GA 5.21.15 Zoey amps 148/ +2 33 /+3 LO. /@3.5 20/ @4 38/@4.75 20/@5 24/+20 m 25 /

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Rose

Rose

Member Since 2015
Good morning!

Zoe-Zoe is SO-SO. (Same old, same old).:confused: She's in her favorite garden spot this morning and I'm set up to work outside so she can enjoy the morning awhile. Going to pick up anti-nausea meds when vet opens.

Paws crossed.

Game I play, finding the positive: Zoe has bright eyes, she's still headstrong and full of fight and determination and we both love the outdoors and get to spend our morning there. Day's off to a good start!:cat:

Hope everyone has a wonderful day today!

Yesterday.
 
Zoey in her spot.jpg
 
sweet, sweet photo. Enjoy your garden time Zoey! (is that her cupcake onesie still?!)
Hope your day continues as nicely as it started!
 
Yep, it IS her cupcake onesie. She gets changed two or even three times a day ... depending on what she gets into and if they're damp from the steam room. :)

She's already low, a little less than two hours in. She's gone on a walk-about this morning. Out to the front frog pond and laid on the rocks to watch the goldfish. She retraced her Krawl to the garage where the kibble is kept .. but turned her nose up at it. She's camped out under the vines that house the cardinals and watched the activity. It's been a great morning for Zoe.

She's in her daddy's lap getting syringe fed stuff to boost her up. I'll check her BG shortly.

I'm wondering what would be if her depot wasn't drained.

Tell me, what is worse, dying from a low bg or being put to sleep? I worry about her dipping during a blink or a life distraction or sleep -- would she suffer more if that were to happen or would the trip to the vet and the strange surroundings and being put to sleep be worse? These are the thoughts that linger in the back of my mind. Any thoughts or medical wisdom to share on such things?
 
(sigh) ... Lo. I've given her a good dose of honey and she's drinking a lot of water so hopefully that will pull her back up. She's totally at peace today. She's not acting hypo. She's casually walking around, visiting with her sisters, lying on the rug on the porch watching her birds. I'm not going to stress over this and run her to the vet to do a bunch of stuff to stress her out. Make no mistake, I will do everything in my power, here at home, to keep her with us another day. And if I see that she's suffering in any way, I will run her to the vet at that point -- but if this is the day that Zoey decides to peacefully move forward, it's been a great day for her.

Prayers for Zoe, please.
 
Rose said:
@Megan & Oren -- I've looked for Oren's condo. Am I missing it? Zoey's sweet on him and likes to see how he's doing.
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Aw, sorry Zoey, didn't mean to hide your orange boy...He's been worried sick about you too!! He wants to tell you he thinks you're too cute for words in those little onesies, and envies your ritzy home spa treatments!

I've been so down about developments of late, i haven't been good about posting. Mostly had been staying pink and red for several days, with a yellow here and there. After a slightly hopeful day 2 days ago where it's possible he even got into blue numbers, he has reversed, probably a bounce, and the dreaded HI showed up this AMPS. First black in several days, and first HI in months? I'm limping along till next Wed. when I hope to be done with ISTHATCLEAR vet after the followup recheck for ear and pancreatitis. Overall, he seems ok; still purry, eating well, no keytones(yet), but definitely peeing more, lower energy.
I'm even feeling skepticism from some friends here who have diabetic cats and are w/ vets who basically also follow the 'loose regulation', shoot blind, keep them from going hypo (which one friend said was 60s!) etc. Defended my vets reaction as imagine if you were bombarded with people getting information off the internet, and 1 study doesn't prove anything blah blah blah(and only mildly agreed her tone was condescending).

It's all so exhausting as to be numbing.

as to your thoughts re: hypo vs. PTS: from what I understand, I don't think hypo would be a pleasant way to go..seizures, coma etc. Is there any chance Great Vet would make a house call? I know of vets here who do make home visits for the end, which would certainly make it a much less stressful experience for Zoey, although not much less difficult for you. I know of friends here who have had the home option, and felt much better about the whole experience. I sure hope it doesn't have to come to that for valiant Zoey and you, but I can totally understand these thoughts being in your mind, as you are such a devoted caretaker. Continuing to send many vines and prayers and warm, enveloping light for the Zoey household. So glad she is having a lovely day today. Sometimes that's all you can do, is go day to day, and find the small blessing in each.

ETA: Cross-posted my response with your 2nd followup. Oh dear Zoey, as many prayers as possible are going up. May you find the right path with the easiest, most comfortable trip as possible, wherever it leads.
 
Please come up, Zoey...that is way, way, way too low. What Megan says is correct: dying from a hypo would not be a pleasant, quick, painless experience. If she isn't coming up after that second dose of honey, I would consider taking her to the vet for a glucose drip.

It sounds like Zoey is having a very nice day, and she looks beautiful in the garden with her cupcakes onsie! More and more prayers from us!
 
Gardens and birds are nice, but above 50 is better. Come on up Miss Zoey!:eek::D

There's still a long ways to go in the cycle. I'd keep testing every 20 minutes at this point until she's up quite a bit. If you go to the vet, take karo/honey/syrup with you and keep rubbing it on her gums.

Time for a big reduction in dose, next time you shoot. Kitties who have really low numbers can be extra sensitive to insulin. Maybe 2.0 units? We can think about that later, depending on how the cycle goes.
 
Who thought I'd sigh in relief at 38? :eek: Good job Rose! She's headed in the right direction. But you'll have to be vigilant for a while as that honey wears off.

And now I can stop and admire the picture of cute Zoey in her onsie in the garden. Good luck with all you decide to do today. :bighug:
 
Better, Zoey, but up a little more, OK?? I'm amazed that she wasn't feeling symptoms with that LO. I could always tell when Trix fell to the upper 30s (which only happened a couple times) because she would become absolutely frantic for food.
 
Lots and lots of vines to sweet Zoey, hopefully they'll help haul her out of the lagoon. It certainly seems the meds are working the way they're supposed to re: insulin response, but gosh that has to be scary. :bighug::bighug:
 
Amy, I remember someone telling me when we first joined the thread that when cats are low they search out food. There are two food bowls right here beside us on the porch and she's purring and watching birds. Zoey has been very ... Zen today. I don't know how to explain it. It's very different and as she has visited all of her haunts and kissed each of her sisters (which she hasn't done in weeks) I couldn't help but wonder if this was her day or if she was turning a corner. Of course, we're voting for the corner so she can chase a few lizards and lay under the trees at the water's edge again. Nothing would make us happier than to see her enjoy herself like that just one more time.

We've given her some Cerenia ... paws crossed.

And Wendy ... I was excited over the 20 and 38 is like no sweat and we feel safe. Something wrong with that picture, huh? (Thank you for being calm, too.)
 
I'm hoping for/thinking it's "turning a corner", too. Last year, Trix was very sick with p-titis, and many of her old behaviors vanished. It took many months before she really started going back to what she used to do (as you say in today's thread, one of her old behaviors just came back this past week!). I think Zoey knows you are helping her feel better, and she's more relaxed and Zen because she IS feeling better. At least that is what I'm saying in my prayers for her!
 
Rose

I wish I had something profound and wise to say but I don't. My prayers and thoughts are with Zoey, you and DH.

Sending positive thoughts for healing and peace. :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
 
We like those thoughts, Amy! Ty!

Thank you, Mary Ann. Prayers and thoughts work great!

She's going the opposite direction if you give her even an inch! Just fed her half an ounce of MC food dosed with 1/2 tspn. of honey. I'll check her in 20 minutes to see where she is. If that doesn't get her above 50 I'm going to funnel it into her. (sarcasm -- it's how I cope.)
 
Rose said:
We like those thoughts, Amy! Ty!

Thank you, Mary Ann. Prayers and thoughts work great!

She's going the opposite direction if you give her even an inch! Just fed her half an ounce of MC food dosed with 1/2 tspn. of honey. I'll check her in 20 minutes to see where she is. If that doesn't get her above 50 I'm going to funnel it into her. (sarcasm -- it's how I cope.)
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I might funnel it in her anyways in your position!! I'd want to get her solidly over 50. Come on up darling Zoey, there's nothing cool that far out in the lagoon!
 
Oh, I'm almost there, Patricia. Luckily she's moving up a little so we'll continue to check and smear every 20 minutes until she's solidly over 75. I just gave her another solid dose of nothing but honey.
 
Rose said:
Oh, I'm almost there, Patricia. Luckily she's moving up a little so we'll continue to check and smear every 20 minutes until she's solidly over 75. I just gave her another solid dose of nothing but honey.
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Yeah at this point I might just dose the honey every 10 mins or so and use the checks to make sure it's working. Doesn't seem like you have to worry about overcarbing her... Can you drain some gravy from a can of HC and give that too? May with with the syringe that way or just blending the can and syringe that.
 
She just won a staring contest with a really big lizard. He ran away scared and thankful he was on the other side of the screen. She meant business.

Laura .. putting HC gravy in every serving. She's alert and calm so I will be, too. :)
 
Your vet is close, right? If she's not up soon you may want to think glucose drip, no need to risk sustained low numbers.

ETA: Of course she's bullying lizards :rolleyes: Zoey follows no rule book that's for sure.
 
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Zoey, up you come - that's way too deep in the lagoon for playing with the other kitties. It does sound as though she's feeling pretty good and happy in herself today, though those numbers are very low. I'm glad your vet isn't far away, just in case you need to get her there quickly - you'd think that all that HC and honey would have to do something. I think she must have heard about the 50% dose reduction she's meant to have in the first 2 weeks on her new meds...being Zoey she's going to have to be dramatic about earning it of course!!
 
pulling out all the stops and feeding nothing but gravy and honey here. 20 ml of gravy and a mouthful of honey. Really thought when she hit that 38 that we were on the climb back up. Smacked down yet again for thinking out loud.
 
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: Zoey sweetie, please listen to your aunties and come up now. You've made your point.

Looking a little bit like the day Linda's Scooter went from 5.5u to zero. :rolleyes:A skip is looking like the way to go tonight. This depot needs to be drained. :arghh: Any way the vet or tech could come out and give Zoey a glucose drip? This is too long in numbers this low.
 
We're giving it a few more 20 minutes cycles and then to the vet. That or if she dips LO again.

I just read what you wrote Wendy ... is the length of time this low harmful even if she's showing no signs? How is a glucose drip different than feeding straight honey and syrup? We just fed her straight gravy. Planning to check her in 15. Then off to the vet for drip.
 
The drip will go straight into her bloodstream so it should bring her up faster as she doesn't have to digest the food first. It'll probably take her higher too but as she's almost guaranteed to bounce anyway, that's a secondary consideration at this point after she's been so low for so long.
 
It sounds like Zoey hasn't been showing signs of hypo so she may be OK. It's just too dangerous having her that low for so long. You are walking the edge.

The drip will also not fill her up, where food/honey might do that. I'd worry if she throws it up.
 
At some point she is probably going to be too full and not want any more food or gravy. Then, its going to be difficult to get her rising at all.
 
The liver's main function is to keep the cat safe from low BG by stimulating glucose production. When a cat is being fed dry/high carb food keeping the BG constantly high, the liver becomes accustomed to those high numbers and basically goes to sleep, no longer able to do it's job. Once the dry/high carb food has been removed from the diet, over a three day period the liver "wakes up" and will resume its most important function, kicking out glucagon to protect the brain. If you give syrup or high carb foods to low BG with no symptoms of clinical hypo, you run the risk of putting the liver back to sleep, resulting in your cat being at continued risk of clinical hypo for the next three days.

Just read this ... does this mean her liver is asleep on the job and this could go on for three days? Her numbers have come up 5 points in the last few minutes.
 
You guys have my attention, you really do. Trying very hard to bring her up at home so we don't spend another two hundred dollars today at the vet. We're spending money that we definitely don't have so if we can save it with some extra work on this end, and she's not suffering, then that's what's driving us. We want to be safe though and not cause her harm. Let this food that we've just fed her kick in and if she's not on the way up with significant rises and getting her above 50, we will take her. We want to be able to breathe easier, as well.
 
Rose said:
I just read what you wrote Wendy ... is the length of time this low harmful even if she's showing no signs? How is a glucose drip different than feeding straight honey and syrup?
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Just because she's not showing symptoms does not mean damage isn't being done by remaining in low numbers for so long. A drip will bring her up faster than anything you could possibly do at home.

Please, things could change in an instant and it could get ugly. One of the drawbacks of using a long acting insulin is they are capable of producing prolonged hypoglycemia. A few years ago we saw a vet induced hypo go on for a couple of days. I'm not saying that's what we'll see here. Just giving an example... a possibility.

I understand the financial concerns, but you're not dealing with a usual/normal low number event. I can't tell you what to do, but you need help with her today. This has gone on too long already.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Sending more prayers that those numbers come up. You're doing a great job, but she is being stubborn! As the others have said, you do also have to worry about her vomiting or becoming too full, now that she's had so much sugary goodness. So adding even more prayers...up and stay safe, Zoey!!
 
Rose said:
The liver's main function is to keep the cat safe from low BG by stimulating glucose production. When a cat is being fed dry/high carb food keeping the BG constantly high, the liver becomes accustomed to those high numbers and basically goes to sleep, no longer able to do it's job. Once the dry/high carb food has been removed from the diet, over a three day period the liver "wakes up" and will resume its most important function, kicking out glucagon to protect the brain. If you give syrup or high carb foods to low BG with no symptoms of clinical hypo, you run the risk of putting the liver back to sleep, resulting in your cat being at continued risk of clinical hypo for the next three days.
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I'm not entirely sure which website you found that on Rose (though I have suspicions). That sounds incredibly dangerous to me to let a cat run in low numbers without intervention until they show symptoms - sometimes cats can become dangerously symptomatic very quickly. And I've never heard of a cat's liver going to sleep because we've intervened with sugar at low levels - more often they bounce for those 3 days than run low again.

See where this last lot of food takes her - if she follows anything close to her normal cycle she should be getting ready to start coming back up around now so if she isn't then I think that will be the time for vet intervention to make sure she gets above 50 quickly.
 
manxcat419 said:
I'm not entirely sure which website you found that on Rose (though I have suspicions). That sounds incredibly dangerous to me to let a cat run in low numbers without intervention until they show symptoms - sometimes cats can become dangerously symptomatic very quickly.
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It sounds to me like it's from YDC or it's off-shoot, Diabetic Cat Care... from Dr. Hodgkins.
It is dangerous. Several members of the FDMB have witnessed (online on another web site) problems with this philosophy... including death. I've personally been online in the wee hours of the morning with two caregivers in two separate incidents whose kitties didn't make it. It was a horrific experience from this side of the computer. I can't imagine what the caregivers were going through.

Don't believe everything you read, please.

I don't want to come off as an alarmist using scare tactics, but bad stuff can happen and it can happen so quickly that there won't be time to help her. Please take her in while you can if her numbers aren't showing a substantial rise soon.
 
((((((Rose))))) Here's some more of the strongest prayers and vines that you are at the vet and your little sweetie is on a glucose drip, whatever the outcome, please know you're in my prayers!
 
There are many eyes on Zoey's thread. Our community cares about each other, you, DH, and Zoey.
Sending boat loads of positive thoughts and prayers.
Please update when you can...
 
I just can't read all of these posts right now.

I listened to everything everyone said, really I did. I knew in my heart that taking her to the vet would be the last straw and it was. After my last post and all of our efforts to bring her up at home I knew we were in trouble because the number had dropped a few points yet again. We wasted no time in grabbing her and leaving the house. I left my phone (I'm so sorry) We took her to the vet to get the drip. She rode the whole way there, looking out the window and alert ... just like another ride. I was upset because we've reached the end of our financial rope and I just knew it was going to be cost prohibitive. (Damned if you do, damned if you don't.) DH took her in and they checked her out and all the vets consulted and pretty much all concluded that Zoey had too much stacked against her to make it. The ulcer on the end of her nose was most likely cancer and they wanted to leave hope for us yesterday as long as she was being alert and showing signs of improvement. They said she would require at least a 3-day hospital stay and that with her not eating (could be nausea from cancer) that Zoe was just up against too, too much and we would most likely find ourselves facing the same decision in the near future. All we could think about was the suffering she would go through if she were in hypo so we let her go.

Our hearts are broken but it was time. She's in a box curled up in her bird-covered onsie and looks restful and at peace. No more syringes, or shots ... just peace. I think she knew today was the day. I really can't explain the difference in her today but she knew it was time and she made peace with it. We will lay her to rest in her favorite garden spot so she can look over her pond with all of her favored birds.

I cannot thank all of you enough for all of your time and prayers and support ... without it, we would not have made it this far. Zoey's life has had purpose. We've learned a great deal from her that we hope to be able to share and hopefully something good will come from her journey here with another member somewhere in the future. That would be a good thing.

Thank you all, so very, very much. :bighug:
 
cat_wings>oOh, Rose, I'm so sorry, tears and hugs for sweet little Zoey. You'll miss her so much. Picture her now, running free in a fragrant meadow, chasing butterflies, or laying in the soft grass, soaking up the sun. No more pain. Rest peacefully, little girl.
 
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