My boy just diagnosed, I'm confused, devastated

[Jainarayan]

I bring up this resume of doctors and vets to give you the advice that, doctors hate it when you print testimonials from the internet. I say this not to discourage you from gaining the best info for you and your cat, but instead to help you get the best treatment. Doctors spend a lot of time correcting things people read off the internet

Thanks, your points are well taken. I mean the things I wrote about his appearance and behavior, and observing him over the week. Otherwise I may forget what I want to tell her. I tend to get rattled and forget things. Just as you said, my own list of observations and questions. Not to worry, as valuable as all this information is for me, I have no desire to compete with the vet.

 

[AlphaCat]

Thanks, your points are well taken. I mean the things I wrote about his appearance and behavior, and observing him over the week. Otherwise I may forget what I want to tell her. I tend to get rattled and forget things. Just as you said, my own list of observations and questions. Not to worry, as valuable as all this information is for me, I have no desire to compete with the vet.

Phew! I would hate that our support would start you off on the wrong foot!

I make many lists for doctors, so I completely get that! Symptoms, things to make it better, things that make it worse, days it happens, etc... before I was diagnosed I was keeping a color coded spreadsheet on my own symptoms, lol the doc joked that I was OCD. But if I don't make my lists I forget and then leave without what I needed addressed.

I also thought about one other thing for your list... vet's love their fructosimine tests, which as many here believe they are useless if you have someone home testing and keeping a spreadsheet. You might want to make a reference of what the fructosimine test does so if your vet discusses it with you you can decline it and recommend that you begin treatment (if applicable after dealing with the urinary concern, again, your cat might not even be diabetic.) with the current numbers and build a spreadsheet history. If the vet still thinks it's needed after reviewing your spreadsheet in a month, you could choose to agree at that time (pending cost) of the test at this vet.

(Also sorry, I tend to write novels...)

 

[Jainarayan]

Yes, Harley's BG this morning was normal. I went to the vet expecting to start him on insulin. It was a wonderful surprise. It has been a stressful month, but we can relax a bit now. We will have to keep our kitties on canned food forever, but I can live with that. No more steroids either. It is thought Harley was already on the edge and steroids threw him into really high BGs. The "premium dry food" we had been feeding him was likely the explanation for why we could only feed him 1/3 cup dry for the whole day and he remained overweight. Poor cat. We had been starving him nutritionally and by amount fed and did not even know it. Like you, I am so glad I found this site. I hope your kitty has some positive changes with his new wet food diet. Like many others, I was truly appalled by the ignorance of your vet, the prices she quoted and the things she said. I am glad you are looking into finding someone new because You and your kitty deserve better.

Thanks... good luck to all if us.

Christian actually always preferred canned food. He starts meowing, dancing around, pushing and generally acting like a little kid. And he gobbles the food. Even now being sick. He seems to have lost interest in dry food, so no loss there. I noticed tonight that he washed his paws and face after eating. I haven't seen him do that in at least a week. And he's dtarting to talk back again. I don't want to delude myself, but I really hope it comes down to his diet.

See, he had a very rough start in life. I got him when he was about 5 weeks old and 1.5 lb. He was separated from his mother and not fully weaned. He was dehydrated and only a few hours away from death. We got him to the hospital in the nick of time. Even then the vet didn't think he would make it. He was hospitalized for 4 days with an i.v. But he kicked butt and came home, having gained a pound or two in the hospital. My female Shih tzu took over watching him and sort of adopted him.

 

[Jainarayan]

Phew! I would hate that our support would start you off on the wrong foot!

Lol No worries.

True story... when I found an endocrinologist for myself (I am hypothyroid and had abyssmally low LH and FSH, therefore abysmally low testosterone) I had done a lot of research.

When I had my first consult with her and brought my labs (my previous doctor ran them but blew off the results), and explained what I knew about it and how I was feeling and why, she looked at me and said "you're a doctor?"

Ok, here comes the tongue-lashing about being a Wikipedia Doctor, I thought. I said "no ma'am, I just read too much". She said "well, your knowledge of this is commendable, because you're right on all counts". That was one of the proudest days of my life. But I never pushed my luck with any doctors after that.

 

[AlphaCat]

I have a similar story with my Runswith on how she came into my life. She lived to be 20... and only ever got to 8lbs full grown. The little ones that need you the most always seem to pull the hardest at the heart strings.

Grooming is a good sign!!!

What's the water consumption like?

On the doctors part, good for you for holding your own!

 

[Jainarayan]

I have a similar story with my Runswith on how she came into my life. She lived to be 20... and only ever got to 8lbs full grown. The little ones that need you the most always seem to pull the hardest at the heart strings.

Don't I know! One kitten I took in at 4 or 5 weeks over 20 years ago, developed severe asthma. I kept syringes of depomedrol and epinephrine at home, she was on prednisone. When I had to go away for a business workshop I boarded her at the animal hospital. I wouldn't put the responsibility of giving her injections on my friends or family who might cat-sit. Sure enough, she had an attack while boarded. The attacks got worse, and the injections less effective, until the day they didn't work at all. She was 3 years old, and died on the way to the vet before she could be put into oxygen.

Grooming is a good sign!!!

I kind of thought so.

What's the water consumption like?

I actually haven't seen him drinking a lot. The wee-wee pads were dry, unless of course he's using places I have yet to discover. But there was a good size clump of urine as well as some man-size stools in his litter box this morning. He's eating, but he's not wild about minced or paté in any brand. Well, too bad Fatboy, get used to it.

On the doctors part, good for you for holding your own!

I just got a call from one of the other doctors at my usual vet. office. She OK'ed the release of his exam results. She said by all means get a 2nd opinion. I've actually worked mostly with her for 10-12 years. Why I didn't make the last appt. with her is a mystery to me. Anyway, we talked for a while. I asked her point blank, saying I understood if she didn't want to answer, why did the other doctor explain things to me the way she did, gave me two horrible choices (actually no choice), and so on. She said the reason for not giving the shot of insulin was because we hadn't worked up a plan. Doing one shot without any follow up plan would do nothing. I said, but all I had to go on was that it was going to cost me "thousands", up to $1,000 a month, what with insulin being $300, and monthly trips for a battery of tests. Quite honestly that made me think because I couldn't afford that, my only choice was to watch him die. She said nooo, that's not the way it works at all. She said, as some of you said, initially it can be expensive for the tests, but once we start doing the home testing and injections, it's not all that expensive, with only occasional office visits once he's stable. Well #*@%$!^ why didn't the other doctor phrase it and frame it that way? So now I don't know whether to be relieved or even more peed off! Anyway, she said the food change was a good first step, and that many cats can go into remission. I knew I should have seen her, but it is what it is.

 

[JanetNJ]

Don't I know! One kitten I took in at 4 or 5 weeks over 20 years ago, developed severe asthma. I kept syringes of depomedrol and epinephrine at home, she was on prednisone. When I had to go away for a business workshop I boarded her at the animal hospital. I wouldn't put the responsibility of giving her injections on my friends or family who might cat-sit. Sure enough, she had an attack while boarded. The attacks got worse, and the injections less effective, until the day they didn't work at all. She was 3 years old, and died on the way to the vet before she could be put into oxygen.



I kind of thought so.



I actually haven't seen him drinking a lot. The wee-wee pads were dry, unless of course he's using places I have yet to discover. But there was a good size clump of urine as well as some man-size stools in his litter box this morning. He's eating, but he's not wild about minced or paté in any brand. Well, too bad Fatboy, get used to it.



I just got a call from one of the other doctors at my usual vet. office. She OK'ed the release of his exam results. She said by all means get a 2nd opinion. I've actually worked mostly with her for 10-12 years. Why I didn't make the last appt. with her is a mystery to me. Anyway, we talked for a while. I asked her point blank, saying I understood if she didn't want to answer, why did the other doctor explain things to me the way she did, gave me two horrible choices (actually no choice), and so on. She said the reason for not giving the shot of insulin was because we hadn't worked up a plan. Doing one shot without any follow up plan would do nothing. I said, but all I had to go on was that it was going to cost me "thousands", up to $1,000 a month, what with insulin being $300, and monthly trips for a battery of tests. Quite honestly that made me think because I couldn't afford that, my only choice was to watch him die. She said nooo, that's not the way it works at all. She said, as some of you said, initially it can be expensive for the tests, but once we start doing the home testing and injections, it's not all that expensive, with only occasional office visits once he's stable. Well #*@%$!^ why didn't the other doctor phrase it and frame it that way? So now I don't know whether to be relieved or even more peed off! Anyway, she said the food change was a good first step, and that many cats can go into remission. I knew I should have seen her, but it is what it is.

I'm glad you still have a good relationship with that vet anyway....and now you know to stay away from the other one.

I had a cat only two years old have what I assume was a heart attack on Thanksgiving day 2001. We were over my in laws (Taime always came with us.... He liked to travel between houses.). Relatives were over... Hadn't even eaten yet when he collapsed. I tried to give him cpr but it didn't work. Needless to say the holiday was ruined for everyone.

A few months later I ran into the family that gave him to us (got him from Rockstar Sebastian Bach believe it or not) and his wife said that my cats mother died when she was only 3.... They assumed a neighbor must have poisoned her.... But I think it was a genetic heart problem. He was an awesome cat. One of the worst days of my life when he died.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm glad you still have a good relationship with that vet anyway....and now you know to stay away from the other one.

Yes, she's the one that usually sees the dogs. She was fantastic when my Toby was dying of CRF. After Toby died I got a flower arrangement and a card from the her.

It was horrible when Misty died on the way to the vet. She was in her carrier in the back seat, she cried, then stopped. I knew what that meant. When I got to the office the office manager brushed everyone aside saying "out of the way, emergency" (I had called ahead). I walked in slowly and said "don't rush". She said "oh no!" and she started crying.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

With the exception of Bandit's current vet, I've had to provide information about feline diabetes and be adamant with them about the treatment path I wanted to take with Bandit. Most cats on the right diet (low carb, canned), the right insulin (Lantus or Levemir), and dose adjustments via home testing go into remission. Bandit's been diabetic for over 8 years now, and the vast majority of that time he's been perfectly healthy.

Food doesn't have to be expensive or prescription. Any food under 10% carbs will do. Bandit ate Fancy Feast, Wellness, and Sheba Pates for many years. I'm a little choosier with foods now that he's older and we need to support his kidneys with a low phosphorus diet as well, but there's always a better commercial alternative for every prescription food. I feed Bandit and his brother Orpheus premium canned foods, and it's still way cheaper than the prescription foods and much better quality.

As Chris mentioned, you can order Lantus from Canada with a script from your vet, and I would definitely get the pens. You use them with a syringe still (and treat them like mini-vials) and they'll last you a year or more. The cost of a pack of pens is about $170 after shipping. A box of syringes is $13 at Walmart.

If you're testing at home, you don't need a fructosamine test. It's useful for diagnosis but nothing else, and you can get the same information by testing at home and average the results. Bandit never got a fructosamine for diagnosis--they did a BG test in his full blood panel, and then a urinalysis and daily home testing confirmed. The vet may want you to get a full blood panel and/or urinalysis to start, and with a potential UTI on board I understand that--but it shouldn't cost more than $300-$400.

It depends on what kind of meter you get for how much home testing will cost, but I would say I was spending about $15 a week on test strips when Bandit was on insulin? We test less frequently when he's not on insulin, which is most of the time.

 

[AlphaCat]

Have you started home testing yet?

With him improving so markedly (grooming/not sitting over the water bowl/no more accidents) I wonder what was going on with Christian.

If you already have your home testing going and can get some data from home (in a non-stressful) environment it will really help the direction of your second opinion.

If Christian is diagnosed diabetic, showing your new doc the results of your home tests will show you are committed to home care and show the doc you know what you're doing.

The big ball of urine is a really good sign on the urinary concerns.

Fabby isn't a real big fan of the pates either, she really wants the carb loaded ones with gravy (can't say I blame her, lol). I do add a bit of filtered water to her pate and mix it up so it's pate gravy. That seems to do the trick, lol. She gets her "gravy" without the carbs.

 

[Jainarayan]

Have you started home testing yet?

With him improving so markedly (grooming/not sitting over the water bowl/no more accidents) I wonder what was going on with Christian.

If you already have your home testing going and can get some data from home (in a non-stressful) environment it will really help the direction of your second opinion.

If Christian is diagnosed diabetic, showing your new doc the results of your home tests will show you are committed to home care and show the doc you know what you're doing.

The big ball of urine is a really good sign on the urinary concerns.

Fabby isn't a real big fan of the pates either, she really wants the carb loaded ones with gravy (can't say I blame her, lol). I do add a bit of filtered water to her pate and mix it up so it's pate gravy. That seems to do the trick, lol. She gets her "gravy" without the carbs.

I haven't started testing yet. I don't know what I'm waiting for, except some stupid idea that I need to see the vet first. I'll check Walgreen's since there's no Walmart nearby, believe it or not.

I don't know what possessed me to say earlier that he was eating Blue Wilderness canned, except for being that out-of-touch with reality. The dry he was eating was Blue Indoor dry (the dogs eat Wilderness canned and dry). His canned food was Hill's Science Diet Tender Tuna Dinner Adult Canned. It's not even listed in the food chart, but other Hill's varieties have carbs ranging from 19-30%.

I may have jumped the gun about no more accidents. His litter box was clean this morning, it looks like he used a pad, and I found a deuce on the rug. If he has an infection he's probably associating the litter box with discomfort. I won't know until I get home tonight to see if he used the litter box.

I though about adding a bit of water to the pate, but it looks like it's a matter of the flavor. He doesn't like salmon. I gave him Fancy Feast Classic Ocean Whitefish & Tuna Feast, which he gobbled up. The Chicken Feast is his next favorite. But he went absolutely bat**** crazy for Wilderness Wild Delights Chicken & Turkey in Gravy. The food chart shows it at 10% carbs. I wanted to stay below that, around the % FF has.

I hope it's not just my imagination, but he seems to have plumped up. He's doing some of his normal things, like constantly jumping up and down from the table (but using his step stool, which he thinks makes him all-that). I don't know if he can jump from the floor to the table because he's using the step stool, He's talking up a storm demanding his food, doing his regular house patrol. He went from 0-60 in .0315 seconds at the sound of a can opening, did his normal pushing and rubbing on my legs while I was fixing his dish. And all the while hollering at me, of course. He's sitting and laying better. Last week he would stretch out on the floor and looked like he was trying to get comfortable. Now he's back to reclining leisurely (ah, the life!), and even twitches his tail while he's lying down. When he walks (which looks normal) his tail is straight up. When I take a shower I leave the bathroom door open a crack so it doesn't get too steamy. Guess who popped in, checked to make sure everything was up to code, and left. He hasn't been purring, but I thought he did this morning. I also saw him do a quick grooming.

Of course we're watching him like a hawk, but the way he was this morning, you'd have never thought we had a crisis. If his b.g. comes down I hope the vet tells me he won't need insulin, and that the food change and weight management will control his diabetes.

So that's a quick, long-winded (wait wut, "quick, long-winded"? ) update.

 

[Lillie]

Jainarayan- My kitty went into remission with a food change and a weight loss. Although he is in the higher end of normal he is far from needing insulin now. I agree with what everyone says here that when a curve is done in a vet hospital situation they almost always dose at higher levels due to the stress causing higher BG readings. It happened with my kitty and he ended up with a minor hypo when I brought him home because his dose was too high. Very important to home test to see what the kitty is reading in a non stress environment. Good luck- I really hope the diet change is effective for you and Christian.

 

[Jainarayan]

Good luck- I really hope the diet change is effective for you and Christian.

Thanks, me too!

 

[Yong & Maury GA]

Science Diet Tender Tuna is on the food chart and is listed as 24% carbs for small cans and 25% carbs for big cans. That is too high to try and get Christian to be a diet controlled. Are you worried about the quality of Fancy Feast or Friskies? Does he not like pate? We'd love to hear he can be diet controlled but with those carbs, it is less likely. You want to aim for less than 10% carb foods

 

[AlphaCat]

The Wal-greens brand meter and strips are comparable to the Walmart brand, so that's just fine. At least with a bit of home testing in advance you'll be able to recognize if there's a big jump at the vet or to know what's normal.
Let us know if you need help, videos, or advice when you start to get your home numbers!

 

[Jainarayan]

The Wal-greens brand meter and strips are comparable to the Walmart brand, so that's just fine. At least with a bit of home testing in advance you'll be able to recognize if there's a big jump at the vet or to know what's normal.
Let us know if you need help, videos, or advice when you start to get your home numbers!

Very cool, thanks.

 

[Jainarayan]

Science Diet Tender Tuna is on the food chart and is listed as 24% carbs for small cans and 25% carbs for big cans. That is too high to try and get Christian to be a diet controlled. Are you worried about the quality of Fancy Feast or Friskies? Does he not like pate? We'd love to hear he can be diet controlled but with those carbs, it is less likely. You want to aim for less than 10% carb foods

Fancy Feast or Friskies or 9Lives is fine, no problem with them. I was actually surprised that "supermarket" brands are better than the more expensive brands. I knew Science Diet had to be in the 20s because it's not even on the food chart. I think I read somewhere that Dr. Pierson left out a number of Hill's products because they were so high. I suppose the ones not listed are to be particularly avoided. He's not eating the Hill's at all anymore, not since last weekend. It's not so much the texture of the pate, but the salmon flavor he didn't like. He liked the Fancy Feast Classic Ocean Whitefish & Tuna, Fancy Feast Classic Chicken Feast, and the Blue Buffalo Wilderness Wild Delights Chicken. Blue Buffalo is just at 10%. He'll get the Blue Buffalo, Fancy Feast, and I'll try some flavors of Friskies and/or 9Lives. I'll see which ones he likes.

 

[Yong & Maury GA]

Good luck!

 

[TempestsMum]

That's sounding promising quite a change from the start!

Definitely stick with the lower carb food for sure! You could reduce the carb count of the wilderness one by only mixing a couple of tbs in with what he's eating so it has the flavour but at 10% carbs I would only do that as a special treat and never the whole thing straight.

 

[Jainarayan]

That's sounding promising quite a change from the start!

Definitely stick with the lower carb food for sure! You could reduce the carb count of the wilderness one by only mixing a couple of tbs in with what he's eating so it has the flavour but at 10% carbs I would only do that as a special treat and never the whole thing straight.

I was thinking the same thing about mixing them to dilute the carbs. In fact that's what I did tonight. The whole amount was the equiv. of a 3 oz. can, which he devoured. He left only a little bit. If he's hungry later I'll give him more.

 

[Delores7]

Welcome Jainarayan & Christian! My cat was diagnosed just a week ago and my vet gave very bad dosing advice that I wouldnt have known about if it wasnt for the awesome pple here! A week ago i knew nothing about diabetes and now i know I can do this!They have walked me and Casey literally step by step thru a scary confusing time; I would be totally lost w/o this site.You have found the right place for you and Christian! My best to you both

 

[Jainarayan]

Welcome Jainarayan & Christian! My cat was diagnosed just a week ago and my vet gave very bad dosing advice that I wouldnt have known about if it wasnt for the awesome pple here! A week ago i knew nothing about diabetes and now i know I can do this!They have walked me and Casey literally step by step thru a scary confusing time; I would be totally lost w/o this site.You have found the right place for you and Christian! My best to you both

Thanks. I've certainly learned a heck of a lot in the past few days. The reassurance is priceless.

 

[Jainarayan]

Just another update (I promise I won't do this every day ). Or if there's a journals section I missed I'm cool with staff moving it.

He found a new toy! It's the strip torn off from the dogs' dry food bag. I saw him poking at it, so I picked it up and started waving it. He went nuts batting at it and grabbing it because it wiggles. I attached it to the string of one of his hanging toys, like a banner.

Here he is eating his second dish this morning. Each dish was the equiv. of a little more than a small can (Blue and FF mixed).



He used the litter box to poop, but he still uses the wee-wee pads. His fur acually looks better in person than in these pics.

 

[TempestsMum]

I love seeing updates!

He's just gorgeous, under the chin scritches from me!

 

[Delores7]

Just another update (I promise I won't do this every day ). Or if there's a journals section I missed I'm cool with staff moving it.

He found a new toy! It's the strip torn off from the dogs' dry food bag. I saw him poking at it, so I picked it up and started waving it. He went nuts batting at it and grabbing it because it wiggles. I attached it to the string of one of his hanging toys, like a banner.

Here he is eating his second dish this morning. Each dish was the equiv. of a little more than a small can (Blue and FF mixed).

View attachment 29979 View attachment 29980

He used the litter box to poop, but he still uses the wee-wee pads. His fur acually looks better in person than in these pics.

Awww he is so lovely...what a sweet guy he is. I know when my cat started wanting his tummy scratched the other day he was feeling some better.He hadnt done that in almost 3 weeks so it was a good sign on his part

 

[Jainarayan]

Thanks. I'm glad your furball is doing better too. Most of the time this guy's very mushy but other times he can be a real jerk and a brat, I mean really cranky. Things are usually on his terms. He developed a bad habit of hissing and growling really badly at the dogs when they came back from the groomer or the vet's office. And he started peeing where he shouldn't have. The doctor put him on fluoxetine, which put the hissing and growling to a stop. He was grooming his belly last night, which I haven't seen him do in a while.

The last time (before this trip) we went to the vet she said he has FORLs and recommended complete tooth extraction. According to the article: Clinical signs of TRs are often minimal since the discomfort can be minor. However, some authors have described discomfort while chewing, anorexia, dehydration, weight loss, and tooth fracture. Maybe that is part of his current condition. She said she discovered it after combing out the mats. She asked if I'd go for sedating him to comb him out, so I said yes. His fur looked terrible, it would mat seasonally, after winter, I could only do so much combing before he wanted to rip my face off. After the vet combed him out he looked great.

She put him on buprenorphine (I've since stopped it, but maybe that was a mistake) and said his fur got matted because his mouth is so painful. I asked how was he able to eat. She said cats don't chew, they swallow their food without chewing. I think he wasn't grooming himself partly because he's lazy, and maybe he was too fat to reach, as she said. Since she combed out the mats I can keep on top of his fur, I comb and brush him every other day or so. He actually likes it now... to a point. I know when to back off and pick up at a later time. But when I do it, I pick up the comb and say "Christian, comb? We do comb?" and he comes running. When it had some of his fur on it I let him sniff it so he knew it was his alone.

Those are the other things I want to bring up with the new vet. I know it sounds like I neglect him, but he really is a tough customer, and not the most compliant patient.

 

[Delores7]

Thanks. I'm glad your furball is doing better too. Most of the time this guy's very mushy but other times he can be a real jerk and a brat, I mean really cranky. Things are usually on his terms. He developed a bad habit of hissing and growling really badly at the dogs when they came back from the groomer or the vet's office. And he started peeing where he shouldn't have. The doctor put him on fluoxetine, which put the hissing and growling to a stop. He was grooming his belly last night, which I haven't seen him do in a while.

The last time (before this trip) we went to the vet she said he has FORLs and recommended complete tooth extraction. According to the article: Clinical signs of TRs are often minimal since the discomfort can be minor. However, some authors have described discomfort while chewing, anorexia, dehydration, weight loss, and tooth fracture. Maybe that is part of his current condition. She said she discovered it after combing out the mats. She asked if I'd go for sedating him to comb him out, so I said yes. His fur looked terrible, it would mat seasonally, after winter, I could only do so much combing before he wanted to rip my face off. After the vet combed him out he looked great.

She put him on buprenorphine (I've since stopped it, but maybe that was a mistake) and said his fur got matted because his mouth is so painful. I asked how was he able to eat. She said cats don't chew, they swallow their food without chewing. I think he wasn't grooming himself partly because he's lazy, and maybe he was too fat to reach, as she said. Since she combed out the mats I can keep on top of his fur, I comb and brush him every other day or so. He actually likes it now... to a point. I know when to back off and pick up at a later time. But when I do it, I pick up the comb and say "Christian, comb? We do comb?" and he comes running. When it had some of his fur on it I let him sniff it so he knew it was his alone.


Those are the other things I want to bring up with the new vet. I know it sounds like I neglect him, but he really is a tough customer, and not the most compliant patient.

Doesnt sound like you neglect him at all.i would say you are a very good concerned furdaddy. I dont know much about forls but was reading an atrticle on full mouth extraction and one responder said his kitty was doing awesome afterwards,but i know each cat and circumstances are different.I had a cat once that didnt like to be brushed for over 30 seconds. My cat Casey loves the ZoomGroom brush by Kong.Its soft rubber with large gentle 'teeth' that cant scratch skin like some brushes.Maybe Christian doesnt like his brush? hehe
I wish you both all the best with the new vet!

 

[Jainarayan]

I wish you both all the best with the new vet!

Thanks, and you know I'll give an update.

I have a glove that sounds similar to the ZoomGroom. That's what I call the brush. It does a pretty good job, though I use the comb also. He produces enough hair to make another cat. Though one of him is enough. The palm of the glove has rubber nubs that catch the hair. It's like petting and massaging all in one.

 

[Delores7]

Thanks, and you know I'll give an update.

I have a glove that sounds similar to the ZoomGroom. That's what I call the brush. It does a pretty good job, though I use the comb also. He produces enough hair to make another cat. Though one of him is enough. The palm of the glove has rubber nubs that catch the hair. It's like petting and massaging all in one.

LOL.. I know what u mean..for a short hair cat its crazy how much they can shed...your brush sounds so similar... I guess Christian is just a cat who doesnt like to be brushed alot..

 

[AlphaCat]

This is the place for updates! And we'll, anything cat.
If you do end up on insulin, the brand of insulin board might be better to get advice on dosing and procedure, as different insulins can be different.
The one thing that people aren't prepared for is needing help through a hypo event. If one happens don't post it on this thread, start a new one. There's a prefix box where you put your title, use the 911 one. It will get you help right away as a hypo event is an emergency situation. (Which I hope you never need.)

So keep the updates coming.

Playing is a good sigh! That's wonderful!
I have a non-diabetic cat who's long hair. I could brush him every day and he still gets mats. If he doesn't let me brush enough (like your boy, mine's in control) and I can't keep up with the mats, he gets shaved into a lion. He's currently a lion. This summer was hard with focusing more on Fabby and her diabetes. Poor Seamus just didn't get as much attention as I'd like. The first time we shaved him like a lion he was so mad at us. Like the Samson and Delilah story - we cut his hair and stole his power. This time though, he was so happy to be shaved (not the actual shaving part, but to be without the extra fluff). I guess he figured out his power isn't stored in his fur... and he is rockin' the lion!

 

[Jainarayan]

This is the place for updates! And we'll, anything cat.
If you do end up on insulin, the brand of insulin board might be better to get advice on dosing and procedure, as different insulins can be different.
The one thing that people aren't prepared for is needing help through a hypo event. If one happens don't post it on this thread, start a new one. There's a prefix box where you put your title, use the 911 one. It will get you help right away as a hypo event is an emergency situation. (Which I hope you never need.)

Great to know, thanks.

So keep the updates coming.

Playing is a good sigh! That's wonderful!
I have a non-diabetic cat who's long hair. I could brush him every day and he still gets mats. If he doesn't let me brush enough (like your boy, mine's in control) and I can't keep up with the mats, he gets shaved into a lion. He's currently a lion. This summer was hard with focusing more on Fabby and her diabetes. Poor Seamus just didn't get as much attention as I'd like. The first time we shaved him like a lion he was so mad at us. Like the Samson and Delilah story - we cut his hair and stole his power. This time though, he was so happy to be shaved (not the actual shaving part, but to be without the extra fluff). I guess he figured out his power isn't stored in his fur... and he is rockin' the lion!

I'm thinking that if his fur ever gets so badly matted again, I'll go for having him shaved. I'm sure he'll have to be sedated.

 

[AlphaCat]

Seamus is pretty easy going, but when he's done with something he's done. So shaving is a 2 person job, and sometimes a 2 day job, lol.

 

[JanetNJ]

LOL.. I know what u mean..for a short hair cat its crazy how much they can shed...your brush sounds so similar... I guess Christian is just a cat who doesnt like to be brushed alot..

I have a cat that won't let me brush her AT ALL. I've been brought her to a groomer a couple times when I just couldn't get the mats out without risking bodily injury. Lol

 

[Jainarayan]

We're home now from our appt. for the 2nd opinion. The doctor and her assistants were great. They asked a lot of questions about Christian's behavior, what I noticed and when, and took a lot of notes.

Anyway, his b.g. is indeed high, 388, but she said if he has a uti, that discomfort coupled with the stress of the visit could jack his b.g. up. He gained some weight, only about 100 g, but she said it's better than losing. She was very pleased he's eating the way he is, not drinking excessively and is acting normally. A couple of times he did a standing jump from the floor to the table. He still prefers the stepstool, the lazy sot.

So the doctor's not saying he doesn't have diabetes, but she's not yet convinced he does. She'll know more when she runs his blood work and urinalysis this week, and whether he'll need insulin or not.

Instead of hitting me all at once with a $600 bill for lab work like my regular vet wanted to do (or the option to watch him die) she recommended step by step, especially because of the costs. For example, she said the fructosamine test is not necessary right now.

So the tests we'll do this week come to $214; today's visit, b.g, test and specimen was $218. My regular vet would have had me at $742 all in one shot includinf the fructosamine. When and if it comes to it she'll teach me how to take his b.g. reading and give him the shots.

She recommends Fancy Feast, as you all did, and gave me a list. I told her I already started him on it and stopped the Hill's Science Diet canned and dry food. She said that is great, the way to do it.

 

[Delores7]

Sounds like you found a keeper of a vet.So glad it went so well for u both and that Christian is feeling better!

 

[Jainarayan]

I think that at least for Christian I will stick with this one.

 

[Jainarayan]

Btw, I told her he's not using the litter box. I said I put wee-wee pads where he goes. She asked how far away from the litter box did he start going. I said other rooms, the bathroom and a corner of the living room. She said he'd do that if he does have a uti and associates it with the litter box.

 

[AlphaCat]

Btw, I told her he's not using the litter box. I said I put wee-wee pads where he goes. She asked how far away from the litter box did he start going. I said other rooms, the bathroom and a corner of the living room. She said he'd do that if he does have a uti and associates it with the litter box.

I'm so glad your u took him in. Urinary problems can get really bad really fast.
When do you get the results of the tests?

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm so glad your u took him in. Urinary problems can get really bad really fast.
When do you get the results of the tests?

Probably the end of the week. I told her that unfortunately I have to wait due to $$ concerns. I asked how long the specimens are good for. She said 1 week. I asked if waiting would be a problem for Christian, of course I'm worried. She said no he's not in any distress, just keep him on his diet and watch. But if I can see my way clear I'll call her to run the tests sooner.

 

[TempestsMum]

That's fantastic news! Really happy you got that second opinion and found a good vet, that one sounds like a keeper!
Will be waiting to hear an update on how it all goes with the bg and test results.

 

[Jainarayan]

Just a bit of an update...

Christian did wee-wee in the litter box this morning! It was a decent amount, his usual. This was the first time in about 2 weeks. I was so happy I almost cried (meh, I'm a big mush, so sue me ). He's been using it to poop, but not to wee-wee. Whatever was bothering him that he wasn't doing wee-wee in it has stopped, at least for now. I did not make a big deal of it with him, in fact I ignored it. I didn't want him to think it was something special (well, to me it was).

He's back to doing his usual kooky things, like playing with his tail. He swats at it, grabs it, bites it then runs off screaming and hissing; he's talking a blue streak; sacking out in his usual spots; running to me when I come in the door; eating like a long-haul trucker; his coat even looks better.

He seems to love Fancy Feast.We're feeding him 3, occasionally 4 times a day... b'fast, lunch, dinner. The 4th time is usually 1/2 can for a snack if he starts begging. In short, you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him 2 weeks ago. I 'm waiting for the results of his tests. I should have them in a day or so. I'm anxious to see what they show.

 

[Jainarayan]

The doctor called this afternoon with Christian's results.

• Blood glucose was 400ish.
• Fructosamine was about 540. She said the range is about 120-450. I may have misheard the actual numbers but she said it was higher than it should be.
• Red & white blood cell counts were normal.
• Urinalysis showed some glucose but no infection or ketones.
• No indication of a crystals problem.
• Lipids were good.
• Thyroid was good.
• Slightly elevated liver enzymes. She mentioned a couple of reasons for it but she wasn't concerned.

In short, everything was normal exception his sugar. He's definitely diabetic, but whether he needs insulin remains to be seen. She wants me to get keto/glucose sticks to test his urine instead of testing his blood at this point. She wants me to start this asap and let her know what they show.

She asked how he is doing. I told her he eats, plays, jumps, talks, etc. But he used the wee-wee pad this morning instead of the litter box. She said that's the diabetes but was glad to hear he's better than he was. She said the food is a big help.

She asked if I'd be able to give him shots if he needs them. She won't be able to demonstrate on him because he doesn't like being at the hospital. That's a gross understatement. As long as he doesn't fight me I can do it. I used to give my Misty shots of epinephrine and depomedrol for her acute asthma attacks.

So that's where we are now.

 

[JanetNJ]

The doctor called this afternoon with Christian's results.

• Blood glucose was 400ish.
• Fructosamine was about 540. She said the range is about 120-450. I may have misheard the actual numbers but she said it was higher than it should be.
• Red & white blood cell counts were normal.
• Urinalysis showed some glucose but no infection or ketones.
• No indication of a crystals problem.
• Lipids were good.
• Thyroid was good.
• Slightly elevated liver enzymes. She mentioned a couple of reasons for it but she wasn't concerned.

In short, everything was normal exception his sugar. He's definitely diabetic, but whether he needs insulin remains to be seen. She wants me to get keto/glucose sticks to test his urine instead of testing his blood at this point. She wants me to start this asap and let her know what they show.

She asked how he is doing. I told her he eats, plays, jumps, talks, etc. But he used the wee-wee pad this morning instead of the litter box. She said that's the diabetes but was glad to hear he's better than he was. She said the food is a big help.

She asked if I'd be able to give him shots if he needs them. She won't be able to demonstrate on him because he doesn't like being at the hospital. That's a gross understatement. As long as he doesn't fight me I can do it. I used to give my Misty shots of epinephrine and depomedrol for her acute asthma attacks.

So that's where we are now.

Definitely time to start insulin. The sooner the better.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Definitely needs insulin. Urine sticks are not accurate enough to base dosing on. It only proves his blood glucose is high and spilling out.

Ketone urine test is something to start. Anything over a trace amount needs attention. You can pick them up at any pharmacy.

My opinion is finish removing the dry food, start home testing and insulin quickly before it's gets out of hand.

 

[Jainarayan]

Definitely time to start insulin. The sooner the better.

Yeah, it's probably going to be this week when I see her. I should start practicing the skin pinch on him before using the actual syringe to get him used to it. If I have to take blood from his ears he's already used to me playing with them.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Start a routine now. Find a spot to use for testing. Get him there at the times you will test, pet him, play with ears. Even turn meter on so he gets use to the beep, or turn beeps off. Then say (until you actually do) "stick or poke" apply pressure like you will after actual stick, praise him and give low carb treat. Do it twice a day at the times you will do it. This will give you a good head start.

 

[Jainarayan]

Definitely needs insulin. Urine sticks are not accurate enough to base dosing on. It only proves his blood glucose is high and spilling out.

Ketone urine test is something to start. Anything over a trace amount needs attention. You can pick them up at any pharmacy.

My opinion is finish removing the dry food, start home testing and insulin quickly before it's gets out of hand.

He's been off dry for two weeks, eating only canned. I stopped it immediately, the day we saw our regular vet.

I used to use keto/glucose sticks when I did a cyclic keto diet for myself. Everyone I knew who used them was obsessed with being "kicked out" of ketosis. Every pharmacy I passed today was closed by the time I got there. I'll get the sticks tomorrow.

 

[Olive & Paula]

He's been off dry for two weeks, eating only canned. I stopped it immediately, the day we saw our regular vet.

I used to use keto/glucose sticks when I did a cyclic keto diet for myself. Everyone I knew who used them was obsessed with being "kicked out" of ketosis. Every pharmacy I passed today was closed by the time I got there. I'll get the sticks tomorrow.

In this case you do NOT want ketosis for Christian.

 

[Jainarayan]

In this case you do NOT want ketosis for Christian.

Agreed, definitely not something I want to see for him! He's diabetic, I never was.

 

[AlphaCat]

Please start home testing for glucose tomorrow.
Your cat is diabetic.
You're about to make decisions on dosing insulin (or no insulin) on numbers that are the least accurate if you're not testing at home. And while I'm sure you will eventually get to the right place with dosing that could take a long time and only Christian suffers for it in the mean time. Having the dosing determined by the fuctosamine is downright dangerous as that's an average over 2-3 weeks. What's happened over the last few weeks, well, there's multiple trips to the vet, and a diet change... These are not even close to an accurate picture of what is going on with your cat right now.
Even if your vet does a blood draw in office to determine dosing on your next visit, Christian is stressed out at a place he doesn't like. That number won't be accurate.
Please, please begin home testing. Gather data, so when you get to the vet you can make an informed decision that is as close to accurate as possible for Christian and his health. I can not stress this more. Bouncing is detrimental to diabetes regulation, hypo events are life threatening, and these things are always better with monitoring at home.

I'm sorry if I come across as preachy, I've been here over the last few weeks waiting for Christian's concerns to be resolved and a plan made, I'm invested. The diagnosis has come in, and this time it's trustworthy.
It's time to start testing, today if possible. I hate that your vet told you it wasn't necessary. I also hate that they did a fructosamine, when glucose could have been measired right there in office with a cheap meter. It was a waste of your money, and you've already been had by the previous vet.
The sooner you begin gathering info, the better care your boy will be able to receive. And that's all I'd like for your sugar-cat. If you need help, we're here.