8/1/15 Lucy AMPS=265 +3=121 +4=59, 41 +5=63 +6=88 +7=108 +9=128 PMPS=337

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Wendy&Neko said:
88 is good. You can go longer between tests now. She might bounce due to the numbers lower than she is used to. If she is high at the next shot time, you could shoot the old higher dose one more time before reducing in the AM. We call that shooting through the bounce. It can help them get over the bounce.

Next time this happens, and it will, keep track of the amout of high carb food and/or honey so you can figure out what works for Lucy.

Serryn, I am up for another hour but would be grateful if you could keep an eye on things.
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Thank you so much Wendy. Your support was invaluable and have a good night too.
 
I was thinking considering I gave nearly a whole can of gravy lovers and honey too that the glucose levels have not risen all that much since we had the lowest reading of 2.3/41. I would have expected the reading to be higher but it is all good information and I do record what I feed Lucy every day and how much I feed her too.
 
and when did you last feed?

Spreadsheet notes:
don't forget you also need to manually update the US version when you have more than one number in the cell, e.g. in the +4 column
also it is handy if in the remarks column you put what you fed and when (in terms of + whatever AM or PM and how much of what variety, e.g LC, HC, syrup)

When that info is included people can see what has worked for Lucy and what hasn't, e.g. when you've noted the +3 feed we can see that the significant low carb feed today at +3 didn't seem to slow her down at all, also we will see that she didn't rise after the high carb (HC) at +4. On this basis we can see that she may be a syrup sort of girl and/or need more than a couple of tsp of HC to get her numbers up. Early days yet and with that being the first time you've had to manage low numbers we can't be sure of anything yet but if the info is included in her spreadsheet it will help the other people that are helping you in future. :)
 
Thank you Serryn. I will put all that information on the spreadsheet. I record what I feed Lucy and I will put that information on the spreadsheet too.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
and when did you last feed?

Spreadsheet notes:
don't forget you also need to manually update the US version when you have more than one number in the cell, e.g. in the +4 column
also it is handy if in the remarks column you put what you fed and when (in terms of + whatever AM or PM and how much of what variety, e.g LC, HC, syrup)

When that info is included people can see what has worked for Lucy and what hasn't, e.g. when you've noted the +3 feed we can see that the significant low carb feed today at +3 didn't seem to slow her down at all, also we will see that she didn't rise after the high carb (HC) at +4. On this basis we can see that she may be a syrup sort of girl and/or need more than a couple of tsp of HC to get her numbers up. Early days yet and with that being the first time you've had to manage low numbers we can't be sure of anything yet but if the info is included in her spreadsheet it will help the other people that are helping you in future. :)
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I last fed Lucy at the last test which was just over half an hour ago and it was a teaspoon of fancy feast grilled.
 
ok get another test an hour after the last one that you did when you fed the tsp - I think that will be +7 and in the meantime no more food or syrup we want to see if she's staying up by herself. I'm just finishing work now so I should be back home and logged on by then :)
 
Looking good - is she due for any regular meals before pmps?

I'm amazed that I havent heard of anyone having an actual heart attack with their first time managing low numbers, Don't worry it gets easier :) especially when you learn how Lucy reacts
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Looking good - is she due for any regular meals before pmps?

I'm amazed that I havent heard of anyone having an actual heart attack with their first time managing low numbers, Don't worry it gets easier :) especially when you learn how Lucy reacts
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I usually feed Lucy her main meals when her insulin dose is due and feed her small snacks during the day so she isn't due for her dinner until later tonight and so she will probably want a small snack before dinner time. Yes I know it will get easier as I learn more about how Lucy reacts and what I need to do. Today I should not have had a delay between the 3.5/63 at +5 and the next test at +6 which was 4.9/88. Lucy looked fine and I didn't want to stress her again so I thought I would wait a bit. But I have to keep telling myself that it is a momentary stress and Lucy forgets about it and starts eating whereas I worry about it for a longer period of time :). But it is all learning and next time like Wendy said I will test every half hour if the readings are in the 50's and 60's. It is all learning and I learnt today the absolute necessity of home glucose testing.
 
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Today I should not have had a delay between the 3.5/63 at +5 and the next test at +6 which was 4.9/88. Lucy looked fine and I didn't want to stress her again so I thought I would wait a bit. But I have to keep telling myself that it is a momentary stress and Lucy forgets about it and starts eating whereas I worry about it for a longer period of time :)
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I'm glad you said that because I was wondering how to put it! (missing laughing smiley again) You are an excellent learner and all's well that ends well - you did really well today, especially considering the stresses you have had over the last couple of days :)

We're probably past +8 by now so how about a +9 just to make sure that after all the food and honey has worn off she's keeping herself up - so we know it's going to be safe to shoot (her reduced dose) tonight.

In case you haven't heard this yet - spreading out the feeding is generally good for a diabetic kitty but don't feed snacks after +10 (unless you have to give a little test treat) - this is to ensure that the preshot test isn't reflecting any food.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
I'm glad you said that because I was wondering how to put it! (missing laughing smiley again) You are an excellent learner and all's well that ends well - you did really well today, especially considering the stresses you have had over the last couple of days :)

We're probably past +8 by now so how about a +9 just to make sure that after all the food and honey has worn off she's keeping herself up - so we know it's going to be safe to shoot (her reduced dose) tonight.

In case you haven't heard this yet - spreading out the feeding is generally good for a diabetic kitty but don't feed snacks after +10 (unless you have to give a little test treat) - this is to ensure that the preshot test isn't reflecting any food.
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Don't worry as I read between the lines and please feel free to always be direct as I will take no offense. I am still learning and want to learn all I can. I was watching Lucy very carefully but with not wanting to stress her and being on the phone to my sister I thought I would wait a bit longer to do the next test. But later when I thought about it I thought I should not have delayed that test. I will do a +9 in ten minutes as we are still at +8 now. Yes the next anxiety will be dose time. :) I don't feed two hours before AMPS and PMPS tests and try to do the same for other tests but thank you for mentioning it.
 
Don't worry about it in relation to other tests, if you note her feeds in her remarks we can take that into account, but it is very important not to feed for two hours before you do the pre shoot test - that is the one with a safety issue attached so we need to know that we're looking at a non food influenced number.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Don't worry about it in relation to other tests, if you note her feeds in her remarks we can take that into account, but it is very important not to feed for two hours before you do the pre shoot test - that is the one with a safety issue attached so we need to know that we're looking at a non food influenced number.
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Okay I understand now thank you. Our +9 is 7.1/128.
 
I am sitting here thinking about what my no dose limit is now. The lowest level I have dosed at was 164 last week. Previous to that it was 189 and since that it was 196 though I can see that dosing at lower levels did not lower the readings. This morning our AMPS was 265 and we had a big drop to 41 at +3. But my comfort level is dosing around 150 at the moment. We will see what our PMPS is soon.
 
Our PMPS is 18.7/337 on the freestyle lite and 23.4/421 on the optium. So it is clear with lower numbers the freestyle lite and the optium give similar readings but not so on the higher readings. I will give the 2.75 units now which is the reduced dose from 3 units due to the low readings today though given the high PMPS I could give the 3 units but I will stick with the protocol to be on the safe side.
 
Congratulations on the reduction.
Good luck with the new dose.
Come on down, nice and easy, Lucy.
 
Hi Voula - it's Serryn in disguise because I'm about to post for Purrdy - apparently Lucy is a very good influence because he's just had his first green!

I'm not surprised Lucy has bounced like that her liver just isn't used to normal bg levels anymore but the more time she spends in those lovely numbers the more mr liver will start to recognise them as normal again.

I think you are probably about ready to dispense with the idea of a certain no dose limit - except for the normal no dose limit for everyone of 50 - you have seen today that it doesn't take a low starting number to get to low numbers and that you can manage the low numbers. You've also seen when you have shot at lower numbers that it doesn't necessarily mean that Lucy's going to go even lower. So how about from now on you just take it as it comes and if you are nervous post for advice :)

Here's to a good nights sleep for you tonight - with a before bed test of course!
 
Thank you so much Serryn for all your support today. It was such a help to me and congratulations to Purrdy on his first green reading too. :) Yes I have seen that pre-dose levels don't mean that much and yes I will certainly post for advice if we have a lower pre-dose reading. Yes I will certainly do a before bed test and probably a middle of the night test too. :) Thank you again.
 
I have a question. It seems that with 3 units and 2.75 units we have had numbers in the greens and blues and with the 2.3/41 we reduced the dose from 3 units to 2.75 units. Now I am seeing high numbers again after the lower numbers so this means this is another bounce. Clearly we can't increase the dose to get those higher numbers down as the nadir was was under 50 so is it now a matter of patience waiting for less bounces so that over time the numbers settle lower with less bouncing?
 
The simple answer is "Yes"....as Lucy spends more time in those lower numbers, her body re-learns that it's OK to be there and doesn't react by bouncing so high and will clear the bounces quicker

Give it some time. I know it's frustrating for you but Lucy's still fairly new to the sugardance...It was 9 months before China started to make some sense in her numbers
 
Voula said:
I have a question. It seems that with 3 units and 2.75 units we have had numbers in the greens and blues and with the 2.3/41 we reduced the dose from 3 units to 2.75 units. Now I am seeing high numbers again after the lower numbers so this means this is another bounce. Clearly we can't increase the dose to get those higher numbers down as the nadir was was under 50 so is it now a matter of patience waiting for less bounces so that over time the numbers settle lower with less bouncing?
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Yes, Voula, you are correct. The low numbers caused her liver to react an release the counterregulatory hormones and glucagon and start the bounce. Bounces can take up to six cycles to clear so you have to be patient with the numbers until it clears, numbers start down, and we see if she comes back to green.

You did a great job and had a super late night team working with you!
 
great job last night!

purrdydolly said:
you have seen today that it doesn't take a low starting number to get to low numbers and that you can manage the low numbers. You've also seen when you have shot at lower numbers that it doesn't necessarily mean that Lucy's going to go even lower.
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So true, Serryn! This is one of those things that is counter-intuitive, but true. Once you grasp that Lantus works best at lower numbers, and you've seen that it can hold a cat flat when the cat starts below 100, it's just amazing.

While we all start out thinking that shooting a cat with higher numbers is safer, at some point it's one of those light bulb moments when you realize that a cat starting at a higher BG actually has farther to fall and is less predictable than shooting a cat at lower numbers. In some ways, shooting a cat at lower numbers is more predictable and even, to some extent, safer, than shooting a cat with high BGs.

It definitely helps to have people with experience helping point out these kinds of things, because otherwise it would be so much harder to understand.

You're on the right track now, Voula! :D

by the way, when you have a bounce cycle, like you're having now, we joke that these are "save-a-strip" days. Don't worry about over-testing at this point. I'd get one mid-cycle and the next preshot, then repeat in the next cycle until you start getting tests (like yellow numbers) that tell you that she's clearing the bounce.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
great job last night!


So true, Serryn! This is one of those things that is counter-intuitive, but true. Once you grasp that Lantus works best at lower numbers, and you've seen that it can hold a cat flat when the cat starts below 100, it's just amazing.

While we all start out thinking that shooting a cat with higher numbers is safer, at some point it's one of those light bulb moments when you realize that a cat starting at a higher BG actually has farther to fall and is less predictable than shooting a cat at lower numbers. In some ways, shooting a cat at lower numbers is more predictable and even, to some extent, safer, than shooting a cat with high BGs.

It definitely helps to have people with experience helping point out these kinds of things, because otherwise it would be so much harder to understand.

You're on the right track now, Voula! :D

by the way, when you have a bounce cycle, like you're having now, we joke that these are "save-a-strip" days. Don't worry about over-testing at this point. I'd get one mid-cycle and the next preshot, then repeat in the next cycle until you start getting tests (like yellow numbers) that tell you that she's clearing the bounce.
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Thank you Julie and yes I am not doing as many tests at the moment. Lucy starts to get a little stressed when I test her glucose more than four times a day so it is a bit of a break for both of us at the moment. I am testing pre-dose and once in each cycle while the readings are high. Yes it definitely helps to have experienced people helping out and it was great yesterday to have all that support and assistance.
 
Chris & China said:
The simple answer is "Yes"....as Lucy spends more time in those lower numbers, her body re-learns that it's OK to be there and doesn't react by bouncing so high and will clear the bounces quicker

Give it some time. I know it's frustrating for you but Lucy's still fairly new to the sugardance...It was 9 months before China started to make some sense in her numbers
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Thank you Chris. Yes it is a bit frustrating but we are on the right track now with getting the diagnosis and starting treatment too.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Yes, Voula, you are correct. The low numbers caused her liver to react an release the counterregulatory hormones and glucagon and start the bounce. Bounces can take up to six cycles to clear so you have to be patient with the numbers until it clears, numbers start down, and we see if she comes back to green.

You did a great job and had a super late night team working with you!
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Thank you and yes it sure was a good team supporting us yesterday and I learnt a lot from them too.
 
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