Just returned from vet - newly diagnosed and confused

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Carol & Murphy said:
that's so sweet - we are all pulling for him - I have to ask - was he named after Desi and Lucy?
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Yes, he was. My mom was a big I Love Lucy fan. (She also had another cat named Lucy. Desi and Lucy didn't get along - like real life?! - Desi always ate Lucy's food and my mom had to feed Lucy in a bathroom to keep Desi away, etc. After Mom died, we split up the cats. I think Lucy was relieved!)
 
Hi:

I just updated Desi's SS and he's up to 170. It's only about 8p here but we started testing at 7:30a so it's been 12 hours. My question is this: If I test later tonight and it's >200, would you recommend a dose of insulin (and .5 units)? Or am I only supposed to dose based on the PMPS number? And then wait until tomorrow's AMPS number for tomorrow's potential dose?
Just want to be proactive since his numbers seem to be going up.
Thanks in advance!
 
You dose in the am and pm based on those specific tests. I would say, if he is up to 200, then .5 should be okay. I would get a test before bed.
 
So if he tests >200 in a couple of hours, don't dose.
Dose tomorrow morning based on the AMPS number. Right? And then, do .5 if over 200.
 
No worries. I didn't test. One of our sons was sick and that distracted me. I am going to do the AMPS test now after a spot of coffee (plus Desi is outside at the moment for his morning constitutional) and am very curious about what his test will read!
 
OK, we just tested him and you can see his numbers are high. Do you all know if there is any correlation between weight/build and insulin absorption? Desi seemed to take so long to absorb his first dose given at the vet office. He is a really big cat - now he's 19# but he's usually over #20 - plus he's big boned and just plain large. (Or other cat is tiny!) Anyway, after some debate amongst ourselves, we went with 1.0 units. I have to go to work so Mark is on his own for the rest of the day, testing and whatnot. He will try to fill in the SS. Bye for now!
 
Given Desi's BG this morning, I think it's just fine that you went with a conservative 1 unit, since he was only at 170 @ PMPS last night when you skipped. Good job!:) (P.S. I hope your son is feeling better now...)
 
Korynn said:
OK, we just tested him and you can see his numbers are high. Do you all know if there is any correlation between weight/build and insulin absorption? Desi seemed to take so long to absorb his first dose given at the vet office. He is a really big cat - now he's 19# but he's usually over #20 - plus he's big boned and just plain large. (Or other cat is tiny!) Anyway, after some debate amongst ourselves, we went with 1.0 units. I have to go to work so Mark is on his own for the rest of the day, testing and whatnot. He will try to fill in the SS. Bye for now!
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I think I remember that the scruff of the neck doesn't have a great blood supply and therefore absorption may not be so great if the shot is given there - otherwise, I'm not aware of any correlation with size - maybe others know
 
I was reading through this whole post and found it amazing how if we HAD listened to our vets, where would our cats be? My vet did the same thing to my Hershey he was first diagnosed. Started him at 2. units x 2 and DM Wet/Dry. Come back in a month and check his numbers. How crazy is this? First we are changing his diet which could and DID bring his numbers down, and the insulin would have been too high. Mind you the first month I did follow his instructions, but after connecting with the amazing people on this page, realized testing is Mandatory. I have not been back to my vet, but he is due for his one year wellness visit soon, and hope to find a vet in my area with a little more experience with diabetes. Thanks again to everyone who is a part of this wonderful site! Korynn you can do this!
 
Hi again: I thought I'd post early for you in more eastern time zones!
Mark (husband) tested Desi twice while I was at work (yay, Mark! that was a big step for him cuz he's kinda squeamish) and you can see that the numbers dropped after the 1.o dose this morning. Here is my [proactive] question: His PMPS is in a couple of hours. If it's <200, we don't give him anything, right?
The two doses he had (the one Sunday morning at the vet's and the one this morning were in the scruff of the neck. Is there a better place? Where do others inject?
Thanks in advance!
P.S. Son is feeling better. I think he and his friends eat too much crap on the weekends!
 
Judy and Hershey said:
I was reading through this whole post and found it amazing how if we HAD listened to our vets, where would our cats be? My vet did the same thing to my Hershey he was first diagnosed. Started him at 2. units x 2 and DM Wet/Dry. Come back in a month and check his numbers. How crazy is this? First we are changing his diet which could and DID bring his numbers down, and the insulin would have been too high. Mind you the first month I did follow his instructions, but after connecting with the amazing people on this page, realized testing is Mandatory. I have not been back to my vet, but he is due for his one year wellness visit soon, and hope to find a vet in my area with a little more experience with diabetes. Thanks again to everyone who is a part of this wonderful site! Korynn you can do this!
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So the 2 units 2x/day for a month didn't hurt Hershey? Was he ever hypoglycemic?
 
Hi Korynn, thanks for the earlier post! I'm usually crashed by 9 or so CT :)

Correct if he is below 200 no shot. It'll be interesting to see where he goes with that lower number at +8!
 
Rachel said:
Hi Korynn, thanks for the earlier post! I'm usually crashed by 9 or so CT :)

Correct if he is below 200 no shot. It'll be interesting to see where he goes with that lower number at +8!
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Yeah, me too! Mark and I tried to see a pattern. The BG level seemed to be falling 23 points/hour from the first testing to +8. Will it keep dropping or what?
 
Rachel said:
Correct if he is below 200 no shot.
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I agree with Rachel here.

Even if Desi makes it to a shootable 200 @ PMPS: I'd be inclined to go conservative on the overnight cycle's dose - maybe just 0.5U - especially as we haven't accumulated all that much data yet ... and he experienced a pretty significant drop from that AMPS of 317 when you gave him a full unit this morning. (Good job on the testing today, btw!:))
 
I tested Desi an extra time when I got home from work because Mark's +8 number was so high. Mine at +10 was lower. (Mark said he had a hard time doing it and thought Desi might have been a bit stressed.) The numbers are still quite a bit higher than yesterday so we will see what the PMPS number brings. It's looking like it will be a shootable number (>200) and I'm guessing we might dose 0.5U if so. Does that sound like an okay plan?
 
Sounds good to me. The one unit looks fine for the 300s but I think 0.5 makes more sense for the 200s. This assumes he doesn't continue to go down. You want to shoot a rising number not a falling one.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Sounds good to me. The one unit looks fine for the 300s but I think 0.5 makes more sense for the 200s. This assumes he doesn't continue to go down. You want to shoot a rising number not a falling one.
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That's a good point (shoot a rising number, not a falling one). That makes good sense! Thanks, Sue.
 
OK, the PMPS number was <200 tonight. So no shot. I cannot figure out this pattern! Guess all there is to do is give it time and see what the next day brings!
 
Time will tell. Meanwhile his numbers look good. Anytime they are under 250, we think his pancreas can be healing. One thing you might try is to give 0.75 or 0.5 on those pink amps and see if you get a little higher pmps.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Time will tell. Meanwhile his numbers look good. Anytime they are under 250, we think his pancreas can be healing. One thing you might try is to give 0.75 or 0.5 on those pink amps and see if you get a little higher pmps.
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Do I want a higher PMPS number? Is the goal to give 2 doses of insulin a day?
 
Korynn said:
Do I want a higher PMPS number? Is the goal to give 2 doses of insulin a day?
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I'll reply on my own question because I think I found the answer in the Prozinc protocal:

If one preshot is above 200 and shootable, and one preshot is too low to shoot, it probably means the dose is a little too high and lasting more than the usual 12 hours. Try reducing by at least .25 to see if you get two shootable preshot numbers (ideal) rather than one that is too high and one that is too low to shoot (not ideal)
 
Korynn - Sorry, just now saw this ... Have you retested since you last posted? (As 160 is too low for you to shoot.)
 
Korynn said:
I'll reply on my own question because I think I found the answer in the Prozinc protocal:

If one preshot is above 200 and shootable, and one preshot is too low to shoot, it probably means the dose is a little too high and lasting more than the usual 12 hours. Try reducing by at least .25 to see if you get two shootable preshot numbers (ideal) rather than one that is too high and one that is too low to shoot (not ideal)
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Yep! You got it. The goal is 2 doses twice daily which can mean adjusting the dose down a smidge. If not, you get the higher number for pmps (after skipping at night) and shoot a little more and then a lower number at night and skip. A vicious circle. Let's try a little less and see if we get two shootable preshot numbers.
 
We lowered Desi's morning insulin despite a higher AMPS number and tonight we still don't have a shootable number. Ugh. We could go down to .5, I guess, for tomorrow's AMPS dose. Today we gave less in the morning and his numbers seemed higher throughout the day, but now are under 200 (maybe still dropping). I guess we will just see what tomorrow's numbers are and go from there. (Thanks for "listening" - ha!)
 
Korynn said:
still don't have a shootable number. Ugh. We could go down to .5, I guess, for tomorrow's AMPS dose.
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Take heart, Korynn - this could be a good sign.

I agree about the dose: Try the 0.5 tomorrow and we'll see how that does. It's not uncommon for it to take a while for a kitty to even out. So hang in there!:):bighug:
 
Now the PMPS number is lower than its ever been. Oh brother! We did it twice just to make sure. What a guessing game! So much for a shootable number tonight!
 
Korynn, have you done a re-check of that lovely green PMPS BG test of 89? If not, could you just do one more test, please? (I always double check when I get an unusual # on Bat-Bat.)

Oops, just saw that you DID recheck the #!
 
Korynn said:
But if it's the usual (?) 300+ tomorrow morning, what should we do?!
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Normally, you would reduce the dose a little if you're seeing thta much of a disparity between the AMPS & PMPS tests.

So my next question is: Which syringes are you using? The U-40 syringes?
 
Robin&BB said:
Normally, you would reduce the dose a little if you're seeing thta much of a disparity between the AMPS & PMPS tests.

So my next question is: Which syringes are you using? The U-40 syringes?
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Yes, the U-40's. We bought a box of them! Should we switch to something else?
 
I started w u40s, but are too hard to use for doses less than 1 unit. So you can more accurately dose 0.5 or 0.25 using U100 syringes marked on the half unit (on left side of the barrel when needle is pointing up) and a conversion table for dosing ProZinc. (Many of us do this, btw.) I buy these - the brand is BD - at Walmart.
 
They come in both the standard length needle or a slightly shorter (& finer; 31 gauge) needle. I use the shorter ones because Bat is rather thin-skinned - too often the longer needle was going right thru the skin & I would end up with a "fur-shot." So the shorter ones turned out to work better for us.
 
@Sharon14 - Thanks, for posting the chart! I'm having to post using 3G on my phone because my WiFi is down tonight! Is slow going, typing on this tiny virtual keyboard.:banghead:
 
OK, thanks everyone. I'll go to Walmart and look for the shorter U100 syringes. I'm still unsure regarding the amount I/we will decide to give him if the numbers are in the 300's again - maybe .25? On the conversion chart, there isn't a .25 so....o.3? I gotta go to Walmart now. Later!
 
Korynn said:
I'm still unsure regarding the amount I/we will decide to give him if the numbers are in the 300's again - maybe .25?
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That's what I was thinking ... I mean, the worst thing that can happen is the dose is too low and then you'd just adjust up a little on the next one.;) (I'll always go the conservative route when you can't be around to test.)
 
Robin&BB said:
@Sharon14 - Thanks, for posting the chart! I'm having to post using 3G on my phone because my WiFi is down tonight! Is slow going, typing on this tiny virtual keyboard.:banghead:
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I got the ones you mentioned. They are short and very fine. (What is a "fur shot?") I see the conversation does .2 increments of the U40 so maybe we will do with .4 tomorrow. Who knows. I guess we'll see what then number s are first. Looks like we'd have to eyeball .3 and it's so tiny.
 
Korynn said:
I got the ones you mentioned. They are short and very fine. (What is a "fur shot?") I see the conversation does .2 increments of the U40 so maybe we will do with .4 tomorrow. Who knows. I guess we'll see what then number s are first. Looks like we'd have to eyeball .3 and it's so tiny.
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Oops, meant "conversion" - ha!
 
Korynn said:
I guess we'll see what then number s are first.
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Yep, that's a good idea. If Desi's running high, I'd recommend the 0.4. If she's lower that usual, but still shootable, I'd tend toward either a "skinny" 0.4 or a "fat" 0.2U. You might want to practice "eyeballing" somewhere between the two before the time arrives (I found that practicing first helped me not stress out as much about dinky-dosing.)
 
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