Getting the middle claw on monitoring

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Nervous Pervis and Terri

Nervous Pervis and Terri

Member Since 2016
Okay, I'm new to all of this and could use some suggestions. I'm trying to get Nervous Pervis to let me prick his ear to get some testing in before he goes back to the vet for another $75-$100 glucose-monitoring visit on Monday. Well, he is saying, "No Way! I don't care that you house me, feed me and that saved me from a sure death. You're not pricking me with that thing."

He's not the cuddling type, as his name suggests, so he won't sit in my lap and he doesn't like being picked up. He's sweet, but very timid. I tried warming his ear with a washcloth, a small, warm-water filled pill bottle, rubbing his ears. He's suspicious of it all. I would bribe him with a treat, but we have yet to find a low carb treat that he'll eat. I can't seem to do everything I need to do and keep him situated. I tried having my DH help, but maybe I'm a control freak (I am) and didn't like his approach. I need to be able to do it on my own because I'll be the one doing it the majority of the time. He needs to do it too, but I can show him once I have it figured out.

Also, his 8 units of Prozinc shots were going fine, but now he's a bit suspicious of that, too. I can give it to him while he's eating or drinking water from the faucet, but it's not as easy as it was. I wonder if I must have accidentally hit muscle one time and he didn't like it.

Lastly, if I do get the testing started this weekend, how many tests do you think I'll need to do in order for the vet to be able to make heads or tails out of the numbers? Should I take the monitor to the vet and ask them to do some tests there to compare with their monitoring?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
 
Bandit fought me tooth and claw the first few weeks we tested. Here's what helped us:

1. My attitude. I started out being all "poor kitty! I hate to hurt you!", and this made things worse for both of us, because he could sense my lack of confidence. Once I changed my attitude to be, "You're getting this test, cat, whether you like it or not because you need it to save your life!", things went much more smoothly.
2. Blankets, and lots of them. I got a basket that was roughly the same size as Bandit on the suggestion of my vet, who said that ornery cats calm down when they are surrounded on all sides but the top. So Bandit went in the basket for each test, which I lined with fleece blankets, I had another fleece blanket I used to wrap him in so that only his head was free. This kept him from clawing me and trying to escape while I did the test.
3. Get the test as fast as you can. Use a thicker gauge lancet (26-28g), and make sure you're warming the ear to get the blood flowing.
4. End each test with a diabetic safe treat, no matter what it is. What kinds have you tried? It doesn't have to be a packaged treat...if there's any type of meat he likes, you could give him that. Boiled chicken or beef could work, or fish, or even raw fish or cheese. My cats like these treats a lot. Any freeze dried, meat only treats will be diabetic safe.

If you establish this as a routine--basket, test, treat, then eventually the cat gets used the routine and accepts the testing. It took Bandit a few months, but now he comes running when he hears the meter beep on and sits patiently in front of me until his test is done.

One point of concern I have...8u is a very large dose of insulin, especially if you haven't been home testing datily--how did Pervis get up to that high of a dose? Is there still dry food in his diet? If this dose was based on office curves, it's likely that he is being overdosed right now--office curves will show artifically inflated numbers that lead to chronic overdosing if caution is not used in raising the dose. It's possible he's starting to run away from the shot because it's making him feel worse, not better. 8u is a lot of insulin. Most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1-2u of insulin.
 
@Julia & Bandit - Thanks for the ideas. I'll try the basket and blankets. As far as treats, I've tried a couple freeze-dried meats and cooked chicken. I'll have to try cheese or maybe some cooked shrimp or fish that I have. I do need to get a thicker gauge lancet too. I'll go get some today.

Although, I don't know a lot about diabetes, I agree that we got to the the 8u really quickly. Pervis was diagnosed on January 29 and his office curves were in the 500's. When the vet told me that it was going from 6 to 8, I was angry, not just at that, but some other things that you should receive when you're paying so much and visiting so often, which I had received on prior visits. I know it might have just been a busy day, but... So, as I was typing this, I decided to contact the vet we use for our dog for his opinion. They typically charges more for services, but I talked to his office and the curves were cheaper per test. I left him a message to give me a call.

Thanks again for your help. I'll post when after my next attempt at testing or after I talk to the other vet.
 
Nervous Pervis and Terri said:
Thanks Larry. I appreciate your input. Hopefully, I'll get going on his home testing soon.
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You will get it.... we have all been there......be patient--read lots of the info on the stickys-
We turned a corner when I realized the correct area to prick his ear-I was aiming for the vein:eek: what was I thinking??
now I know where to prick between the vein and the edge of the ear toward the top but not the very top where there are very little never endings-
it took a while.... it is all a learning process:bighug:
laur_danny_famoussweetspot.jpg
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
You will get it.... we have all been there......be patient--read lots of the info on the stickys-
We turned a corner when I realized the correct area to prick his ear-I was aiming for the vein:eek: what was I thinking??
now I know where to prick between the vein and the edge of the ear toward the top but not the very top where there are very little never endings-
it took a while.... it is all a learning process:bighug:
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Hello! I think I am getting better at it and the next test will be a success. Pervis was a trooper tonight and after several attempts with with two people, then towel wrapping and most successful while he was drinking water. I finally got enough blood to the glucometer, but the readings weren't right. They were in the 30 range, but Pervis definitely has no signs of hypoglycemia. He's actually wasn't traumatized by the sticks at all and is out of the bedroom, which has been rare for him in the past couple months, is soaking up our petting and loving on him. I think it might have been because when I didn't get enough blood on the test strip, I tried getting more bloold on it. Could that have been what went wrong with the two tests? I tested myself (right after dinner) and I was 126, so I know the meter is working. Thank you everyone for your help. I am not giving up. :)
 
Nervous Pervis and Terri said:
Hello! I think I am getting better at it and the next test will be a success. Pervis was a trooper tonight and after several attempts with with two people, then towel wrapping and most successful while he was drinking water. I finally got enough blood to the glucometer, but the readings weren't right. They were in the 30 range, but Pervis definitely has no signs of hypoglycemia. He's actually wasn't traumatized by the sticks at all and is out of the bedroom, which has been rare for him in the past couple months, is soaking up our petting and loving on him. I think it might have been because when I didn't get enough blood on the test strip, I tried getting more bloold on it. Could that have been what went wrong with the two tests? I tested myself (right after dinner) and I was 126, so I know the meter is working. Thank you everyone for your help. I am not giving up. :)
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What meter are you using--not all cats show signs of hypo--
 
Nervous Pervis and Terri said:
Hello! I think I am getting better at it and the next test will be a success. Pervis was a trooper tonight and after several attempts with with two people, then towel wrapping and most successful while he was drinking water. I finally got enough blood to the glucometer, but the readings weren't right. They were in the 30 range, but Pervis definitely has no signs of hypoglycemia. He's actually wasn't traumatized by the sticks at all and is out of the bedroom, which has been rare for him in the past couple months, is soaking up our petting and loving on him. I think it might have been because when I didn't get enough blood on the test strip, I tried getting more bloold on it. Could that have been what went wrong with the two tests? I tested myself (right after dinner) and I was 126, so I know the meter is working. Thank you everyone for your help. I am not giving up. :)
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I am so happy your not giving up--sure is a pretty kitty!!
It is possible it was a bad strip but 30 ish is low--if using alpha track it is very -dangerously low.....
we have a phrase here that we tend to use often--
better too high for a day than too low for a moment-
on a human meter 30 ish is still too low for safety purposes--
I am not experienced enough to guide you so I am going to bump this up and hope to get some expert eyes on you for help-
If you change your thread title to a ? new BG reading of 30 (something like that ) I am sure a few experts here can help-
I am really glad he is acting normal but I am thinking he should have some medium carb food (just a little) .....if he is at 30 he needs to come up--
BUMP
 
I'd definitely re-test to make sure!! 30 is way too low no matter what meter you use. (Which meter are you using?)

8 units is a HUGE amount of insulin and since we don't have any data on Pervis, it's totally possible he's hypoglycemic .....they don't always show any symptoms until they start to have seizures

Where abouts in Missouri do you live @Nervous Pervis and Terri
 
If he's still below 50 mg/dL, please give a teaspoon of high carb gray or a few drops of Karo syrup now.
Then, in 30 minutes, test him again.
Repeat the high carb or Karo if he is still below 50 mg/dL.
Continue this every 30 minutes until he is past his likely low point, around +5 to +7 hours post-shot for ProZinc.

And read over the following just in case you need it tonight.

How to Handle Hypos - They Can Kill
 
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Well we're almost neighbors!! I grew up in KC (went to Raytown schools)....Now I live in Versailles, down by the Lake of the Ozarks so only about 1 1/2-2 hours away

Unless Pervis has been diagnosed with acromegaly or insulin resistance (IAA).....both of which take specialized blood tests only done at Michigan State University, 8 units is a lot

Treating diabetic dogs and diabetic cats is a LOT different and for him to be on 8 units after only being diagnosed Jan 29th, I really fear for his life

 
Chris & China said:
Well we're almost neighbors!! I grew up in KC (went to Raytown schools)....Now I live in Versailles, down by the Lake of the Ozarks so only about 1 1/2-2 hours away

Unless Pervis has been diagnosed with acromegaly or insulin resistance (IAA).....both of which take specialized blood tests only done at Michigan State University, 8 units is a lot

Treating diabetic dogs and diabetic cats is a LOT different and for him to be on 8 units after only being diagnosed Jan 29th, I really fear for his life
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so glad the experts are here!!:)
 
Just in case that was an accurate test, give some high carb NOW.

And if you have to, aim for the vein directly. It may bleed a bit profusely, but you'll get a test. Just blot firmly afterward.
 
His reading is 27. I rubbed some honey on his gums and he is eating now. There was a lot of blood, which means I probably did hit the nerve. Unfortunately, i had to take the blood from the bathroom floor because I got an error on the strip and had to move to grab a new one so Pervis escaped. I'll retake in 20 minutes or so.
 
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Ok...we are waiting for the next test. It might take a while for dry food to kick in so I hoping the HC treats will do it. You will need to stay on top of testing tonight until he's up over 150 or so and hasn't had any high carb in a couple hours.

You need to be sure and reduce his dose tomorrow. I'm not a ProZinc user and it's kind of hard to tell you much without a spreadsheet. You might want to post before you shoot tomorrow and see if any ProZinc users are on but I'd think at least a 0.5u reduction minimum. You might need to reduce more but I'd really feel better if you posted before you shot in the morning.

If he is below 200 in the morning, you should skip the shot, ok?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Ok...we are waiting for the next test. It might take a while for dry food to kick in so I hoping the HC treats will do it. You will need to stay on top of testing tonight until he's up over 150 or so and hasn't had any high carb in a couple hours.

You need to be sure and reduce his dose tomorrow. I'm not a ProZinc user and it's kind of hard to tell you much without a spreadsheet. You might want to post before you shoot tomorrow and see if any ProZinc users are on but I'd think at least a 0.5u reduction minimum. You might need to reduce more but I'd really feel better if you posted before you shot in the morning.

If he is below 200 in the morning, you should skip the shot, ok?
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He just had some more honey and some more high carb treats about 8 minutes ago. I have him back in the bathroom (the testing room), so I will test him here in a bit and let you know.

Yes, I will reduce his dose tomorrow or skip the shot in the morning if he's below 200. Today is my first testing day and it's been such a struggle I haven't posted anything to my spreadsheet yet.
 
Tag me or send me a private message tomorrow if you need help with setting up the spreadsheet. It will only take me seconds to do for you.

I'll wait for the next test but it should be soon, ok? The 27 was 36 minutes ago and so we should have gotten HC in him right away and tested in 15 minutes.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Tag me or send me a private message tomorrow if you need help with setting up the spreadsheet. It will only take me seconds to do for you.

I'll wait for the next test but it should be soon, ok? The 27 was 36 minutes ago and so we should have gotten HC in him right away and tested in 15 minutes.
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He's only back up to 30.
 
I really think you should go to the ER. I'd give him a good amount of karo, take it with you, and go. With meter variance, that is the same number.

Can you do that?
 
Hi Terri.

Marje asked me to look in on you in case she fell asleep. I see you took Pervis to the ER. I'm sure you're pretty stressed, but when you have a chance, we'd love an update on how things are going. For sure Pervis will need a reduction tomorrow. I hope everything is okay.
 
Great. Big sigh of relief. I'm glad he's coming up.

For that much insulin with him not coming up more after high carb that late in the cycle, it's better to be safe than sorry.

I hope all will be fine. Thanks for updating us.
 
what a first day!! You did great and I am so glad you posted and others were able to guide you with Mr NP :cat:
Hoping for a good vet report:bighug:
 
Hello! Thanks again for all your help last night. If I wouldn't have found this forum and started glucose testing, I would not have caught Nervous Pervis's low readings and who knows what the outcome would have been.

I talked to the vet and he is now off the glucose because his readings are back up. They are suggesting a switch to Lantus He is going to remain there until later in the day so they can continue to monitor him to see if his numbers continue to rise or they level out.

I'll keep you posted.
 
Chris & China said:
Well we're almost neighbors!! I grew up in KC (went to Raytown schools)....Now I live in Versailles, down by the Lake of the Ozarks so only about 1 1/2-2 hours away

Unless Pervis has been diagnosed with acromegaly or insulin resistance (IAA).....both of which take specialized blood tests only done at Michigan State University, 8 units is a lot

Treating diabetic dogs and diabetic cats is a LOT different and for him to be on 8 units after only being diagnosed Jan 29th, I really fear for his life
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@Chris and China - I moved to KC after college from St. Joseph, which is about 50 miles north. Someday, I'm hoping for warm and tropical. :joyful:
 
He was overdosed on the 8 units per shot! Your initial vet could have killed him.
It may be he could be quite successful on a moderate dose of 1-2 units per shot.

If you do go with Lantus or Levemir, the cost in Canada is about 1/3 of what it costs in the US.
Check in our Supply Closet, or consider ordering from Mark's Marine.
 
I'm so glad he is well and they are cautious. If it had been one low reading and he had come up, it would have been ok to keep him at home but from what I can figure from the posts, he was in the 30s/20s close to three hours and barely budging (54) with food and karo. That's just too long.

Lantus is a great insulin as well and if you decide to switch, we would love to see you in our Lantus/Levemir insulin support group on this forum. We have lots of L/L users and lots of experience...as in all of FDMB...a very friendly and caring group of people to help. Dosing on Lantus is different than dosing ProZinc.....we dose primarily on the nadir or peak action of the insulin (lowest number) rather than the preshot.

And again, if you need help with the spreadsheet, just let me know. It's best to send me a private message as I get notifications of those quickly. To send a PM, click on our names to the left under Princess Gracie's photo and click on "start conversation".

Thanks so very much for letting us know he's well.

Nervous Pervis and Terri said:
Someday, I'm hoping for warm and tropical. :joyful:
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You and me, too, sister! I got the warm but would love the tropical.
 
Nervous Pervis and Terri said:
Someday, I'm hoping for warm and tropical
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Well Bermuda it's not, but I know those 50 miles can make a big difference.....the weather in KC was usually more stable and warmer than it was in St Joseph!

Good to hear they're considering going with Lantus...we have a very large bunch of other Lantus users here and we're an active group. You'll get lots of help using Lantus

Be prepared though....it's expensive! ....but we have ways around that too! Have your vet give you a written script for Lantus Solostar Pens (box of 5) instead of the 10mL vial. With the pens, you can use every last drop of the insulin, but with the vials, the insulin will "poop out" before you have a chance to use more than about half of it so you end up throwing a lot away. The pens are only 3mL each.

Read the info in this post from the Insulin from Canadian Pharmacies thread....if it weren't for Marks, a lot of us couldn't afford to keep our cats on Lantus. They're $149.99 .....Your Walmart is going to want close to $500...for the same exact thing.

You'll also need to get U100 syringes with half unit markings. All these have half unit markings and are the correct syringes for U100 insulin and are available from ADW online:
UtiCare
Monoject
Carepoint
Sure Comfort

They're also available at WalMart if you have one near you..Their Relion Brand 3/10ml, 3o or 31 gauge, 8mm insulin syringes all come with half unit markings and are only $12.58 for a box of 100

It will take about a week to get the lantus from Marks, but in the meantime we could talk about staying on the ProZinc (at a MUCH reduced dose) or figuring out a way to get you some lantus quicker.

So glad Pervis is doing better and hope he comes home later today!!
 
BJM said:
He was overdosed on the 8 units per shot! Your initial vet could have killed him.
It may be he could be quite successful on a moderate dose of 1-2 units per shot.

If you do go with Lantus or Levemir, the cost in Canada is about 1/3 of what it costs in the US.
Check in our Supply Closet, or consider ordering from Mark's Marine.
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Yes, I agree. Unfortunately, I was following blindly.
 
Nervous Pervis and Terri said:
Hello! Thanks again for all your help last night. If I wouldn't have found this forum and started glucose testing, I would not have caught Nervous Pervis's low readings and who knows what the outcome would have been.

I talked to the vet and he is now off the glucose because his readings are back up. They are suggesting a switch to Lantus He is going to remain there until later in the day so they can continue to monitor him to see if his numbers continue to rise or they level out.

I'll keep you posted.
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Just seeing all this now. So glad you caught it and got help. The same thing happened to me the first day I joined. Smokey was hypo and I didn't know it and couldn't get to the ER. The good people here pulled us through.

Hope Pervis is feeling better and comes home today.
 
Terri,

Are you in the states? I have 30 of the Wal-Mart u100 syringes with half marks. If you do switch to Lantus I can send them to you to get started. Send me PM. If you want them.
 
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