? Nadir

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Booger's Mom

Booger's Mom

Member Since 2018
Booger's nadir was running at a good reading yesterday. A little lower for my comfort zone to be honest. I felt like since he was running close to 100 that it would only be a matter of time that he would go hypo. He didn't thank god. My question is, should I bump him back up to 2.5? This is what the vet told me to give him after her bumping him to 3units after his glucose curve on 3/9 and he was in the 300's the whole day. After his first hypo. she told me to take him down to 2.5. I am running out of Alphatrak strips and it's making me nervous. I went yesterday and bought more ReliOn strips. Though I know there is going to be a difference with the human meter, it makes me nervous not knowing what his real BG is. I do not have a choice at the moment as I can not afford to buy any more Alphatrak strips. I just bought two bottles and went through them in less than 2 weeks. This is all from me being the helicopter mom I am. I thought that he could go hypo at any moment. Which I know there is always that possibility but more likely near nadir. Now knowing that, I am only testing him before meals/shots and between +4 to +6 hours. Booger was supposed to go for another Glucose curve tomorrow, but I didn't want to stress him out again to where he will go hypo. His BG will be a lot higher there than it would be at home so I really do not see the point. I do have a Wellness Plan with the vet that covers the glucose curves but they always charge me additional for something. They didn't exactly explain the $30 charge last time. I am just going to wait until I get paid at the beginning of next month to get more alphatrak strips and do a glucose curve.
 
I definitely would not take him back to 2.5 right now. Your cat is going from 600 down to 100 and back up. That's some major bouncing. If anything I would have stuck with 2 for a while (at least a week) and see if bounce would subside. If you want to stick with 2.25 consistently that's OK as long as you can check the nadir. I saw you lowered the dose when the preshot was in the 300's.... If that happens again try sticking with your normal dose. It will hopefully be the start of lower preshots.
 
Booger was in the 2 and 3 hundreds today at nadir. Is that a sign that he is needing to now go from 2.25 units to 2.5 or should I do a glucose curve in the morning? Or could this just be a reaction to him not getting his insulin the night before (didn't go in :( he was fighting me) and I should just wait a few more cycles?
 
I answered on your other thread and said you could try 2.5 u. I think Boogie is a bouncy cat and the fast onset nature of Vetsulin might be triggering the big differences in PS to nadir BGs. Bouncing can happen if:
  • BG drops too low
  • BG drops too fast
  • BG drops to numbers that are lower than usual even if still too high.
 
Yeah I saw your other response. I thought I would post it both places as it relates to both posts. Do you think him bouncing has to do with him snacking on his food throughout the day? He doesnt eat very much of it at meal times so he snacks a few times throughout the day.
 
LovemyBoogie said:
Yeah I saw your other response. I thought I would post it both places as it relates to both posts. Do you think him bouncing has to do with him snacking on his food throughout the day? He doesnt eat very much of it at meal times so he snacks a few times throughout the day.
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The dry food could contribute to it. The DM dry is high-ish in carbs (14+%?). You can order samples of Young Again Zero or Dr. Elsey's low carb dry food online to see if these might work for him.
 
another option is to try three shots a day every 8 hours of a lower dose if you are home... it's a lot more work though. or try a longer acting insulin like prozinc or lantus.
 
JanetNJ said:
another option is to try three shots a day every 8 hours of a lower dose if you are home... it's a lot more work though. or try a longer acting insulin like prozinc or lantus.
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Knowing that the Vetsulin doesn't last as long as Lantus, I am surprised that the vet did not recommend 3 shots a day after his last glucose curve. I find it odd as well that when he is home, he is bouncing all over the place, but when he was at the vets doing the first Glucose curve, she made it sound like he was in the 300's consistently all day.
 
Boogers numbers were pretty good today. I checked him a few times around nadir bc he was acting a little strange. But over all I am very happy with his levels today.
 
I guess I will be taking booger back down to 2.25. He has done really well the last few days at 2.5 but I just checked him at nadir and he was 52 (alpha meter) first checked him on relion and it showed 34 so I double checked withthe AT meter. @JanetNJ @Kris & Teasel
 
I agree with Janet (as usual). You could switch to one of the depot insulins (levemir or lantus) to even out the edges of the 12 hour cycle. Booger is going pretty high on those edges. Not many people dose 3x per day because of the monitoring and maintenance.

I agree with you that he seems tp be doing a little better in the past few days. Kudos on the spreadsheet and the good progress to date.
 
JeffJ said:
I agree with Janet (as usual). You could switch to one of the depot insulins (levemir or lantus) to even out the edges of the 12 hour cycle. Booger is going pretty high on those edges. Not many people dose 3x per day because of the monitoring and maintenance.

I agree with you that he seems tp be doing a little better in the past few days. Kudos on the spreadsheet and the good progress to date.
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Thanks tho he is 52 right now and just threw up. In freaking out. I don't not have the funds to take him to the ER and my care credit is maxed at the moment. It was just a little food and water. I think he went so low bc last night and today he has had nothing but wet food.
 
WARNING: Alphatrak under 70 is flirting with a hypo. You said he Booger was 52.

With a potential hypo, you need to monitor closely. I would take another reading in 15 minutes. If Booger drops more, then you have a hypo. The protocol is basic:
- ensure food is getting into him
- get some karo or honey or sugar in him
- target 70 or above
- once he is at 70 or above for 2 hours after last food then you are ok
- after 6 hour mark the insulin will wear down

Ok. You are pretty fine for now. Make sure he stays at 70 or above.
Tagging @JanetNJ because I'm going to take a 1 hour break from computer.
 
JeffJ said:
WARNING: Alphatrak under 70 is flirting with a hypo. You said he Booger was 52.

With a potential hypo, you need to monitor closely. I would take another reading in 15 minutes. If Booger drops more, then you have a hypo. The protocol is basic:
- ensure food is getting into him
- get some karo or honey or sugar in him
- target 70 or above
- once he is at 70 or above for 2 hours after last food then you are ok
- after 6 hour mark the insulin will wear down

Ok. You are pretty fine for now. Make sure he stays at 70 or above.
Tagging @JanetNJ because I'm going to take a 1 hour break from computer.
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Thanks @JeffJ for replying. I'm actually sitting in the bathroom with him now. I feed him in here so my other cats dont eat his food. He has been eating the Tender Liver and Chicken Feast fancy feast for the last two cycles so that's way lower carbs than what he was getting with the dry DM. I'm sure that's why he dropped down today. I always check him at 12:30, 1:30, and 2:30 bc that seems to be his nadir times. He has been getting 2.5 for the last 3 cycles. I would love to get him on Lantus but its quite expense and I just lost my job. Ive got a few prospects right now so hopefully one of those will work out and I can make the switch sooner than later. I thought I was finally getting him some where and getting closer to getting him leveled out. So disappoibted right now. I should have known better than to give him 2.5 this morning. I did read some where that with lower carb food not as much insulin is needed so I should have known better.
 
Hes back down at 42. Gave him a little more kyro and some of his dry food. It has carbs in it so hopefully that will help him go up and stay up.
 
Now that he's in a safe range and you can breathe please update the spreadsheet. He got to the 40's on an Alphatrak? That's pretty low. He's pretty much at nadir, so stop feeding, wait 30 min and see if he's holding above 70 on his own
 
If you are ever having an emergency and looking for help on here, change the button at the top to the red 911... It will help you get attention quicker. I almost didn't see this because I had 16 notifications.
 
You did such a good job today. Thank goodness for testing. I think you saved his life today.
 
It's because I'm paranoid. He's been doing so good he did really well yesterday when I did the glucose curve but like I said I switched him to wet food for two cycles and I should have known to drop his dose. so do I need to take him down to two units or to 2.25 units?
 
LovemyBoogie said:
It's because I'm paranoid. He's been doing so good he did really well yesterday when I did the glucose curve but like I said I switched him to wet food for two cycles and I should have known to drop his dose. so do I need to take him down to two units or to 2.25 units?
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I would say 2. If in a few days that proves to not be enough you can always raise it. The other reason is that after a hypo like this they tend to be a little extra sensative to the insulin.

My cat had a hypo to 44 in Jan that landed her at the er. Two days later I have her less then half what I normally would and she hypoed again... Back to er.
 
Oh no! I'm so sorry. I hope that doesnt happen with Booger. I have no job right now and dont have the funds for the ER. Pray for me and Booger please. He's at 105 currently but I will not feel at ease until he is in the 200s honestly. @JanetNJ
 
Thanks Janet. I'm back. Some great advice as usual. Janet was also helping another hypo case today.

This was the 3rd hypo:
3/15 AMPS +6hr
3/16 PMPS +5hr
3/25 AMPS +6hr

For hypos, and actually for regular times. Any reading of 80 or above is just fine. You are trying to get the nadirs to 100-150.
 
LovemyBoogie said:
Oh no! I'm so sorry. I hope that doesnt happen with Booger. I have no job right now and dont have the funds for the ER. Pray for me and Booger please. He's at 105 currently but I will not feel at ease until he is in the 200s honestly. @JanetNJ
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105 is great. Give his ears a break now. How long until he would be due for a shot?
 
JeffJ said:
Thanks Janet. I'm back. Some great advice as usual. Janet was also helping another hypo case today.

This was the 3rd hypo:
3/15 AMPS +6hr
3/16 PMPS +5hr
3/25 AMPS +6hr

For hypos, and actually for regular times. Any reading of 80 or above is just fine. You are trying to get the nadirs to 100-150.
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Yeah I know but he went from 115 back down to 42 in like 15 minutes at one point.
 
JeffJ said:
Thanks Janet. I'm back. Some great advice as usual. Janet was also helping another hypo case today.

This was the 3rd hypo:
3/15 AMPS +6hr
3/16 PMPS +5hr
3/25 AMPS +6hr

For hypos, and actually for regular times. Any reading of 80 or above is just fine. You are trying to get the nadirs to 100-150.
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Yeah we thankfully haven't had too many lately and then too very low ones in one day.
 
JeffJ said:
For followups tomorrow and after, I suggest regular posts to the novolin subforum here.
That way other Novolin experts can help with dosing advice, and monitor your kitteh's progress.

You have done well so far, and the spreadsheet looks good too. So many newbies don't put in the time like you have.
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Booger is on Vetsulin. I have never heard of Novolin. Thank you I am a helicopter paranoid mama.
 
JanetNJ said:
Ok well let's see what it is then. We may suggest you skip or give a reduced dose.
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Ok I will keep you posted. He is now up to 172. I guess it concerns me how slow he is going up. I mean I know that is good to go up slow but last time he went up fairly quickly.
 
LovemyBoogie said:
Ok I will keep you posted. He is now up to 172. I guess it concerns me how slow he is going up. I mean I know that is good to go up slow but last time he went up fairly quickly.
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No no its good! We don't want him in the reds and blacks. Keep going slow!! You can give his ears a break now until preshot testing time. You go relax too. Go watch something funny on TV or something else to destress
 
Sorry, I meant Vetsulin. Both Vetsulin and Novolin share the same characteristics...which is why they have that subforum in common.
 
JanetNJ said:
No no its good! We don't want him in the reds and blacks. Keep going slow!! You can give his ears a break now until preshot testing time. You go relax too. Go watch something funny on TV or something else to destress
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@JanetNJ I am trying to breathe now but I am still worried. I cant help it.
 
Janet is right. The issue is over. Both Janet and I have helped with many hypos in the past. This is the period where you get to sit back and relax. It is also a time to remember that you DID GOOD - and that you saved your kitteh.:)

Unfortunately we have lost kittehs on the forum to hypos. You were prepared, and you asked for help in time.

Leo (my cat) hypo'ed - 2 weeks ago. I had to go from Austin to NYC for work. Leo usually gets 4.5 units in the morning and 2.0 units at night. Theresa accidentally gave him 4.0 units in the PM. So we were both up until 2:30am resolving it. The next day Leo was like "What was all the fuss? Where's my Fancy Feast?...then my nap".

Kittehs...they don't know how much worry and stress their beans have around diabetes.
 
Thank you both for your help and kind words. Its a very stressful situation I'm sure you know. I know that he goes low between +4 and +6 so I always check him at +4 and depending on what he is, I will check in 30 minutes or the next he for that period to make sure he gets through it ok. Call me crazy but I'm very overprotective of my babies. If I go somewhere, I do.it way before nadir or after. I always make sure I'm home by noon. Once he gets past 2:30 and his number are good, then I will leave and run my errand. I get up in the middle of the night at 12:30am and do the same thing. Check him and depending on his level, I will retest in 30 or hr. I just play it by ear over that 2 he period.
 
I have really tried hard working on my stress levels as bella can tell when I’m stressed, when I’m stressed bella is stressed and stress can cause numbers to go up, if I feel my stress level going up or my anxieties going up I take a few deep breaths and try to remember it rubs off on him, you are doing a great job and best that you can and that’s all 1 can ask of themselves
 
Bellasmom said:
I have really tried hard working on my stress levels as bella can tell when I’m stressed, when I’m stressed bella is stressed and stress can cause numbers to go up, if I feel my stress level going up or my anxieties going up I take a few deep breaths and try to remember it rubs off on him, you are doing a great job and best that you can and that’s all 1 can ask of themselves
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Thanks @Bellasmom
 
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