? Switching to Prozinc - a couple general questions

Panic

Panic

Very Active Member
Hello PZI group! Panic and I finally got the okay to switch over to Prozinc!

I will be reading the Intro sticky shortly but I have a couple of questions might not be covered on there specific to my cat that I would like to get answered before her insulin arrives.

Panic is currently 5.6 lbs, she is on 4u of Vetsulin twice a day. You can see how high her SS is. She was previously on 5u of NPH twice a day with no effect before we switched to Vetsulin. Today I got approval to switch her to a longer-lasting insulin. Here are my questions!

1) How early do you feed meals before shooting? (Vetsulin must have food on board already 20-30 min prior, is it the same for Prozinc?)

2) How often do you feed throughout the day?

3) Considering she is on 4u of Vetsulin, what should her ideal starting dose be? (Vet is letting me do the first curve and said she would have the starting dose on her prescription but I know she tends to jump up multiple units at a time so I just want opinions from PZI users)

4) How much safe "wiggle" room does Prozinc have with shooting early/late?
 
Howdy!
1) Some will give prozinc while the cat is eating, although you can only do this if you are certain that she'll actually eat. With Jack, I always waited until he was finished eating and grooming, as that's when he tolerated it best. In fact, he didn't mind at all as long as he was finished his routine. But you don't need to wait.
2) I feed Jack morning and night, with a little snack in between. I also leave a little extra down for grazing. How often you feed is your judgement call, but I think BG is more stable with food on board.
3) I'm going to leave the advising up to more experienced members. I've been following Panic's story, so I am afraid to make any suggestions.
4) I love this about prozinc! It's a little more forgiving than some other insulin. Every 12 hours is ideal, in a perfect world without hiccups. But prozinc allows for one hour early or one hour late, if need be.

Welcome to the Prozinc forum! I'll be following along to see how Panic is doing.
 
Hi Carolyn! Thanks so much for answering all the questions you could - I'm excited at the thought of not having to wait a whole half hour, kinda cuts down my hectic morning a bit x3 Do you feed during the night as well?

Ah that's wonderful about the one hour wiggle room! Not that we ever plan to use it, but life happens ;)

Thank you so much for everything, wouldn't it be wonderful if Panic had a happy ending like Jack <3
 
I don't feed them during the night, but I always put down a little extra food for them to graze on for a bit. It's usually gone in an hour or so. And if it's early when they eat dinner, I'll give them a little snack right before going to bed. Their snack is really just their canned food, but a lot less than I give them at their meal times.
It would be wonderful if Panic's story has a happy ending! Ultimately, we all want our sugar babies off the juice. But it will be so nice just to see Panic's BG numbers going down!
 
Hi Panic's mama, and welcome!

I have to be honest, I'm not really comfortable advising on the dose either. Between the meter switch and the missing data from the PM cycle (very few pre-shots and virtually no mid-cycle data), I can't tell if the current dose on vetsulin is too much or too little. And I can't compare this week's data to last week's because of the meter change. Are there any particular people who have been helping you with the vetsulin? If so, we can try to connect and see what their thoughts are.
 
Hi Djamila! Thank you!

That's okay, I totally understand! I've just got so many comments about how high an amount 4u is and the speculation that she's bouncing that I'm hesitant to see how high she should be switching... I know I can just wait to see what my vet prescribes though. @CandyH and Catcat and I have been chatting about Vetsulin but honestly she's the only one I've seen around who's active, there's just not too many cats on Vetsulin around here!

What times should I be getting readings to help fill in the gaps? Any +hours in particular? Best night reading times? Sorry about the meter change; I ran out of Relion strips and had just got my Alphatrak in the mail - trying to use up the strips before they expire soon.

@Daddy Jack's Mommy Thanks for telling me! That's good to know, I'm having a hard time getting Panic her night meals so if it's not critical that will help out haha. Lower BG numbers would make my day honestly.
 
Panic said:
I'm having a hard time getting Panic her night meals so if it's not critical that will help out haha
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If you want to feed her at night, you can always try leaving down some frozen canned food for her to munch on once it thaws. I've never done it, but some other members here do.
 
Daddy Jack's Mommy said:
If you want to feed her at night, you can always try leaving down some frozen canned food for her to munch on once it thaws. I've never done it, but some other members here do.
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Wish it were that simple! It's actually an issue with the feeder - tried keeping her in my room during the night with the feeder but she cries to be let out. Family doesn't want her roaming throughout the house at night but putting it outside isn't an option because ants, attracting stray animals, and no weather-proof area to keep it. :(
 
Oh, no need to apologize about the switch! Sometimes we have to make a change, it's just the timing makes it tricky with also changing the insulin. That's just how life works out sometimes though! :bighug:

4u is a high dose, but cats need what they need, so if that's what she needs, I'm afraid to tell you to lower it because that would increase the risk of developing ketones. If that's too high of a dose though, it could be the cause of the reds and blacks. It's a bit of a puzzle at this point. I wish I could have seen her progression from her starting dose on up.

Were you testing from the beginning? Or did you just start recently (and don't feel badly if it's recent!).

I will tell you to please not listen to your vet if s/he suggests starting at 1u. I think going back that far would be a bad idea.
 
Oh hang on....I just saw your message come through. Is Panic an outdoor cat that wanders during the night?
 
Panic said:
CandyH and Catcat[/USER] and I have been chatting about Vetsulin but honestly she's the only one I've seen around who's active, there's just not too many cats on Vetsulin around here!
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read, read, read the yellow stickies, the "intro to PZI" -- I'm so happy you will be starting here, obviously Vetsulin wasn't lasting long enough, was giving you a roller coaster ride

I'm a lousy person to talk about dose, I can't even figure out my own -- since I don't remember your earlier days, hard to comment on dose you were on recently, gut feeling is that it was too high, but possibly that's only because I am shooting 1/4 of what you have been -- don't take words as gospel, more like tabloid at supermarket

I have a feeling you are going to get a lot of help over here :bighug::bighug::bighug::joyful:
 
That makes me feel better, thank you! What I have on the SS is all the testing I've done, I only got the courage to start testing a couple weeks ago. The only thing missing from the SS is her curves from when she was on NPH.

She is no longer on steroids, long story short I was using a traveling vet to help treat her flea allergy, he never told me not to use it for too long and I didn't ask or realize it was a steroid so personally I suspect her being off and on that for years had something to do with it.

Yes, she sleeps outside at night! She doesn't go far however, she sticks by the door in hopes I'll tell her to come in for food xD Does that help any?
 
So being off steroids is good. How is her flea allergy though? Is she doing okay?

Being out at night is less good. Cats have an uncanny ability to sneak off and find kibble on someone's back porch. That may be a factor as we go forward. If her numbers don't start to budge, I would wonder if she isn't getting into some high carb food while she's out there. Even just a couple of pieces can have a huge impact.

Has the Prozinc arrived yet? I think my hunch at this point might be to start close to your current dose, but don't start until you're going to have a couple of days at home to monitor. Any mid-cycle (between +4 and +7) tests you can get between now and getting the prozinc will be helpful. I want to see if there are any lower numbers hiding in between those high PS numbers that might indicate the insulin response or possible bouncing.

As far as your earlier question about testing. You want to get a PS test before every shot (you've done a great job the past few days!). Then for the PM cycle, how many hours are there between giving the shot and your usual bedtime? You want to get a test as late into the PM cycle as you can, without making yourself stay up and get sleep deprived. So you take a test right before you turn off the light to go to sleep. If you shoot right at bedtime, we can talk about other options.
 
Yes, she's done with steroids forever, I'm not allowing it anymore. Her flea allergy is under control, she is on a flea pill year-round that has really cleared her skin up. On all the past flea meds I've tried she still ended up with bumps under her chin and base of her tail, but I haven't felt any in over a year now.

That makes sense. My grandparents beside us are the only ones on our road who own cats, and they don't feed theirs outside ever. I have a multi-cat household so the other cats do get some dry food, I'm pretty vigorous about making sure it's all cleaned up before she goes back out but I wouldn't say I don't miss pieces that fall between the porch boards. I will see what I can do about that! She has been snubbing her nose to dry for quite a while now at least.

I just ordered it yesterday and the vet is supposed to approve the prescription today, so it probably won't be in until Monday maybe? Luckily I am off today and tomorrow so I will try to get those +4 and +7 numbers in!

The PMPS test I do around 9PM, shot at 9:30PM. I usually can't keep my eyes open pass 11:00-12:30 so I go to bed somewhere between then.
 
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Our sneaky thieves are not above eating dog food if any of your neighbors might have a dog with an outside food bowl. Sugar cats are like carb magnets. Or maybe from under the porch like you suggested. It's like they have magical radar. Although if she's snubbing her nose at the kibble around her, that is a good sign that it may not be that at all.

As for the tests, since you won't have to wait 30 minutes, you could shoot closer to 9pm, and then it sounds like most nights you could get a +2, and sometimes as late as a +3. Honestly anything you can get during that cycle is helpful. The other way to look at it is you could grab a test as soon as you wake up, so maybe around +9 or +10 depending on when you wake up. That can help too. The PM cycle is hard for all of us. Sleep is important too!

I don't know how much your vet charges, but Chewy sells Prozinc for around $115 which is much less than my vet sells it. Just in case you also might have an expensive vet.

Glad to hear the flea allergy is so much better! That's great that you were able to find a better treatment. :)
 
Oh yes, I have a little wiener dog whose food she WILL try to get into, but it's rarely left out because I'm onto her and her sneaky ways! She is afraid of all the other dogs around though so she won't go near any of their bowls.

I will try and get some of those later night tests in like you suggested! I did manage to get her a +4 and +7 today, they're not great numbers though. :/ Red and black all day.

Oh yes, I did order from Chewy actually! :D I poked around to see where most of the FD members get theirs. My vet only sells Vetsulin I think, so I was able to get her to approve that prescription today. How much does your vet sell it for, out of curiosity?

Yes indeed! A few weeks ago during a curve the vet let me know they found a tick on her (yikes! how did I miss that) and asked if she was on a tick prevention and I said no. They wanted to put her on Revelation Plus which was flea + tick preventative but it looks like a topical medication and they just don't keep the fleas off her like the oral medication does so I've been stalling about getting it. :/ I'd hate to start all over with her flea problems >.<
 
Panic said:
How much does your vet sell it for, out of curiosity?
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$170. Can you believe it?!?! Thank Bastet that Chewy started selling it!

Ugh about the tick. That's quite a dilemma. Ticks are so dangerous, but I completely understand wanting to avoid the flea issue. Were the topicals you used before prescription strength, or over the counter?
 
$170!! What a mark-up! Uh yeah I'm awfully glad Chewy sells it now LOL.

Oh shoot I'm trying to remember the ones I tried...I definitely tried Hartz (the cheap $5 kind from the grocery store, it was all I could afford at the time so I tried!), and Frontline, which works a few days and then it must have wiped off since it's topical. Maybe a couple others but I can't remember. I should poke around and see if there's a separate tick prevention perhaps that I could use WITH the flea pill.
 
From what I've read, there is a big difference between the prescription and over the counter versions (both in price and in effectiveness). So if you haven't tried the prescription, it may be worth giving it a go. Too bad the pill doesn't cover both!

You could also post out on the main forum and ask about flea/tick control. I don't have much experience with fleas (thankfully) and have only ever used Revolution so I can't speak to all of the different options out there.
 
I would hope so haha, the flea pill I use for her and my dog are about $80. Good idea, I'll see if anyone else has suggestions! Revolution Plus is actually what she recommended to me.

Also oops back on track, I managed to get a +2.5 last night, wasn't great but she was lower this morning AMPS. I'll try to get another +4 and +7 tonight since I'm home all day!
 
I would aim for a couple of different hours today. Maybe a +5-6ish and a +8? Moving the testing times around helps to build the most complete picture of what's going on. And great job with the +2.5 last night. Looks like she had a food spike, and doesn't onset right away. That helps steer us towards switching at about the same dose, but let's see what she does today.

Were you able to order the prozinc yesterday?
 
Panic said:
Considering she is on 4u of Vetsulin, what should her ideal starting dose be? (Vet is letting me do the first curve and said she would have the starting dose on her prescription but I know she tends to jump up multiple units at a time so I just want opinions from PZI users)
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Hi Panic's mom,

- THIS IS NOT ADVICE, I am only sharing my experience -

I switched from vetsulin (caninsulin in the UK) on 15 May to prozinc, Galaxy was on 5 units of caninsulin then and the vet said start on 1.50 with the Prozinc. I was a bit overcautious and started him on 1 unit instead, following the SLGS advice on FDMB AND information gained from scientific etc articles, and raised every two cycle by fractions (as much as I could eyeball it). I do regret not having started him A LOT CLOSER TO what he was given of the caninsulin, I think today that I should have started the prozinc at at least 4 units per shot. To this day we haven't come out of the black and red ranges. I'm not trying to scare or shock you of course, but take a look at our SS, and here's hoping you guys find the right dose very quickly!
 
Djamila said:
I would aim for a couple of different hours today. Maybe a +5-6ish and a +8? Moving the testing times around helps to build the most complete picture of what's going on. And great job with the +2.5 last night. Looks like she had a food spike, and doesn't onset right away. That helps steer us towards switching at about the same dose, but let's see what she does today.

Were you able to order the prozinc yesterday?
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Am I right in the belief that her onset times and such are only reflective to the current insulin she's using? So she may not onset right away on Vetsulin but that may be different for Prozinc? Just curious how that works. I just updated her SS, got a +4 and a +6 today.

I think so! When I went to the vet yesterday morning (for another pet, unrelated) the vet tech mentioned Chewy had contacted them that morning for the prescription so they were going to do that. I haven't got an email yet saying it's shipped. I probably won't be able to start her until this upcoming Friday, I'm at work Tues-Thur next week. :/

Galaxy said:
Hi Panic's mom,

- THIS IS NOT ADVICE, I am only sharing my experience -

I switched from vetsulin (caninsulin in the UK) on 15 May to prozinc, Galaxy was on 5 units of caninsulin then and the vet said start on 1.50 with the Prozinc. I was a bit overcautious and started him on 1 unit instead, following the SLGS advice on FDMB AND information gained from scientific etc articles, and raised every two cycle by fractions (as much as I could eyeball it). I do regret not having started him A LOT CLOSER TO what he was given of the caninsulin, I think today that I should have started the prozinc at at least 4 units per shot. To this day we haven't come out of the black and red ranges. I'm not trying to scare or shock you of course, but take a look at our SS, and here's hoping you guys find the right dose very quickly!
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That is exactly why I'm asking before I start! My initial reaction was to start her at 1u but thought since she's on such a high amount now maybe I should check what others have done, so thank you SO much for sharing! Hopefully you can get Galaxy back on track too!
 
Panic said:
Am I right in the belief that her onset times and such are only reflective to the current insulin she's using?
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Yes

I think starting on the weekend could be good anyway since you'll likely be around more to keep an eye on things.
 
Update: Called Chewy.com because Prozinc still hasn't been marked as shipped. They told me my vet just yesterday approved/sent over the prescription and they'll be preparing it to be overnighted today so hopefully it'll be in tomorrow?

Panic has had a very bad numbers day, starting at AMPS all the way to now at +4 the Alphatrak is still reading HI (750+) :/
 
I'm so sorry to hear that Panic isn't feeling well! Your note on the SS saying she isn't eating well. Good job getting that ketone test done. I would suggest that you add as much water as she'll tolerate to her food, and keep getting ketone tests anytime she uses the litter box until her appetite returns.

I would also suggest you go ahead and increase your dose again, don't wait for the new shipment. See if a little bump might help out with those numbers. And hugs to you. I know this is hard. :bighug:
 
Oh geez! I just realized I gave dosing advice for vetsulin. I can't do that here in prozinc-land. If you post out on the Main forum, we can talk about it out there. Apologies for the oversight!
 
Mr Midnight is starting prozinc from lantus as of today. My vet told us he is one of the most insulin resistant cats she’s ever seen, my luck.
We started with vetsulin a year ago, then switched to lantus, now Prozinc because his numbers are just insane. All he eats is the fancy feast, and some canned tuna as a snack occasionally. Any tips aside from the above ones are appreciated!
 
No worries! I'm so ready to have her on Prozinc already haha. Her numbers were so high today I posted about them on the main health forum (link) and was actually recommended to lowering the dose which I think is a good idea, the vet definitely jumped the gun on upping her dose from 2 to 5 and back down to 4 when we introduced Vetsulin. I am trying her on 3u tonight to see how well she does (fingers crossed!).

Ooh and her appetite returned, she definitely didn't want to eat hardly at all on Sunday, even at dinnertime, but the next morning her appetite returned and it's been better since!
 
James Ross said:
Mr Midnight is starting prozinc from lantus as of today. My vet told us he is one of the most insulin resistant cats she’s ever seen, my luck.
We started with vetsulin a year ago, then switched to lantus, now Prozinc because his numbers are just insane. All he eats is the fancy feast, and some canned tuna as a snack occasionally. Any tips aside from the above ones are appreciated!
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Hi James, and welcome! I’m going to start a new thread for you (taking a liberty — I hope you don’t mind!) so that we can get eyes on your specific questions. Around here, we like to keep one thread focused on one cat since they can be confusing enough all on their own! :)
 
Prozinc finally arrived - vet has prescribed 2u twice a day. Does this sound like a safe number to start with considering the info I have on Panic?

Quick run-down of yesterday and today:
Yesterday, 4u as usual, went up and stayed in the 750s all day. Health forum recommended lowering dose to 3u.
Lowered last night to 3u, numbers dropped down to 420 by +4
Today's AMPS was 384, then 3u dose given. +2 number was 394.
Today's PMPS was 600+

I can actually start her on Prozinc tomorrow - I'll be home all day and Friday to monitor. ^-^
 
@MrWorfMen's Mom - Linda, what do you think about the starting dose? I wasn't seeing much in the data to indicate that 4u was too much, but since I'm not familiar with vetsulin, I'm not confident that I know how to read that data. I saw your recommendation to decrease to 3u.

Normally we say to come over to prozinc at the same dose the cat was on, but since we aren't sure about the appropriateness of that dose, I'm not sure what to say at this point.

I'm far more afraid of ketones than I am of hypos, so I hate to lower the dose on a cat in high numbers, and 2u sounds like a dangerous reduction. What do you think though?
 
I agree this is a bit of a puzzle. I suggested dropping the Vetsulin dose down to 3u from 4u to see if numbers improved at all given all those black readings that are indeed worrying. My suggestion was based on a number of things.
  • It looks like doses have been increased in full units so I had to wonder if the "best dose" had been bypassed.
  • A lower dose of 2u (albeit cat didn't eat as much that day) on the 9th may have been instrumental in lower BG. When dose was increased again, BG went back up.
  • On the 4th, despite a lovely start in yellow and Vetsulin's propensity to drop BG hard and fast, BG increased at +3 by 440 points (peak action for some cats and at least start of action for most). This phenomenon of higher BG when BG should be starting to drop has repeated a number of times since albeit not quite as dramatically.....most puzzling suggesting dose might be too high.
  • If the steroids have now totally cleared Panic's body and he pancreas in healing that too could mean less insulin is needed.
  • No history of DKA, Panic is being tested and has been negative up till now made me a little more comfortable suggesting trying a reduction.

I was pleased to see that numbers actually dropped last night on the reduction to 3u and gave Panic a pink pre-shot for a change. Not sure why the 600+ again tonight but suspect bounce from lower numbers. I think we could be looking at some glucose toxicity (4u dose held a long time), body defences fighting too much insulin as well as bouncing when BG does drop off even a bit.

Given monitoring can be done all day tomorrow and Friday, my best guess would be start ProZinc at 3u. I agree it's a bit scary to drop it too much with all those blacks in the picture but it strikes me odd that if this is steroid induced that the cat would need 5 units of insulin over such a short period of time and I'm not sure the dose isn't going to need to be reduced further. It's always harder backtracking that just raising gradually.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
it strikes me odd that if this is steroid induced that the cat would need 5 units of insulin over such a short period of time and I'm not sure the dose isn't going to need to be reduced further.
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I feel I need to clarify this in case I am spreading false suspicions, but I added the "possibly steroid-induced" bit to my signature when she was first diagnosed and it was something I thought might have been the cause because she had been on and off steroids for a LONG time, and the fact that she's just not overweight. She has not had steroids in her system for at LEAST a year, possibly two. I personally do not know if FD can be steroid-induced after such a long time off of steroids. I may need to remove it from my signature if my original suspicion is incorrect. I don't wish to make things more complicated than what they are.

I'd be happy to start at 3u tomorrow morning and see what numbers she throws and share here to hopefully get everyone's insight on how she does. Curious, how will I know when a reduction or increase is needed? Do I stick with the 3u for a few cycles no matter the numbers? If she bounces tomorrow does that mean auto-reduction? There's so many variables that can happen I don't know how anyone can make heads or tails of it!

Edit: I try to make sure I mention this enough, but thank you both for taking the time to read Panic's SS and offer advice to help her get better. It really means a lot to me that you're helping her <3
 
Ok not to worry. While that was a consideration it certainly wasn't the only one nor was it primary. What dose did the vet start Panic on in March and how were the dose increases done/how frequently and based on what data/reasoning?
 
I just wanted to make sure that wasn't some "critical information" thing since nothing was set in stone, just a suspicious cat owner looking for something to blame the FD on!

Um April 8th was her first insulin injection, she actually started on NPH. I'll condense it but if you need specifics just let me know!

April 8th - 0.5u NPH - AMPS 459 / 504 / 520 / 430 / 449
(sent home on 1u)

April 15th - 2u NPH - AMPS 556 / 662 / 608 / 640 / 617
(sent home on 4u)

April 30th - 5u NPH - AMPS 348 / 528 / 638 / 630 / 523
(vet recommended switching to 5u 3x daily, I requested different insulin instead, sent home on 5u)

The rest of the information I have, which is Vetsulin introduction onward, is in her SS.
 
As far as reasoning, I think my vet was really just trying to see some low numbers for once. I daresay I don't think my vet had too much experience with cats...when I asked about possible remission when she was first diagnosed and I was researching FD she said it was next to impossible and that in all her years as a vet she's only ever had one cat hit remission. She also at first wouldn't feed Panic the FF I brought to her curve and said she wouldn't get regulated on it, only Purina DM (specifically dry) and only after I showed her Dr. Pierson's catinfo chart did she take a step back and really do some research about FD, which I greatly appreciated.
 
OMG! WOW! Ok now I am even more convinced the 4u was too much and 3u might still be too high.
Panic said:
that in all her years as a vet she's only ever had one cat hit remission.
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No small wonder when she doubles doses like that.....from 2 to 4units in one increase. And to even consider 5u 3 times a day with those inverted curves would have been disastrous IMHO.
Cats at the vet are a recipe for elevated numbers. Too much insulin can look just like too little which all too often leads to the vet prescribing more and more insulin with no results other than continuing high BG and sometimes worsening BG.
Vets don't get a lot of training in diabetes and what they do get covers numerous species. Then of course they don't necessarily have that many feline diabetics in their practice and if they have dogs, they often try to treat felines the same way which just doesn't work. Vet may be fine for everything else but this is a hands on type of situation and too many vets seem to think they can control things properly with in office curves and it backfires.
 
*nods* I certainly don't fault my vet for anything, vets have to be general doctors for everything that walks into their clinic, they certainly don't have time to be specialists in everything. I know for sure she has a diabetic dog patient but I kinda got the vibe that Panic is her only feline right now (it's a rather small clinic in the middle of no where). In fact it was only when the little ah...polite argument over the Fancy Feast ensued that we started getting somewhere. She had me send her the "chart I got my information from" and said she would read over it during the day. When I went in to pick her up at the end of the day the vet came in with a pile of papers and a laptop with the cat info chart pulled up. She said she was on the phone all day with other veterinarians and nutritionists asking about food and she admitted to me she had "learned a lot". So FF was in the clear and it was THEN she told me after doing more research it seemed like Lantus and Prozinc were better options for cats (indicating maybe she didn't know that already?).

OH! And another thing, all of those curves done on NPH were with Purina DM dry or Savory Selects. The first curve done with Fancy Feast was when she was on 5u Vetsulin. I had dropped off Fancy Feast with her for that first Vetsulin curve but she used Savory Selects instead.

Do you still stand by the 3u starting dose for tomorrow?
 
HMMMMM! I'm not sure what to tell you. Purina DM dry and Savory Selects are extremely high carb so that food change alone would mean less insulin required and with no ketones/DKA I now wonder if dropping back to 2u might be the best move. I'd really like to have Djamilla see all this extra info and provide her opinion on this as she has a lot more experience with ProZinc than I do. She often is online in the mornings so let's see what she thinks.
@Djamila your thoughts?
 
I hesitantly started her on 2u this morning since we weren't sure. I'll try to record the food she ate at what time too. AMPS was 524 on ReliOn Prime.
 
Sounds good. Make sure to keep testing Panic for ketones while you try to establish a good dose given how high her numbers are right now. I'd grab a test at +3 and see what she is doing (staying flat, dropping or up). Her nadir (lowest point in cycle) with ProZinc will likely fall within the +4 to +7 post shot period and while pre-shot tests tell you it's safe to give insulin, we need to know how low the dose is pushing BG so depending on what she does at +3, you can decide when to test next. I'm thinking probably about +5 unless she is dropping a lot.
 
I was going to try to do every 2 hours - I could test her now (at +1) and do the +3, +5, and +7 if that sounds like a good plan. :)
I'll see if I can catch her peeing today and test too~
 
Every 2 hours would be fine but might be a bit of overkill for the first day. I'd skip the +1 as there is food influence there so I doubt you'll see much if any change and BG might even be a tad higher. I like the +3,5,7 idea but if there is a large drop (100 point or more) at +3 then I'd grab a +4 to see if she has slowed down or is continuing to drop quickly.
 
I agree that a curve on the first day probably isn't worth it. Although I'd get a couple of tests just to see. I think since there is so much unknown here, 2u is a good dose to start on. Although please keep testing for ketones, add as much extra water as Panic will allow to the food, and if she goes off her food, head straight to the vet for a blood ketone test.

We'll need to give her a few days to get used to the new insulin before we do much, but let's stay vigilant and get moving with those increases if we don't see some action. Hopefully though, the entire problem has been overdosing and we'll see some better numbers soon!
 
Oops just got a +1 right before seeing this - not that it hurts. +1 was 490, just a bit lower than AMPS.

Sounds good, thanks! ^-^
 
Djamila said:
I agree that a curve on the first day probably isn't worth it.
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Really? I would have thought it'd be important to know what's happening the whole time during the first introduction, could you explain why otherwise?
Also I meant to ask, what is the purpose of warm water added to their food concerning ketones?

I thought I was about to get a ketone test in but she ended up trying to pass stool...she was only able to get out one small firm piece. She's been drinking a good amount of water though.
 
Dehydration plays into the development of ketones so keeping kitty well hydrated helps to keep ketones at bay and if they develop at all, helps to flush them out of the system. Any chance she is constipated? That can raise BG. You could try adding some plain pumpkin (not pie filling) to her food to add more fibre along with adding water to her food. I also find leaving extra water bowls around away from food promotes more water intake.

It will take a few days for Panic to get used to the new insulin and right now the dose is still a big question. Once a better dose is established and you start to see some positive results, then a curve will be more enlightening. Personally though, I have never found curves nearly so helpful as daily random spot checks because kitty could be having a bad or good day.....bouncing or coming out of a bounce for instance making the results sometimes misleading. BG is not the same everyday.......it's the longer term picture that is most telling. Curves do however help a lot when you can't always get mid cycle testing done.:)
 
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