http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/5-7-silver-amps-76-pmps-349-4-349.195224/#post-2185881
Not green but I hope this means it was a short-lived bounce.
Not green but I hope this means it was a short-lived bounce.
5/8 Silver AMPS 157 PMPS 56 +2=140 +4=140 - reduction earned
- Thread starter Juliet
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carfurby (GA)
Member Since 2012
Nice start for Silver. 
How is he feeling now that he is recovering from the dental?
How is he feeling now that he is recovering from the dental?Absolutely fine. Apart from a touch of diarrhea which I'm presuming is caused by the AB? Dunno where that awful pink came from last night. Glad we are back in blues.Nice start for Silver.
LizzieInTexas
Member Since 2016
Very nice start
carfurby (GA)
Member Since 2012
That's good to hear. ABs can cause diarrhea. A lot of people give probiotics along with the AB to prevent this. I've used FortiFlora for that and this: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0053W995W/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
Yes I'm giving him Fortiflora once a day. Didn't prevent it but hoping it clears up fast as Silver uses the floor for his poos (on the puppy pad) but messy to clean up. Dunno why he stopped using the LB years ago - but at least on pad better than carpet!
Gill & George
Member Since 2015
It's of course your call Juliet but just because you don't like the advice doesn't mean it isn't the right advice. Perhaps that's why it keeps getting repeated.
He dropped low perhaps even lime green yesterday morning while you were out and he had no food to snack on, and the pink was a bounce?? That is a plausible explanation even if you don't like to think of it.
I've a lot on my plate at the moment Juliet, and perhaps that is why I am being more direct than others dare to be when commenting on your condo.
No worries if you don't want to heed the warnings and advice, but for Silvers sake I wanted to point the above out. I shan't be around your condo for a while, I have my own very poorly Kitty to take care of at the moment when I know that what I am saying is falling on deaf ears, why waste the little energy I have.
Take Care and I truly hope it all turns out just fine for Silver and you.
If you look at his patterns you will know he did not go to lime green. If you know his ss at all you will know he does inverted curves. I will ask for advice when I want it. I do not need advice on feeding what, when or how often so please stop.
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Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
All everyone is suggesting is that, now that Silver has had a dental, things - including patterns he has followed in the past - can change. And it seems like everyone is harping and not hearing you, but that's not the case. We are all familiar with your restrictions and also with how well you know Silver, so we wouldn't be repeating ourselves if we didn't think the message was so very important. And we are trying very hard to find ways that will work within your limitations.
However, it's very possible that having that bad tooth removed and having the infection addressed can cause Silver to suddenly race down the dosing ladder. You're already seeing some changes, with him giving you lower PS values. I'm sure you've seen what a dental did for Sandy's BK, and more recently Sean's Rufus. We want you to consider these possibilities out of genuine concern for you and Silver. I'm not going to lie, I was pretty scared for Silver yesterday when I saw he was green and didn't have anything to snack on for the day...and as ugly as the bounce was, I was relieved to see it when I checked in last night. The thing is, there is no guarantee that a kitty who goes low will always bounce into safety, even if that kitty has always done so in the past.
There is no need to respond to my comment here, but I do hope you consider it.
However, it's very possible that having that bad tooth removed and having the infection addressed can cause Silver to suddenly race down the dosing ladder. You're already seeing some changes, with him giving you lower PS values. I'm sure you've seen what a dental did for Sandy's BK, and more recently Sean's Rufus. We want you to consider these possibilities out of genuine concern for you and Silver. I'm not going to lie, I was pretty scared for Silver yesterday when I saw he was green and didn't have anything to snack on for the day...and as ugly as the bounce was, I was relieved to see it when I checked in last night. The thing is, there is no guarantee that a kitty who goes low will always bounce into safety, even if that kitty has always done so in the past.
There is no need to respond to my comment here, but I do hope you consider it.
Gill & George
Member Since 2015
Last thing I am going to say, Cats will change their Nadir, even though he most usually nadirs late (which you call a reverse curve) he won't always do so, just because you don't see it does not mean it is not happening.
I have looked at Silvers SS and there is more than one occasion where he has not nadired at pmps, and it seems that things are changing since the dental.
As an example, quick look at Bubba's SS a late nadir kitty, earned reductions as early as +3 and as late as amps. Even though he most often earned them late on in the cycle. You have seen that Silver is capable of nadiring at +6 he did it once, he will do it again.
Just be open to the possibility, and open to having to do something different to what you have been doing, that is all I am saying
You are not able to test often enough to know with any certainty what is going on with Silver. (this is not a criticism, just stating a fact), the dental often changes things for our kitties. Just try and give it some consideration, please.
I have looked at Silvers SS and there is more than one occasion where he has not nadired at pmps, and it seems that things are changing since the dental.
As an example, quick look at Bubba's SS a late nadir kitty, earned reductions as early as +3 and as late as amps. Even though he most often earned them late on in the cycle. You have seen that Silver is capable of nadiring at +6 he did it once, he will do it again.
Just be open to the possibility, and open to having to do something different to what you have been doing, that is all I am saying
You are not able to test often enough to know with any certainty what is going on with Silver. (this is not a criticism, just stating a fact), the dental often changes things for our kitties. Just try and give it some consideration, please.
Not sure what your point is @Gill & George @Amy&TrixieCat. I know nadirs can change. Never said they didn't or wouldn't. What I have said (many many times) and this will NOT change no matter what the circumstances are. I cannot and WILL not leave food out or shut Silver in another room. Please just get that message through.
Stacy & Asia
Member Since 2017
Juliet, we all know and understand you can’t and won’t leave food out. Nobody can force you to do anything and if it sounds like a broken record “leave food out” and you saying “no”, well it is, and I’m sure that frustrates you. Just please try to understand we all care for Silver and your well being. When Silver is not well, you are not well. Nobody wants to see anything bad happen to either of you. The messages are from care and concern, not to pick on you. So the info is here in your thread should you want or need it for the future and you can completely ignore it if you want to. Silver has had 2 close calls recently and we all just want him to continue on his path to healing and save you pain, frustration and more financial problems. Sometimes you see a big storm brewing and it may pass over and not be a big deal, but you still alert your neighbors and people you care about to make preparations and take cover. That’s all.
Hugs for you, Juliet. I know it seems like it’s a battle against you, but it’s not, I promise you it’s not, we are all on the same team here, team Silver and Juliet.
Thank you. Broken record is correct tho. It gets so frustrating I want to be done with this board. Sometimes it's just too much to have things rammed down your throat when the reasons why have been clearly stated. If people can quit with the broken record that would help me more.Juliet, we all know and understand you can’t and won’t leave food out. Nobody can force you to do anything and if it sounds like a broken record “leave food out” and you saying “no”, well it is, and I’m sure that frustrates you. Just please try to understand we all care for Silver and your well being. When Silver is not well, you are not well. Nobody wants to see anything bad happen to either of you. The messages are from care and concern, not to pick on you. So the info is here in your thread should you want or need it for the future and you can completely ignore it if you want to. Silver has had 2 close calls recently and we all just want him to continue on his path to healing and save you pain, frustration and more financial problems. Sometimes you see a big storm brewing and it may pass over and not be a big deal, but you still alert your neighbors and people you care about to make preparations and take cover. That’s all.
Hugs for you, Juliet. I know it seems like it’s a battle against you, but it’s not, I promise you it’s not, we are all on the same team here, team Silver and Juliet.
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Gill & George
Member Since 2015
Our point is that this is a very risky tactic, given the way things are changing since the dental, and because we know from many other cats that numbers can improve dramatically once they recover from a dental, and that perhaps it is worth revisiting some of the options, so that you are prepared to deal with a rapidly changing situation, which might see you facing tough dosing decisions and handling low numbers in the not to distant future.
We just want you to be prepared, and we just want to point out things that perhaps you don't see, because you are so close to the situation. Like
Screams he went low to me.
Yes we have got it, Juliet, you have F and blinded about it enough. It doesn't change the fact that given the current changing situation it is risky (just so you know). Believe it or not I do not come on here just, to quote you 'ram things down your throat'. Do with the info what you will, as I said before, if what you choose to do works, then great, I wish you well, but I would not forgive myself for not speaking up for what I believed to be true if something tragic happened. I want to be able to hold my hand on my heart and say, 'I tried my best to help this individual'
'You can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink'
Stop or I'll block you
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
The point, quite simply, is care and concern.
We are concerned that with the dental issue addressed and infection clearing, Silver is potentially playing a completely different ball game with how he may respond to insulin, and since you are gone at work all day, there are tools you can use while you are out that will help keep things in order for him.
No one is suggesting locking Silver up with food so Sasha won't eat it as a permanent solution, but it is something that should be considered on an as-need basis. You were able to do it for him last week when he needed to eat after coming home and it worked, proving it is a valuable tool to use if need be, because, like everything else in life, how he responds to insulin is not a guarantee. Being post-dental/post-infection, the game is different now, and if the bad tooth situation is what was keeping him stuck in yellows, it could change quickly. We just want you to be aware of that, because in our many years of experience with many, many cats here, we have witnessed it first-hand on quite a few occasions.
Broken record. You already said ALL that before. Heard you. Already responded. Quit. Got it?!?
Tracey&Jones (GA)
Member Since 2016
Nice blue start....I personally would take that number and run with it this morning.
AB tend to kill all bacteria even the good ones
. That will probably clear up as soon as the AB are done.
Continued vines for Silver that his infection clears up quickly and he can get back to work the juice properly.
AB tend to kill all bacteria even the good ones
. That will probably clear up as soon as the AB are done.Continued vines for Silver that his infection clears up quickly and he can get back to work the juice properly.
Thanks Tracey! Appreciate that comment. One of the few actual helpful ones today. You and @carfurby are so faithful in your support and advice.Nice blue start....I personally would take that number and run with it this morning.
AB tend to kill all bacteria even the good ones
Continued vines for Silver that his infection clears up quickly and he can get back to work the juice properly.
A couple of observations...
If you are not aware, there is a very narrow window for potassium values. If they fall too low, Silver's heart will not function properly. In fact, none of Silver's muscles will function properly but most importantly, hearts stop working if potassium values drop. They do not usually rise spontaneously, hence the need for supplementation. Just because Silver is recovering from DKA, etc., doesn't mean the potassium level is OK. I work with a lot of heart patients. They get their potassium levels monitored regularly since not having potassium levels in the normal range can be life threatening.
Re. diarrhea: I would not recommend Fortiflora to help with GI problems. It may entice a cat to eat but there are better options. For diarrhea, a better probiotic would be S. boulardi. Fortiflora does not contain a sufficient amount of probiotic to be beneficial.
If you are not aware, there is a very narrow window for potassium values. If they fall too low, Silver's heart will not function properly. In fact, none of Silver's muscles will function properly but most importantly, hearts stop working if potassium values drop. They do not usually rise spontaneously, hence the need for supplementation. Just because Silver is recovering from DKA, etc., doesn't mean the potassium level is OK. I work with a lot of heart patients. They get their potassium levels monitored regularly since not having potassium levels in the normal range can be life threatening.
Re. diarrhea: I would not recommend Fortiflora to help with GI problems. It may entice a cat to eat but there are better options. For diarrhea, a better probiotic would be S. boulardi. Fortiflora does not contain a sufficient amount of probiotic to be beneficial.
I’ve read hundreds and hundreds of SSs over the last eight years and while Silver may have an inverted curve here and there, it means nothing for him. It certainly doesn’t mean he can’t drop into lime green.
What do you think an inverted curve means?
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Thanks for this. I am continuing with the Fortiflora and fluids as per the vet's instructions last night.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
But, you have.
You did leave food out while you were at work less than a week ago because he wasn't doing well and you were scared. You recognized the problem and dealt with it. The difference is THIS time you're not recognizing the difference between the dangers of a cat not eating while recovering from DKA and a the dangers associated with shooting 5.25u on a 76/4.2 and leaving Silver alone for the day without any way of him saving himself (eating) if he were to drop too low. This is just as dangerous (maybe more so) and could be damaging or even fatal! Leaving food out has once again become a necessity.
Juliet, this is where the majority of comments made are coming from... to keep Silver safe. It's not "pick on Juliet" day. You're seeing members step up to share their numerous experiences and observations made based on many, many cats over a multitude of years. Give them a little credit for recognizing, identifying, and offering solutions for what can turn into a catastrophe... one that no one here wishes on you or anyone else. Understand this is coming from eyes and caring hearts that have seen much more than the insulin experience of just one cat. Think about the fact that there may be something to what they're saying... that they might be onto something to want to spend their free time explaining their thoughts to you.
I've said this before and I'll say it again...
You might have to run Silver in higher numbers than you'd like to see (low blues) if you want to keep him safe. Fast forward to today... now that DKA has recently reared it's ugly head not once, but twice... leaving food out for Silver has become a necessity to keep him well and safe. It'll be up to you as to how you go about accomplishing that. You've been given several suggestions. Figure out which one you can do. If you choose to ignore this advice and/or others... it's on you. You're Silver's guardian.
Stop it. Juliet, no one is driving you away. Let me remind you it was your attitude and choice of words that were instrumental in your removal from this board once before. The fact that your current user name was accepted when you re-registered is because of the overwhelming support this board gives to others. FYI: moderators rarely have permission to ban members. Those decisions come right from the top. Personally, I don't think it's in Silver's best interest for you to put yourself in that position again.
I'd like to personally thank every member who has spoken up on Silver's behalf... saying the hard stuff in light of all the resistance... just because it needs to be said in an attempt to keep Silver safe. You all are showing how much you care about both Silver and Juliet. I also appreciate how words have been chosen carefully and comments have been made respectfully... with explanations given for thoughts, observations, and suggestions. It takes a lot of time and effort out of our member's lives to carefully compose these "difficult to write" posts... posts written in hopes they are accepted in the spirit intended.
Thank you.
I did say that I left food out and shut him in and my landlord complained so I cannot do that again. Perhaps you missed that post.
I am happy to receive advice when I ask for it. I have never once said I was not prepared for Silver to be in higher numbers. The circumstances do not allow me to leave food out - that will never change - so higher numbers is fine. My vet says it's fine so long as I feed before each shot. I do that.
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Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Nope. Didn't miss it. Suggestions have been made. It's up to you to figure out how to proceed.
If only it were that simple! It would be remiss of any member who recognizes and identifies a potential problem to remain silent about it... especially a problem that has the potential of being life-threatening. Not going to happen. That's not how things work in a caring community.
Lol if it were caring why have these online strangers made me feel like crap all day ?
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Something you might want to give some thought to before responding any further?
Wishing you the best.
No further response necessary. These total strangers do not know me. Or my situation. Some do care and have been with me from the beginning. THOSE I respect and listen to. No one else. They know who they are.
Nice reduction for Silver.
I apologize to people in this condo for my comments today. I found out (online) today that my uncle killed himself. Needless to say, I could have been a little more patient in my comments or perhaps stayed off the board today. I totally understand if you want to walk away from Silver's condo. @Jill & Alex (GA) @Gill & George your comments were heard, if not reacted to very well. As I am sure you know by now - when I am under stress I lash out.
I will do my best for Silver as I always have. Needless to say, he seems to be fine, having likely gone into lime greens today. I do know Silver and Sasha very well over the past 12 years and if I left food out, they would scarf and barf. I do not have funds for a timed feeder and even if I did - I still have no clue who would eat it - Sasha tends to push Silver out the way these days. They are not microchipped so microchip meter would not work and my landlord has complained about the noise when I separated them. All I can do is what I did tonight - a BCS or no shot if I see a low green preshot. It doesnt matter how many times you say it or how many ways you say it, I can't change those facts and I am fully aware of the risks.
I apologize to people in this condo for my comments today. I found out (online) today that my uncle killed himself. Needless to say, I could have been a little more patient in my comments or perhaps stayed off the board today. I totally understand if you want to walk away from Silver's condo. @Jill & Alex (GA) @Gill & George your comments were heard, if not reacted to very well. As I am sure you know by now - when I am under stress I lash out.
I will do my best for Silver as I always have. Needless to say, he seems to be fine, having likely gone into lime greens today. I do know Silver and Sasha very well over the past 12 years and if I left food out, they would scarf and barf. I do not have funds for a timed feeder and even if I did - I still have no clue who would eat it - Sasha tends to push Silver out the way these days. They are not microchipped so microchip meter would not work and my landlord has complained about the noise when I separated them. All I can do is what I did tonight - a BCS or no shot if I see a low green preshot. It doesnt matter how many times you say it or how many ways you say it, I can't change those facts and I am fully aware of the risks.
Sean & Rufus
Member Since 2018
So sorry to hear about your uncle, Juliet. That is tragic news.
carfurby (GA)
Member Since 2012
I'm so sorry about your uncle. Sending prayers for you and your family.
Thank you and @carfurby - it has been a rough rough day that's for sure.
Sean & Rufus
Member Since 2018
I know you've had a rough time recently, I hope it gets better for you soon.
Mandy & Rex (GA)
Member Since 2017
The feeders do come with a rfid tag to put on their collar if they aren't microchipped. Does Silver wear a collar or would he?
Condolences about your uncle.
No, I tried that once as I wanted to see if he'd want to go outside on a leash - he scratched at his neck so bad I took it off again. Its okay. I will just do the BCS if needed. I think people think I like taking risks with Silver - if that was the case I wouldn't have worked so hard to get him out of DKA not once but twice.The feeders do come with a rfid tag to put on their collar if they aren't microchipped. Does Silver wear a collar or would he?
Condolences about your uncle.
LuanneP
Member Since 2017
Nice to see Silver earning reductions and I can imagine how worrisome it is leaving him for the day & not knowing. I'm lucky that I can run home at lunch but not everyone works that close to home. I'm sorry to hear about your uncle as well That's such a tragedy, my thoughts are with you.
That's such a tragedy, my thoughts are with you.Thank you LuanneNice to see Silver earning reductions and I can imagine how worrisome it is leaving him for the day & not knowing. I'm lucky that I can run home at lunch but not everyone works that close to home. I'm sorry to hear about your uncle as well
Bellasmom
Member Since 2018
I am so sorry for the loss of your uncle!
Whooooo hoooooo on the reduction Silver, you rock!
A lot of days for all us beans tend to be stressful, sometimes we just have to take it 1 day at a time and even some days are 1 minute at a time
Tracey&Jones (GA)
Member Since 2016
So sorry to hear about your uncle. It is tragic when a situation like that happens as there just doesn't seem to be an answer as to why.
Go Silver. I totally agree with the BCS and hopefully that drains the depot a bit.
Good going Silver!
Go Silver. I totally agree with the BCS and hopefully that drains the depot a bit.
Good going Silver!
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
I'm sorry for your loss, Juliet. Sometimes the bad stuff comes at us relentlessly.
So true.I'm sorry for your loss, Juliet. Sometimes the bad stuff comes at us relentlessly.
Silver is doing so well tho so I have to try and see the good stuff in the bad. He is getting good numbers too. I believe he will go OTJ one day.
rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
How long ago did you try the collar ?
Maybe he would be willing if you try again.
If so, I will buy you the feeder that would only open for Silver . ( the tag hangs on his collar that opens the feeder)
Sorry about your uncle, It's hard enough to lose family the normal way, and even harder when you don't know they are suffering.
Maybe he would be willing if you try again.
If so, I will buy you the feeder that would only open for Silver . ( the tag hangs on his collar that opens the feeder)
Sorry about your uncle, It's hard enough to lose family the normal way, and even harder when you don't know they are suffering.
CassAndGordy(GA)
Member Since 2016
I'll contribute too. That feeder has been a lifesaver in my household.
I'm sorry about your loss Juliet
I pm'd @rhiannon and shadow (GA) I'm okay for now. Thanks for your kind offer.I'll contribute too. That feeder has been a lifesaver in my household.
I'm sorry about your loss Juliet
Amanda & Shmee
Member Since 2018
Oh Juliet, that is such tragic news about your uncle. I am so sorry to hear this and I am sending a hug and vines your way. I feel so terrible.
PS - yay for reductions for both Shmee and Silver
I am happy we are on this post-dental journey together. I wish you both all the luck in the world!
PS - yay for reductions for both Shmee and Silver
I am happy we are on this post-dental journey together. I wish you both all the luck in the world!Thanks Amanda! Yes, Silver is heading down...so glad for Shmee too!Oh Juliet, that is such tragic news about your uncle. I am so sorry to hear this and I am sending a hug and vines your way. I feel so terrible.
PS - yay for reductions for both Shmee and Silver
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