Completely flat curve (low 100s) after LC wet food change???

Harukyo

Harukyo

Member Since 2019
Hello again everyone!

I'm back and wondering what's going on with Kyo's levels. We switch to LC wet food 2 days ago 6/2/19 and Kyos levels have been coming down quite a bit to the point where I had to skip a shot that night. I was recommended to drop the dose by .25 units to try and get two shots in per day, however I did a complete curve yesterday and his numbers remained in the low blue range. Lowest being 110 @ +6 after PMPS. I got some rest, woke up this morning and tested at our usual time and his levels read 113. Okay, so that's definitely a no shoot number for us. I went ahead and gave her her food (she was pretty hungry) and now I'm trying to figure out my next steps. Reduce the dose by another .25u? (kyo would then receive 1u) Only shoot if she goes back into our shoot range? (I believe that number is 150 and above).

Her completely flat curve has me scratching my head...I expected maybe a bounce but not completely flat...what the heck cat?? :facepalm::rolleyes:
 
Hi Harukyo - the flat curve, in relatively healthy numbers, means that Kyo is getting a dose that is good for her right now. It's nothing to worry about. I would be curious how she would have done with a small dose today. She might have just kept running nice and flat. I wouldn't try it if you were going to be out of the house, but I think you might consider trying a small dose if she does this again (and if you'll be around to monitor), and see how she does with it. For now though, I'd say see what her PS is tonight. If it's still blue, but in the mid-range, then try 1u. If she's back to yellow, I'd stay with 1.25u. It didn't really look like too much insulin for her.
 
Sounds good! I really wanted to get a third cycle with the 1.25 but I don't have enough data as to how her body processes the insulin at those low numbers. In another thread I made on the main forum, someone said that I might not be able to shoot low numbers on ProZinc so I was just being extra cautious skipping this morning and posted here in the ProZinc forum. I imagine she will read mid 100s to low 200s tonight because of the skip, but in the event she doesn't and the PMPS reads low 110s or when this happens again in the future, instead of skipping I should lower the dose by .25 and see how she responds? I hope I'm understanding that correctly. I really appreciate the input! @Djamila and thanks for the bump! @Idjit's mom
 
I think Bron may have explained this the other night, but another thing you can/should do (assuming you don’t have to run out of the house for work or something) is to stall *without* feeding for 20-30 minutes and then retest to see if the BG is coming up. If it is, that can give you assurance that the previous dose is wearing off, and it’s okay to shoot. (Whether the full dose or not depends on what the numbers are, of course.). ProZinc allows for up to one hour leeway in shot times, so stalling can be a good tactic if you get a lower than comfortable preshot number again.

As for deciding by how much to lower the dose (if that’s what you would decide to do in any given situation), I think it’s sometimes better to think about it as a percentage of the “usual” dose, and in the context of whatever the preshot number is, than as a fixed .25 unit reduction. It’s true we increase in those increments, but reductions on a low preshot are, unfortunately, sometimes more nuanced situations. :rolleyes:
 
@Jenna Josie Darn, I see. I'm always hoping theres a straight forward method, but I need to get a grip on how thats not always the case. I'll update with what our PMPS levels are and what I've decided to do from there. We quit DM dry cold turkey (Kyo didn't have any problem with that, she like the wet food luckily!) and so I wasn't wanting to do any insulin adjustments, but that 1.25u seemed to be doing good for her. I get very nervous about the lower levels even though thats what I'm trying to work towards in the first place! :facepalm: I'll try to stop being a worry wart and stick with the dosing.
 
Just to clarify, I don't think you should have stuck with the full dose. At least not right now. I would suggest trying a reduced dose, collecting data, and seeing what happens. Then you can use that to decide next time. It may turn out that Kyo can take the full dose on lower numbers, but she hasn't been diabetic for very long, so more likely she would need less than the full dose, but more than zero. How's that for specific? ;)
 
Haha thank you! That definitely clears up some of the foggy details that I didn't even know I needed! PMPS tonight read 326mg/dL, woah! Will be doing the 1.25u and trying to stick with it!


Edit: Sticking with it as in trying to get in two shots per day I meant, not the specific dose.
 
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Yes, we are in vigorous agreement, Djamila! ;) Lowering by .25 from 1.25 is very different from lowering .25 from, say, 2 units. It’s not the .25 that’s magical in and of itself but rather the .25 in relation to the “normal” dose and in the context of the PS.

Sorry if I confused things. (Really, FD is confusing enough on its own, lol!)
 
Also wanted to mention my game plan after getting so much awesome advice and help. So:

Shes high now (326 PMPS) because I skipped the shot in the AM. I gave her 1.25u tonight and ill be testing to make sure shes goes back to her regular levels (around the flat mid to low 100s). After that if she ever reads low 100s PS, ill stall and see which direction its heading in and if shes still low ill shoot 1u and try that for a few cycles. If shes more mid 100s to low 200s, ill keep the 1.25 dose going until we reach the low 100s again.

I'm on summer break from college right now so I have all the time in the world to do any mid testing or overnight testing (woo!). I can't believe I went so long without home testing, I'm so glad I have you guys and the forum to keep me knowledgeable and in control!
 
@Jenna Josie No actually, that makes a lot of sense! I've been reading over that statement for a little bit and it finally clicked in my head when I came back and read it again.
 
Oookay, I didn't expect a drop this big. Shes at 57mg/dL @ +3 which looks to be about peak for her nadir. Should I begin curbing with some more of her wet food *I also have the gravy lovers FF now and temptations treats that she use to love in my hypo kit. I will be testing again at +4 and definitely +5 to watch wheres shes going. I just didn't expect her to go from 326 all the way to 57 in 3 hours.
 
Hard to say. Getting rid of the dry makes a difference. Cycles are often different to each other but that is a big drop so you need to keep testing and don’t be complacent. Make sure you have some high carb and honey or karo there if needed. We don’t want her dropping too much further.
 
Gotcha. I got the Karo syrup and various types of high carb foods ready if needed. She didn't eat her full tablespoon of wet food unfortunately.
 
No physical signs yet, but she definitely smelled the temptations treat bag opening and shes looking for it lol
 
Okie dokie she just finished eating some more FF gravy lovers without the Karo. Will update in another 30 minutes! Thank you for standing by me Bron, you have been my rock throughout this process. :bookworm:
 
Harukyo said:
Okie dokie she just finished eating some more FF gravy lovers without the Karo. Will update in another 30 minutes! Thank you for standing by me Bron, you have been my rock throughout this process. :bookworm:
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I’m glad she ate. We don’t want to give her too much in case we want to get her to eat more later.
Very happy to help. I know how scary it is the first few times.
But we should never get complacent with low numbers no matter what because they can be deadly if they drop too low. That’s why testing is so good. You can be in control.
You are doing a great job with her
 
No, I'll try that for this test. I think it was because I tried poking her while she was trying to nap against the wall upside down lol. I apologized to her as I had to pick her up and bring her to a better light source.
 
oh okay cool! I'll note it as such from now on. I'll hold off on the feeding and test again in 30 minutes. Ugh that was a rough one. I mean we're still not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light! And thank you :arghh: I held it together as best as I could. But also now WHAT the HECK. HAPPENED. What did I do to cause this craziness?! First her levels are great and flat and then I skip the morning shot and she goes up to 326 and then THIS?! Should I be starting over at 1u??
 
Harukyo said:
oh okay cool! I'll note it as such from now on. I'll hold off on the feeding and test again in 30 minutes. Ugh that was a rough one. I mean we're still not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light! And thank you :arghh: I held it together as best as I could. But also now WHAT the HECK. HAPPENED. What did I do to cause this craziness?! First her levels are great and flat and then I skip the morning shot and she goes up to 326 and then THIS?! Should I be starting over at 1u??
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Can you write in the remarks column when you fed all the food eg + 4 fed hc and karo. It is helpful for us and great for you to look back on.
You held it together very well. The first time I got a very low dropping number with Sheba, which was just not responding to food, and it was pre forum days, so I was on my own.... it was 2 am and I had the whole house awake ( my daughter to move her car out of the driveway and my husband to drive me to the ER. Fortunately Sheba finally responded so I sent them all back to bed but I have never forgotten that!!:p:eek:
I have not used Prozinc so I will tag @Djamila for you. But if she doesn’t get back to you by AMPS I would reduce to 0.75 units because Kyo took quite a while to get her up to safe numbers.
 
Yes! I will make sure to note down all of what happened tonight in my spreadsheet now that I can relax a little. And why do all the emergencies have to happen at night when the vet is closed?! I'm telling you man, I'm so thankful that this forum has come so far. I have become so passionate about FD ever since I got the diagnosis and found so little info on it until coming here. I hope to stick around for a long while and pay it forward once I am experienced enough to help other people, for now I'll have to set up a "keep the lights on" donation because I have to be able to give back somehow. And good to know for the AMPS! But yes I'll keep an eye out for djamila and see what she says about the ProZinc.
 
Emergencies always happen at night when the vet is closed. Same with human kids! And yes this forum is a huge blessing for all the FD kitties of this world who are lucky enough to have a bean who has found the site.
I live in Australia so try and come on when the rest of the world is asleep as their night is my afternoon/ evening. I am paying it forward for all the help I got when Sheba and I first arrived here.
You will learn a huge amount from looking after Kyo and one day be able to help others. In the meantime even saying hi to others on the forum gives support and you will find you will make friends. I have made some great friends here. Most have lost their kitties now ( from other things not FD ) but we are still friends.
 
Yeah! I should watch for more newbies like myself who find this forum and welcome them and try to ease them into the process. I saw a thread in the thinktank about how sometimes its hard for them to stick around. Hopefully if they hear from other new people they will feel less alone.
 
Haha, that's a good way to lighten the mood. Kyo and I are both ready to hit the pillows for some well deserved cat naps! All my love goes out to you for all that you've done for us. Ill be back for a morning check-in with djamila. Goodnight Bron! :)
 
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