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Lottie3333

Member Since 2016
My cat Oscar who is 15 years old has just been diagnosed with diabetes. I was wondering if there are any other members from the UK as I'm not sure what insulin my vet will be able to prescribe. I believe that they only generally prescribe caninsulin.
 
Welcome to the forum. There are quite a few UK members here that you will be meeting as you get settled in.

In the UK there are 2 accepted starting insulins...either Caninsulin or Prozinc. There are many members on here that are knowledgeable in both these types of insulins. One thing you could inquire with your vet about is showing you how to do home-testing for glucose levels. It is a wonderful tool for checking Oscar's progress and response to insulin treatments and keeps him safe by making sure the glucose numbers are safe to give the shot.

Could you tell us what sort of food you are feeding Oscar...a low carb wet food is definitely the best food for diabetic kitties. I will tag @Elizabeth and Bertie who is from the UK. She has a list of foods in the UK that are good for diabetic kitties and can give some advice on where to order from.

Also could you post if your kitty has any other health issues that you know of or if he has ever been given either oral or injections of steroids for any condition.

There is lots to learn, but there are lots of people to help you out on your journey.

:bighug: :bighug:


ETA Is Lottie your name . It would be better than calling you Oscar's Mom ;)
 
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Hi Lottie!
Yes there are quite a few of us in the UK so do ask any questions you have and we will be able to give you local info as well as FD theory... there are some extremely knowledgeable and experienced care-givers here from all over the world.

As Mary Ann asks above, it would be good if you could let us have some more info about Oscar and the vet's suggested plan of action... we can then help you work through the basics so you have the principles of treatment. No question too big or too small!

Best of luck
Diana
 
I took Oscar to vets on Monday as he'd lost weight and was very thirsty. The blood test results come back on Tuesday and his blood sugar was 21. The vet wants to do three blood tests before starting Oscar on treatment to check that it isn't stress. The fingerprick or pawprick today was 20. We're going back tomorrow for the third test and to talk about treatment and food. He is currently fed on Hills senior food.

I'm a type 1 diabetic myself and I'm struggling to understand the difference between human and cat diabetes. I can't understand why Oscar can't have Lantus or Levemir insulin.
 
Lottie3333 said:
I took Oscar to vets on Monday as he'd lost weight and was very thirsty. The blood test results come back on Tuesday and his blood sugar was 21. The vet wants to do three blood tests before starting Oscar on treatment to check that it isn't stress. The fingerprick or pawprick today was 20. We're going back tomorrow for the third test and to talk about treatment and food. He is currently fed on Hills senior food.

I'm a type 1 diabetic myself and I'm struggling to understand the difference between human and cat diabetes. I can't understand why Oscar can't have Lantus or Levemir insulin.
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In the UK because of the cascade system the only insulins allowed for newly diagnosed diabetic kitties are Caninsulin and just recently Prozinc was added. Tests done at the vets office can often be high simple because of stress, so even future tests could show higher than it would be with no stress involved. Some kitties are very prone to vet stress, similar to the "white coat syndrome" that some people have at their doctors. This is one good reason for doing home testing, so that you get a more reliable number when testing.

Are you using the Hill's senior food dry or the wet. The dry food is definitely too high in carbs and I believe even the wet is. I will tag @Elizabeth and Bertie to give you some better options on food in the UK that is suitable for FD kitties. A low carb wet food is the best for keeping glucose numbers down. Since you have not started insulin yet, this would be the perfect time to transition to a good diet for FD before you start insulin.

Most older kitties suffer from type 2 diabetes, usually caused by eating a diet too high in carbs, being overweight, or sometimes just genetics.
 
Yes - if you can, switch to a low-carb wet food and that may well give you a headstart in getting Oscar's BGs down. You may find that your vet wants you to feed a prescription dry food but avoid this - any dry food is too high in carbs for a diabetic. Instead, it is perfectly ok to feed a supermarket brand wet food in jelly (not gravy) such as Whiskas or Felix, or you can look at Elizabeth's UK food list for other suggestions.

If you do introduce a new lower-carb diet you should test Oscar's BGs again before you start insulin to make sure the dose isn't too high. Some cats' BGs drop quite considerably when they are transitioned. Most vets will suggest a dose of 1u twice a day to start with - give that a couple of weeks, testing BGs when you can and always before insulin, and we will be able to see how that dose is working.

Let us know what the vet says tomorrow!
 
@Diana&Tom

Do you have the link to Elizabeth's UK food list...I can't seem to locate it at the moment or I am just not looking in the right spot

Thanks.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
@Diana&Tom

Do you have the link to Elizabeth's UK food list...I can't seem to locate it at the moment or I am just not looking in the right spot

Thanks.
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Mary Ann, the link is in Eliz's sig I believe.
Also see a recentish thread of Eliz's on Health called UK Diabetic Cat Food Info.
Sorry I can't link these myself!
 
Thank you to everyone for their responses.

Oscar is currently on Hills senior dry food so I'll start to change him over to wet food. I'll take a look at Elizabeth's food list. Oscar has also been overweight for a number of years.

Also what meter do people use for home testing? Can you use any meter or does it have to be one designed for animals?

Thanks Charlotte
 
Lottie3333 said:
Thank you to everyone for their responses.

Oscar is currently on Hills senior dry food so I'll start to change him over to wet food. I'll take a look at Elizabeth's food list. Oscar has also been overweight for a number of years.

Also what meter do people use for home testing? Can you use any meter or does it have to be one designed for animals?

Thanks Charlotte
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Since you are not using insulin yet this is the perfect time to do a food transition to a wet low carb food. Many overweight kitties will do much better on wet food as far as weight issues go. Most of the members here use a human meter, simply because the cost of the strips with the pet meter are very high in comparison to strips for a human meter.
 
Yes, wet food is healthier all round so if you can transition Oscar to it it should really benefit him. Be prepared for a bit of a fight with the vet over this though. They are brainwashed by the dry food companies into thinking dry is best but think it through... why would it be? Cats don't eat dry kibble in the wild, plus they don't have a high thirst drive so run the risk of not taking in enough water on a dry food diet.

As for meters, a popular one is the One Touch Ultra. You can buy a starter kit with strips and lancets on ebay for a reasonable price. Some UKers use the Code-Free which you can buy on Amazon I think.

Edited to add: tagging a couple of other UKers who may have something to add @Rach & Honeybun @Helenjayne
 
Lottie3333 said:
Also what meter do people use for home testing? Can you use any meter or does it have to be one designed for animals?
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Hi Charlotte,

You can use either a human meter or a pet meter. The BG reference ranges are different for each meter type (Cat BG tests done on human meters are typically lower than tests done on pet meters). Human meter strips are a significantly cheaper (best prices are usually on ebay or Amazon UK - always check expiry dates before ordering).


Mogs
.
 
Lottie3333 said:
I'm a type 1 diabetic myself and I'm struggling to understand the difference between human and cat diabetes. I can't understand why Oscar can't have Lantus or Levemir insulin.
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Hi Charlotte, and welcome..:bighug:

One major difference between human and feline diabetes (type 2) is that cats have the potential to recover from this. Cats are, I think, unique in this aspect, and can go into 'remission' from their diabetes given the right treatment.

Regarding insulin choices, cats in the UK (and much of Europe) have to be prescribed a 'veterinary' medicine before they can be prescribed an alternative 'human' one. The veterinary insulins in the UK are Caninsulin and - more recently - Prozinc. If a veterinary insulin doesn't work sufficiently well then the vet has the ability to prescribe another alternative, a 'human' insulin, such as Lantus, Levemir or Hypurin PZI. Legally, your vet can prescribe any of these if the veterinary insulins aren't doing a good enough job.

Eliz
 
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Hi Lottie, from very rainy Norfolk!:bighug: My 16 year old Honeybun was diagnosed almost exactly 2 months ago, and she has progressed in leaps and bounds :)
We use the Codefree meter https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0068JAJFS/ref=mp_s_a_1_10_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1476912538&sr=8-10&keywords=codefree strips
as it has the cheapest strips. We were started on Caninsulin, 1u twice a day.
A word of caution, not all vets are pro-home testing, especially not with a human meter, in fact I had an very big disagreement with my vet and ending up changing practices. Most of us do use a human meter, and there is absolutely no reason not to... hopefully your vet will be one of the good guys :)
The forum is absolutely invaluable as an information and support tool, and you will get all the help you need and more on here.
I use an app called the Carb Calculator for Cat Food, and can often be found in my local supermarket looking slightly unhinged checking carb content of said cat food! :D I have four cats, so I have to go for a budget option- someAldi sachets are great, Whiskas 7+ but not Senior or supermeat, and Sheba flakes. Generally beef flavours are higher carb.
:bighug:
 
We started on caninsulin but as fred was just about to hit remission another was starting to be used, don't ask for specifics cos my memory is awful. Also if the vet feels the need there is paperwork they can complete to prescribe human insulin x
 
Welcome Lottie and Oscar. I'm in London and started on Caninsulin for both my diabetic kitties. Unfortunately that didn't work very well in either of them. Frankie was referred to the RVC last year (at my insistance as my vet would not change insulins) who agreed he needed Lantus, and he has very recently become very stable on it. Romulus has just changed to ProZinc a week ago, and so far, this seems to be working better for him. I also had a fight with my vet about changing to wet food. In the end, I just told her this is what I am going to do with or without your blessing. She said she would get back to me after doing research after I quoted a lot of facts and figures from this board at her. She never called back and is now generally very accepting of how I am treating them. We had a fight about changing insulins last week for Rom, but she had already ordered a vial for me, so was always going to give it. I am now feeding all my kitties Felix as Good As It Looks Senior. It is 8% carbs. I truly believe the dry food diet contributed to both my kitties diabetes. It was a weight loss food but they both put a lot of weight on eating that. They only lost weight after going on an exclusively wet food diet.
 
I gave Oscar his first injection of insulin tonight. He is on Caninsulin and we are using the Vetpen. The dose is 2 units in the morning and another 2 units 12 hours later. The vet has also advised me to test Oscar's blood sugar 6 hours after his first injection to start with. The plan is to do a blood sugar curve in a few weeks.

The vet didn't want me to change Oscar's food at the moment as she said his body is going through enough already.

Also what length needles are you all using for your cats? I'm currently using 12mm on Oscar which seems very long.
 
Hi Lottie, I've always used syringes/vial for Honeybun so can't help there :(
Are you home testing then? That's great if so. You can do your own curve at home without adding in the vet stress and £ss.
 
Don't change Oscar's food yet - 2 units twice a day is at the higher end of the start regime for Caninsulin and a change to low carb food can cause the numbers to drop. You don't need a hypo at this stage (actually you don't want a hypo at all but in the early days it is very stressful and you have enough to work out at the moment). First we need to determine how he responds to the insulin. It is good that you are home testing, we test before food when there has been no food given for at least 2 hours, feed then give insulin. The +2 readings are useful as well as what you want to see is a gentle drop by about six hours before a rise again to next shot time. Usually the first curve is done after the first week of insulin and doses adjusted from there. As I recall the vet pen allows dose changes of 0.5 units at a time. The needles do seem long compared to the 8mm human needles but our little furry friends tend to need a longer needle as it isn't always easy to judge when it is through the skin. As you use insulin on yourself you will be familiar with the pop sensation as the needle goes through the skin, you don't have to push the needle all the way in to Oscar's skin and you will be able to judge when to fire the pen.

Can you set up a signature and a spreadsheet so we don't keep asking the same questions, the spreadsheet is a very useful tool to track glucose readings and doses and very helpful if you need advice in a hurry.

There are a few differences with managing feline diabetes but the basics are the same. When you are ready you can come over to the Caninsulin forum and start posting, any general questions can be asked in the health forum.

We have quite a few UK members on the board now which is great!
 
Hi Charlotte
So your FD journey has started and you're giving Oscar insulin - well done! It's good news too that your vet is supporting home-testing - did she give you any recommendations for a meter or are you going to go for one of the ones we suggested above? And did the vet explain how to test Oscar (using his ears)? - if not we can point you in the direction of links here on the board and elsewhere. Where are you in the UK, by the way? Our members are quite spread out so there may even be someone near you who could help out if you need it.

Ref the food - no, don't change Oscar's diet for the moment as you've just started insulin, but when you start testing you will know exactly what his BGs are and if they are still high you might find that a lower-carb food helps.

If you haven't already, do look at other forums here, especially the Health and Caninsulin forums, and the Stickies for general information. Are you ok with setting up a spreadsheet? If not please say as we have fab tech people here who will get you up and running.

Keep us informed, everyone here wants to help.
 
Hi Everyone

Sorry for taking so long to reply.

I'm planning on moving over to the Caninsulin forum but I'm struggling with setting up the spreadsheet. Can anyone help?

I'm from Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire.

I'm very worried about Oscar as his blood sugars are still between 17 and 22.
 
Hi Charlotte
Don't worry, it does take a while to get your head round things and you have made a good start, that's what's important!

Re the spreadsheet, I can't be 100% sure but I think @Marje and Gracie is an expert so hopefully she will look in here and help you with that.

Aylesbury... hmmm, I don't know if we have any members in that neck of the woods but if so we will let you know - always good to have local people around although of course this board is international and you'll get help with most things online.

As for Oscar's numbers, don't worry - he has only just started on insulin and we need to see how his initial dose is doijg for a couple of weeks... and then if his numbers aren't going down you can discuss with the vet and experienced people here whether to tweak the dose.

Hang in there! These are early days and as I said, you're doing well already. Keep posting with any questions.

Diana
 
Yes it is me :):):) I developed the current spreadsheets and instructions and am happy to do a SS for you if you like. I do many for new members and it takes me just a very, very short time.

If you would like me to do this, please send me a private message by clicking on "Marje and Gracie" to the left under my sweet Gracie's picture and then click on "start a conversation".

Welcome to FDMB!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Yes it is me :):):) I developed the current spreadsheets and instructions and am happy to do a SS for you if you like. I do many for new members and it takes me just a very, very short time.

If you would like me to do this, please send me a private message by clicking on "Marje and Gracie" to the left under my sweet Gracie's picture and then click on "start a conversation".

Welcome to FDMB!
Click to expand...

I've just sent you a message.
 
Perfect!! Thank you and I responded with the info I'll need. I can do it for you as soon as you have time to send the info.
 
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