weird readindg, Pheew!

    I didn't even think it could have been an odd one :oops:
     
  20. SashaV

    SashaV Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm... I'm using this one? Is has 0.25U
     

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  21. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    They look to be about the same - still has you eyeballing since 0.6 or 1.3 isn't marked on a U-100 syringe. I've never seen the petdiabetes.com one before but I would assume either could be used since they're basically the same.
     
  22. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Math checks out (roughly, anyway; 0.25U in U-40 is equivalent to 0.625U in U-100, but good luck measuring that last 0.025U on any syringe!!!)
     
  23. SashaV

    SashaV Well-Known Member

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    I got it from here, so I hope so :D
     
  24. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    How to not go nuts and retest every single value?

    I am curions about Nan's comments that it shouldn't be going up. I tought we were supposed to see a sort of V? That is why I didn't question the numbers going up since +6
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  25. SashaV

    SashaV Well-Known Member

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    As I understand, you should se a smiley.
    Middle, dropping steady until bottom - greens or blue, and a steady rise back up, not a huge jump. :rb_icon:like a rainbow if you turn it upside down
     
  26. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    If the number seems out of place, that's when you retest. Like a really low number at pre-shot, or a really high number near nadir for example. Also remember meter variance (up to 20%). 440 and 550 seem like huge leaps but they can be considered the same number. If something does seem off, you can always add/subtract 20% first.

    Sasha is correct, Prozinc makes a smiley face. NPH/Vetsulin make a check mark (or V), and Lantus/Levemir make a flat line. Generally. For some cats it does not.
     
  27. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thank's Sasha and Panic, that is what I thought. I just assumed Hercs charts were a bit sharper, but higher numbers towards PMPS was to be expected, right? How high at pre shots are "normal" and nothing to worry about? Should it be no more than reds? Or should I expect to see black quite often?
     
  28. SashaV

    SashaV Well-Known Member

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    Try looking at other cats SS. Huge difference all over. But it gives you an idea
     
  29. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Pre-shots are the last numbers to go down. With in-and-out insulin especially (which Prozinc is) you'll see the dose wearing out by the end so that's why you see the rise at pre-shot. With depot insulin it's not as obvious. There are other cats who have a little dip right before pre-shot before going back up - that's why it's good to get tests in at +10 and +11 on occasion. You'll find all kinds of cycle quirks happening.

    Reds and blacks are normal for new diabetics. Sometimes they take months to tackle and pull lower, then they turn into pinks and yellows. Depends on the cat and how tightly regulated they are. I know I wish I'd followed the protocols closer when I first started, I feel like Panic's spreadsheet wouldn't have had so many reds and blacks in the first several months. :rolleyes:
     
  30. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the confusion-- it wasn't on the spreadsheet yet so I thought you were earlier in the cycle, didn't realize you were at +10 when you got that number. I was actually looking at the black number at +6 and thinking that was higher than I would have expected, but it's probably just because you're using the AT2-- numbers are going to be much more extreme at the high end than what I'm used to seeing with human meters.
     
  31. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Tip:

    * Draw up about 1 - 1.5 units more than the dose you need (e.g. if giving a dose of 1 unit, draw up 2 - 2.5 units of insulin).

    * Hold the syringe with the needle pointing upwards.

    * Flick the side of the syringe to move any bubbles up to the top of the barrel.

    * Keep the syringe needle pointed upwards and express most of the excess insulin. This should remove the air bubbles.

    * Finish by doing the fine adjustment to set the required dose.

    It's just like you see in the movies! :D


    Mogs
    .
     
  32. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    @Nan & Amber (GA) = No worries! I was quite muddled myself! I take away from this discussion that his numbers are looking okish (and sorry I just changed meters to get thing even more confusing...), and I should relax a bit? No extreme low values, reduction of about 50% at nadir, and the super high PS values should be ignored. Am i interpreting the directions, right?
     
  33. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Wait... when did you switch meters? Is this a human meter? If so, you have to change the color-coding on your spreadsheet and note where the switch happened-- right now it looks like you're still using the AT2.
     
  34. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    I change as of today... How do I change the colours?
     
  35. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Whew! I was afraid I was even more confused than I thought!

    The only colors that change are the cutoff between lime green and green: for pet meters (your current sheet) anything below 3.8 is lime green, while for human meters anything below 2.8 is lime green. To get it to switch automatically you could go into the conditional formatting on the cells, which is easy, but it might not affect the World-US conversion at the same time, I'm not sure (never looked at exactly how that is coded, it should also be easy, but...).

    One easy option with no conditional formatting adjustments is to just keep everything the way it is and remember to hand-color any cells that turn up lime green that should be dark green. Whichever method you choose, make sure to make a big, obvious dividing line on your spreadsheet where you make the switch. [edit: whoops! I see you have already done that! never mind...]
     
  36. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    I did the big line, but ddn't think about the fact that it was only really clear in the "rest of the world" sheet. Is fixed now!
     
  37. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    @Diane Tyler's Mom - I'm not getting the tags from you. This one did not work for me, nor did the one to have me look at Tyler's thread.
     
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  38. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Deb & Wink Deb did you get this tag? Please let me know :cat:
     
  39. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Deb & Wink tagging you to see if my tag worked let me know ok:cat:
     
  40. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Diane!

    I know I need to be patient with his numbers, but perhaps it is the lack of understanding of what is going on to gets me in overdrive.... He doesn't seem to be responding the way I read in the books... :bookworm:

    It seems that the 0.5U is starting to not have much of an effect? I don't want to go up with the doese and back to the a crazy yo-yo of very high and very low numbers.... How long should I hold this pattern before deciding the dose is not reducing down to 50%?
     
  41. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Look at when you started with this dose. Look at the numbers just above and how long you held that dose.. I'm NOT an expert but maybe that will give you an idea?
     
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  42. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi you might what to tag @Panic I have no idea about Prozinc and am not experienced with giving advice on dosing. I just tagged her for you
     
  43. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Daiane! I don't feel like I earned "credits" to tag people yet.... :oops:

    I am trying to reads load to learn and feel more confident about making decisions, so I don't bug people here too much. You guys are wonderful, but you must be silly busy!

    Hercules had a blue reading this afternoon so I guess that is pacience leads me....:rolleyes::smuggrin: I'll stay where I am for a few more days (to complete a full week with new food, and new dose) and then I'll do a day long detailed curve. I hope that sounds like a good plan.
     
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  44. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It does and you arent "bothering" anyone. That is what we are here for. Remember ALL of us have been in your shoes. Thats what brings us back here.;):coffee:
     
  45. SashaV

    SashaV Well-Known Member

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    I'm also new here, but its my experience that people are here cause they want to be, maybe they don't even have a cat with diabetes anymore, but they know what a huge roller-coaster this is, and their experiences makes a real difference in so many cats around the world.
    No one is forcing anyone to reply even with tags, so tag away!
    You don't bug anyone :bighug:
     
  46. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    .
    You are not bugging anyone, like jt and trouble and SashaV said that's is what we are here for, so tag away , by the way can you tell us your name ,only if you want to :cat:
     
  47. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone! :bighug: I'll be braver at tagging!
     
  48. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    that would be me :p
     
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  49. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Alas, you'll find plenty of cats that's aren't "textbooks" examples. There's so many variables in FD, even our most clever and experienced members here still get thrown for a loop often enough!
    A lot of understanding spreadsheets just comes with experience ... I've been here a little over a year and still struggle to catch patterns in spreadsheets. I would imagine other members feel the same, despite their seniority here. Some people are really good at it though (looking at you, Deb!!).
    And you spoke too soon haha! That 110 today was a beautiful sight!
    Doing a full curve is fine, but if you get a few spot checks every day there's no need to do a curve later, you'll already have all the info you need. You can actually keep doing what you've been doing with the 2-5 spot checks during the day which will help reveal the cycle much better than one day's curve (especially if Herc decides to do something funky that day, like bounce or get into contraband!). I do recommend getting a +2 every cycle, it is a good indicator of what his cycle is going to be like.
    Tag away! :D I still do pajama parties and spend hours here reading, encouraging, and helping others because I loved my sugar cat and a large portion of the members who helped me with her didn't have their sugar babies anymore but stayed to help. Passing it along!
     
  50. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Uhhhh that would be ME! :p
    Deb completely blows my mind! KABOOM!
     
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  51. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Panic. I have been looking at people's spreadsheet and I do not see patterns at all :confused:

    His blue today is a good example....Nothing has changed from yesterday :confused:

    I had agreed with the vet just over a week ago to go up to 1.5 and do curve..... Look where we are now! I need to send her an update. But thank you for telling me I don't need to do curves, I don't like them!
     
  52. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    No. Please hold the dose steady for at least 2 to 6 more cycles.

    The pre-shots will stay high until the mid-cycle numbers start coming down.
    Don't base the dose change on the pre-shots.

    Cats kind of do their own thing, and don't always read the books. It's one reason we say ECID. Every Cat is Different. Every Caregiver is Different too.

    Tags are fine. You don't have to "earn credits" in order to tag someone. But do be aware that you might not get an answer for several hours or more. Life is busy for those of us helping here too. Grocery shopping, laundry, cats and homes to take care of, goofing off in the garden, etc.
    Blacks = bouncing. Hercs will be fine.

    Eventually, you want to see Hercules testing down in the tree green BG ranges at nadir. Not the neon green BG ranges, but those darker greens, like the color of the leaves on the trees.

    Try looking at some of the threads over on the Prozinc ISG. Look at @SashaV for example, and her cat Mauer.
     
  53. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Deb & Wink i have looked at Mauer's sheet, and many more.... I look to see how the rules are being applied and how the cats have responded to changes, and I don't see it....
    For example, the reason I tought I needed to go up with insulin for Hercules is because we are barely touching blue at the moment. If the goal is to be in the green zone at nadir, how would that happen if I just keep the insulin the same?
     
  54. KyraCat

    KyraCat Member

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    Jul 1, 2020
    Hi Hercule's mom!

    Kyra and I are still rather new here too and we are just going into the start of a bounce after I misunderstood what I should have done yesterday morning with such a low amps reading. I actually came across your thread trying to find out how long a bounce can last! Because, like you, I can easily panic and want to put the dose up, but I won't(!!!) because I got fantastic advice yesterday and was told to give 2units a go and to give it time to do it's thing! But I hate seeing reds and blacks after we were doing so well but hey, that's how it is! this is a huge learning curve for us newbies! :)

    Anyway I thought I could post and you could have another SS to look at and you can watch us go through our bounce a few days after you and Hercule have gone through yours.
     
  55. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Jul 27, 2020
    Hi Jemma!
    I have seen Kyra's SS. You are doing something really well! Her numbers have come down! It is confusing isn't, that sometimes giving less insulin lead to lower numbers than higher insulin? It is this bounce thing, I guess, although I still dont get it....:oops:

    I will sit tight on 0.5 for now, and keep an eye on you SS, thanks for getting in touch!
     
  56. KyraCat

    KyraCat Member

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    Jul 1, 2020
    No problem! I know how lost you can feel during all of this - It can maddening at times!!

    Someone explained it to me that, in some cases, you can miss the perfect dose if you go up and down the units by too much (we have also been told by the vets to do .5 units each time not .25 like the amazing support group on here tell you to) so you will see it is only these last few days that we have introduced .25 increases and decreases. They also told me that staying on a certain dose for too long can be unhelpful, our vet had us stick to doses for at least 2 weeks at a time - Now I will be working to a 7 day schedule - all depending on how Kyra reacts of course!!

    With bounces, the way I explain it to myself, whilst pouring over Kyra's numbers for hours on end, is that he has almost gotten used to functioning at such a high BG level that when he gets to a great reading his body reacts and is like OH NO I NEED MORE GLUCOSE!!! and that's when we see the bounce.

    I'm not gonna lie I love a good nose at a spreadsheet, not that I can really understand a lot of the time what is going on, but I would get super jealous seeing all the doses decreasing for people...but I think we are getting there...maybe....possibly...who knows haha!!
     
  57. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    THIS is what I LOVE about our community! Karen and Jemma YOU ROCK!
     
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  58. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Humm, that is interesting! I haven't heard that yet, why is it? i'll snoop on your threads to find out....

    You WILL get there! :) But focus on kitty health. I had gestational diabetes, and remember loosing a lot of weigth because didn't want to take much insulin. Until docs sat me down and set that providing all the nutrients for baby and me was more important, even if it meant more insulin.... So, I think keeping healthy BG is the goal!
     
  59. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    glucose toxicity sets in. dont ask me to explain it just google . :p
     
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  60. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Black = bouncing. Hercule was black at AMPS on 8/12/20 ( 12/8/20 in your date format).
    Those high reds are bouncing too.

    Patience is needed for a few more cycles, to see when Hercules clears this bounce. Bouncing keeps the BG levels higher, and you have to look and see when the bounce breaks before you decide to increase the dose again.

    Yes, Hercules is only in the blues, but he is in the low blues. Not the tree greens yet, but he will get there. Give it time for his body to adjust. For his body, it thinks those low blues are too low so it dumps hormones and various sugars into the bloodstream to bring the BG numbers up to a level it considers safe. A cats body can over do it though, and that leads to higher numbers later in the cycle and for several cycles after that. Hence, the "bounce".

    Patience little grasshopper, patience.
    Please hold the 0.5U dose for a few more cycles, would be my recommendation.
     
  61. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Jul 27, 2020

    Thank you Deb! Your message really soothed me. I *think* I can see what you mean.... the smiles are getting a bit less extreme at the ends, and the size of the peaks at the end is the bouncing from the insulin effect, so I am looking for that to flatten up a bit?
     
  62. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Argh! We started the day with me thinking it was going to look good and calmer.... but he had another strange day! Numbers going way up, at what I would think it was around his nadir (+6). I was worried it was a wrong reading and repeated, but it gave me 20.1. Is this part of the bounce too?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
  63. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It can be bouncing can take several days so put those patience pants on and hold on for more replies;)
    @Deb & Wink since she helped you yesterday.
     
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  64. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    @Hercule's mum -

    Hi Karen,

    I hope the following analogy might be of help in understanding what's happening with bouncing BGs and the gradual nature of blood glucose regulation with insulin.

    Think about what happens when you go swimming in the sea in early summer when it's a lovely hot day on land and you'd love to cool down with a nice dip, but the seawater's a tad on the parky side.

    If you enter the water quickly your body freaks at the temperature differential and all it wants to make you do is run back up onto the beach because the warmth is more familiar and 'feels safer'. However, if you take time to gradually ease into the water, your body will have time to adjust and recognise that the water is not cold enough to harm it and you can slowly and surely ease yourself further into the briny, eventually having a nice refreshing swim.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
  65. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Jul 27, 2020
    Hi Mogs @Critter Mom ! Thanks! I *think* I understand the concept of a bounce. What I am having trouble with is recognizing, and understanding how can i tell apart from a "real" response.

    After what Deb said, I tought that I could see and understand a bounce that reveal itself as Pre shots being quite high, in response from the mid cycle low induced by insulin. So, as kitty gets used to having lower BG, the smile would get less pronounced (less bouncy)

    However, what I am seeing with Hercules are days that things go low, followed by days with everything being in high side. For example, in the 9th and the 10th of August his BG was always above 18, while on the 10th and 11th it was mostly bellow 19. I naively, tought that things were then settling down, but yesterday and today nubers are on the high side again. Is that a bounce?

    If so, how do we ever know if it is a bounce versus all of a sudden the dose not being right?

    Thanks for your patience!
     
  66. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, that is a bounce.
     
  67. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Bounces can last up to three days. It's one of the most frustrating things about them, and about FD!!!
     
  68. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    @Nan & Amber (GA) @Deb & Wink

    I'm wondering if it is time to increase Hercule's dose to 0.75? We have been on 0.5 for 8 days now. I did a detailed data collection today and he hasn't hit bellow 13 in the last 4 days.

    What do you think?
     
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  69. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Hmmm... He might be ready for an increase, but I'm a little worried about the blue (7.4/133) AMPS you got the other day. He probably went lower that night (no tests) and was coming up by that point; now he's likely still in his bounce phase.

    I don't know that I'd increase just yet, based on that. I'd like to see you wait out the bounce for another day or two, and make sure to get some nighttime tests in to see if you catch him dropping then. On the other hand, eight days is a long time on one dose. Also, I'm not as familar with Prozinc as some other users so I might be missing some subtleties; let's see what Deb has to say about this!
     
  70. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks Nan! That blue was weird. I doubled check with the alphatrack which gave 15.4, which is low but not blue-low. I'll keep going tonight.

    Question: is one single dip into low numbers enough to lead to a bounce? I ask, because even before that blue event it has been quite on the high side...
     
  71. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Ah, so that blue might not have been a "true" reading. Hmmm.... I still might hold off until at least tomorrow, though.

    Yes, one dip into low (or "low") numbers is enough to trigger a bounce. Even just going down fast (but not going low) can be enough. He has been high a lot but again, you're missing a lot of data in the night time, you don't really know what he's been getting up to in the wee hours...
     
  72. KyraCat

    KyraCat Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2020
    Hey @Hercule's mum

    I just came to have a nosey at your spreadsheet and it looks like we are in the same boat again! Kyra is barely eating too!

    I hope you are both getting on OK and his appetite picks up soon xxx
     
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  73. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Hello @KyraCat ! I'm glad you did, because I am awing and humming about what to do with hercs dose, and wanted to find Kyra's SS for some ideas :)

    They do seem to be in a very similar pattern, indeed. Pinks and some yellows mostly..... What do we do with this? Is good that they are not bouncing to reds and blacks! But they are probably running higher then ideal, I think? What are your plans?

    I have purchased U100 syringes with the hope of better managing fine dosing, and was thinking about moving to 0.4U...
     
  74. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    He found the bag of his freeze dried treats, and gobble the whole thing up (including some plastic bits).... so it seems like his apetite is back....
     
  75. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Ya think? hahahaha Hope the plastic doesnt cause a problem. Zoe has done the same twice (yeahhh I knooow second one was on me) but she never had a problem with the "bag" she ate getting to her nummies.:rolleyes:
     
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  76. KyraCat

    KyraCat Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2020
    Aww yay! glad his appetite is back!! He must have been hungry to get through the plastic too!!! I can get Kyra to eat chicken so I am trying to mix it in with this Feringa food but he is really turning his nose up at that at the moment. Typically I just bought 12 of the big cans all in one flavour - the flavour he was wolfing down last week :banghead::banghead::banghead: Got him in at the vets tonight for a check up, just to be safe. That means I'll be seeing another black on his chart tonight - but that's OK I can explain that one to myself haha!

    In other news his sister is currently eating enough for several dozen cats :joyful:

    With regards to his dose I'm keeping him at 2.25 until Sunday AM when it looks like he will be due an increase to 2.5. I just want him eating properly again before then so I know it's safe. It's a tight rope to not keep them on the wrong dose for too long but to not up it when their food intake probably isnt where it should be. I think a last minute dash to Pets at Home may be in order to stock up on more food that he can refuse to eat HAHA....!

    Good luck to you with the .4 I struggle getting a .25 measure on the syringes I use. You are doing so well you seem to be well ahead of us for getting the good numbers - Keep it up :)
     
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  77. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Sounds very sensible! Fingers crossed he will eat more consistently

    I am sorry he is giving you trouble with the food! Hercs usually will eat anything, so I was urprised he turned his nose this week... but I chacked whether his buddy would eat, and she also turnd her nose.... so maybe there was something wrong? it was the fering veal and broccoli..... opened a new can and they both ate ok?!

    Well, me too! That is why I got the U100. Every half unit mark on a U100 = .2 units of a u40 insulin (if that makes sense). I find the new syringes don't slide as well as the official prozinc.... so not 100% reccomending, but as small error in a U100 syringe is still a smaller error than in a U40 (I think?)
     
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  78. KyraCat

    KyraCat Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2020
    Ah that's good that they both turned their noses up! Good sign the food wasn't up to it's usual standards. We'll get there with Kyra I just think (hope and pray) it is that typical FD thing of getting 2 steps ahead and then dropping 3 steps back...

    The syringes I use can be a little stiff when I need to get a .25 measure. I found that, before putting any insulin in the syringe I pull the plunger down then push it back up to the top again. Then I put it in to the vial and pull the insulin down. That seems to make the slider move a bit easier for me.

    I'll have to trust you on the maths of all of that haha! Luckily someone shared a carb calculator on here, I think last week, because there was no way my little brain was ever gonna figure out carb content :D
     
  79. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    THATS the dance!
     
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  80. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    You can get variations between batches of the same brand/variety. If your little ones won't eat them, a local cat shelter might appreciate their cast-offs. :)


    That's the trick! Sometimes moving the plunger back and forth a few times is needed. It spreads the lubricant along the inside of the syringe barrel.


    Mogs
    .
     
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