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Mihaela

Member Since 2017
My cat won't eat. Christopher Scott my 13year old cat was recently diagnosed. I am having a hard time getting him to eat. From $4cans to extra cheap ones he only takes a couple of bites than nothing. He will pick on dry food but nothing regular. Sometimes I am afraid to give him the afternoon shot because he has no food in his system. My vet prescribed an appetite enhancer but it seems to help little to none. Poor baby he is skin and bones. The vet also mentioned that some cats system will completely shut down when faced with diabetes. Is this true? Please help. Any advice will be more than helpful.
 
Have you been testing his blood glucose at home before feeding and giving him his shot? If he is not eating much and you give him insulin without testing, you are risking his life. When was the last time he went to the vet? What arrangements do you have if he gets sicker over the weekend?

What insulin is he getting and how much is his dose? If he is not eating much, it is better to skip his shot until he is eating. I pray that he gets better.
 
Give him 3 - 4 pieces of dry food at a time but frequently. Give salmon or chicken that you are eating - tiny pieces & very few at a time (no onion nor garlic-poisonous to cats). Don't give a lot at a time. Some diabetics are discouraged by volume of their food. Thinking of you and your kitty.

Regards, Sophie
 
Hi, welcome to FDMB! Sorry you and Christopher Scott are going through such a hard time. You have come to the right place for help!

What is the appetite stimulant your vet has prescribed? Is he currently on insulin? If so, what is it? Are you home testing his blood glucose? It is very important that he eats. How long has he been just picking at his food?

Sorry to throw all these questions at you but we can't properly help you without pertinent information. I have never heard of a cat's system just shutting down when faced with diabetes. Diabetes is easily treatable! Did the vet mention any other health issues that Christopher Scott may be having?
 
The appetite stimulant is cyproheptadine. Half tablet every 12 hours. He is currently on Novulin 2unit in the morning 1unit in the evening. I test him every day. His numbers are in thee 300-400. He start picking at his food since he was diagnosed. Before that he ate good. I tried everything from raw chicken liver to all the expensive brands. His last vet visit was a week ago. He tested high and the vet gave him fluids under the skin and told me he probably is not gonna make it if he does not eat. :(:(:( He picks mostly all day long between wet and dry.
 
Don't panic Mihaela, it's early in the day and there's a ton of people about to log on. Get your notebook ready. And like Squalliesmom said, be specific about food, readings, when and how much. It really matters.
 
Did your vet prescribe an anti-nausea? From what you describe, your cat is still interested in food, but shies away from it-- this is a classic nausea symptom. Appetite stimulants won't work without addressing nausea (if present) first.

I am sorry-- I am running off to work now and don't have time for a detailed post, but @Critter Mom recently gave a good rundown of links to methods for dealing with an inappetant cat in a recent post, so I'm copying the link to that post for you to check out:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help.171257/#post-1869065

Lots of other suggestions in that thread, and as @Noah & me says, other folks are sure to chime in on this one too soon-- don't give up hope!
 
OMG you guys are amazing. I sprinkled Parmesan cheese on it and he definitely ate some. Not much but some. I do have some anti-nausea Famotidine. I will start on it today. The vet told me to give it to him only if he vomits. Thank you Thank you
 
I'm glad the Parmesan cheese trick worked! Have you tried baby food? When my cat wouldn't eat well, he perfered chicken baby food (the kind with no garlic or onion). It has the texture of a light paste so it is easier to eat. You could sprinkle a little cheese on that to get him interested, if he isn't.

You do at home testing which is great! Do you test your cat for ketones at home to?
 
I do not test for ketones. How do I do that? Thank you so much for advice. He doesn't want fresh or boiled chicken , tuna and so on. He wont eat baby food. I tried even the cat version of PediaSure he wont budge.
 
You can get Ketone strips at Walmart I get the ReliOn brand. I don't think they are super expensive.

With these strips you have to get a urine sample, only tiny amount. You just have to stick the strip into the urine and it will give you a color, which you then compare to the back of the bottle. It goes from negative to trace amounts to large amounts. We want the test to come back negative!

To get the urine sample I suggest getting a super cheap ladle and sticking it under their butt when they pee. It works way better than trying to stick your hand under there and trying to get them to pee on the strip haha!

You should definitely get some at home ketone test strips because you do not want to end up having ketones. My cat had ketoacidosis twice (before we knew about the strips) and they lead to 4 day long stays at an emergency vet. Being able to catch them early is super important!
 
It is great that you are already home testing! How frequently do you test? We recommend a protocol of test-feed-shoot before breakfast and dinner to make sure it's safe to give the shot, and at least one mid-cycle test (more if you can or need to). Without testing before the shot you can't tell whether or not kitty may be getting too much insulin (which can also make their bg numbers high, from "bouncing", the body's response to having low bg and flooding the system with glucose).

I am very surprised at your vet's lack of action regarding Christopher Scott not eating! Famotadine is an acid blocker; if that doesn't seem to do the trick ask your vet if he will prescribe Ondansetron (the generic version is more affordable) which is an anti-nausea med. If he doesn't start to eat soon, you can get a large syringe without a needle, make a slurry of his food and some water, and syringe feed him. It's messy and takes a lot of work but at least you will get some food into him. Woodsywife's suggestion of the bone broth is a good one, and you could also try the Liver Shake. It is very palatable and most cats will eat/drink it, even if they are not eating their food. If all else fails you can ask your vet to place a feeding tube. Most cats do really well with them and it can definitely be a life-saver if your kitty won't eat !
 
Hurrah. He ate almost had a can. My vet didn't mention anything about a feeding tube. You guys are so great because I almost came to peace with letting him go. I just couldn't see him wasting away. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
 
Mihaela said:
Hurrah. He ate almost had a can. My vet didn't mention anything about a feeding tube. You guys are so great because I almost came to peace with letting him go. I just couldn't see him wasting away. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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There are things that can be done to help him, but you have to act in a timely fashion or he risks hepatic lipidosis from not eating, and potentially ketoacidosis if his bg numbers are very high. It would be a good idea to pick up some ketone test strips and check him.

I'm so glad he ate some for you! :):):)
 
I will get the strips on my way home. I was testing only at night as per vet advise. Now I know better. Something else... When the vet curved him he said his numbers were all over the place. He suggested 2 units of insulin in the morning. I kept a log first week than I took Christopher back in for a check. His numbers were high so he suggested one more unit insulin with dinner. I know what to do if his sugar is low but what do I do when the sugar is high?
 
Mihaela said:
I will get the strips on my way home. I was testing only at night as per vet advise. Now I know better. Something else... When the vet curved him he said his numbers were all over the place. He suggested 2 units of insulin in the morning. I kept a log first week than I took Christopher back in for a check. His numbers were high so he suggested one more unit insulin with dinner. I know what to do if his sugar is low but what do I do when the sugar is high?
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Cats need insulin twice a day because they metabolize it very quickly. Also, Novolin might not last 12 hours. The only way to know what's going on is to adopt a regular BG testing routine: AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before these tests) to see is the planned dose is too high or not; at least once near the middle of the interval between doses to see how low the dose takes the BG. A BG "curve" needs to be done soon to get a fuller picture of what's happening: AM test, then every 2 hours until PM test.

The problem is that too low a dose and too high a dose can both cause high BGs. Doing a curve is the way to sort that out.
 
We did a curve at the vet. Is wasa dissaster because Christopher refused any kind of food. Could I do one home? How?
 
This is how I do a curve at home:
To do a curve at home you need to test his blood every 2 hours in a 12 hour period. Starting at the AM pre shot, and going until the PM pre shot. This will show what his numbers are throughout the day so you can get a better understanding of what his insulin dosage should be.
 
Oh one more question. You guys are so knowledgeable. How accurate is the human meter vs. Alpha trek? Just ran out of strips for alpha trek
 
Human meters tend to read lower than pet meters.

9-14-2014

I just did two tests with my original AlphaTrak and my human Easy Gluco Plus meter. Both comparisons used same drop of blood from two different cats

Dulce OTJAT = 72

Easy Gluco Plus = 54The AT is 133% of the EGP value

The EGP is 0.75 of the AT

BadgarAT = 377Easy Gluco Plus = 331

The AT is only 113% of the EGP value

The EGP 0.88 of the AT
 
Mihaela, your vet not mentioning "all that" is shameful. I know you're not a dummy; it's called a curve because on a graph you should be able to see a nice steady decline in his sugar level, then a steady rise. Some insulins are fast acting (relatively speaking), some are long lasting, some a bit of both. It's not unheard of to switch insulins. Your vet will give details. A feeding tube will require $$$. The alternative is force feeding at home but it's emotionally painful to do it and if a sick cat doesn't want to eat he'll just force his tongue up and the food squishes out between his teeth. It's not about being cheap but if you're a single mother barely hanging on those vet bills will add up fast. I'm not heartless. The meters; I've sometimes tested twice within a few minutes when the first reading didn't make sense and gotten another reading way off from the first one. Just one Thank You will do, the people here are driven to help. This place is my sanctuary.
 
BIG WHOOPS Mihaela, I'm surprised I haven't received 40 lashes yet. A feeding tube will deliver a nice even flow and once your cat gets over the gag factor it is infinitely better than ramming it down his throat. And the emotional factor of force feeding might make him yak it all up. There's a rule here, make sure you mention THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY, NOT MEDICAL ADVICE. Sorry everyone.
 
Mihaela, my cat recently wouldn't eat after changing her insulin and slightly increasing the dosage. 48 hours to get the insulin out of her system and she was back eating perfectly - she is now on her "old" insulin. Seems like her new insulin didn't agree with her for whatever reason - she picked at her food but ate less than 20g of food in 3 days. Appetite stimulants and anti-sickness did nothing for her.

If he was eating fine before and it is only since starting his insulin that he has changed then it may be a similar thing - he could just need time to adjust to his insulin.
 
Does your cat take any b12 supplements? That could help stimulate the appetite as well as ward off neuropathy whole he is still unregulated.
 
Hey guys I have good news. Christopher is eating!!! Looks like the acid reducer is working. I will do the curve tomorrow since I'm off. Now, please walk me through again. He takes novulin 2 units in the morning at 7.30 and 1 unit at 7.30pm. How do I start the curve?
 
Mihaela said:
Hey guys I have good news. Christopher is eating!!! Looks like the acid reducer is working. I will do the curve tomorrow since I'm off. Now, please walk me through again. He takes novulin 2 units in the morning at 7.30 and 1 unit at 7.30pm. How do I start the curve?
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Test at 7, feed, shoot at 7:30... Then test every 2 hours until next time shot time. If you can please set up the spreadsheet.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
 
OK. Curve done. I tested with Contour Next.
7am- 561
7.30 shot of 2 units of Novulin
9am- 314
11am-342
1pm-383
3pm-467
5pm-516
7pm-516
7.30 shot 2 units of Novulin
9pm-293
Please advise me. It looks like the Novulin may not do the job, but I'm no expert in this matter. He eats a little better. About half a can morning and half for dinner. Picks on kibble during the day also. He takes the famotidine once a day and the appetite enhancer twice.
 
Mihaela said:
OK. Curve done. I tested with Contour Next.
7am- 561
7.30 shot of 2 units of Novulin
9am- 314
11am-342
1pm-383
3pm-467
5pm-516
7pm-516
7.30 shot 2 units of Novulin
9pm-293
Please advise me. It looks like the Novulin may not do the job, but I'm no expert in this matter. He eats a little better. About half a can morning and half for dinner. Picks on kibble during the day also. He takes the famotidine once a day and the appetite enhancer twice.
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Actually the 2 u of Novolin at 7:30 PM has caused quite a large drop in only 1.5 hours. I'd test again at 11 PM to make sure the BG isn't heading too low. Post here with the number when you have it.

The Novolin is definitely working but the dose will have to be tweaked when you have a bit more data.
 
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I'm wondering why such a drastic difference between the morning and night numbers. Actually I believe the BG was lower but he begged for food and since he is so skinny I gave him a can of "Fussy Cat" tuna and he ate almost the whole can.
 
Mihaela said:
I'm wondering why such a drastic difference between the morning and night numbers. Actually I believe the BG was lower but he begged for food and since he is so skinny I gave him a can of "Fussy Cat" tuna and he ate almost the whole can.
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Many cats run lower at night. What time did you feed him relative to your 11 PM test?
 
Mihaela said:
About 20 min before we tested
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OK. That means the BG number is not hugely influenced by food. The number wasn't too low so I think you'll have a safe cycle meaning he likely won't plummet to very low numbers overnight. It's possible that the dose will have to be increased a bit but we need more data. Would you consider setting up a spreadsheet like the one we use here?
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
We rely on seeing your data on this SS before offering advice.
 
I did increase the dose from 1 to 2u at night as per vet advice after he saw the first week numbers. I will set the spread sheet tomorrow early. Thank you so much. Because your knowledge i was able to get him to eat again.
 
Mihaela said:
I did increase the dose from 1 to 2u at night as per vet advice after he saw the first week numbers. I will set the spread sheet tomorrow early. Thank you so much. Because your knowledge i was able to get him to eat again.
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We recommend increasing the dose by much smaller amounts so that you don't pass by a good dose that might be a fraction of a unit. Going from 1 u to 2 u is a 100% increase - enormous! The good dose might be 1.25 u, 1.5 u 1.75 u, etc.

Do your insulin syringes have half unit marks on them? If not, you can learn to eyeball half way and a quarter of the way between full unit marks. Overdosing insulin is dangerous and increasing a dose by full units could cause a hypo episode that can be life threatening. Many people here had bad advice from the vet about insulin dosing.
 
Yeah, i tried the spreadsheet but i think ill have to wait for my hubby. Not very computer savvy. Sorry
 
Kris & Teasel said:
We recommend increasing the dose by much smaller amounts so that you don't pass by a good dose that might be a fraction of a unit. Going from 1 u to 2 u is a 100% increase - enormous! The good dose might be 1.25 u, 1.5 u 1.75 u, etc.

Do your insulin syringes have half unit marks on them? If not, you can learn to eyeball half way and a quarter of the way between full unit marks. Overdosing insulin is dangerous and increasing a dose by full units could cause a hypo episode that can be life threatening. Many people here had bad advice from the vet about insulin dosing.
Click to expand...
 
Mihaela said:
Finally posted the spreadsheet. Please advise. Thank you
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Congratulations for getting your spreadsheet up. You'll see that it's a very useful tool. It's hard to say anything definite because you haven't accumulated a lot of data yet. These numbers are for 3 days ago. Have you done any more testing since? A lot can happen in 3 days. If I just look at the daytime data from 01/22 it might tell me that the dose isn't high enough but it could also tell me that 2 u is too high and your kitty has overreacted by using glucose stored in another form in the liver to raise his BG as a protective mechanism. If I shift my focus to the evening numbers for 01/22 it looks like the dose is helping. All this is to say that you need to get more data to tell the full story. You don't have to test as much as you did on 01/22. Aim for a test before AM/PM shots (no food for at least 2 hours before testing) and at least one other test in the middle section of the interval between shots. After 4 or 5 days of this there should be enough on your SS to get an idea of what the 2 u dose is doing.
 
Hi Kris. Actually we do test him, every day. The numbers run the same like you saw in the curve. Not necessary exact but very close. I have the feeling the dose works but it does not lasts long enough. I'm very new at this so maybe I'm wrong. But I will follow your advise and get the data for the next 5 days. Thank you again for your kind words and advice. He is eating now not as he used to but good enough for shots. I will probably feel horrible withholding food since he is used to free kibble but it will get done.
 
Mihaela said:
I will probably feel horrible withholding food since he is used to free kibble but it will get done.
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You don't need to withhold food other than the 2 hours immediately before shot times....Most cats do better with small more frequent meals throughout the cycle, while some do better if they get the majority of their food before nadir (the lowest point in the cycle) since after that, the insulin is wearing off

By getting some more testing in, you'll be able to find out which type of cat you have!!

Novolin isn't one of the recommended insulins for cats because it can make them drop quickly and then wear off too soon, but some cats do OK on it. The longer acting, gentler insulins are Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc

What you do need to do is make sure you Test first....then feed (and since Novolin is fairly harsh, he needs to eat a pretty normal sized meal) and then about 20-30 minutes later, shoot......then if you can get another test in around 4-6 hours after the shot (+4 to +6) that will help fill in his spreadsheet.....If you can get more tests in, that's fine too! On the PM cycle, you want to get at least a "before bed" test in to make sure he's going to be safe overnight while you're sleeping since most cats go lower at night.

Once he's eaten his Pre-shot meals, you can give him snacks throughout the day if he's hungry....just remember to stop 2 hours before the next Test/Feed/Shoot cycle
 
OK. I'm pretty upset right now. Please tell me that its normal for cats not to eat during this crazy ordeal. Christopher didn't want to eat nothing tonight so of course no shot. His BG was 467. I convinced him to eat some raw steak and a teaspoon of FF but not enough for the Novulin shot. He looks weak as he can be. Maybe its time to let him go..... I just don't want him to be miserable ...please tell me this is getting better
 
Mihaela said:
OK. I'm pretty upset right now. Please tell me that its normal for cats not to eat during this crazy ordeal. Christopher didn't want to eat nothing tonight so of course no shot. His BG was 467. I convinced him to eat some raw steak and a teaspoon of FF but not enough for the Novulin shot. He looks weak as he can be. Maybe its time to let him go..... I just don't want him to be miserable ...please tell me this is getting better
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Have you collected any more BG test results? I see only 01/22 on your spreadsheet. Re not eating: others have said above that cats often need antinausea meds as well as an appetite stimulant. One or the other alone doesn't always work. You've barely started treating his diabetes so it's too early to give up on him. Has he been tested for pancreatitis? That can cause nausea, pain, vomiting and lack of appetite.

From what you said in your introduction your vet doesn't seem to be very proactive in treating your kitty. If he was mine I'd be booking an appointment with a different vet ASAP.
 
Yes Kris we test every day. Its been a hassle trying to get him to eat. It seems it was OK for a while but today he ate kinda ok in the morning so I gave him the shot. Tonight he refused everything so I didn't give him the shot. Maybe I should completely take away the food but I'm afraid overnight he may want to pick on kibble if he's sugar will go low. What should I do. I'm not giving up I just don't want him to suffer
 
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