Maggie's bounce-o-rama

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Kelly Howard

Kelly Howard

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I posted yesterday in the main forum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/just-started-home-testing-high-numbers-bouncing.165901

Since I'm home today I have been doing some more tests. Maggie is in the middle of what seems like a really steep bounce (461 AMPS down to 98-87 for the +6, +7, and +8 readings). I know these are not quite panic numbers yet, but should I be doing anything differently? Giving her some higher carb food? Or just keep monitoring and let her ride it out?

I have read here that bounces can affect their numbers for several days after. Does that mean they continue to bounce up and down, or that their numbers just stay high? I decreased her dose by .5u this morning and I'm wondering if today's numbers mean that is still too high, or she is just still messed up from possible bounces over the last few days.
 
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It's coming up on PM shot time and I'm not sure what I should do. 2 hours ago she was only at 99. I know for us newbies we are not supposed to shoot under 200, especially for PM. What if she is between 200-300? 300-400? Do I give her 2.5 again?
 
Kelly Howard said:
It's coming up on PM shot time and I'm not sure what I should do. 2 hours ago she was only at 99. I know for us newbies we are not supposed to shoot under 200, especially for PM. What if she is between 200-300? 300-400? Do I give her 2.5 again?
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I see that you're using an AlphaTrak meter which reads higher than a human meter. The "no dose under 200" guideline is for newbies using a human meter. It might be safer to have a no shoot number of around 230 on the AT meter. The general consensus is that you can expect a reading to be about 30 mg/dL higher on an AT at highBG values.

I'm not experienced enough to give you a dose level to try but it looks like you might be heading toward no shot this evening.
 
Thanks Kris! That's good to know. I would definitely want to be on the conservative side. 12 hours ago I was worried about black numbers... now I am worried about green! These cats do like to keep us guessing...
 
Well that was certainly a bounce! 499! I guess I should do 2.5 again. Maybe she just needs a few cycles to settle down.

I think I will set an alarm tonight to get a +6 reading.
 
Kelly Howard said:
Thanks Kris! That's good to know. I would definitely want to be on the conservative side. 12 hours ago I was worried about black numbers... now I am worried about green! These cats do like to keep us guessing...
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I am the same way! I start seeing low blues or high greens and I get really nervous. Bouncing is no fun...
 
Looks like 2.5 is a good dose, but yes, I'd get a nadir. The good news is that she definitely is responding to the insulin; the bad news is that she goes low enough to cause a big bounce.
 
By the way -- does this look good for 2.5? These syringes don't have half unit markings.
 

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Sorry, I can't enlarge it enough to see. I'd pull up 3 units and let out drops till it looks like 2.5. We can help you find U40 needles with 0.5 units. Or there is a way to use a conversion chart and U100 needles, if you have any left over from Lantus. Tomorrow.
 
I cropped it, is this any better?

We have always been on Prozinc so these are the only ones I have. But, now that I am taking more control of her treatment I think it will be good to have some more precise syringes. Tomorrow, for sure -- thank you for checking in before bed :) Good night!
 

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Kelly Howard said:
I've been reading your threads too Steph. He's really putting you through the ringer! I hope he starts to come back up soon tonight.
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3 nights in a row he's gone down low enough to scare me. Hopefully I've given him just enough to let him surf.
 
Kelly Howard said:
I cropped it, is this any better?

We have always been on Prozinc so these are the only ones I have. But, now that I am taking more control of her treatment I think it will be good to have some more precise syringes. Tomorrow, for sure -- thank you for checking in before bed :) Good night!
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That is how I measure my half doses. Looks just like that.
 
Morning update -- Maggie was 294 at +6.75 ( set the alarm for +6... Fell back asleep... oops). She always seems to be high overnight. How does sleeping affect BG? I know a lot of cats are active at night but ours tend to just conk out on the bed with us. It's not unusual for Maggie to spend the whole night sleeping between our pillows.

She was 465 this morning for AMPS. Sticking with the 2.5 dose. I will be home today, but will have company over in the afternoon. It will be +7ish by the time they arrive, so still should be able to get some good mid cycle numbers.
 
Some people feel activity lowers BG. Some think that the fact that most cats don't eat as much overnight as they do during the day affects the cycle. Food does impact bg levels - sometimes up, sometimes down. But often people find that night cycles are different than day time.

About the syringe. You can buy U40 with 0.5 markings, but usually from the vet or online. That'd make the 0.5 measurements easier. Lots of ProZinc members use U100 syringes. With them, you can dose as low as 0.2/0.4. But you must use the conversion chart because you would be using U40 insulin with U100 syringes.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm
 
Is it common to adjust doses by .25u? I found some with .5 markings, but if we are going to start adjusting down to .25u increments, then it seems like the 100's would make sense.

Today is looking much better. Going down one range at a time. Go Maggie go!
 
Kelly Howard said:
Is it common to adjust doses by .25u? I found some with .5 markings, but if we are going to start adjusting down to .25u increments, then it seems like the 100's would make sense.

Today is looking much better. Going down one range at a time. Go Maggie go!
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Some of us adjust by 0.10 u! That's between two half unit marks on a U100 syringe.
 
Kelly Howard said:
Is it common to adjust doses by .25u? I found some with .5 markings, but if we are going to start adjusting down to .25u increments, then it seems like the 100's would make sense.

Today is looking much better. Going down one range at a time. Go Maggie go!
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Usually we do say to increase/decrease by 0.25 - unless the kitty is in very high ranges and flat overall. Then 0.5 can make more sense. I think it is just safer to increase in small amounts, even if you decide to increase more often than every 6 cycles. MHO
 
Thanks ladies. I think I will order some U-100s. They seem to all be pretty cheap anyway so if we don't use them, no big deal.

Maggie's PMPS was very high, but we had a house full of people all afternoon including 3 extra kids running around. These days leave me feeling stressed so I know Maggie was feeling it too!

I don't think she bounced today because I didn't see any low numbers. Her +6 was about 200, just under half of AMPS -- isn't that just right, a 50% drop? I'm very curious to see how she does this week.
 
It might also be that she is a kitty who has a little higher, flatter cycle the next day after numbers lower than she is used to. Those greens yesterday were perfectly safe, but her body is used to higher numbers, so she may have bounced. When you get numbers that are a little hard to explain, I suggest that you just mutter "data gathering" and continue on. :joyful:
 
Such a high PMPS again. Think it's time to try 2.75? Maybe on Wednesday when I'm home all day? Tonight's shot will be the 6th cycle. I'm worried about her spending so much time in these crazy high numbers.
 
I know. Darn jobs! :) And I work 45 min from home so not like I can pop back to do a test at lunch. I guess we will need to see what Wednesday's tests show. I can get some overnight tests too, but she seems to be so different at night. Or maybe the daytime is messing up her night numbers.

Whew... I think I need to keep reminding myself that I only have a week's worth of data! Lol.
 
She is still bouncing. I missed the nadir but she was back in black at +7. I'm thinking of dropping her down to 2u. Is that too sharp? Should I try to eyeball 2.25? We just finished the 6th cycle @2.5u.

2u was her original dose but I wasn't home testing then. When she got a curve done, her numbers were still high, but that could have been from vet stress plus she'd only been on insulin for a week. I think the vet jumped the gun going for a dose increase then. Maybe 2u was right for her.
 
I am conflicted. 2.5 could be too much as she could be bouncing from the yellows. Or it could be too little and not lasting the whole cycle. I think the only way to be sure is to try one way and then the other, if the first doesn't work. So maybe reduce to 2 (or 2.25 if you can eyeball it.) Stick with it at least 3 cycles (shorter than usual but going down in dose is always a little riskier). and see if things look better, getting those ketone tests in.

If things don't look better, then you know higher is better.
 
I did 2.25 (or as close to it as I could manage). Hoping for a lower PMPS tonight... Tomorrow we will get some good data.

Thank you for all of your advice, Sue. I really appreciate it! I'd be lost without this place!
 
Feeling hopeful for tonight. +11 (I couldn't wait! lol!) was 346. Fingers crossed she doesn't go much higher in the next hour. Also finally found some freeze dried treats she will eat!

You know when you're young you don't want to buy embarrassing things like tampons in the store, and everyone tells you the cashier won't even give it a second glance? I picked up the ketone strips at Target today, along with a few other things. The cashier scans them, is about to drop them in the bag, then she pulls them back out and goes "Oh, URINALYSIS STRIPS? What are you using these for?" Thank god I could say they were for a cat! Way to be tactful, lady!
 
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