Silver - OTJ but still having problems

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KittyMom777

KittyMom777

Member Since 2014
Hi, Silver has been OTJ for two weeks but I am still having problems with him urinating and pooing outside the box. For several days he will use the box without any issue, then I wake up and find he has pooed on the floor. Why one day and not the next? Today he peed twice and pooed on the floor. It is getting very draining cleaning up and not knowing why he is doing this. Thankfully he does use the puppy pads but in an effort to bury his business, he rips up the pad, destroying it and therefore I still have to scrub the floor.

I have tried all the suggestions given to me when I posted about this before - people thought he couldnt get into the box because of his neuropathy - which by the way - I am seeing vast improvement. But he obviously can get in as he uses it. Then others said the box may need cleaning - I clean it daily. I am at a loss to know what to do. The litter hasnt been changed. I think he just thinks the floor is an option as well as the box. Help anyone. Before I go insane!
 
I haven't used it but have heard some have success with a product called "litter attract." Or maybe the word is attractant. In any case I've seen it at pet stores. Might be worth a try.

Any chance he doesn't use the box if he's constipated? Hehe on "my cat from Hell" on Animal Planet Jackson Galaxy had a cat that didn't use the.box consistently because it had been declawed and the litter hurt her feet. Jackson touched her feet and it obviously hurt her. Not sure if the litter could be an issue but it's a thing to try if the attractant doesn't help.
 
How many litter boxes do you have? Vets will tell you 1 litter box per cat plus one, and at least one on every floor of your house.

We had this problem with Cobb. It took a complete cleaning of the floor and wall around the litter box, I mean a scrub down, to get the smell out.

We currently have two litter boxes sitting side by side. He pees in one and poops in the other. They are both upstairs because we have no place downstairs for a litter box.

Once we put the extra box out and got him feeling better, the inappropriate elimination stopped.
 
Are they actual puppy pads? I'm not sure it makes a difference to cats, but some puppy pads contain something to attract the puppy to use the pad. I use the human ones (the pads made to fit on the bed under a patient).

Unfortunately my two cats who have gotten used to pee pads have never transitioned back to the litter box fully. I hope someone else has better news to share. Both of them had other health issues, including chronic diarrhea, so I don't know if the problem was just that they preferred the pad or that they had some sort of negative association with the litter box. For Jazzy, I ended up putting a couple of layers of pee pads in a litter box (with no litter) and she would use that. KK did the same thing you're describing, tearing up the pad and still getting stuff onto the floor.

You could try a softer litter. I've been using Arm & Hammer Clump and Seal and they seem to like it. The recycled paper ones are a bit softer too. Maybe the litter hurts his feet somehow. He isn't declawed, by chance, is he? Jazzy was, and shortly after she developed her litter box aversion my vet noticed that she had a partial deformed claw trying to grow back in.
 
Hi Julie - I have four boxes for my two cats. Its not that he doesnt use the litter box at all which is why I dont think changing the litter will make a difference as he DOES use it. For a few days anyways. Then a few days on the floor. I'd prefer not to change the litter as my other cat will object. I live in a one bedroom basement apartment so all the boxes are in my living room. The bedroom is micro and not enough room in there. He pees right BESIDE the box so he goes to the right place.
 
Libby and Lucy said:
Are they actual puppy pads? I'm not sure it makes a difference to cats, but some puppy pads contain something to attract the puppy to use the pad. I use the human ones (the pads made to fit on the bed under a patient).

Unfortunately my two cats who have gotten used to pee pads have never transitioned back to the litter box fully. I hope someone else has better news to share. Both of them had other health issues, including chronic diarrhea, so I don't know if the problem was just that they preferred the pad or that they had some sort of negative association with the litter box. For Jazzy, I ended up putting a couple of layers of pee pads in a litter box (with no litter) and she would use that. KK did the same thing you're describing, tearing up the pad and still getting stuff onto the floor.

You could try a softer litter. I've been using Arm & Hammer Clump and Seal and they seem to like it. The recycled paper ones are a bit softer too. Maybe the litter hurts his feet somehow. He isn't declawed, by chance, is he? Jazzy was, and shortly after she developed her litter box aversion my vet noticed that she had a partial deformed claw trying to grow back in.
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Not declawed. Yes, they are actual puppy pads and thank goodness he does use them. <Maybe I will have to get used to him just using the pads too. Its not huge to clean up - just annoying. What kind of pad do you use? I find that it does soak through sometimes.
 
I think the product Julie was referring to is Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract, and it's a litter additive, not a litter. It smells earthy, almost like catnip, so not that gross cloying smell they put in scented litters. When we had a problem several months ago with Henry using the dog's bed as a litter box (which at the time I suspected was because he hates the dog, but since his Dx now I wonder :p) it worked like a charm.
 
Hi Juliet,

We foster cats for a rescue organization and provide litter box issue "trouble-shooting" tips for adopters. Many potential ones have already been addressed by others, but a couple others I'll toss out that we commonly see...
1) Hooded litter boxes, particularly in multi-cat homes. Some cats feel like they're going to get ambushed coming out of a hooded box and develop an aversion. Other kitties object to the hood which traps objectionable smells inside the box (a porta-potty comes to mind). Way back in the day when we only had one cat, he started peeing on paper bags/newspapers that were next to his hooded box. Hood off solved the problem.
2) Box is located near an appliance or air vent that makes sudden scary noises that startles kitty and an aversion starts. Washing machines/dryers are common culprits, as they turn on or beep, scaring kitty while they're doing their business. Heat or air vents located near a box can blast a cat with an unpleasant shot of air and startle them.
3) Depth of litter. Some cats object to litter that is too deep in the box and prefer to have shallower litter so they can dig all the way down to the bottom of the box.
4) Privacy. One of my civilians needs to have his box in a corner, so it's protected on two sides so he feels secure. High traffic area? Is kitty shy about peeing or pooing in an area that is heavily trafficked?

Hugs! Elimination problems are so frustrating.

Congratulations on OTJ and Silver's wonderful numbers!
 
Thanks Jen.....I removed the hood a few weeks back after someone suggested that. The air vents are in the ceiling. I am thinking of switching to a softer litter - currently I use pine pellets as when wet, the pellets turn to sawdust and its still clean. I dont really like clumping litter as I blocked my toilet once flushing them. What does everyone else do that uses clumping litter? Flush? Throw in garbage? I am so conscious of smell as living in a small space and especially when renting so the peeing outside box is a huge issue as its very smelly!! I live alone so no traffic except my other kitty! He NEVER uses the box in front of me so I always either wake up to the mess or come home to it after work. He tends to only pee twice a day now which is better than the several times a day I was used to before.
 
You really can't flush clumping litter. It will clog the plumbing just like you found.

I came across puppy poo bags that are infused with Nature's Miracle. I scoop into a bag at least once a day and dump the bags in the trash.

You may want to try some of the cleanser's like Nature's Miracle on the area where Silver has peed. I think Libby also knows of a brand of cleaner that is very good for getting rid of the smell. If there's any residual smell, it may keep Silver going back to the spot to pee.

Is there any chance your other kitty has cornered Silver in the box? That can also cause a cat to avoid the litter box.
 
We use the new Arm and Hammer Clump and Seal.

It works well at keeping the smell down. We put it in plastic grocery bags and take it out daily. BUT...we have left it upstairs on occasion and it doesn't smell for a few days.

We also had a Litter Genie (it's basically a diaper genie for cats, lol), but we were going through a lot of the bags when Cobb wasn't doing as well. We may go back to it now.
 
I'm embarrassed to admit that I use The World's Best Cat litter. It's expensive but I'm hooked on it for my cats. There is zero smell, it's flushable (boxes next to toilets and I scoop every time I go in), it's light to scoop compared to heavy clay litter. I used wood stove pellets forever, but as punkin got older the vet thought the pellets might hurt his feet so I switched. Feline Pine is just smaller wood stove pellets. Punkin had the beginning of kidney issues so his pee clumps were huge and the clay was really heavy and gross to scoop. The WBCL is really light when wet, still clumps and is made from corn byproducts so environmentally better than mining clay.

You can get it at pet stores. The company has coupons all the time and when you buy 10 bags you get the next one free.
 
I'm not at all embarrassed! I use The World's Best Litter and--although more expensive than other brands-- it is absolutely the best litter I have ever used: no urine smell ever; no annoying perfumes in the litter; easy to scoop; soft on the kitty's feet; very long-lasting (I only have to change it once a month, but we only have 1 cat). It is supposedly flushable. However, because we don't want to take any chances with our septic system, we don't flush it: we use those doggy bags that Sienne mentioned to collect the pee balls and dispose of them in the trash daily (we flush the solid contributions down the toilet). Our village has free doggy bag dispensers in areas where people walk their dogs and I replenish our supply when it gets low.
We first heard about World's Best when our previous diabetic kitty, Stu, was scheduled to have the radio-iodine treatment (I-131) for HyperT. It is a requirement that soiled litter, because of radioactive contamination, be flushed for 6 months after the treatment, and not discarded in landfills. (If people have a closed, private septic system, they have to collect the used litter for at least 6 months before disposing of it in a landfill.) This is probably more than you want to know!:stop:

Ella & Rusty
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
You really can't flush clumping litter. It will clog the plumbing just like you found.

I came across puppy poo bags that are infused with Nature's Miracle. I scoop into a bag at least once a day and dump the bags in the trash.

You may want to try some of the cleanser's like Nature's Miracle on the area where Silver has peed. I think Libby also knows of a brand of cleaner that is very good for getting rid of the smell. If there's any residual smell, it may keep Silver going back to the spot to pee.

Is there any chance your other kitty has cornered Silver in the box? That can also cause a cat to avoid the litter box.
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I find bicarbonate of soda is the best for removing odors. It works.

Actually Silver is the one who is the bully in this household and he attacks my timid female calico. She would never corner him.
Where do you get this "Worlds Best Litter" - I need a smell free litter as small apartment. I live in Canada.
Problem I have with putting it in the trash - my landlord shares same trash and I dont want to stink out his garage.

Am guessing I am stuck with him using the puppy pads as its not the litter. If it was - he would avoid it totally. As it is, we have several good days followed by a few bad on the trot. The good days make me feel we have conquered this...then the bad days come right after.
 
We also use World's Best; flush the solids and we have a "litter locker". I quit buying the expensive plastic bags and we put the grocery plastic bags in it for clumped urine. Then we take it out every other day. With two cats, it doesn't get full fast and the litter locker traps any odors (which there really aren't any).

My stepdaughter also had problems with a cat who wouldn't use the box. She got the Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract (already mentioned) and that was the end of the LB issues. Good luck, Juliet!!
 
Can someone post a source for both Cat Attract and the Worlds Best?

Lol - here in Canada we have to pay for our grocery bags too.

EDIT - found both. Okay will get some of this Cat Attract tomorrow and update. The Worlds Best is a bit on the pricey side.

Thanks for all the tips.....I hope my wee boy sorts himself out.
 
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Juliet - I used to use World's Best litter, then Neko decided she liked to snack on the corn. :rolleyes: So now I use the Blue Buffalo walnut shell based product. I find it's almost exactly the same as World's Best, just darker and less tasty. You can get both those products at PetSmart and I've seen World's Best at a lot of the pet supply stores around me. Check any chain pet store near you. Not sure what pet store chains you've got in Ontario.

I have a container with a lid that I was once given to store dry food (but didn't), and I now put a bag inside it and keep the litter in there until it's trash time. But I like the idea of the poo bags Sienne mentioned, I'll have to see if I can get some.

Good luck solving this problem - how frustrating!
 
Thanks Wendy. I just looked up PetSmart and they stock Cat Attract so I am going to give this a try. Re the poop - I just scoop it in a poop scooper and flush it down the toilet. I dont think that would be a good idea for clumping litter tho. When I lived in the UK I used to buy what we call there "nappy sacks" - diaper sacks I guess here. They are perfumed so great for sticking in the garbage without stinking it out.
 
the pads I use are for humans - they are in the section with adult diapers but these are underpads, meant to be put on the bed under a person who is incontinent. Most pharmacies and grocery stores seem to have them. The ones I have right now are huge (30x36") and marked as Maximum Absorbency. They came from CVS. These seem to be stronger than most. I have also thought the Wal-Mart ones were good and a little smaller.

I think the cat litter debate is another ECID thing. Not long ago, I set up 3 big litter boxes, one with Cat Attract, one with Dr. Elsey's Touch of Outdoors Litter, and one with Arm & Hammer Clump and Seal. All three of my cats started using the Arm & Hammer box, ignoring the others. My mom did the exact same experiment with her 3 cats, and they all started using the Touch of Outdoors. Go figure!
 
Squeaky and KT said:
One of mine does this sometimes but I've watched him, I think he really thinks he's IN the box instead of beside it. Mine's an elderly cat...
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When I actually catch him about to pee on the floor - I say "no" in a stern voice and he immediately gets up and goes in the tray. He's a little brat who knows better. But mostly he pees when I am in bed or at work so rarely catch him in the act. My girl, Sasha is a pee-over-the-edge cat so I got high sided boxes for her. Now I have to remove the lids to ensure he will get in. So she is back to peeing outside..She climbs in frontways, doesnt turn around and her butt hangs over the edge. My two are sooooo frustrating!
 
Is this the right stuff you guys are talking about?
 

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We used Cat Attract litter when we had Duncan our litterbox problem boy, and it helped for a long time. Unfortunately, when I had cancer Duncan was very traumatized. I vanished suddenly for over a week, Daddy was super stressed, and lots of strange people were in and out of the house. His peeing next to the box came back, and ultimately, we had to put him on Prozac, which pretty much fixed the problem. It sounds awful to put a cat on and antidepressant, but not only did it fix his litterbox issues, but it put him back to being himself. He had been depressed and hiding, and this put an end to that. Normally, cats can go off Prozac after several weeks, but Duncan was never able to come off of it. We always said he had kitty PTSD. I don't know how much trauma Silver has felt from his diagnosis and treatment, but if the Cat Attract litter doesn't do the job, it's something to consider.
 
Marycatmom said:
We used Cat Attract litter when we had Duncan our litterbox problem boy, and it helped for a long time. Unfortunately, when I had cancer Duncan was very traumatized. I vanished suddenly for over a week, Daddy was super stressed, and lots of strange people were in and out of the house. His peeing next to the box came back, and ultimately, we had to put him on Prozac, which pretty much fixed the problem. It sounds awful to put a cat on and antidepressant, but not only did it fix his litterbox issues, but it put him back to being himself. He had been depressed and hiding, and this put an end to that. Normally, cats can go off Prozac after several weeks, but Duncan was never able to come off of it. We always said he had kitty PTSD. I don't know how much trauma Silver has felt from his diagnosis and treatment, but if the Cat Attract litter doesn't do the job, it's something to consider.
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I dont think he's traumatised.....he's a boy that you can do anything to - and he still comes for cuddles every morning. I never thought anti-depressants would work on a cat. Learn something new every day!
 
KittyMom777 said:
I dont think he's traumatised.....he's a boy that you can do anything to - and he still comes for cuddles every morning. I never thought anti-depressants would work on a cat. Learn something new every day!
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yes Juliet they def. work for cats
 
KittyMom777 said:
Is this the right stuff you guys are talking about?
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That is the actual litter, not the additive. Below is the product I use. Julie had the name right: it is Litter Attractant. Sorry for the confusion! Both the Cat Attract litter and the Litter Attractant are Dr. Elsey's Precious Cat products so I mixed them up. I think either one is worth a shot.

pc_litter_attract.jpg

FWIW, I use the Precious Cat clumping litter and it is the best clay litter I have ever used as far as dust goes. I also use the Litter Genie and love it for odor control.
 
Certain antidepressants are effective for inappropriate elimination but that's a discussion with your vet.

I realize you're using bicarb to clean. I'd also suggest trying one of the enzymatic cleaners that are designed to address pet odors. Keep in mind that your cat's nose is a good deal more sensitive than yours. It doesn't take much of an odor to attract a cat to the same spot to pee -- it's a means of marking territory and cat's are hugely territorial.
 
I posted this in the thread on the Main Health forum but thought I'd also repost it here.

First, cat urine contains uric acid so using normal cleaners will not work on removing the uric acid; you need an enzyme cleaner for it to truly remove all scent and keep the cat from returning back to the scene of his crime. The one that has worked best for us every time Mikey found a new place to pee is the fizzion tablets (I buy them off amazon).

Next, trial and error. I tried different litter boxes with different sizes, heights, and widths. Different litters (always keeping one box with the original litter in case they don't like the new stuff), cat attract in the litter, etc.... Some of the stuff worked for a time, others were outright failures from the get-go.

At one point, I was literally following Mikey around all day and setting alarms to wake me up at night so I could make sure his litter box was clean after every use. That worked, but it was not feasible long-term.

The one that finally fixed the issue for us was the Breeze System. It's like re-usable puppy pads under a layer of litter. As long as they don't go poo in the litter box, Mikey will continue using it.
 
Kay, you need to read the whole thread before posting. The discussion about cleaners has already been made and a decision was made on what I was going to do. No further posts required.
 
Well after blaming Silver I discoveted today that it's my OTHER civvie cat who is peeling in the floor. And it's coz she stands up to pee. I am using both Litter Attract and Cat Attract. She gets in and pees standing up so most of it is on the puppy pad and in today's instance - down the wall!!! I have a high sided pan so have no idea why she doesn't just sit down in it. Now I am stumped.
 
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You might be able to rig some baking sheets, or pieces of polycarbonate (check Home Depot - they may cut to spec), to stand inside the pan and extend the sides up further.
 
I had a vet suggest to me once - Cobb used to spray the wall as well - to get one of those deep Sterilite containers and then on one side cut an entrance. That way you have 3 tall sides to the box. She said it also provided more privacy for picky cats.
 
I might try that but two issues - Sasha gets in but does not turn around so any pee would still be up the wall or on the carpet through the opening. I also don't want it too high as Silver's legs still not too strong yet. I put the cover back on it and he got in ok so now to train my girl to sit!
 
KittyMom777 said:
Well after blaming Silver I discoveted today that it's my OTHER civvie cat who is peeling in the floor. And it's coz she stands up to pee. I am using both Litter Attract and Cat Attract. She gets in and pees standing up so most of it is on the puppy pad and in today's instance - down the wall!!! I have a high sided pan so have no idea why she doesn't just sit down in it. Now I am stumped.
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Sometimes they will stand to pee if they are arthritic - just something to consider, especially if this is a new behavior.
 
She's very young for that. She's always done it. Knowing the reason for it doesn't really provide a solution. Thanks tho.
 
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