Kris & Teasel
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The PSs can also fall is a bounce is clearing.
? Tonight's dose - falling numbers after stalling. Advice please!
- Thread starter Jen and Alfie
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Jen and Alfie
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He is faaaast asleep (why he's sleeping in the corner of our guest room, who knows!). At least he's not in the kitchen begging for food for once!
I'll retest in 15 mins which will be +5.5. If he's up again do you think I'm safe to go to bed or should stay up anothe hour to be sure?
And any advice in advance for tomorrow morning? I can't be around to monitor so would rather play it safe. But he's generally been higher in the mornings so I'm usually less worried, but after this evening, who knows!
I guess it depends on his AMPS, if he's in the 30's then 3.25U will probably be fine.
I'll retest in 15 mins which will be +5.5. If he's up again do you think I'm safe to go to bed or should stay up anothe hour to be sure?
And any advice in advance for tomorrow morning? I can't be around to monitor so would rather play it safe. But he's generally been higher in the mornings so I'm usually less worried, but after this evening, who knows!
I guess it depends on his AMPS, if he's in the 30's then 3.25U will probably be fine.
Yong & Maury GA
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Just fashionably late
. The only one that might be on is Djamila. 06:00 UK time would be 22:00 PST / 01:00 EST until Daylight savings.
Yong & Maury GA
Very Active Member
After this lime green tonight, I might suggest lowering to 2.75U in the morning (numbers permitting) since he may be a little insulin sensitive and you won't be around. Let's see what the others think 
Jen and Alfie
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Kris & Teasel
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He looks very relaxed.Just so you can all see who you've been helping!
This is him tonight, it used to be a pretty standard position for him until he was diagnosed and just wanted food all the time!
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Re tomorrow AM: it's hard to know because he went to lime green with only 1.5 u. Yong has suggested 2.75 u. His lows are at night so this could work as a daytime dose.
Jen and Alfie
Member
Ok, so just retested at +5.5, he's at 14.9, so I think I'm fairly safe to go to bed!
Things I've learnt tonight:
- High carb food straight away at the first sight of lime green numbers might be a slight over reaction
- The food in gravy we've got in the house really works to get his numbers up!
- Flea treatment might have some weird magical blood sugar lowering properties (but probably not)
- I can't assume what any cycle will do at the minute and just have to play it by ear!
- We can get through an almost hypo event with the help of all you lovely people!
Thank you all so much for all your help. I'm off to bed and hope I sleep as soundly as Alfie bear is doing right now! I will update you all tomorrow. Night night
Things I've learnt tonight:
- High carb food straight away at the first sight of lime green numbers might be a slight over reaction
- The food in gravy we've got in the house really works to get his numbers up!
- Flea treatment might have some weird magical blood sugar lowering properties (but probably not)
- I can't assume what any cycle will do at the minute and just have to play it by ear!
- We can get through an almost hypo event with the help of all you lovely people!
Thank you all so much for all your help. I'm off to bed and hope I sleep as soundly as Alfie bear is doing right now! I will update you all tomorrow. Night night
Djamila
Very Active Member
That looks like one sleepy kitty!
There are a couple of theories on the cycle after a hypo.
1. reduce the dose right away to the last safe dose. (3u)
2. reduce the dose more than the last safe dose because he may be insulin sensitive (as Yong said) (2.75u)
3. hold the higher dose for one more cycle since it will most likely be a high flat cycle, and then reduce for the cycle after that (3.25u for the next cycle, 3.0u for the cycle after that)
Now here's the really lousy part. We don't know which option is best. It's one of those things where you kind of have to try one and see how your kitty responds and then know for next time. Although of course since they are cats, next time might be different. But it at least gives you an idea.
If you can't monitor tomorrow, then I'd lean toward option 2 and reduce the dose for the next cycle. It may leave him a bit high tomorrow, but it's the safest option.
Of course all of that is dependent on him giving you a normal or higher pre-shot in the morning. If it's lower, you're going to have to really use your best judgement and definitely give a much reduced dose, like one unit.
Sleep well!
There are a couple of theories on the cycle after a hypo.
1. reduce the dose right away to the last safe dose. (3u)
2. reduce the dose more than the last safe dose because he may be insulin sensitive (as Yong said) (2.75u)
3. hold the higher dose for one more cycle since it will most likely be a high flat cycle, and then reduce for the cycle after that (3.25u for the next cycle, 3.0u for the cycle after that)
Now here's the really lousy part. We don't know which option is best. It's one of those things where you kind of have to try one and see how your kitty responds and then know for next time. Although of course since they are cats, next time might be different. But it at least gives you an idea.
If you can't monitor tomorrow, then I'd lean toward option 2 and reduce the dose for the next cycle. It may leave him a bit high tomorrow, but it's the safest option.
Of course all of that is dependent on him giving you a normal or higher pre-shot in the morning. If it's lower, you're going to have to really use your best judgement and definitely give a much reduced dose, like one unit.
Sleep well!
Jen and Alfie
Member
Yes, I agree. Assuming I get a normal (20's or 30's) preshot I'll give him 2.75u just in case he's more sensitive after tonight. If it's lower than usual I'll go with 1u. I can monitor more closely tomorrow night so we'll just have to see what he decides to do tomorrow! Thanks again all!
Jen and Alfie
Member
AMPS 40.2 
Neg ketones
Gave 2.75u. I figure if he's in for a black cycle then no amount of insulin will help, and if he does respond then that will get him out of the very high numbers without us worrying too much while at work today! Will test at +2 to see how he's doing.
Might go back to 3u tonight if he has a normal PMPS.
Neg ketonesGave 2.75u. I figure if he's in for a black cycle then no amount of insulin will help, and if he does respond then that will get him out of the very high numbers without us worrying too much while at work today! Will test at +2 to see how he's doing.
Might go back to 3u tonight if he has a normal PMPS.
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Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Not unexpected after his low lime green He's very bouncy so the drama is Alfie being Alfie. It's important with very bouncy kitties to pay more attention to how low they go and give only a nod to the high bounce numbers. Your dose shouldn't change immediately in reaction to a high bounce BG. Let it run at the "normal" dose for a few cycles to see where you land when the bounce clears (usually - but not always - in up to 6 cycles).AMPS 40.2
Gave 2.75u. I figure if he's in for a black cycle then no amount of insulin will help, and if he does respond then that will get him out of the very high numbers without us worrying too much while at work today! Will test at +2 to see how he's doing.
Might go back to 3u tonight if he has a normal PMPS.
Jen and Alfie
Member
Yes, I knew he'd be bouncing quite high after yesterday's adventure. He'd come down at +2 though and I've managed to come home this afternoon and have tested again at +8 and he's a little bit lower still.
Understood, I won't do any dramatic dose changes in response to bounces. But have we decided that 3.25 is possibly a bit too much? Should I go back to 2.75 or 3u as the 'normal' dose for a few cycles and see what happens? Assuming I get a normal preshot number of course.
Can they just become more responsive to insulin once they've seen better numbers for a while?
Understood, I won't do any dramatic dose changes in response to bounces. But have we decided that 3.25 is possibly a bit too much? Should I go back to 2.75 or 3u as the 'normal' dose for a few cycles and see what happens? Assuming I get a normal preshot number of course.
Can they just become more responsive to insulin once they've seen better numbers for a while?
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Djamila
Very Active Member
I think Alfie's just going to be tricky for a bit here. If you look around at lots of different spreadsheets, you'll see that kitties go up the dosing scale for awhile, and then they slide down, and then sometimes they go back up, and then slide down again...rinse and repeat. Or sometimes they just slide down and go into remission. That's what we all hope for, but sometimes just getting regulated is hard enough!
So this is the trial-and-error phase when you're going to have to just try some things, and monitor, and some will work and some won't. I think I'd go with either 2.75 or 3 for tonight - leaning toward 2.75 since he nearly reached 50% today. Then maybe consider doing a slightly different AM and PM dose. So maybe 3u AM and 2.75uPM Or 3.25 for the AM cycle and 3u for the evening cycle and see what that does. He's still way way too high during the day, but those evening cycles are a little stress-inducing.
Curious what everyone else will say, since again, this is kind of a guessing game.
So this is the trial-and-error phase when you're going to have to just try some things, and monitor, and some will work and some won't. I think I'd go with either 2.75 or 3 for tonight - leaning toward 2.75 since he nearly reached 50% today. Then maybe consider doing a slightly different AM and PM dose. So maybe 3u AM and 2.75uPM Or 3.25 for the AM cycle and 3u for the evening cycle and see what that does. He's still way way too high during the day, but those evening cycles are a little stress-inducing.
Curious what everyone else will say, since again, this is kind of a guessing game.
Jen and Alfie
Member
Oh...yay! I was afraid you were going to say that!
I'm thinking I should back off to 2.75 for tonight too (providing he gives me a pre shot in the mid 20's or above) and just see what happens. I've not idea why his day and night cycles are so different, I know some kitties run lower at night but he's quite extreme! Though when he started on Prozinc he was the other way around for a little bit. Go figure!
Djamila
Very Active Member
Lol...they have to keep it interesting for us, right? Kitties loooove attention!
Sam spent a lot of time with different AM/PM doses. He mostly runs lower at night, but there was a phase in the middle where he was lower during the day. Alfie's might be caused also by the lows at night, and just having a high-flat cycle as a response to the big drops. It's sort of a safety mechanism for them since the low makes them release stored glucose (or so I've read) which causes the next cycle to run higher. I keep thinking he's going to get a low AM cycle one of these days, but then the dose keeps needing to be adjusted. Sigh...all in good time, right?
Sam spent a lot of time with different AM/PM doses. He mostly runs lower at night, but there was a phase in the middle where he was lower during the day. Alfie's might be caused also by the lows at night, and just having a high-flat cycle as a response to the big drops. It's sort of a safety mechanism for them since the low makes them release stored glucose (or so I've read) which causes the next cycle to run higher. I keep thinking he's going to get a low AM cycle one of these days, but then the dose keeps needing to be adjusted. Sigh...all in good time, right?
Jen and Alfie
Member
Oh yeah, wouldn't be any fun if they made it too easy for us! 
Sam's numbers look great, I'd be super happy with all blues and greens right now! Wanna swap?
Sam's numbers look great, I'd be super happy with all blues and greens right now! Wanna swap?
Jen and Alfie
Member
Oh poor Sam, luckily that's one thing Alfie doesn't suffer from. I used to have a cat with terrible digestive problems, it's hard work!
Jen and Alfie
Member
PMPS 30.2
He was super playful and energetic just before his test, I was convinced it would be unusually low.
Sticking with 2.75u so he can try and settle down again for a few cycles without a repeat of last night so we can get some sleep!
Increasing his morning dose slightly to 3u, as @Djamila suggested, does seem like a good move, since his morning numbers are still so high. What do you all think?
Or, as suggested, maybe his high mornings are just caused by his low nights at the minute, and we'll just end up flipping him round to low mornings and high nights!
He was super playful and energetic just before his test, I was convinced it would be unusually low.
Sticking with 2.75u so he can try and settle down again for a few cycles without a repeat of last night so we can get some sleep!
Increasing his morning dose slightly to 3u, as @Djamila suggested, does seem like a good move, since his morning numbers are still so high. What do you all think?
Or, as suggested, maybe his high mornings are just caused by his low nights at the minute, and we'll just end up flipping him round to low mornings and high nights!
Yong & Maury GA
Very Active Member
Sounds good to me
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