? Need help to avoid potential hypo & help with am shot

[apple]

Ok I'm having a new experience. Pmps is 136

Never has any preshot number been in the 100s.

Skipping the shot will shot him to the moon. Reducing the shot isn't how your supposed to do the go slow.

For some reason he's been higher in the am and lower in the pm. I don't know why.

He's experienced numbers in the 100s on a curve. Not a 100s for a preshot.

How do I set him up for success? The vet has not established a new don't inject number. He said 200 for the first week.

I've added a photo of my log. It shows amps and pmps. Curves and inbetween tests are not all show.

What choices are there between regular dose 1.5u and risk going low; and no shot and shoot the numbers to the sky?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: clearer photo with data moved to next reply.

 

[apple]

This photo looked a little clearer and easier to read.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Are you able to monitor - take tests every hour if need be for another 5-7 hours?
Do you have enough strips, lancets and most important honey, Karo, Maple syrup and high / medium carb food with gravy available?
Will he eat little portions when you need him - every half an hour/hour?
Do you feel comfortable with this preshot?

Best of all is that your post is bumped up - see what others have to say. I have no SLGL experience.

 

[apple]

I have strips, lancets, kayro, ff gravy lovers. I can monitor....have caffeine.

He doesn't eat on demand. He is not food driven. Have plenty of syringes for force feeding.

I have no idea what I think of the number other than:
1. It's drastically out of the norm for him
2. It's part of the process and at some point I need to suck it up and get brave with lower numbers
3. This was easier when I was stupid; before you all started teaching me......now, the number makes me think before I do
4. Just not sure what to do it keep him safest I can.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

You can try waiting half an hour, without feeding, and test again to see if he's come up to a number you are OK with shooting.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

1. It's drastically out of the norm for him

norms change all the time

2. It's part of the process and at some point I need to suck it up and get brave with lower numbers

you must feel confident that you are able to feed - gravy or Karo/honey when he lowers too fast, too early, too low

4. Just not sure what to do it keep him safest I can.

I think testing/feeding on time, post for help but you must feel up to it.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Is there a new reading results?

 

[apple]

Two hours past injection time and he is up to 226.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Two hours past injection time and he is up to 226.

If you shoot two hours later you can return to your reg shoot time by 15 min per cycle/ 30 min per 24 hours increments.
Did you give the injection?

 

[apple]

No, waiting to see if he will eat on his own or have to force feed. Prefer to give him 10-15 before force feeding.

Should I test minimum hourly tonight?

 

[apple]

If you shoot two hours later you can return to your reg shoot time by 15 min per cycle/ 30 min per 24 hours increments.
Did you give the injection?

Two hours late in the am isn't doable because I will be at work.

Injecting on time would result in acting like a dose increase.

Morning ideas?

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

No, waiting to see if he will eat on his own or have to force feed. Prefer to give him 10-15 before force feeding.

Should I test minimum hourly tonight?

At what time did you inject - and what is the time zone?

Was it the full dose of 1.5U?

Has he eaten/have you fed?

If you gave the shot when he was 226 and eaten his regular meal I would make sure to test at +2 and then it will be clear how often do you need to test. If lower than 226 - take next hour test as well, watch his behavior and test early than +3 if acts odd. If the +2 is higher - maybe take the +4 and see what it's like.

Injecting on time would result in acting like a dose increase.

That's right.

Plan for the morning: I cannot help here. Sorry.If you shoot early you must stay home and monitor but you work. If you skip you might send his BGs thru the roof. I would add "Help with AM shot" to your current title. I hope you speak with someone with good solid experience before you plan. Edit the title now - there are plenty of people online at the moment but it getting late in the East Coast.

 

[apple]

2.5 hours past injection time
273
Has had his snack

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

2.5 hours past injection time
273
Has had his snack
Giving injection

Time zone?

 

[apple]

Time zone?

Central time zone united states

Held of injection after reading your last post

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Held of injection after reading your last post

About the morning?
Hmm @Kris & Teasel ; @Wendy&Neko
let's see if anyone online to help with that.

@Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

@Bobbie And Bubba

 

[apple]

Had to call the ball.
Gave 1u (reduced dose from 1.5)

 

[Supurrkitten]

I have strips, lancets, kayro, ff gravy lovers. I can monitor....have caffeine.

He doesn't eat on demand. He is not food driven. Have plenty of syringes for force feeding.

I have no idea what I think of the number other than:
1. It's drastically out of the norm for him
2. It's part of the process and at some point I need to suck it up and get brave with lower numbers
3. This was easier when I was stupid; before you all started teaching me......now, the number makes me think before I do
4. Just not sure what to do it keep him safest I can.

Just a few days ago I wrote a similar post. Mine was 88, I skipped and I wish I would have shot something. Tonight I shot 108, and I get the fear. I get the wish to be stupid.

When you are comfortable you will be able to shoot this number. It will be ok. You can do this.

 

[apple]

Had to call the ball.
Gave 1u (reduced dose from 1.5)
Tested at 273
2.5 hours after shot time
Has had self fed snack.

 

[apple]

Just a few days ago I wrote a similar post. Mine was 88, I skipped and I wish I would have shot something. Tonight I shot 108, and I get the fear. I get the wish to be stupid.

When you are comfortable you will be able to shoot this number. It will be ok. You can do this.

If we are wishing....I wish I would have shot at 226....he didn't need to get to 273.

Still not sure what to do for the am.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Had to call the ball.
Gave 1u (reduced dose from 1.5)

Ok, I will be online. Can you please test at +2 and post? I'll check in with you. This cycle is still influenced by the past doses depot of 1.5U and some action might be expected. Better test and stay on the safe side.
Re: am shot. If you hear nothing from more experienced ( which I hope you will) I'd give a token dose - very little at your reg time or, 12 hours from this last shot.

I hope some reads and correct me.

ETA: It is FAR from ideal, but it is all I can think of.

 

[apple]

Ok, I will be online. Can you please test at +2 and post? I'll check in with you. This cycle is still influenced by the past doses depot of 1.5U and some action might be expected. Better test and stay on the safe side.
Re: am shot. If you hear nothing from more experienced ( which I hope you will) I'd give a token dose - very little at your reg time or, 12 hours from this last shot.

I hope some reads and correct me.

ETA: It is FAR from ideal, but it is all I can think of.

Please explain the far from ideal. I don't understand. That I didn't give a dose at 136 or that I gave a reduced dose or something else?

 

[Supurrkitten]

Since scouring the SLGS posts I agree if you give earlier than the 2.5 hours late definitely give a token dose. If you give w/in a half an hour of he 12 hour mark it is up to you. You know your kitty's trends. You can work back to your old test/feed/shoot time by backing up in 15 minute increments, it depends on your cat if 30 min is a big deal to them. You adjusted the dose. just try to watch the post for help from more experienced folks. Good luck

 

[apple]

I'm heading to get supplies set out and organized.

Will test at +1 and +2 and post.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Please explain the far from ideal. I don't understand. That I didn't give a dose at 136 or that I gave a reduced dose or something else?

I meant my own advise of giving a token dose in the AM after already reduced PM dose is far from ideal because this strategy will warrant high numbers.
The depot will be drained by tomorrow - at least partially. Then the cycle will go on the token dose - highers numbers yet.
But this will allow you to go to work and have some peace f mind and to keep the schedule as fits best for you.
Personally I would give the full dose tonight at BG 273 and a token one - <0.25u? in the AM. But it is my own opinion only. I am very flexible with my schedule and have no practical experience for the shoot time moving.

I still hope someone will weigh in on the morning plan.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Does it matter what type of syrup you have for the cat? I went healthy and got this. Wondering if I should have gotten the high fructose kind. Maybe this wasn't the time to do healthy.View attachment 28549 View attachment 28550

Cats+ corn syrup doesn't sound healthy at all to me. But we do what we have to. Syrup for me is very heavy gun in the battle.
I think you maybe all right with just pouring some MC/HC gravy over his regular food instead of the syrup. And - if you need it at all. The +2 will tell more as to what's on the menu.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I still hope someone will weigh in on the morning plan.

Without a spreadsheet, I don't feel comfortable giving suggestions.

 

[apple]

Supply check:
Anything I should add?

 

[apple]

Without a spreadsheet, I don't feel comfortable giving suggestions.

this is the best there is at this time

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Your signature lists food allergies. Do yo know which foods?
Gravy from FF contains wheat gluten, corn starch, soy protein, some has tuna. Are any of these are allergens for your kitty?

Without a spreadsheet, I don't feel comfortable giving suggestions.

I agree with that completely. Without seen how he did in the past on that dose any suggestion is more of a guesswork. I responded for the low pre-shot post but as I said I am no good for the AM plans. HERE is the link to "Shoot the low numbers" Sticky - print it out. Your supplies box seems to be ok.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Had to call the ball.
Gave 1u (reduced dose from 1.5)

Any new result yet?

 

[apple]

Your signature lists food allergies. Do yo know which foods?
Gravy from FF contains wheat gluten, corn starch, soy protein, some has tuna. Are any of these are allergens for your kitty?

I agree with that completely. Without seen how he did in the past on that dose any suggestion is more of a guesswork. I responded for the low pre-shot post but as I said I am no good for the AM plans. HERE is the link to "Shoot the low numbers" Sticky - print it out. Your supplies box seems to be ok.

No fish and no fish oils

The dates is in the photo, it looks different from what you are used to. It shows amps/pmps\ date /dose. Formatting is different. Each vet wanting something different in a spreadsheet set-up and yet another version here has become overwhelming to try and please everyone.

 

[apple]

Any new result yet?

313 @ +1

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

313 @ +1

I think you both going to be ok but as I am a worry wart I'd take the +2 test.
The +1 is largely food.
The +2 is better at predicting what's in store.
See you in an hour for the +2 results.

The dates is in the photo, it looks different from what you are used to. It shows amps/pmps\ date /dose. Formatting is different. Each vet wanting something different in a spreadsheet set-up and yet another version here has become overwhelming to try and please everyone.

AMPS and PMPS tests alone are not enough to analyze and offer informed opinion. You need to have random mid cycle data in to see how he dose throughout the daily hours and nightly - yes, cats react differently to the same amount of insulin and the same volume of food in the day and night and vary in reaction from day to day. Living organism isn't a piece of machinery.

Also you need to know when the insulin kicks in - the onset, when is nadir - the lowest point, and what is the duration of the insulin being active. Only having tests at different times thru 24 hours for a time can you learn your cat's responses. It is not the question of being pleased or wishing for the info been presented in a favorable format- to offer advice to benefit of the cat one must read the data. Our spreadsheet format here is very convenient and allows those are to help you to actually being able to help. Any way I can convince you try our format out?

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

What was the +2 like?

 

[apple]

I think you both going to be ok but as I am a worry wart I'd take the +2 test.
The +1 is largely food.
The +2 is better at predicting what's in store.
See you in an hour for the +2 results.

AMPS and PMPS tests alone are not enough to analyze and offer informed opinion. You need to have random mid cycle data in to see how he dose throughout the daily hours and nightly - yes, cats react differently to the same amount of insulin and the same volume of food in the day and night and vary in reaction from day to day. Living organism isn't a piece of machinery.

Also you need to know when the insulin kicks in - the onset, when is nadir - the lowest point, and what is the duration of the insulin being active. Only having tests at different times thru 24 hours for a time can you learn your cat's responses. It is not the question of being pleased or wishing for the info been presented in a favorable format- to offer advice to benefit of the cat one must read the data. Our spreadsheet format here is very convenient and allows those are to help you to actually being able to help. Any way I can convince you try our format out?

No convincing needed. Time needed. I have a semi started sheet that I did wrong and a very nice member tried to explain how to fix it and I don't know how. My kitty has university dvms, gp dvms, and Er dvms. Each requests the data their own way. Last week, one vet drew the type of graph he wanted. In my head I laughed, it was the first one I did here and shared and it went over like a lead balloon. He is adding a dermatologist to his list of dvms and an internal medicine dvm.

That's part of why I stick to alpha track. I can't worry that anyone of them would forget his info was taken on a human meter and I don't have time to remind them and quiz them every time a protocol is changed. When they discuss amongst themselves, I can't chance one of them will forget if I'm not in the conversation and reminding them.

As far as random data. I do curves and have various +here + there along the way. I didn't make it to the master sheet I have shown in the photo.

Here, I try to stick with nondose questions and checking my understanding of a concept to make sure I'm doing the best I can to teach myself, I already know no spreadsheet in fdmb form, and the reply usually is: need it in this form before helping. It is what it is. There are no more hours in a day.

I have severe double vision. The spread sheet gives me a headache and I can spend only a few minutes at a time on it and since I did it wrong for here. I moved on. Moved to getting the priority dvms their sheets. The time commitment to get 17+vets their info and have continuing conversations, getting them up to speed on other vets & and get them all going in the same direction is daunting some days.

In terms of fdmb, he is a decidedly pink kitty, hangs out with the yellows too and for good measure throws in a blue here and there.

bg @ +2ish is 284
Next test in an hour

 

[apple]

What was the +2 like?

284 @ +2

His day today was
336

+1
335

+6
234

Pmps
136

Stall 1 hour
226

Stall 2.5 hours
273
Injection 1.o units

 

[apple]

@Tanya and Ducia
Thank you so much for your time and your help with my little kitty. I appreciate it more than you could ever understand.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

bg @ +2ish is 284
Next test in an hour

I think you can skip to the +4 so his ears have a little break.

 

[apple]

I think you can skip to the +4 so his ears have a little break.

He tests via his paw pads. I'll keep going through his medical routine and do a +4.

Since his insulin was late, all other meds are late as well......sleep is over rated anyhow.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Since his insulin was late, all other meds are late as well......sleep is over rated anyhow.

Sending . As you might see in my spreadsheet I know just too well about the sleep
The +2=284 is most like means you are free from testing but since you are up anyway for the meds then sure, take other times. The +4 for instance is going to be useful and new number in your SS.

When you will discuss tonight's events with someone on the Board re: dose/schedule tell them about tonight like this "PMPS @+14.5 ( two and a half hour later in local slang) was 273, +1 313, +2 284" and so on about other tests after the PMPS, you may found it convenient to write it in the same fashion in your log - in the same line you write the PMPS, it will sort of help us speak the same language. I see members here and there posting "History: Date/AMPS XXX, gave Bupe+other meds & fed X amount of X% carbs food, +3 XXX three hours after meal, +7 XX; PMPS XXX fed xxx, +2 XX, etc". This way even if there is no spreadsheet the reader sees at once what have happened before the question/ request for help.

I do understand the difficulty with SS and dealing with many doctors who request things be done their way. Sorry to hear about the vision trouble and wish you beat it with proper remedy soon.

The member who helped you with the spreadsheet before - I am absolutely sure she will help again if you ask.

I am going to be online for a while after I get some food and will look in to you both. Post. Reply to your own thread later on so it goes up on the board and become visible to the people to are online later on - you still need that AM/schedule question helped with, edit the title to reflect the current need - the lower pre shot is figured out now, right?

If I told you my adventures on the beginning - the way I used the Forum or didn't know how to reply or what a title was you'd be laughing until tomorrow lunch time. It took me over 3 weeks to figure out what the SS is and how to post data in there WITH someone's generous help! Now I got it.

 

[apple]

Sending . As you might see in my spreadsheet I know just too well about the sleep
The +2=284 is most like means you are free from testing but since you are up anyway for the meds then sure, take other times. The +4 for instance is going to be useful and new number in your SS.

When you will discuss tonight's events with someone on the Board re: dose/schedule tell them about tonight like this "PMPS @+14.5 ( two and a half hour later in local slang) was 273, +1 313, +2 284" and so on about other tests after the PMPS, you may found it convenient to write it in the same fashion in your log - in the same line you write the PMPS, it will sort of help us speak the same language. I see members here and there posting "History: Date/AMPS XXX, gave Bupe+other meds & fed X amount of X% carbs food, +3 XXX three hours after meal, +7 XX; PMPS XXX fed xxx, +2 XX, etc". This way even if there is no spreadsheet the reader sees at once what have happened before the question/ request for help.

I do understand the difficulty with SS and dealing with many doctors who request things be done their way. Sorry to hear about the vision trouble and wish you beat it with proper remedy soon.

The member who helped you with the spreadsheet before - I am absolutely sure she will help again if you ask.

I am going to be online for a while after I get some food and will look in to you both. Post. Reply to your own thread later on so it goes up on the board and become visible to the people to are online later on - you still need that AM/schedule question helped with, edit the title to reflect the current need - the lower pre shot is figured out now, right?

If I told you my adventures on the beginning - the way I used the Forum or didn't know how to reply or what a title was you'd be laughing until tomorrow lunch time. It took me over 3 weeks to figure out what the SS is and how to post data in there WITH someone's generous help! Now I got it.

He came out and asked for his test.
At almost +3 he was 236

This am it took about until +6 to do that.....
He also had his dex, so he should have done a little spike.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

He came out and asked for his test.
At almost +3 he was 236

Good to hear he came himself! And the number - 50 points lower than the +4 - it is good you are up and testing. He is very safe though!
Does he gets a snack for being good patient?

 

[apple]

Good to hear he came himself! And the number - 50 points lower than the +4 - it is good you are up and testing. He is very safe though!
Does he gets a snack for being good patient?

+4 what? I don't understand. We are not at +4 yet.
He's not food driven. Last week he loved the treats. This week he has no interest.

Edit: I'd like him to do tr, but I don't know it it would work in a non food driven cat.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

+4 what? I don't understand. We are not at +4 yet.

Sorry, I misspoke - I meant +3 result 236. It is lower than the +2, which I didn't expect, and I am glad you are up and testing.
I always give my cat little treats after each test - keep her motivated but it is optional.

 

[apple]

Sorry, I misspoke - I meant +3 result 236. It is lower than the +2, which I didn't expect, and I am glad you are up and testing.
I always give my cat little treats after each test - keep her motivated but it is optional.

He goes in spurts. He finds something he likes, I buy a few. I think he will keep eating it and stock -up and bam! Cupboard full of stuff he won't eat.

 

[apple]

Sorry, I misspoke - I meant +3 result 236. It is lower than the +2, which I didn't expect, and I am glad you are up and testing.
I always give my cat little treats after each test - keep her motivated but it is optional.

I'm surprised he's not getting higher bg because he has the munchies.

 

[apple]

247 @ +4

 

[apple]

279 at 3:33 a m which is + I dont know because its 3:30 in the morning!