? It's a breakthrough!!!! Wilbur is letting me test!

[johnt]

Ugh, the forum doesn't send notices if you are sent a notice, and there are more replies before you visit the first notice. This is not bad, I love Xenforo and as someone that's a security/programming/web development person this is by far the best option, however it also keeps me from noticing.

this will be long, REALLY long. But i'll start at the beginning. keep in mind, i have Huntington's disease which affects my memory greatly so i might miss time lines. but i documented as much as i could.

"See there is so much I keep hearing from my previous vets, new vet, then forums. I was explicitly told that the 12 seizures Wilbur had were due to high glucose levels. For 6 years I thought that's what the problem was, so once it started getting over 450 I began to panic. it was so hard on him."

Can you explain exactly what was said/diagnosed at the time of these episodes? The advice we give here is based on what we see with the vast number of members’ cats. If your cat was diagnosed with something like episodes of hyperglycemic hyperosmolar syndrome or another rare condition we need to know that. In a case like that we, as non veterinary experts, wouldn’t be able to give the usual guidance. Has Wilbur been seen by a veterinary specialist like one in internal medicine or endocrinology?

We want to help but we need clear information about what has happened in the past. You also mentioned in a recent post that he’s been on ProZinc before Vetsulin. It would be helpful to know why the insulin was changed.

Honestly i don't believe my previous vet may have had a lot of information about feline diabetes. That may sound rude, but from what I've learned since it seems that way.

This will take a bit.

Wilbur started having seizures when he was about 2. Back then I didn't know they were seizures I thought he was choking. they were very infrequent. maybe twice in a couple years.

After talking to a friend that's also my family doctor she told me it sounded like a seizure, not choking. Recommending I take him to the vet. i was asking her about it at the time because Wilbur was very sick and I was unsure what to do.

I took Wilbur to a vet at one point because he was lethargic, couldn't pee etc. When I took him in he had what I figured, a UTI. However, while there the doctor told me that he has diabetes (this was about 6 years ago). She ended up setting me up with this 'pen' to administer insulin. I believe he was about 4 then. his glucose was 400 when they tested him (i think)

I took him to that vet because when this happened I was not near an emergency clinic (lived in a small town then). I went to the place that opened first because I was afraid he was on his way out. I honestly don't remember the dosage then bvut it was tiny

A few days later I took him to my normal vet. They told me that they prescribe ProZinc there, and that's what I should start him on.

Upon their advice I started him on 2u every 12 hours. Things were fine for a while but a few months later he had another seizure at around 10pm. After getting through it, about 8 hours later he had another. I took him to the regular vet when that happened.

She told me she was unsure what it was, but suspected he might be epileptic. To monitor him and let her know if it happens again. I did, over and over and she kept telling me he might have epilepsy, that he shouldn't have had a seizure one hour after I dosed him with ProZinc at his 2u for PM dose. She told me the seizures wouldn't kill him, to just make sure he's safe when they happen.

Mind you, the seizures weren't really times specifically to the dosing. Except the last one. I also did not know how ProZinc worked. I thought if I gave him a shot it should work right then. The last seizure he had was again once at night and another about 8 hours later.

I honestly don't remember how the raise in dose happened, but i know i took him in for a curve and when i picked him up they raised me to 10u/10u. I asked if they were sure, they said yes. Somewhere before this they put him on the phenobarbital saying he had epilepsy but i don't remember them ever doing a test for it.

i stayed the course for a couple years. Now it's oct 2016 and I'm moving my mother to Arizona to be close to her family. She's not well, losing eye sight so I moved her in to care for her (divorced). Obviously my cats came with me. Wilbur had stayed at 10u/10u that whole time (couple years)

Also, after each of the seizures I took him in for, they said his blood sugar was over 500 when tested. Although most times the seizures had happened 8 hours before i could get in since they were at night and they were closed

I found a new vet here. They were very nice, and receptive. the doctor did what felt like a very thorough exam. When complete, he first told me he didn't believe Wilbur had epilepsy. He also said 10u was a LOT. but he didn't want to adjust too much. he took him to 9u/9u.

Over the next month I weaned Wilbur off Phenobarbital. I took him back in and he was in good shape. Sometimes I could test him but it wasn't often. he was very difficult. Wilbur has been off Phenobarbital since approx dec 2016

Also at the new vet I told them I was on a very limited budget, and giving Wilbur 10u twice a day meant a vial of ProZinc would last me just about 3 weeks. It was $120 per vial and at this point It's expensive. he told me they prefer Vetsulin and it would be about half the cost. He said it should be fine to switch him so i did.

At some point he lowered me to 8. So that's what I did. i could sometimes test him when he was zonked out and I could sneak up. he had to be in a very deep sleep. those were normally around +6 to +8.

I called the vet because the readings seemed too low to me. Many times it would be under a hundred. Sometimes in the 90s, one time as low as 63. He then lowered me to 8u/8u

When he got sick again was about Jan 30. I was afraid maybe he had too much insulin to i tried to test him and suddenly it worked. he fought in a little and i'm not very good at hitting the sweet spot yet so it takes a couple tries most times. Sometimes i get it first shot.

From then on is when i started testing through the day, using that old spreadsheet. I immediately took him down to 4.5 because his numbers were low. they've since climbed. but when i called the vet back is when he told me to keep him at 4.5 and make sure he was over 200 before dosing him .

that's where I'm at today.

PS. Wilbur is difficult to feed. both in specific food, and timing. he eats VERY frequently, usually somewhat small amounts. I'd say he eats about every 30 to 60 minutes. then at night he'll go several hours without eating.

over time he started gaining weight. he stopped roaming around and playing in the last year. He started getting fatter then.

When i took him in august this year he weighted 25.4 pounds. When I took him back a few days ago he was 26. so he gained about .5 pounds over about 4 months.

But i have a VERY hard time with food. Partly because I have 3 rescues, they all live together. they all eat together and they all graze. Wilbur gets a wet simple servings (Meow Mix) maybe 4 times per day now because I'm trying to get him off so much dry food. But he doesn't really eat it. he licks it to death but leaves almost all the meat. I used to grind up his meow mix pate at 1/1 water/food. But suddenly he stopped wanting it, and that was over. I started using the wet food as a treat to make sure I could feed him prior to dosing. I have never injected him without knowing he's eaten first.

I spend a lot of time dealing with him, but i get frustrated after awhile because everything is a challenge

So that's probably written very badly, and I apologize. I'm also ADD and it's very difficult to sit that long

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Thank you for this. It helps me to understand what has happened and where you are now. Given your description of the timing of Wilbur’s seizures - ie., several hours before the vet saw him - it seems to fit the situation we see here often of a high insulin dose causing the BG to dive low followed by significant rebound hyperglycemia. I can’t be certain but that’s a common scenario.

I suggest you follow the testing routine we recommend at least for today and tomorrow. Keep your SS updated so anyone who checks can see where he is. Hold the 4.5 u dose both AM and PM. The goal is to settle things down and get used to a structured testing/dosing schedule.

Keep a close eye on Wilbur’s clinical signs and post if you see anything strange or concerning.

I’m sorry all this has been so hard for so long. Do as much as you can with wet food, extra water for good hydration and so on.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

How about a +4 and a +6 today to fill in those gaps. On the face of it the pink and red look like inflated rebound numbers from the earlier yellow and blue. That late afternoon blue yesterday really seems out of place so I’m ignoring it.

 

[johnt]

@Kris & Teasel I'm going to get a +6 for sure. I actually came back to post to let you know, I want to give him a bit of a break today. i tested him 8 times yesterday and he's starting to get nervous when i come back in. Also I'm under the weather today myself.
+4 is in one hour and I'm beat, need to take a break.

I thought I'd get him a +6 then a +10 if that's ok. then tomorrow start more regular, evenly spaced


Also, i should add. I know that was a lot of stuff to read. But it might be unclear. Wilbur had the seizures during the time i was dosing 2/2 and 2/4. once they instructed to raise to to 10/10 2.5 years ago he hasn't had another.

 

[johnt]

How about a +4 and a +6 today to fill in those gaps. On the face of it the pink and red look like inflated rebound numbers from the earlier yellow and blue. That late afternoon blue yesterday really seems out of place so I’m ignoring it.

FYI i definitely agree on the blue tests. they seem like anomalies and don't fit the trend.

also a correction. I'm not going to edit the post. it was when he was four taht he was diagnosed. he's been diabetic for 6 years and he's 10 now.

also this probably doesn't matter but when i was using the original vet she said he had cataracts in both eyes

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Wilbur had the seizures during the time i was dosing 2/2 and 2/4. once they instructed to raise to to 10/10 2.5 years ago he hasn't had another.

So, maybe it's possible that on those low doses his BG was so high it severely dehydrated him leading to seizure activity. Hydration is essential! Think of dry food like a sponge that soaks up water from their tissues. Yes, I know you've had trouble getting him to eat wet food. Have you ever tried adding extra water to low carb wet food and putting it a blender to make a thick soup that might be more palatable to him?

Re dosing: there's a heck of a lot of doses between 2/2, 2/4 and 10/10. You said you saw evidence of low BG and that's why you decided to lower his dose by 50% yourself.

I still think the solution for Wilbur involves a good testing routine to guide proper dosing and more efforts to gets wet food into him.

 

[johnt]

So, maybe it's possible that on those low doses his BG was so high it severely dehydrated him leading to seizure activity. Hydration is essential! Think of dry food like a sponge that soaks up water from their tissues. Yes, I know you've had trouble getting him to eat wet food. Have you ever tried adding extra water to low carb wet food and putting it a blender to make a thick soup that might be more palatable to him?

Re dosing: there's a heck of a lot of doses between 2/2, 2/4 and 10/10. You said you saw evidence of low BG and that's why you decided to lower his dose by 50% yourself.

I still think the solution for Wilbur involves a good testing routine to guide proper dosing and more efforts to gets wet food into him.

Hi Kris, I got the +4 and it was 86. I poked the other ear with a different lancet+strip, 79

so yikes

And yes, that was a lot of doses. that was before I talked to you and understood how this all worked.

I am going to be charting him regularly now. I would bet, based on what i was seeing, his bg will be 350+ in 2 hours

Finally, what lancet size do you recommend? i'm using a 30 gauge that i bought a while back. is that too big?

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Hi Kris, I got the +4 and it was 86. I poked the other ear with a different lancet+strip, 79

so yikes

And yes, that was a lot of testing. that's why i wanted to give him a break. I didn't get off the computer just now like i'd hoped, but his spreadsheet is now updated.

Hurray!! It's great that you thought to double check with a second test. Those two numbers are essentially the same as far as BG level goes. If you can possibly convince him to tolerate a +6 test that would be very helpful, then you can leave him alone until his evening pre shot test (remember: no food for 2 hours before that one).

He's still well above the "take action" (with a small food snack) BG of 50 on a human meter. Leave him alone to graze or whatever he likes to do so we can see how this dose plays out with no interference. You need this baseline to learn his patterns.

Great job!

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Don't panic if he's lower at +6. There are things you can easily do to prop him up. I have no idea if that'll be the case - just giving a heads up.

 

[johnt]

Don't panic if he's lower at +6. There are things you can easily do to prop him up. I have no idea if that'll be the case - just giving a heads up.

I have a tiny jar of Karo i keep at my desk just 'in case'. I c an't bother him again right now, he got very fussy on #2 as it was.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Hi Kris, I got the +4 and it was 86. I poked the other ear with a different lancet+strip, 79

Well, would you look at that???

I have been lurking on this thread for a while and was going to pop my head in to say "hi" and to second Kris' recommendations on getting a testing, but while I'm here, wow! Hitting green!

Small disagreement: in this situation I'd test earlier, like +5, and I'd give him a little low-carb snack now if he's amenable (not time for Karo yet, but it's good to have it at the ready!). I'm suggesting an earlier test just in case he's got a lot of momentum working on that drop from 443 to 86. And then, yes, he's likely going to zoom upwards from here and be super-high by PMPS. So it goes!

 

[johnt]

Well, would you look at that???

I have been lurking on this thread for a while and was going to pop my head in to say "hi" and to second Kris' recommendations on getting a testing, but while I'm here, wow! Hitting green!

Small disagreement: in this situation I'd test earlier, like +5, and I'd give him a little low-carb snack now if he's amenable (not time for Karo yet, but it's good to have it at the ready!). I'm suggesting an earlier test just in case he's got a lot of momentum working on that drop from 443 to 86. And then, yes, he's likely going to zoom upwards from here and be super-high by PMPS. So it goes!

Hi there. Thank you.

I'm going to give him some time and when he settles into his bed for a nap i'll test again.

FYI when it was low I did give him some of the 'treats' to assist.

 

[johnt]

Oh, honestly, before, when i was getting a test every few days, this was happening at about time too. I just didn't know all that I do now.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

I'm going to give him some time and when he settles into his bed for a nap i'll test again.

Sounds good! (it's important to stay on the good side of your patient and not annoy him )

On the lancets: the smaller the number the bigger the lancet. Usually we say new people start with the biggest lancet they can get, 26 or 28, easier to get blood. As the ears "learn to bleed" you can go smaller, down to the really thin ones, 33. If the 30's are working, great! If you find you have to make multiple pokes or work really hard to get the blood drop out, you might want to move to 26 or 28 for a little while.

 

[johnt]

Thank you @Nan & Amber

I'm ok with this, the problem I have is sometimes it bleeds really fast, other times it's normal and simple. I am fairly sure I've poked my thumb at least twice as much as his ear.

 

[johnt]

Well great. he's been hiding from me all day. i finally got it but he's hiding from me now, and i could see it coming.

great

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Well great. he's been hiding from me all day. i finally got it but he's hiding from me now, and i could see it coming.

great

This looks like classic bouncing high into reds after having those lovely dark greens today. Vetsulin often gives a very deep curve like this - it's the nature of the insulin's action. Those dark greens are what we focus on to assess the dose. Ideally with Vetsulin you want a nadir in the 90 to 110 range. Those high 80s are OK but tell us that 4.5 u is almost on the edge of too high a dose. Don't change it yet though. You need a couple more days at the 4.5 u dose to know for sure. He still needs to settle after previous erratic dosing times.

For tomorrow: aim for the important AM/PM pre shot tests and try to get a +5 and a +7. Try to be as relaxed and matter of fact as you can around the whole testing procedure. Your stress will make Wilbur more stressed.

 

[johnt]

ok. one question. how was he still alive when I was doing 10/10?

 

[Kris & Teasel]

ok. one question. how was he still alive when I was doing 10/10?

That's a really good question. I can't imagine giving that high a dose to a cat that doesn't have one of the high dose medical conditions like acromegaly or autoinsulin antibodies. Unless his insulin needs were higher then and have dropped significantly for some unknown reason, I think he was just lucky that his physiologic compensation processes (that cause what we call bouncing) were in good working order. You weren't testing then so you have no idea what those huge doses were doing to his BG.

 

[johnt]

That's a really good question. I can't imagine giving that high a dose to a cat that doesn't have one of the high dose medical conditions like acromegaly or autoinsulin antibodies. Unless his insulin needs were higher then and have dropped significantly for some unknown reason, I think he was just lucky that his physiologic compensation processes (that cause what we call bouncing) were in good working order. You weren't testing then so you have no idea what those huge doses were doing to his BG.

Oh i know. I'm so much more relaxed now, yet more stressed too. when i get better at testing it'll relax. but since i'm not going to test him 10 times a day he should calm down.

I'll keep this going.

I can't thank you enough for the help. i meant to say that several times

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Oh i know. I'm so much more relaxed now, yet more stressed too. when i get better at testing it'll relax. but since i'm not going to test him 10 times a day he should calm down.

I'll keep this going.

I can't thank you enough for the help. i meant to say that several times

The minimum number of tests a day that will give you a general idea of how he's doing is three: AM/PM pre shot tests and one more in the +4 to +7 range. You can try adding a fourth at your bed time. If you move that middle test around day to day you'll get a good sampling of data to show how a dose is working. You don't routinely have to do nearly as many tests as you did yesterday. Once in a while you might want to do a full curve at a dose but the scattered tests are generally easier to accomplish and give good information over time. Think of them as pieces in a jig saw puzzle.

 

[johnt]

The minimum number of tests a day that will give you a general idea of how he's doing is three: AM/PM pre shot tests and one more in the +4 to +7 range. You can try adding a fourth at your bed time. If you move that middle test around day to day you'll get a good sampling of data to show how a dose is working. You don't routinely have to do nearly as many tests as you did yesterday. Once in a while you might want to do a full curve at a dose but the scattered tests are generally easier to accomplish and give good information over time. Think of them as pieces in a jig saw puzzle.

OK. my thought was I need those +4 - +7 on both cycles. so i only need to do them on one or the other? Should I rotate them? Moving them around won't be a problem. i don't want him to start hiding when i'm coming anyway.

poor chunk has gone through a few rough days.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

OK. my thought was I need those +4 - +7 on both cycles. so i only need to do them on one or the other? Should I rotate them? Moving them around won't be a problem. i don't want him to start hiding when i'm coming anyway.

poor chunk has gone through a few rough days.

No, you don't need them both cycles. In the daytime, you can do one test (between the AM/PM pre shot tests) and vary it from about +4 to +7 over a few days. Do two if you feel ambitious and Wilbur is OK with it. The routine evening test we recommend is one before you go to bed. If you want to be more strategic, get a +2 in the evening to see what his plans might be. If the +2 is much lower, set an alarm for a test near +4 or +5 because a low +2 can be a sign of a bigger drop to come.

You're still getting used to this testing routine and building it into Wilbur's day as well so aim for those three basic tests for now. Of course, you'll need to increase that if his BG needs to be monitored more because it's getting low.

Work on getting more water into him. Try that pureeing wet food with extra water trick.

 

[johnt]

No, you don't need them both cycles. In the daytime, you can do one test (between the AM/PM pre shot tests) and vary it from about +4 to +7 over a few days. Do two if you feel ambitious and Wilbur is OK with it. The routine evening test we recommend is one before you go to bed. If you want to be more strategic, get a +2 in the evening to see what his plans might be. If the +2 is much lower, set an alarm for a test near +4 or +5 because a low +2 can be a sign of a bigger drop to come.

You're still getting used to this testing routine and building it into Wilbur's day as well so aim for those three basic tests for now. Of course, you'll need to increase that if his BG needs to be monitored more because it's getting low.

Work on getting more water into him. Try that pureeing wet food with extra water trick.

Boy he drinks a TON of water. I keep filling the cup full of ice again, and i have two of those big baking dishes I fill up with ice then water.

he frequently lays by the cup like the pic i posted during the day.

me backing off a bit will calm him down. i'm glad to know i just need to do it 3 times per day

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Boy he drinks a TON of water. I keep filling the cup full of ice again, and i have two of those big baking dishes I fill up with ice then water.

he frequently lays by the cup like the pic i posted during the day.

me backing off a bit will calm him down. i'm glad to know i just need to do it 3 times per day

OK. It seems he has the water drinking covered. Part of the problem as I mentioned a few posts back is that dry food actually dehydrates them so the less he eats of that the better. He's already dehydrated because of diabetes.

Yes, I hope a reduced testing schedule will help. You have to stick to it though because that's what all the dosing decisions are based on.

 

[johnt]

OK. It seems he has the water drinking covered. Part of the problem as I mentioned a few posts back is that dry food actually dehydrates them so the less he eats of that the better. He's already dehydrated because of diabetes.

Yes, I hope a reduced testing schedule will help. You have to stick to it though because that's what all the dosing decisions are based on.

Understood.

Should I move him off the dry treats completely and just use the simple servings? those are small wet packets that he licks. It would take me awhile to get him off the treats but if needed I think I could.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Understood.

Should I move him off the dry treats completely and just use the simple servings? those are small wet packets that he licks. It would take me awhile to get him off the treats but if needed I think I could.

When you say dry treats do you mean regular kibble or things like Temptations (very high carb!)? He has to eat but the more low carb wet food the better, the less kibble the better. Do as much as you can.

 

[johnt]

When you say dry treats do you mean regular kibble or things like Temptations (very high carb!)? He has to eat but the more low carb wet food the better, the less kibble the better. Do as much as you can.

yes the temptations. I'll wean him off of them again

 

[Kris & Teasel]

yes the temptations. I'll wean him off of them again

Some people here refer to them as donuts for cats. There are freeze dried plain meat only treats in pet stores that are good to use as treats. One brand is Pure Bites. Wilbur needs a treat before and after every BG test. I keep Temptations on hand to boost my cat’s BG when he dives too low. You can use them for that.

 

[johnt]

Some people here refer to them as donuts for cats. There are freeze dried plain meat only treats in pet stores that are good to use as treats. One brand is Pure Bites. Wilbur needs a treat before and after every BG test. I keep Temptations on hand to boost my cat’s BG when he dives too low. You can use them for that.

That's what I was hoping for the temptations. the problem is when he was young that's all he would eat. so i likely am the reason he got diabetes, i had no idea.

Anyway, yes I want to get him off the temptations unless he drops down real low.

he's so tuned in to those things, he stops eating them when they get old. even sealing them every time he will wait till i open a new bag then crush them. So since they're all about .50 per /oz I stopped getting big ones and buy the smallest I can.

Anyway, done for the night, i'll start up in the morning

Than k you for the patience.

 

[FurBabiesMama]

I just want to jump in here and say @Kris & Teasel, you rock!

Also, just FYI, it looks like the Hill's w/d dry food is over 30% carbs: https://www.hillspet.com/cat-food/pd-wd-feline-dry

 

[Kris & Teasel]

I just want to jump in here and say @Kris & Teasel, you rock!

Also, just FYI, it looks like the Hill's w/d dry food is over 30% carbs: https://www.hillspet.com/cat-food/pd-wd-feline-dry

Why thank you! Trying hard to help.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

How is Wilbur this morning?

 

[johnt]

How is Wilbur this morning?

yes you've been a Godsend, believe me.

Wilbur is good. I woke up about an hour ago and tested himv (331 @ +10). He's due for a dose in 30 minutes.

I'll check him again at +5

Also, is there a preferred time of day that's best or just when h wakes up in the morning?

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Another idea for treats: you can roast or poach a plain chicken breast, cut it into tiny bite-size pieces, freeze the bulk and leave out a day's amount at a time. Easy to do and economical.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

yes you've been a Godsend, believe me.

Wilbur is good. I woke up about an hour ago and tested himv (331 @ +10). He's due for a dose in 30 minutes.

I'll check him again at +5

Also, is there a preferred time of day that's best or just when h wakes up in the morning?

That +10 doesn't count as his AM pre shot test. Make sure he doesn't eat anything for the 2 hours before each pre shot test. I know I sound like a broken record but that's important.

Test again at what is his +12 time - that's your pre shot test. Post it here right away. My guess is the 4.5 u will be OK but I'd like to see the BG test number.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

After this AM business is dealt with, getting a +5 today is good. Give it a few more days and this whole routine will be second nature.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Just saw that 348 pre shot and the 4.5 u dose. Good. If you've forgotten the no food for 2 hours before the pre shot test, no problem. Aim to get that in place going forward. Give Wilbur a pokey break until +5.

 

[johnt]

Just saw that 348 pre shot and the 4.5 u dose. Good. If you've forgotten the no food for 2 hours before the pre shot test, no problem. Aim to get that in place going forward. Give Wilbur a pokey break until +5.

Yes. i gasve him the shot and we did the 'no food' 2 hours pre. He was sleeping. This is why i changed him when i started the chart back to 9am/9pm. that seems to fit his schedule. I prefer him to be at 5am/5pm to fit mine, but that's ok.

I also saw @FurBabiesMama say how horribly high the carbs are in Hills Prescription Diet. See that old vet got me on that saying it was good. Well it's not, and it's expensive (well to me). It's $65.00 for a 16lb bag.

The problem is I need something all 3 will eat. Still looking. I was going to try that 'young again' food. Wilbur LOVED that when they sent samples, but this was before I could test him and they told me they wouldn't sell it to me unless I was testing. I think it might be hyperbole but i'm not sure. are you familiar with that? This is the food i was looking at but I don't know that I could afford those prices. $56 for an 8lb bag? seriously?

 

[FurBabiesMama]

If you could get them all on a low-carb wet food, that would be the best option. There are lower priced ones available. If you must have dry food, the Zero Mature Health is as low carb as you are going to get. That company is very 'dramatic' about their product which I do not like and just ignore. If you buy into their 'propaganda', it is the best food to ever exist and must be the only food your cats ever eat and will cure their diabetes! My girls like it, and I add a few kibbles, usually crushed, as a food topper. Occasionally, I use it as a treat for Mia. She is really a little kibble junkie.

Update: I should add that if you change to low-carb food, you will have to be very careful because that can drop a cats glucose level quite a bit, so you want to monitor very closely.

 

[FurBabiesMama]

One more thing about Young Again. Notice how high the calories are. Your Hill's food has 280 kcal/cup while the YA has 596 kcal/cup. So, they should not eat as much of the YA which makes the cost better than it seems.

 

[johnt]

One more thing about Young Again. Notice how high the calories are. Your Hill's food has 280 kcal/cup while the YA has 596 kcal/cup. So, they should not eat as much of the YA which makes the cost better than it seems.

i did see that, and I agree about the hyperbole. i mentioned it. For me it was the carrbs.

But they do claim on their site that your cats will eat much less of it so it's comparable. however that's hyperbole as well.

I know that wilbur LOVED it as a treat. so i am hoping to maybe swap it out as a treat instead of the temptations that are awful

I'll look at the one you mention above when I'm back in my office.

Thanks!

 

[johnt]

oh also, i can't swap them to wet. Tinker and Pickle are strange. they both do fine grazing but are awful trying to feed on schedules. Tinker is the worst, she's so picky the best I can get is for her to 'sometimes' like a wet food to death. She won't eat it. she'll just lick the sauce off. but even then it's very difficult to find one she'll like, and then the little monster gets tired of it.

Im trying to find a balance though

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Another dry that I think has acceptable carbs (supposedly; I haven't kept up with reports from folks that have tried it) is Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein kibbles. They're available on Chewy.com. Also pretty pricey, but might be another option for your picky eaters.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Another dry that I think has acceptable carbs (supposedly; I haven't kept up with reports from folks that have tried it) is Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein kibbles. They're available on Chewy.com. Also pretty pricey, but might be another option for your picky eaters.

Yes, the chicken is 5% and the salmon is 8% (if I remember right).....I got some for my civvies (one of who has always missed her "crunchies") .....China sneaked a few and it didn't do anything bad to her BG

 

[johnt]

Another dry that I think has acceptable carbs (supposedly; I haven't kept up with reports from folks that have tried it) is Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein kibbles. They're available on Chewy.com. Also pretty pricey, but might be another option for your picky eaters.

i buy the hills prescription diet on Chewy using auto ship. I'm familiar with them.

It says 42.29 for a 6 lb bag, I wonder if it's possible to get bigger?

I also wonder if there is a sample or really small bad (2lb was the smallest I saw). I would need to try them all and see if they like it (it would have to be salmon i'm sure).

Maybe i'll order the $14 small bag and try that

 

[FurBabiesMama]

oh also, i can't swap them to wet. Tinker and Pickle are strange. they both do fine grazing but are awful trying to feed on schedules. Tinker is the worst, she's so picky the best I can get is for her to 'sometimes' like a wet food to death. She won't eat it. she'll just lick the sauce off. but even then it's very difficult to find one she'll like, and then the little monster gets tired of it.

It took a little while for me to transition my girls to wet; they had eaten dry their entire lives. It also required going through several different foods before finding what they would consistently eat. I feed them four times a day (every 6 hours) and whatever they don't eat at meal time remains out for them to graze on until the next meal or until two hours before Mia's pre-shot glucose test.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I also wonder if there is a sample or really small bad (2lb was the smallest I saw). I would need to try them all and see if they like it (it would have to be salmon i'm sure).

You can call Dr. Elsey's....they'll send you samples

 

[johnt]

After this AM business is dealt with, getting a +5 today is good. Give it a few more days and this whole routine will be second nature.

Got him a +5 @ 319

He's getting sketchy around me, he squirted out and ran a little but he came back around and was then fine.

I got him just now and i got a great shot, no flinch, first try etc and he didn't notice. if I can keep getting that he'll be fine.

So your advice is to get a +7 tomorrow? should I do it during the day cycle like I did this +5?

 

[johnt]

You can call Dr. Elsey's....they'll send you samples

Oh fantastic! I'll do that. Maybe lightning will strike and they'll all swap. I got very lucky (well not now that I know the truth) with them all moving to the Hills, but once i find the right stuff to feed them i just have to cross my fingers and hope the agree.