Prozinc advice needed: Another day, a hundred more questions. :)

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Thaiger & Katie said:
at 100 +7 hours later! Another 10 minutes would be 2 hours without food. @phlika29 - safe to go to bed now? :) Okay to wait until 10 or 11 or the AM shot?
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I would say it is okay to go to bed. With regards the am shot I don't think I would wait till 11am. Personally I would split the difference unless someone tells you otherwise. So retest at 9.30, if over 200 give the 0.5 unit and then give the insulin. You are okay to monitor BG during the day aren't you?
 
Stacym20 said:
If it's close-ish to 200 I might stall and shoot if rising without food. I think 170ish and under I don't think I would even bother stalling and just forego the shot. I don't really want to give dosing advice since since you just started insulin and we don't have a lot of data on different doses yet. I might be tempted to just shoot at 8am and forego the 8pm shot altogether to stay on the 8/8 schedule but maybe someone with more experience could agree or disagree.
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Katie did you see this post ? I missed it. I would follow stacey's advice. Not mine.
 
hopefully someone with more proZinc knowledge can help before 8, that's just what I would do personally is try and keep the 8/8 schedule
 
One last thing. Can you edit the title of your post to something with prozinc in it ie prozinc dosing schedule advice needed
 
In the future, if you know you have someplace you have to be that's going to screw up your schedule, start several days early so that by the time you're "there", you're not so far off of the 12 hour shots

If you'd know 4 days prior to an event where you'd be gone until 10 (for example) and your usual shot times are 8/8 you could have shot at
8:15am/8:30pm
8:45am/9:00pm
9:15am/9:30pm
9:45am/10pm

But it sounds like it's too late for that now.....but something to keep in mind for the future
 
Sorry all - I'd left my account logged in and gone to take a nap ahead of Rosa's last test. Glad to hear Thaiger's safe and back into good numbers.
 
Thaiger & Katie said:
PM shot at 11pm (2/7) and give .5
Check BG at 8am on (2/8) and if >200, give .5 (this would only be 9 hours since the last shot) - trying to figure out how to get her back on the 8am and 8pm schedule..
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Katie, I agree that it would be simplest all round if you could skip that evening shot.
However, if the BG is high when you get home, I would suggest giving the shot. ('If the cat needs insulin, it needs insulin.')

If you do give the evening shot then, as you say Katie, when it comes to the morning shot that would mean that it's only been 9 hours since the previous shot.

Even if the BG is over 200 in the morning (and therefore deemed shootable) there is the fact that there may still be some insulin in the system from the previous shot, and the shots could be 'overlapping'.
I use a long-lasting PZI that works on overlap. And that means that each insulin shot gets a 'kick up the backside' from the previous shot, some of which is still in the system (although is wearing off at that point).
If you were to shoot a .5 dose that morning (9 hours after the previous shot), it may have more effect than a 'typical' .5 dose. Does that make sense..?

It may actually turn out that Thaiger's BG isn't high enough to shoot in the morning at +9. So you could skip that shot. That would be simple too!

An alternative to skipping a shot is to shoot a reduced dose.
Sometimes, even a nominal amount of insulin can act as a sort of 'duration booster'. And even if that small amount of insulin isn't enough to actually drop the BG much, it can still stop the BG rising so high/fast before the next shot. (Sorry if this is all too much information too soon...)

I think you're going to have to 'play it by ear', Katie.
We know so little at the moment about Thaiger's response to insulin so it's impossible to predict how things will play out over the next few days. (It'd be nice if he'd just sail into remission....;))

Well done for today. Top job. :bighug:

I hope you get some good sleep.
We're here whenever you need us.

Eliz
 
Good morning guys... It's times for our AM shot and she is at 87 so i'm not doing a damn thing! is 87 okay? does she get her wet food like normal? do I check again in a couple of hours and then maybe shoot? If you weren't following the drama in this thread last night, the info is in the comments section of her spreadsheet.

@BJM -- I see you're online... :)
 
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Yup, checking in on you.
Good call on skipping the dose.
Today, if you can, pick up some U-100 syringes so you can dose in smaller amounts.
U-100 means 100 units per mL
U-40 means 40 units per mL, so 40% less per mL
Multiply the U-100 syringe marks by 0.4 to adjust them, and you get
0.4 * 0.5 = 0.2 units of U-40
0.4 * 1.0 = 0.4 units of U-40
0.4 * 1.5 = 0.6 units of U-40
0.4 * 2.0 = 0.8 units of U-40
0.4 * 2.5 = 1.0 units of U-40

Basically every 0.5 unit mark on a U-100 syring equals 0.2 units of U-40
 
Ok, so she shouldn't get a morning shot at all? Okay to go ahead and give her some breakfast?
Also, can u get syringes from any pharmacy? And it looks like if I want to give half a unit, then I'll be aiming for the 1.25 mark on a u100 syringe.
 
No shot under 150 mg/dl without serious test data showing it is safe.
Unless your location requires an Rx, get syringes which are:
U-100
3/10 cc (mL)
Short or long needle (I like short)
29, 30, OR 31 gauge (I like 30)
 
We are now at +15 from the PM shot and at 156. I'm trying not to poke her more than every 3 hours at this point because she seemed to be getting sore after the drama last night. I will be gone at my event from 7pm-11pm so if she gets above 200 before then, should I give her .5u or skip it since I won't be around to monitor?
 
Actually, I'd suggest eyeballing 0.25 units, or getting some U-100 syringes and using the conversion chart (see link in next post by Elizabeth and Bertie). Each 0.5 unit mark on a U-100 syringe measures 0.2 units of ProZinc.
Then if above 200 mg/dL, you could shoot a very cautious dose.
 
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So it is +19 hours since her insulin shot and we are only at 208.. I'll be leaving in 3 hours and will be gone for 3-4 hours (so I won't be home to keep watch on her). Should I hold off on a shot and just wait until 8am tomorrow which is what I would like the schedule to be or is it safe to shoot a smaller dosage now? She was at 246 last night before getting 1u and got low into the 40's before the 6 hours mark..
 
It looks like just 1 unit still takes her too low when starting from around 250. At that level, you might look at 0.75 or 0.6 (using a U-100 syringe)

At barely over 200, maybe 0.25 units if you feel like you can eyeball it.

If she has ever had ketones, you want to shoot; if not, it may be OK to skip until tomorrow.
 
No ketones that I know of (adopted her 5 years ago and she is 16). I also don't have u100 syringes yet so I would be totally eyeballing.. I think I'll pick up u100 tonight while I'm out and then test her when I get home around 10... if she is above 250, should I give her .25u to get her through the night and then get her in early afternoon tomorrow or wait until 8am so she is back on schedule? I feel bad for not having her on a schedule and am trying not to overlap shots.
 
See how she is when you get home. A token dose to tide her over to morning should be OK if she's high enough. Then you can work on the schedule in the morning.
 
Played it safe and went with .5u from a 100u syringe which i believe is about .2u for a u40 syringe, yes? Will be home in 4 hours t ocheck on her

It seemed like such a tiny amount and was still difficult to eyeball even with the u100 syringe! Thanks for the conversion chart.
 
Sorry I am just now seeing this! I think 0.2 should be just fine. And being able to check in at +4 is perfect. I'll be checking in on you later!
 
+4 and we are at 354... Looks like the tiny amt of insulin didn't do anything for us... Is leaving it alone until 8am still the best option?
 
You want to be able to shoot in the morning, so you would only want a small dose to keep it from going too high. Maybe 0.25 - 0.5 units?
 
Would I then have to be concerned about two nadirs again like @Stacym20 mentioned? I would really like to be able to get her on the 8am and 8pm schedule tomorrow since I have to go back to work on Monday and will be gone all day - would like to make sure that going to .5U tomorrow instead of the 1u will be safe when I can't be at home to monitor.

And just for my education - when we talk about .25 or .5, are we talking in u40 or u100 measurements? I was referring to U40.

3rd question - please excuse my ignorance... But: how long does the insulin needle need to be to make sure it's going subcu? The U100s I picked up today are 8mm longbut the U40's from the vet are 12.7mm
 
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With the tiny doses, I think it is unlikely that you'd need to worry about the overlapping nadirs issues. If you were shooting full doses, I'd be very concerned.

I was referring to 0.25 units whatever you use to measure it. If you use a U-100 syringe for a U-40 insulin, you report the actual dose in units, not what is marked on the syringe. On a U-100 syringe with half unit markings, each tick mark = 0.2 units of U-40.

I use the short 8 mm needles and have no problem with it going in.
 
okay - i'll get another.2 - .3 into her now and then call it a night... Is it correct to think that if her levels are in the high 300s or even back to the 400s i was seeing a day ago that she should stick to 1u? She got low when I did 1U with the starting point of 260.

Was probably closer to .4u - it's so difficult getting these tiny doses!!
 
If you pulled to the second full unit mark on the U100 syringe it would be 0.8 units if you wanted to try that. 1 unit might be okay if you'd be around to monitor
 
I went just about to the first line on the u100 syringe so about .4 and then she had about .2 a few hours ago = ~.6 and 1u took her to the 40's last night - though her starting number was much lower.

....I just realized that you were probably talking about her morning dose... D'oh! Lack of sleep catching up on me.
 
I'll be shocked if I see anything lower than 300 in the morning so i'll plan on trying .. Thanks for the plethora of advice. I feel much more helpful to her with this education.
 
Hahaha my msg was supposed to say plan on trying .8 in the morning. I'm losing it. Goodnight y'all.

Should I be concerned with getting up to check her numbers in a few hours or is she high enough that it isn't needed?
 
I would *think* she would be okay but it never hurts to set an alarm for a +4 or +5 for piece of mind. :)
 
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