12/29 Sheba AMPS 86 +9 86 PMPS 94 +2.5 47

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Bron and Sheba (GA)

Bron and Sheba (GA)

Member Since 2015
yesterday http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-vet-again-this-pm-for-bupe-injection.170328/
AMPS 86
Sheba seemed a little brighter this morning and was waiting in the kitchen for me when I came down at AMPS. I gave her zofran 2mg before eating. I am feeding her tiny amounts every 15 mins or so and she got up and ate the first few in her usual eating place. She has gone back to lying down and getting room service, but if I hold the plate she is willing to eat most of it, most of the time.
I gave her another reduced dose of 4.5 units insulin as it took her into the greens last night and her appy is still iffy. She dropped to 74 @ +1.5 this morning so I have switched to 15 carb food to make sure she gets enough carbs. I don't want a repeat of the 23! it has left me feeling slightly edgy about low numbers:nailbiting:
Later this morning I am going to give her some SubQ fluids.
How long does the bag of fluids last before it needs discarding? It is Hartmanns Solution.
I also gave her some bupe this morning. I had some sublingual tablets from before. We call it temgesic here in Oz. How much do you usually give of the tablets.? They are 200 micrograms. When I gave her a full tablet once before, she was completely out of it. It's strange....she can have the bupe injection at the vet and she is not really all that drowsy, but for some reason, the sublingual acts differently on her. I gave her a 1/4 tablet but she swallowed it so I got another 1/4 in her cheek which hopefully stayed there. She is quite sleepy now but wakes when I talk to her.
Thanks Paula, Amy, Suki, Jayla and Les for visiting in yesterday's condo after I had gone to bed.
@Woodsywife thanks for all your information on the cerenia and the bupe.
I have ordered the 16 mg cerenia and can pick up later today from the vet.
With the bupe I am using the tablets so couldn't really compare the Liquid dose to the tablets.:( Hopefully someone will know the dose for the sublingual tablets. I have given her 100 micrograms this morning.
 
You are welcome Bron. I don't know about the tablets. I couldn't be sure they would stay in his cheek. The IM said it would be okay he swallowed them but wouldn't work as well because of how it's absorbed and could cause upset stomach and certainly didn't want that. I don't know if that true or not so didn't try it. The oral liquid was easy and fast working on Smokey.
 
Most of us in North America use liquid bupe. There is typically a range of dose, based on the cat weight and effect it has on them. For example, at one point I was giving both cats bupe, one for arthritis the other for a ligament tear. Both weighed the same, one got .22 ml, the other .1 ml so less than half. The solution is .3 mg/ml. Theo would be stoned on a higher dose, the smaller dose wasn't enough for Neko and she was totally fine on it. If one tablet is too much, try one half. The vet probably dose the bupe intramuscular, which is supposed th be the most effective way to give bupe in cats.

Bupe is best given with something in the tummy.

How much fluids are you giving? I was giving 50 ml every other day and the bag was OK. We don't get Hartmann's here but do get Hospira and BBraun.
 
The Bag of fluid, once opened, can go for a couple of weeks, but only if you change the needle immediately after use, and keep the bag in a cool room.

Speaking from experience. Probably can go longer, but I never needed to go longer - the bag was empty by 2 weeks, plus or minus a few days.

Before giving it to Sheba, try heating the bag in a sink of hot water, until it's nice and warm. Be careful that you don't get the needle wet though. The coldness of the fluids is what cats really can't stand. They can get used to the needle puncture, but not to cold.
Be nice about this, Sheba. OK?:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Sorry I haven't got back before this.
Sheba has been in the lagoon for much of the day. Her appy is patchy but she is better than she was.

Thanks so much Leslie, Kathy, Wendy, Ella, Tara, Paula, Sandi and Carla for bumping me up :), for all the vines and for the information on the SubQ fluids and Bupe.

@Kathy and TiTi thank you for the information on the care of the SubQ fluids. I used to give them years ago as a nurse but they were never used more than once so I wasn't sure about the length of time they were OK to continue using.

@Wendy&Neko thanks for the information on the bupe. I gave half a tablet today and Sheba has been sleeping all of the time except for when I disturb her to eat. She seems more comfortable though. I did the fluids...first time on a cat:) so I was glad it went OK. Sheba was super cooperative and just lay there.
Vet told me to give 200 mls. That seems a lot but she gets that at the vet when she is dehydrated and it is not going to be a daily thing. Only when she is sick at this point.

As always everyone on the forum has a wealth of wonderful information to give and it is so good when one is stuck and not sure which way to go. I can't thank you enough.
THANK YOU,:bighug::bighug:

@Tara & Ivana are you surviving in the heat!
 
Congrats on your first fluids. Did you do a different location than the insulin shot? Some cats go a little lower after fluids so it's good to time them with that in mind. I tried to do fluids a couple hours before the shot.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
@Tara & Ivana are you surviving in the heat!
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It's ridiculous, isn't it?! Hope you're doing ok too. Ivana did not eat much at all during the day yesterday, which is unlike her. It must have been the heat, because all the food disappeared overnight, and today we had the aircon on most of the day and she's fine again. Tomorrow has been downgraded for us here from 42c to 36c, so that's a relief! Especially since I'm booked in tomorrow to do 3 hrs of remedial massage in a place with no aircon...
 
@Wendy&Neko ..thanks Wendy. I gave the fluids in the scruff of the neck area and she has the insulin shots in alternate sides of the abdomen. Thanks for the tip on fluids affecting bsl levels. I gave her the fluids about +6 I think and she was green all cycle.
I collected the cerenia tablets this afternoon from the vet and gave her 8 mg. So far she has eaten her pm 1st evening meal quite well. She is definitely feeling better because she took herself upstairs away from the aircon this afternoon into one of the much hotter rooms on the first floor. Then after her 1st pm meal she came looking for me and jumped up onto my lap.......she could not have done that these past 3 days. So hope it continues.

@suki & crystal (GA) thanks Suki for checking on us. These past two days have been full on and worrying, and I am feeling pretty tired from lack of sleep. Sheba is full of anti nausea and pain meds but at last they seem to be helping her now.

@Tara & Ivana yes this weather is crazy. This must be the 4 th day like this and again tomorrow and the rest of the next week is still fairly hot but at least not like this. It is 9.30 pm here and it is still 27 degrees. We have aircon on downstairs so it is OK. The dogs are in the aircon too. I am minding my son's black lab Taz for 10 days. 18 months old and like a big energetic teenager full of the joys of life!! Jess, our dogwho is 15, is being very tolerant. I have had to keep them in the laundry because I can't have Taz racing around worrying Sheba when she is unwell.....they are happy there with the aircon reaching them too.
 
+2.5 47
I don't know why she is dropping at this point. She has eaten most of her first meal and she has had a reduction in her dose. Low green numbers are making me nervous at the moment, especially at the beginning of the cycle before onset.
 
carfurby said:
I hope you can get Sheba to come back up and surf safely. Sending prayers.
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Thanks Carla.
I gave her zofran at +3 but She is not wanting her second meal. I have changed the food to higher carb food to try and get the bsl up a bit. She has had a bit of 13 carb, 16 carb and 22 carb........only a teaspoon of each then she turns her nose up at it and won't look at it. I have had to resort to honey to keep the bsl up. It is staying around 70-84 after the 47 earlier, with the help of honey and a bit of higher carb food. It is after midnight here but I dare not go to bed because I know her BSL will drop after the honey wears off. I am so tired I can hardly keep my eyes opened. My DH got up and make me a cup of tea just now which was very welcome.
The kitchen bench is covered with opened cans of food that I have tried to tempt her with. Just when I think she is improving, she goes backwards again. Pancreatitis is a horrible disease.
 
((Bron)) it's so stressful when our kitties don't feel good especially with a poor appy with insulin on board. You're doing a wonderful job keeping her safe. Sending continuous appy and feel good vines and prayers. I hope you can get some rest soon too. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
So hope Sheba comes up for you. If you have to syringe food in. I think the pancreatitis is worse than diabetes. There isn't anything but palliative care for pancreatitis, and you have to figure out what combo of meds work and how much. In the meantime kitty is so poorly and they can't tell you.

Hang in Bron, your doing everything, a breakthrough should be coming soon. It's like having the flu, you feel the worst right before you start feeling better. Can husband do something so you can get some rest? Can team Sheba be called and help?
 
Hi Bron - I'm sorry I just got the previous tag
I know what you mean about the fluids - the concept of multiple use from a bag freaked me out at first too - here's what I do - when Murphy gets pancreatitis I usually give him ~ 100 ml for a day or two (it's PRN) then I put a new needle on (letting 1-2 cc drip out first) - put in a clean plastic baggie and store in the refrigerator - Obviously you need to warm up to room temperature before next use ( I warm it up in a bread pan filled with hot water (still in the plastic bag) and measure the temperature in the bag with this (I aim for a temp of ~ 99-100 F) - then I let a few ml run out of the bag before using it - I throw out the used bags after about 10 days, just because it makes me too uncomfortable. I actually prefer using the 500 ml bags because I am so paranoid about multi use
I have no experience with bupe pill -only the liquids. Murphy gets daily cerenia (4mg) which I bump up to 8 mg when he has a flare - it can take a while to get over pancreatitis even once the acute acute episode has resolved. I keep giving him the ondanasteron until the episode is well behind us/ What about an appetite stimulant?
 
Thank you Sandi, Paula, Carol and Karen for your kind words and help.
@Woodsywife I agree pancreatitis is worse than diabetes......
Normally DH helps me a lot and will often feed and test her during the day if I need to have a sleep or go out. But he has been unwell with pleurisy and he really needs to rest and get better at the moment.:( And team Sheba is not in Sydney at the moment! One lot in New Zealand and the other two lots enjoying the beaches in Queensland!:cool: Isn't it always the way! This is our main holiday season and all the schools are off for 6-8 weeks.

@Carol & Murphy ..thank you for all the information about the fluids and the meds you use for Murphy during and after a flare. The 500 ml bags sound a really good idea. I will have a look online tomorrow and see if we can get them here..I am sure we can.
I don't think Sheba needs an appetite stimulant at the moment. She is normally a really good eater and if I can control the pain and the vomiting /nausea she will eat. I think nausea is the main problem at the moment.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
. I did the fluids...first time on a cat:) so I was glad it went OK. Sheba was super cooperative and just lay there.
Vet told me to give 200 mls. That seems a lot but she gets that at the vet when she is dehydrated and it is not going to be a daily thing. Only when she is sick at this point.
QUOTE]
Actually 200 mls is a lot. Rule of thumb is to divide the doses. For example, 1ooml in the morning and 100ml 12 hours later is a lot better for the kidneys. As to a one time fluids? If she is still dehydrated this evening, you might want to give her another 50 to 100mls, depending on the extent of the dehydration.

It's easy to tell if she needs it. If the fluids from this morning are not yet absorbed, then she doesn't need more (obviously, but I tend to give details, even when I know the care taker knows most of the details).
I expect you know the cat test for dehydration?

"If you take a pinch of skin over the cat's shoulders and pull up gently, the skin should snap back into place when released. As the cat gets more dehydrated, the skin goes back in place more and more slowly. If the pinch of skin stays up (the "tent"), it is a sign of severe dehydration."

My source for this quote is at url:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cat+test+for+cat's+deydration?

Happy hydration, Sheba!!!
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Marje made a great video on Giving SubQ Fluids that I referred to a few times. Lots of good tips. I always put in a new needle each fluid session. 200ml is quite a lot. I think Neko and Sheba were similar size and she started with 150 ml, but that was for CKD. Whether fluids affects the bsl is ECID. I found it helpful to note on my spreadsheet when fluids were given to start, so I could see if there were any patterns.

I hope you got some sleep tonight.
 
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